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Maou Gakuin Discussion Thread

Ian2296 said:
If the silver sea ship had a profile, would the speed be MFTL+ since it travels through universes in a few hours? Not to mention the universe was supposed to be endless, so i think if we use the baseline observable universe and take "few hours" as like 12 hours, it should be MFTL+
Click to expand...
If the universe is endless then it's infinite speed.
 
Well the world was stated to be almost Infinite tho, with the space stretching endlessly.

"The farther away you go from this earth, the larger the black sky is stretched and the closer you get to nothingness. It is here, in this almost infinite sky, where the Divine Realm is located."

"Blue Sky of the Gods" is added in the black sky.

"This black sky, which stretches endlessly, has no end."

"What if we fly faster than the speed at which the black sky can be stretched?"

"When you fly up to the sky, you come out from under the depths of the earth."
Click to expand...
It is also said that you can travel faster than the speed that the space are stretching.

Also, I thought you had to travel real Infinite space with finite amount of time to get Infinite speed, not just endless space. But, maybe could be wrong
 
Dereck03 said:
How would we classify Graham's NEP when the changes are applied to the NEP page?
Click to expand...
Nature Type 2.
Aspect Types 1, 2, 3.

Delta333 said:
Tho from what I understand Graham and Anos will still be affected by CM type 1 cuz they only lack concept type 2.
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This makes no sense IMO.

We know that the source (type 2 concept) is the most fundamental aspect of a living thing in MGnF, and it has never been even slightly implied that there exists a more fundamental aspect of a living thing in MGnF, meaning we can't assume that living things in MGnF have a type 1 concept.

Therefore, to say that nonexistent Graham, i.e. Graham after his most fundamental aspect of existence (his source) is destroyed and he becomes nothingness, can be affected by cm1 because only his type 2 concept is nonexistent is literally equivalent to saying cm1 can affect a MGnF character's source after it was already destroyed without any feats of affecting nonexistent things, which is simply wrong.

I'm not saying MGnF characters suddenly have cm1 resistance or something. I'm saying they only have a type 2 concept and completely lack other types of concepts, meaning even if a character has cm1, it would only relate to potency (cm2 resistance can't resist cm1, even if cm1 is only affecting a type 2 concept), and they can still only affect MGnF characters' sources (type 2 concepts). If their sources are nonexistent, then there's literally nothing to affect.
Therefore, IMO cm1 can't affect nonexistent Graham without feats of affecting nonexistent things.

However, if the wiki assumes that all things have a type 1 concept or something despite it contradicting the actual story, then I guess nonexistent Graham can indeed be affected by cm1, tho I disagree with the previously mentioned assumption.
 
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imZer0Null said:
This makes no sense IMO.

We know that the source (type 2 concept) is the most fundamental aspect of a living thing in MGnF, and it has never been even slightly implied that there exists a more fundamental aspect of a living thing in MGnF, meaning we can't assume that living things in MGnF have a type 1 concept.

Therefore, to say that nonexistent Graham, i.e. Graham after his most fundamental aspect of existence (his source) is destroyed and he becomes nothingness, can be affected by cm1 because only his type 2 concept is nonexistent is literally equivalent to saying cm1 can affect a MGnF character's source after it was already destroyed without any feats of affecting nonexistent things, which is simply wrong.

I'm not saying MGnF characters suddenly have cm1 resistance or something. I'm saying they only have a type 2 concept and completely lack other types of concepts, meaning even if a character has cm1, it would only relate to potency (cm2 resistance can't resist cm1, even if cm1 is only affecting a type 2 concept), and they can still only affect MGnF characters' sources (type 2 concepts). If their sources are nonexistent, then there's literally nothing to affect.
Therefore, IMO cm1 can't affect nonexistent Graham without feats of affecting nonexistent things.

However, if the wiki assumes that all things have a type 1 concept or something despite it contradicting the actual story, then I guess nonexistent Graham can indeed be affected by cm1, tho I disagree with the previously mentioned assumption.
Click to expand...
You can go to that thread and argue with DT since the thread still opens
 
imZer0Null said:
Nature Type 2.
Aspect Types 1, 2, 3.


This makes no sense IMO.

We know that the source (type 2 concept) is the most fundamental aspect of a living thing in MGnF, and it has never been even slightly implied that there exists a more fundamental aspect of a living thing in MGnF, meaning we can't assume that living things in MGnF have a type 1 concept.

Therefore, to say that nonexistent Graham, i.e. Graham after his most fundamental aspect of existence (his source) is destroyed and he becomes nothingness, can be affected by cm1 because only his type 2 concept is nonexistent is literally equivalent to saying cm1 can affect a MGnF character's source after it was already destroyed without any feats of affecting nonexistent things, which is simply wrong.

