Maou Gakuin Discussion Thread

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

You're right. The counterforce prevents the destruction of the planet.

But Da Vinci's first statement is literally no Heroic Spirit can destroy the planet.

Second one being, even if they could counterforce will stop it.

Besides saying that won't negate the countless anti feats fate has.

That second one actively goes against the notion of the possibility happening, so it already means "x servant cannot do this while on earth because if they're summoned, it's likely governed by the counter force", not an argument that'd hold up

and even if a heroic spirit cannot destroy the planet, there's actively much better feats THAN just sticking to earth (where the counter force will stop it even if they tried anyway), so it's not something to try and tie down EVERY SINGLE SERVANT WITH.

Also, nasu statements aren't to be taken super literally because they've aged rather poorly. Pretty sure we all remembered Shiki not being able to kill servants but applying that to now is useless because -he can-. Even gets worse in void shiki's case because that statement makes no narrative sense nor sense in general.

Edit: No, I do not think every single servant can destroy the planet, I'm talking about very specific ones who CAN be threats to it despite C.F measures, and keeping them at all the same level as one another (servants) while also having active threats to the planet -as they actively are stronger than the last- makes zero sense.

 

[Robo432343]

Actually the last thread addressing the 8-D stuff was from Deag a staff member, and at least it seemed he was doing rather well in it until the thread just died because of some tier revisions from Ultima and that was postponed and forgotten

no it was this thread which got rejected

 

[Huesito88]

no it was this thread which got rejected

No it was not rejected, but it wasn't accepted either

"Perhaps it is best to reboot this topic in a new thread. Preferably, we can have a cleaner discussion on the MoonCell structure starting from the bottom 3-D locations and moving our way up one step at a time."

 

[Robo432343]

No it was not rejected, but it wasn't accepted either

"Perhaps it is best to reboot this topic in a new thread. Preferably, we can have a cleaner discussion on the MoonCell structure starting from the bottom 3-D locations and moving our way up one step at a time."

i went through all 6 pages of the thread and more staff disagreed with the thread than those who agreed
and if it was accepted then there would have been no 8-D stuff on the profiles but there was..

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

That second one actively goes against the notion of the possibility happening, so it already means "x servant cannot do this while on earth because if they're summoned, it's likely governed by the counter force", not an argument that'd hold up

and even if a heroic spirit cannot destroy the planet, there's actively much better feats THAN just sticking to earth (where the counter force will stop it even if they tried anyway), so it's not something to try and tie down EVERY SINGLE SERVANT WITH.

Also, nasu statements aren't to be taken super literally because they've aged rather poorly. Pretty sure we all remembered Shiki not being able to kill servants but applying that to now is useless because -he can-. Even gets worse in void shiki's case because that statement makes no narrative sense nor sense in general.

Edit: No, I do not think every single servant can destroy the planet, I'm talking about very specific ones who CAN be threats to it despite C.F measures, and keeping them at all the same level as one another (servants) while also having active threats to the planet -as they actively are stronger than the last- makes zero sense.

Also, it'd actively go against other things that (some) servants are capable of if it truly came down to it. Aka, it equals to - 'oh well, so much for textures being a thing', because involving those into the conversation depending on how some see them ends up getting extremely damn nuts.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Also, it'd actively go against other things that (some) servants are capable of if it truly came down to it. Aka, it equals to - 'oh well, so much for textures being a thing', because involving those into the conversation depending on how some see them ends up getting extremely damn nuts.

I can only hope the flames inside the fate scaling discord server for the eventually re-adding of the verse on this site aren't too high because OOOHHHH BOOYYYY....

 

[Huesito88]

i went through all 6 pages of the thread and more staff disagreed with the thread than those who agreed
and if it was accepted then there would have been no 8-D stuff on the profiles but there was..

Inconclusive doesn't mean rejected Robo, and it was continued and you also got your dates wrong this was the last thread on that

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

I can only hope the flames inside the fate scaling discord server for the eventually re-adding of the verse on this site aren't too high because OOOHHHH BOOYYYY....

I actually hope they can put other feats that aren't moon cell or avalon related too, lmao...

 

[Robo432343]

Inconclusive doesn't mean rejected Robo, and it was continued and you also got your dates wrong this was the last thread on that

you just gave me another rejected thread
you're proving my point..

 

[Huesito88]

you just gave me another rejected thread
you're proving my point..

It's not rejected it was closed for other reasons...

 

[DemonKing021]

and even if a heroic spirit cannot destroy the planet, there's actively much better feats THAN just sticking to earth (where the counter force will stop it even if they tried anyway), so it's not something to try and tie down EVERY SINGLE SERVANT WITH.

May I ask what? Because even the recent best feat i remember from FGO is ORT destroying the planet in the future.

