Mario's Tier Should Actually Be "Varies"

[Flashlight237]

I mean let's be real. While the wiki lists Mario as a Tier 4C character, a lot of the times Mario and his friends aren't anywhere near 4C. In fact, if Super Sonic got the "Varies" label, why shouldn't Mario and his friends? From what I can tell, it varies largely by game.

For example, literally the strongest Mario has been that isn't anything from his paper counterpart was in Super Mario Galaxy when Mario survived a black hole caused by the aftermath of the destruction of Bowser's Galactic Reactor.

On the other hand, Super Mario Bros, the game that started Mario's world, featured Mario at best breaking brick blocks, which were qualifiable for Tier 9-B (which is more of a baseline for Mario than anything).

In Super Mario World, Mario has been shown to stomp down, hammer down, and kick away castles. Oh, and he tanked a castle-destroying explosion at point-blank.

In Super Mario Odyssey, Mario fell from the rooftop of New Donk City's tallest building after being knocked off by Mecha-Wiggler and landed on his feet. He clearly shuddered upon landing, which is a clear sign of damage (stunning).

Even with everything from each of the Mario games, regardless of what happened in the main games themselves, the sports spinoffs greatly reduce everyone's strength to more humanlike terms (both in the cutscenes and in in-game mechanics), in fact the only thing inhuman I've seen in the sports games are the superpower-focused shots and a glitch in Mario Superstar Baseball where a Star Shot can send a ball flying into orbit in Practice Mode. Maybe the defeat of Lucien in Mario Tennis Aces too, but I think the temple's destruction was a chain reaction. This... Is why nobody ever talks about the sports games in a Vs Debate environment.

Obviously death mechanics are excluded because that's probably the worst form game mechanics induced stupidity can take.

Bottom line is Mario can survive a black hole without any injuries in one game, yet can get stunned from 100+ meters of falling in another game. Shouldn't this qualify Mario as a "Varies (9B-4C)" character instead of simply a "Tier 4C" character? I mean even Yoshi (who is set as a base for all of the Mario characters) is affected by the greatly variable nature of the Mario universe.

 

[BigDawgs]

I actually agree with this, a character like Mario has way too many variables, unless VSB actually argues that a 9-B character like Goomba should be able to take on a High 4-C. Reminder there never was any "set" canon for any of the games unless it's something like the RPGs. They are all their own separate adventures with their own rules and whatnot so to speak. Only problem is that it might take forever to separate each depiction of Mario appropriately, not to mention all of his friends and allies as well.

 

[Ryukama]

In Super Mario Odyssey, Mario fell from the rooftop of New Donk City's tallest building after being knocked off by Mecha-Wiggler and landed on his feet. He clearly shuddered upon landing, which is a clear sign of damage (stunning).

He also explicitly needed Bowser in order to smash through those rocks and escape from the cavern. Odyssey Mario is pretty weak tbh.

 

[Flashlight237]

@BigDawgs Yeah, that's the big part. Mario has as many games as Mickey Mouse has in cartoons, so it's very hard to determine what all of Mario's variables are in each of his games.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Wait this isn't Fun and Games board?

 

[PaChi2]

You can argue different keys with different stats or different profiles for each incarnation, but currently mario is a composite, this means it gets the best of every Mario.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Not entirely, a 100% composite Mario is 2-B technically speaking but that is a massive outlier.

 

[Overlord775]

Super Sonic is put at varies because that's the nature of the super form, it's more effective the more evil the enemys is, or something.

Mario feeling a 100 meter fall is an inconsistency, in the same game he survived getting smashed by a giant dragon

and just because is a game he doesn't show a significant power feat in a game, it's doesn't mean he isn't 4-C in that game

 

[BigDawgs]

Super Sonic is put at varies because that's the nature of the super form, it's more effective the more evil the enemys is, or something.
Mario feeling a 100 meter fall is an inconsistency, in the same game he survived getting smashed by a giant dragon

and just because is a game he doesn't show a significant power feat in a game, it's doesn't mean he isn't 4-C in that game

The real point here is not about Mario's feats being an inconsistency within a game itself, but being an inconsistency with the series in general.

 

[AquaWaifu]

I agree with Mario being varies as his feats and durabiliy change DRASTICALLY between games

 

[Flashlight237]

Super Sonic is put at varies because that's the nature of the super form, it's more effective the more evil the enemys is, or something.
Mario feeling a 100 meter fall is an inconsistency, in the same game he survived getting smashed by a giant dragon

and just because is a game he doesn't show a significant power feat in a game, it's doesn't mean he isn't 4-C in that game

The real point here is not about Mario's feats being an inconsistency within a game itself, but being an inconsistency with the series in general.

Mind you, we're talking about the same series where Mario and Luigi got captured by an army of Hammer Bros and tied up with conventional rope (Super Princess Peach). Hammer Bros were, technically speaking, hardly more than upgraded Koopa Troopas (who are themselves 9-B), so it would be highly illogical for Hammer Bros to be 4-C just from, well, that.

Let's not forget to mention that Mario showed as much effort as a clean-and-jerk lift to lift and throw King Bob-Omb (who is the heaviest liftable thing in Super Mario 64 depending on who you ask).

If anything, Mario's power is more inconsistent than Super Sonic's power despite the latter having the "Varies" marker. Despite Mario being at his best in the Super Mario Galaxies (or at least the first game), Mario is more often than not put on a scale much less grand in his games (from breaking blocks to fighting and defeating building-sized monstrosities (ex. Mechalegs, Lord of Lightning, various Bowser size-changes, etc) head-on).

Granted there's also the 2-B estimate from Super Paper Mario with the pure hearts, but that should go to Paper Mario rather than regular ol' Mario as Mario himself never used the Pure Hearts.

 

[AquaWaifu]

@Flashlight237

Oh but Flashlight, Paper Mario IS Mario, they are one and the same...


Id like to argue that while Mario has shown quite high feats he has far more consistently shown feats far lower than the tier 2 and 4 stuff.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Mario and Paper Mario are the same, and we aren't going back to a variable tier. We already had a long discussion about this, and doing this to Mario will only lead to use doing to same thing to a lot of characters; especially all the Marvel and DC characters. Which would pretty much destroy the purpose of the wiki and make it impossible to create Vs debates involving any of these characters.

We go with the high end feats and every single low end feat should be treated as either PIS or limitations due to game mechanics. It doesn't matter how frequent all those low end feats are, do you really want Wall level Thanos, Wall level Boros, and Street level Superman? Heck no we're not doing all that.

 

[Antvasima]

Medeus is most likely correct. We would have Thor a "Variable between 9-B and High 1-B" rating, for example.

 

[Kiryu2012]

I personally highly disagree with Tier 4 Mario and think Tier 9 Mario is far more accurate, but that's just my thoughts.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think I should just go ahead and close the thread, this is just going to get rejected big time.