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Maou Gakuin Discussion Thread

About Anos age....how old exactly he is? Cuz I’m pretty sure he’s not 2000 Years old.
I don't know if it is specified how many years old it is, including previous incarnations... It may be possible that he is millions of years old as old as the world of militia or only 2000+.
 
Hey, I wanna ask, in this CRT, is already agreed that destroying Root will give you Concept Manipulation Type 3.

But, why is that? Isn't destroying Root is just Concept EE? I thought Order was supposed to be Concept Type 3.
 
Yes, but as far as I understand it, the temporary death of nousgalia would have to affect the entire silver sea for it to be a Type 2 not a single world
 
Err, naousgalia case is not about the silver sea concept

It's very Different thing

Naousgalia is the lord god of militia world

If this ranted at type 2 , then silver sea would make it above baseline
 
Our problem in the previous crt is because the concept of higher/deeper layer on silver sea didn't affecting the shallow/lower one (you don't need to affecting the entire silver sea too)

And this case is about how nousgalia being Superior concept than her/his child who govern the reality
 
It could be an option, but it should be presented in a more persuasive way and with good scans to back it up.
 
But I still think it is type 2, because it is able to alter the concepts of a layer, but they will say no, because it does not affect the concepts of all layers, and for me the reason is because the affected concept of the shallow layer may be the same as in the deeper layer, but since all the concepts of the deeper layers are practically infinitely superior to the shallow layers affect a concept of a Shallow layer, will not affect that of a deeper layer, because of the big difference between the power of the concepts.
 
A great test too, would be for Anos to alter a deeper layer concept, and for shallows layers to be affected.
 
But I still think it is type 2, because it is able to alter the concepts of a layer, but they will say no, because it does not affect the concepts of all layers, and for me the reason is because the affected concept of the shallow layer may be the same as in the deeper layer, but since all the concepts of the deeper layers are practically infinitely superior to the shallow layers affect a concept of a Shallow layer, will not affect that of a deeper layer, because of the big difference between the power of the concepts.
Good thing that we can bring cm3 to cm2 revision again by nousgalia feats, then multiplied it above baseline with how silver sea works

And yeah, this nousgalia feats don't need to be affecting the whole layer, or world shallow than this
 
If whatever concept this Nousgalia embody is not influence by change in the the world or it end unlike type 3, govern the entire world through out all of it space and time and would take what ever concept or worlds that are connected to it down if it were destroyed than sure it might be type 2, the concept don't need to govern the entirety of this silver sea or an entire layer to be type 2, just need to meet the criteria for one which is what i listed above than it would be fine it, would be weak but still type 2 nonetheless.
 
If whatever concept this Nousgalia embody is not influence by change in the the world or it end unlike type 3, govern the entire world through out all of it space and time and would take what ever concept or worlds that are connected to it down if it were destroyed than sure it might be type 2, the concept don't need to govern the entirety of this silver sea or an entire layer to be type 2, just need to meet the criteria for one which is what i listed above than it would be fine it, would be weak but still type 2 nonetheless.
Yes, pretty sure same with what i thought

In this case we don't need to affecting multiple layer or etc, because it's different case with the previous crt
 
Exactly, Anos and Nousgalia's conceptual manipulation meets the required standards for type 2, it already affects a whole reality, if Anos gets CM2 it would have Type 2 and Type 3 at the same time... 99+ CM3 potency and normal CM2
 
Although it would be reasonable to leave only CM2.. CM2--->99+ Potency CM3
 
Exactly, Anos and Nousgalia's conceptual manipulation meets the required standards for type 2, it already affects a whole reality, if Anos gets CM2 it would have Type 2 and Type 3 at the same time... 99+ CM3 potency and normal CM2
I think it would be 99+ CM2 Because militia world is still considered as shallow world on the silver sea

And silver sea concept is infinitely greater than militia worlds

That's why i said that, if it's ranted at type 2,then the potency can be much higher with how silver sea works
 
I think it would be 99+ CM2 Because militia world is still considered as shallow world on the silver sea

And silver sea concept is infinitely greater than militia worlds

That's why i said that, if it's ranted at type 2,then the potency can be much higher with how silver sea works
If we only base it on the nousgalia feat for CM2 it would only be a normal CM2 since it would only affect 1 layer of the silver sea, but if we base it on the fact that Anos is able to affect the general concepts of all the layers of the silver sea then it would be 99+ CM2.
 
If we only base it on the nousgalia feat for CM2 it would only be a normal CM2 since it would only affect 1 layer of the silver sea, but if we base it on the fact that Anos is able to affect the general concepts of all the layers of the silver sea then it would be 99+ CM2.
Well every world on every layer has it's own lord gods, and it's has the same work with nousgalia also.....