No, I do not think every single servant can destroy the planet, I'm talking about very specific ones who CAN be threats to it despite C.F measures, and keeping them at all the same level as one another (servants) while also having active threats to the planet -as they actively are stronger than the last- makes zero sense.

Again can you give me some examples? Just to be clear, being threat to the texture (world ) isn't equal to being threat to the planet.

you just gave me another rejected thread
you're proving my point..

Doesn't matter, when Nasuverse is added again they have to make a thread to scale moon cell to 8d again.

I am just curious what they are gonna do about the anti feats.

Seriously though, even hardcore nasu fans who read the novels don't scale characters to that high.

 

[Robo432343]

It's not rejected it was closed for other reasons...

the purpose of that thread was to lower/remove the ratings
and that thread FAILED to do that
so yeah rejected

 

[Robo432343]

Doesn't matter, when Nasuverse is added again they have to make a thread to scale moon cell to 8d again.

I am just curious what they are gonna do about the anti feats.

Seriously though, even hardcore nasu fans who read the novels don't scale characters to that high.

lets hope it never gets added

 

[Huesito88]

the purpose of that thread was to lower/remove the ratings
and that thread FAILED to do that
so yeah rejected

It failed as it got closed for other reason, it wasn't rejected by staff votes.

 

[Robo432343]

It failed as it got closed for other reason, it wasn't rejected by staff votes.

it doesn't have to be rejected because of staff votes
a failed thread is a failed thread

 

[DemonKing021]

Why are you two debating over defination? It's a failed thread which wasn't rejected.

 

[Robo432343]

Why are you two debating over defination? It's a failed thread which wasn't rejected.

yes we can all agree its a failed thread

 

[Huesito88]

It's a failed thread which wasn't rejected.

Yeah I'd agree to that definition

 

[ElPapucho80]

I can't say I know a lot. There are a few works I still haven't read.

Spoiler: Yapping

Servants in my opinion should be around country to multicontinent levels depending on the work. Planet level is impossible for them because of Da Vinci's statement. As for speed Hypersonic-Lightning speed is more consistent thanks to Fate Strange Fake.

Come on people, people can't act like servants are multiversal while considering falling from a bike with 400km/h velocity fatal. But i accept powercreep is a thing but that doesn't suddenly make them multiversal.

For top tiers, Goetia's one of the light bands can pierce the planet (not destroy) and he has Billions of them. So planetary to star level is more consistent. It's also supported by Tamamo considering Goetia equal to Amatarasu who is a literal sun.

Surtr is surface wiper as that's what his Strongest attack does. It also stated to be equal to Rhongomaniad, so maybe planet level?

Morgan is comparatively weak (She died to her own fodder Soldiers). According to herself she's literally weaker than Melunise (the one who bragged about her supersonic speed). Although she has twelve Rhongos. So planetary.

God Arjuna is also relatively work for a guy who absorbed 33 million gods of India. His aim is bad, can't even shoot storm border. His AP is bad. His noble phantasm which resets the entirety of the Indian Lostbelt takes days to charge. It's practically useless in battle. Although he has a lot of hax like invincibility. I think he is multicontinental by feats. Maybe there are statements I don't know but his feats aren't that impressive.

10% Zeus' single thunderbolt is stated to surpass God Arjuna. Each of them can destroy the planet and he can spam them. Materials says his thunderbolts can destroy star systems. So he's Star level. His last attack was supposed to destroy the solar system.

Sefar is easily star level, almost won against Zeus but lost to megazord Zeus. She's also super effective against gods due to her absorbing authority. Sefar is weak against raw dakka though.

U-Olga/Alien God can create Black Holes which puts her Star level as well. Although Rhongo is noted to be strong enough to defeat her. The reason Rhongo doesn't scale to her is because making black hole is her own hax. So no reason for Rhongo which has different ability to scale to her.

Lostbelt ORT is the weaker version of the PHH ORT. It can destroy the planet and the only one who showed Planetary feat on screen. But then.. it also died from crashing to the planet.. which is somewhat embarrassing. It's pretty slow, servants can damage it, so not a good look. By scaling it scales over Zeus. One of the examples of hype not matching the feats.

Kiara is mostly reliant on hax but by size alone should be solar system level.

Same with BB. She has complete control over moon cell in CCC, so all of her abilities her hax.

Tiamat is a fodder. She is a good tank, has lot of immortalities but her best feat is a hydrogen bomb level screem. Anyone watching Babylonia can't seriously think she's multiversal or whatever.

Archetype Earth, easily planet level to start level by scaling.

Kama is a conceptual universe but she's not universal. She can be damaged and defeated by normal servants. By that logic Bomirus from misfit should be too thanks to his infinite sized dimension.

Mother Harlot is stronger than Goetia to an unknown degree.

Chaos is literally a Dyson sphere and should be stronger than Zeus. So multi-star level.

Speed is inconsistent. You have op characters like ORT, Melunise and Kukulan being supersonic to Romulus, Ares etc reacting to FTL attack. But then again, the so called light speed attack was from space, so it took some time to come to Earth. Dioscuri and Zeus are light speed and can go FTL. So LS-FTL is generally where I would put them.

Void Shiki is a fodder, has no feats and just statements, has several anti feats and author himself puts her below servants. She's equivalent of me saying "I am omnipotent but I won't do anything because I am lazy. Because I never try, you can't prove me wrong. Since you can't prove me wrong, I am omnipotent."

Thanks for the yapping. Any other verse You think is overrated?

 

[Glis]

Speaking of speed, Anos was already easily beyond the speed of light(x44) way back in great spirit arc, if that changes anything.

 

[DemonKing021]

Speaking of speed, Anos was already easily beyond the speed of light(x44) way back in great spirit arc, if that changes anything.

Don't think it really matters. He can move through time with sheer speed in volume 10 and Noah is faster than a literal omnipresent being in volume 15.

Thanks for the yapping. Any other verse You think is overrated?

Can't say. I don't follow many verses.

Most verses which have statements without feats backing them up are overrated, especially less known ones. I mean people seriously argue Sukuna to be planetary with FTL reactions.

 

[Huesito88]

Outerversal feat!? fr?! fr?!

It'd be funny

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Speaking of speed, Anos was already easily beyond the speed of light(x44) way back in great spirit arc, if that changes anything.

His speed depends on his opponents. The speed of light is too easy for him, though sometimes he humors his opponents. If he gets serious and flies at full speed with force alone, the world would be destroyed. This is beyond the speed of Eques, where even immeasurable speed can't achieve something like that.

I forgot I needed to post some of the LN raws for Aeges spear in Official Translation thread to wank Immeasurable speed.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Most verses which have statements without feats backing them up are overrated, especially less known ones. I mean people seriously argue Sukuna to be planetary with FTL reactions.

My goat is Planetary with FTL speed
Stop downplaying dude

 

[Success0906]

His speed depends on his opponents. The speed of light is too easy for him, though sometimes he humors his opponents. If he gets serious and flies at full speed with force alone, the world would be destroyed. This is beyond the speed of Eques, where even immeasurable speed can't achieve something like that.

I forgot I needed to post some of the LN raws for Aeges spear in Official Translation thread to wank Immeasurable speed.

When are you even dropping the wank?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

When are you even dropping the wank?

Posted the raws in Translation thread. I'll upgrade the speed once the Translation gets done.

 

[Success0906]

Posted the raws in Translation thread. I'll upgrade the speed once the Translation gets done.

Look again, bozo.

 

[Success0906]

Posted the raws in Translation thread. I'll upgrade the speed once the Translation gets done.

Also, please don't post it on such bulk form. Nobody but a dedicated wanker like me will accept such obscene request.

 

[DemonKing021]

Also, please don't post it on such bulk form. Nobody but a dedicated wanker like me will accept such obscene request.

Thanks for your help. I have a question though. So what does "Aegis' spear have no range" mean? Does it literally have no range? Because one of the fan translation i read, it says "His spear had no interval".

Gemini after explaining some context says his spear hits without delay.

DeepL says "His dark magic spear has no time."

So does that line really associated with distance or time?

 

[Success0906]

Thanks for your help. I have a question though. So what does "Aegis' spear have no range" mean? Does it literally have no range? Because one of the fan translation i read, it says "His spear had no interval".

Gemini after explaining some context says his spear hits without delay.

DeepL says "His dark magic spear has no time."

So does that line really associated with distance or time?

It literally is just that—there is no concept of range for the spear. From what I have read, there is no interval —no, the very distance is being ignored between the spear and its target. You can think of it as Gojo's infinity but opposite.

Edit: it's also been way too long since I have read the LN and WN. Sorry, this is the most I can say about the spear.

 

[DemonKing021]

Posted the raws in Translation thread. I'll upgrade the speed once the Translation gets done.

Just notify us when after posting the thread.

It literally is just that—there is no concept of range for the spear. From what I have read, there is no interval —no, the very distance is being ignored between the spear and its target. You can think of it as Gojo's infinity but opposite.

Edit: it's also been way too long since I have read the LN and WN. Sorry, this is the most I can say about the spear.

They probably mean the same thing. If you can hit someone by ignoring distance, then you're crossing the distance in zero second.

 

[Success0906]

They probably mean the same thing. If you can hit someone by ignoring distance, then you're crossing the distance in zero second.

Yeah, that's about it.

 

[Tatsumi504]

His speed depends on his opponents. The speed of light is too easy for him, though sometimes he humors his opponents.