Generally the order of the deeper layer should be stronger than lord gods order on shallow layer
Then yeah, this is the thing we must do if it's get accepted
 
Well every world on every layer has it's own lord gods, and it's has the same work with nousgalia also.....

Generally the order of the deeper layer should be stronger than lord gods order on shallow layer
Then yeah, this is the thing we must do if it's get accepted
You are right, well just wait for a CRT and more opinions...
 
If he only show it on a certain level then just leave it at that, better to have a baseline than to stretch it than deal with downgrade attempts over and over. And if this novel is still on going than we can wait for more feat and showing of affecting the silver sea in it entirety instead of jumping the gun and say the mc affect concept type 2 in the entirety of the silver sea.

I would also add that depending on how you word it people might think that you are arguing that he can destroy a single type 2 concept that rule over all of the silver sea, which is pretty broken considering this thing seem to have 99+ layer. Instead of type 2 concept of each of the layer like what being propose here, which is still broken but need stronger evidence than just "since he can affect the type 3 on all of it so he can do so with type 2".
 
If he only show it on a certain level then just leave it at that, better to have a baseline than to stretch it than deal with downgrade attempts over and over. And if this novel is still on going than we can wait for more feat and showing of affecting the silver sea in it entirety instead of jumping the gun and say the mc affect concept type 2 in the entirety of the silver sea.

I would also add that depending on how you word it people might think that you are arguing that he can destroy a single type 2 concept that rule over all of the silver sea, which is pretty broken considering this thing seem to have 99+ layer. Instead of type 2 concept of each of the layer like what being propose here, which is still broken but need stronger evidence than just "since he can affect the type 3 on all of it so he can do so with type 2".
One possibility would be that CM3, which currently manages anos, is recognized as CM2, and then there would be no problem, since it is CM2.. but not accepted.
 
If he only show it on a certain level then just leave it at that, better to have a baseline than to stretch it than deal with downgrade attempts over and over. And if this novel is still on going than we can wait for more feat and showing of affecting the silver sea in it entirety instead of jumping the gun and say the mc affect concept type 2 in the entirety of the silver sea.

I would also add that depending on how you word it people might think that you are arguing that he can destroy a single type 2 concept that rule over all of the silver sea, which is pretty broken considering this thing seem to have 99+ layer. Instead of type 2 concept of each of the layer like what being propose here, which is still broken but need stronger evidence than just "since he can affect the type 3 on all of it so he can do so with type 2".
Yes you are right

We don't need to hurry

But fast or not, we still need to discuss how potent the cm 2 are if it's getting accepted
 
One possibility would be that CM3, which currently manages anos, is recognized as CM2, and then there would be no problem, since it is CM2.. but not accepted.
Well we can wait other member opinion for how potent it is

But i think "above baseline cm2" is still work and ok
 
Best it would be is 1 layer, you need actual showing if you want it for the silver sea.

And Dereck what do you mean by concept that manage Anos? Can you give me more context on that?
 
Well we can wait other member opinion for how potent it is

But i think "above baseline cm2" is still work and ok
Exactly, but the first thing we must do is that it is accepted as CM2, it only remains to discuss it and reach a conclusion with more feats, scans and evidence.
 
Best it would be is 1 layer, you need actual showing if you want it for the silver sea.

And Dereck what do you mean by concept that manage Anos? Can you give me more context on that?
I misunderstood... I'm sorry, I meant CM3 which currently has Anos
 
Best it would be is 1 layer, you need actual showing if you want it for the silver sea.

And Dereck what do you mean by concept that manage Anos? Can you give me more context on that?
Yes ,although it's clearly that deeper layer being superior concept than nousgalia is the feats

But yeah, we need to make it cm2 first
 
Well even if he only get basline concept type 2, look on the bright side, the pesky acausality type 5 ain't gonna be bothering him anymore.
 
Some statements I found about Nousgalia and his order:

「世界には秩序が存在する」

厳かな声が教室中に響き渡る。

「この世界が、この世界であるがゆえの理だ。鳥がなぜ鳥で、魔族がなぜ魔族なのか。天からは恵みの雨が降り、大地を潤し、そして樹木を育てる。魔法陣を描き、魔法術式に魔力を込めれば、明かりが灯る。それらが自然律、魔法律と呼ばれるものであり、この世をこの世たらしめている秩序である」

[...]

「そして、その秩序を維持している存在、その秩序が具象化した存在こそが、上位秩序である神族、つまりは神だ」

[...]

「私は天父神ノウスガリア。神を生む秩序、神々の父である」

[...]

「蒙昧な君に知恵を授けよう。神の父たる私は、この世の秩序の父である。一時的にでも、私が滅べば、その間、世界を維持するための秩序が生まれない。私を滅ぼせば、世界が滅びる」

神も永遠ではない。
奴らは秩序に従い消え、そして新たに生み出される。

そしてそれらを生み出している神が、天父神ノウスガリアというわけか。

'There is order in the world.

A solemn voice echoed through the classroom.

'It is the reason why this world is this world. Why is a bird a bird, why is a demon a demon? The heavens send down rain to moisten the earth and nurture the trees. If you draw a magic circle and put magic power into the magic formula, the light will come on. These are what we call the laws of nature, the laws of magic, the order that makes this world what it is.

[...]

'And the beings who maintain that order, the embodiment of that order, are the higher order, the divine race, the gods.

[...]

'I am Nousgalia, the Heavenly Father God. I am the order that gives birth to the gods, the father of the gods.

[...]

'I will give you wisdom, you who are ignorant. I, the Father of God, am the father of the order of the world. If I perish, even temporarily, there will be no order to maintain the world during that time. If I perish, the world perishes.

God is not eternal.
They disappear and are reborn according to the order.

And the god who creates them is Nousgalia, the Heavenly Father God.

- WN Chapter 120

天父神を滅ぼせば、世界の秩序は乱れ、やがて滅び行く。

[...]

「エールドメードの体と根源に寄生したのは間違いだったな。その中にいれば、一割の根源でも生きることができる。天父神の根源が一割残っていれば、その秩序も完全には崩壊しない。貴様ら神は不滅の存在だ。本来なら、根源を再生することは容易いはずだが、理滅剣の前ではそうはいかぬ」

[...]

天父神は、神が生まれるという秩序を保つ。それならば、奴が有する秩序としても納得のいく話だ。

If the Heavenly Father God is destroyed, the order of the world will be disturbed and eventually destroyed.

[...]

'It was a mistake to become a parasite in the body and source of the Eldemade. If you stay in it, even ten percent of the source can live. As long as ten percent of the Heavenly Father God's source remain, the order will not be completely destroyed. You gods are immortal beings. Normally, it would be easy to regenerate the source, but that is not possible in front of the principle destroying sword.

[...]

The Heavenly Father God maintains the order of divine birth. If that's the case, then it makes sense for him to have his own order.

- WN Chapter 121

「だが、秩序を生む秩序、天父神ノウスガリアと言えど、魔王の敵としてはどうにも見劣りする。なぜなら、奴は暴虐の魔王を取るに足らぬ存在だと見くびっているからだ。敵を侮る相手が、戦いに勝てると思うか?」

'However, even the order that creates order, the Heavenly Father God Nousgalia, is inferior as an enemy of the Demon King. He is disappointed that he is insignificant to the Demon King of Tyranny. Do you think the opponent who despises the enemy can win the battle?

- WN Chapter 170

「君は私を滅ぼすことはできない……秩序を生む秩序。天父神を滅ぼせば、世界は崩壊の一途を辿るのみだ」

'You can't destroy me... the order that creates order. If you destroy the Heavenly Father God, the world will only collapse...

- WN Chapter 186

Order = laws and concepts.
It's once again stated that gods only maintain order, meaning a God's death =/= destruction of their order, but a God's death = order not being maintained, which would disturb the order (remove the order from the natural cycle of the world).
It also seems like all Gods embody their order, and not just Guardian Gods.
It's also stated that all Gods are immortal and capable of regenerating their sources.

My understanding of Nousgalia's order is that it creates new gods and order while also maintaining all other order in the world. If he's killed, he would be unable to maintain his order, resulting in all other order in the world being disturbed and destroyed, as well as the world itself also being destroyed.
This also means that if his order is destroyed, all other order in the world would be destroyed.
In a way, you could say that all other order in the world is dependant on Nousgalia's order, while Nousgalia's order is independent of all other order in the world.

I'm still unsure if this actually qualifies for concept manip type 2 tho.

If it does qualify for cm2, only Anos and Venuzdonoa would gain cm2, since they are capable of destroying order. Anos' cm2 would still be 100 * uncountable above baseline, since 'Nousgalia's order' (the Order of Order) must also exist in every other world on all layers.
 
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What thread was it that got Type 2 from this, because being a Concept that created the Concepts that govern Reality has been rejected as Type 2 for several verses in the past?
 
What thread was it that got Type 2 from this, because being a Concept that created the Concepts that govern Reality has been rejected as Type 2 for several verses in the past?
Idk? I was asked to help out with this, so I did.

Also, in this specific case, the concept doesn't just create concepts that govern reality, but also maintains their existence in said reality.
 
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What thread was it that got Type 2 from this, because being a Concept that created the Concepts that govern Reality has been rejected as Type 2 for several verses in the past?
Well you can read the other supporting stuff and not focusing on the "concept creating concept"


Anyway I got idea from this Thread and want to test it myself
 
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