Thanks for reminding me. Gotta downgrade Sasha and Misha's speed in 3rd key. Note to everyone, whoever plans on making Grysilis profile shouldn't give that mf even SoL unless it's from Vol 8.

 

[Success0906]

Thanks for reminding me. Gotta downgrade Sasha and Misha's speed in 3rd key. Note to everyone, whoever plans on making Grysilis profile shouldn't give that mf even SoL unless it's from Vol 8.

Are you gonna argue for layers, too? What about wanking magic?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Also, please don't post it on such bulk form. Nobody but a dedicated wanker like me will accept such obscene request.

The problem was Jnovel used a different way of describing things so they messed up the whole function of the spear.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Thanks for reminding me. Gotta downgrade Sasha and Misha's speed in 3rd key. Note to everyone, whoever plans on making Grysilis profile shouldn't give that mf even SoL unless it's from Vol 8.

I was gonna downgrade most of the verse speed even if you didn't. Though after Volume 10 Translation completely comes out.

Btw Linka > Grysilis in speed?
Lmfao.
I think we should take a look at speed scaling.

 

[Success0906]

The problem was Jnovel used a different way of describing things so they messed up the whole function of the spear.

Do you have scans from a different website, then? I can always translate them since it also works as a practice for me.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Do you have scans from a different website, then? I can always translate them since it also works as a practice for me.

Here is the WN version of the raws. If you are interested. LN I have EPUB version.

魔王学院の不適合者　～史上最強の魔王の始祖、転生して子孫たちの学校へ通う～ - 絡繰神

男主人公 魔王 西洋 学園 中世 チート 魔法 主人公最強 コメディ要素 R15 残酷な描写あり

ncode.syosetu.com

 

[Success0906]

Here is the WN version of the raws. If you are interested. LN I have EPUB version.

魔王学院の不適合者　～史上最強の魔王の始祖、転生して子孫たちの学校へ通う～ - 絡繰神

男主人公 魔王 西洋 学園 中世 チート 魔法 主人公最強 コメディ要素 R15 残酷な描写あり

ncode.syosetu.com

Can you post the specific text here? I don't wanna read right now. I am actually playing Minecraft. Sorry, not in the mood to read.

 

[DemonKing021]

Can you post the specific text here? I don't wanna read right now. I am actually playing Minecraft. Sorry, not in the mood to read.

I am curious about the fate manipulation one.

If you have time you can try translating this one.

　呆然とエクエスは呟く。



「……なぜ……歩いている……？　＜世界のために運命はベルド・ラーゼ・フェンブ回るレム＞の只中を……」



「この＜魔王庭園＞でならば、この魔眼めを多少開けるのでな」



言いながら、まっすぐ奴へ歩いていく。

俺の左眼は、滅紫に染まっており、その深淵に闇十字が浮かんでいた。



＜混滅こんめつの魔眼＞である。

それが、＜世界のために運命はベルド・ラーゼ・フェンブ回るレム＞の秩序を滅ぼしていた。



「我が眼前では、すべてが滅ぶ。秩序も、理ことわりも、貴様もだ、エクエス」



「……そんな秩序は存在しない……」



歯車の魔眼を驚愕に染め、奴は混乱したように言葉をこぼす。



「……いかなる魔眼を使おうと、運命は定められた。汝がなにをする前に、＜世界のために運命はベルド・ラーゼ・フェンブ回るレム＞が発動し、＜魔王庭園＞は滅び去る……」



「その＜世界のために運命はベルド・ラーゼ・フェンブ回るレム＞の理を滅ぼしたと言っている」



「……滅ぼせるはずがない。遅い早いではなく、運命は先に決まっているのだ。たとえ創世より前の過去に遡って力を発揮しようと、＜運命の歯車＞はそれより先に＜魔王庭園＞を滅ぼす……」



「くはは。秩序を盲信するあまり、目の前で起きていることが信じられぬか？　その穴の空いた歯車の神眼めで、もっとよく深淵を覗け」



俺はピタリと足を止める。



「運命を定めたお前と、理を滅ぼした俺。二つの力は矛盾した。ゆえに俺が勝ったのだ」



軽く足を上げ、大地を踏みしめる。

その瞬間、地表に埋め込まれていた銅の歯車が皆一斉に砕け散った。



「矛盾とは混沌、すなわち俺の懐だ」



＜混滅こんめつの魔眼＞と滅ぼすべき理が矛盾したならば、俺が一方的に勝つ。



単純な話だ。

事象を一つに定めなければならない理に対して、それが起きなければよい＜混滅の魔眼＞の方が遙かに有利である。



その上矛盾は、＜混滅の魔眼＞の力に変わる。



再び俺が一歩を刻むと、時間の歯車を回転させ、エクエスが目の前に現れた。