I'm not saying MGnF characters suddenly have cm1 resistance or something. I'm saying they only have a type 2 concept and completely lack other types of concepts, meaning even if a character has cm1, it would only relate to potency (cm2 resistance can't resist cm1, even if cm1 is only affecting a type 2 concept), and they can still only affect MGnF characters' sources (type 2 concepts). If their sources are nonexistent, then there's literally nothing to affect.
Therefore, IMO cm1 can't affect nonexistent Graham without feats of affecting nonexistent things.

However, if the wiki assumes that all things have a type 1 concept or something despite it contradicting the actual story, then I guess nonexistent Graham can indeed be affected by cm1, tho I disagree with the previously mentioned assumption.
Click to expand...
I think this could be discussed when CRT is done to change the nature of Graham and Anos' NEP, and I also share the same opinion as Null, that Cm1 should not be able to affect Nonexistence without feats of being able to affect it
 
Null's comment is getting ignored by DT... He already answer everyone except Null's one

mashiro-shiina-sigh.gif
 
Just made a short summary on my understanding of Silver sea. Not saying it's correct but take a look at it tell me your opinions. Also ignore grammar mistakes English ain't my language.

It's stated as a world born in zero layer and continues to evolve and life can only exist inside a bubble. It's clearly mentioned that life can't exist inside the Silver sea. Silver sea is not a higher dimension. It's just a water-like thing. Concept of dimensions, worlds or realms exists inside the bubble.

Each world just evolves dimensionally and moves on from one layer to another. It's even backed up by novels that when bubbles evolve they sink deeper. Also if one bubble gets destroyed it will be replaced by a new one there is no end to it.

From WN bubbles in each layer have dimensionality differences. But because all bubbles are separate existence there is no reality fiction difference. So technically layer two bubbles are evolved to different dimensions than layer one bubbles.

Also the author introducing countless Bubbles is just to give layers of hax manipulation skill probably. Like if Anos can destroy whole layer one then he gets countless layers of hax manipulation and resistance on 4D or 5D scale like that.

BTW it does make Little sense. Otherwise he could have just introduced reality fiction difference Or just bigger size differences for dimensionality.
 
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Just made a short summary on my understanding of Silver sea. Not saying it's correct but take a look at it tell me your opinions. Also ignore grammar mistakes English ain't my language.

It's stated as a world born in zero layer and continues to evolve and life can only exist inside a bubble. It's clearly mentioned that life can't exist inside the Silver sea. Silver sea is not a higher dimension. It's just a water-like thing. Concept of dimensions, worlds or realms exists inside the bubble.

Each world just evolves dimensionally and moves on from one layer to another. It's even backed up by novels that when bubbles evolve they sink deeper. Also if one bubble gets destroyed it will be replaced by a new one there is no end to it.

From WN bubbles in each layer have dimensionality differences. But because all bubbles are separate existence there is no reality fiction difference. So technically layer two bubbles are evolved to different dimensions than layer one bubbles.

Also the author introducing countless Bubbles is just to give layers of hax manipulation skill probably. Like if Anos can destroy whole layer one then he gets countless layers of hax manipulation and resistance on 4D or 5D scale like that.

BTW it does make Little sense. Otherwise he could have just introduced reality fiction difference Or just bigger size differences for dimensionality.
Click to expand...
Huh.... Interesting, i can't tell if you are right or wrong ... You can also read Null's cosmology blog and compare it with your understanding
 
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Just made a short summary on my understanding of Silver sea. Not saying it's correct but take a look at it tell me your opinions. Also ignore grammar mistakes English ain't my language.
Click to expand...

Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
It's stated as a world born in zero layer and continues to evolve and life can only exist inside a bubble. It's clearly mentioned that life can't exist inside the Silver sea.
Click to expand...
This is somewhat correct. Life can exist outside a bubble, but life cannot live outside a bubble for a long time, because the pressure of silver water is tremendously strong, and silver water also absorbs magic power, making it uninhabitable outside a bubble.

Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Silver sea is not a higher dimension. It's just a water-like thing.
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure about this. I think the Silver Sea being a physically higher dimensional structure is definitely a possibility.

Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Concept of dimensions, worlds or realms exists inside the bubble.
Click to expand...
I personally have never read anything in the novel that implied something like this.

Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Each world just evolves dimensionally and moves on from one layer to another. It's even backed up by novels that when bubbles evolve they sink deeper.
Click to expand...
Yes, when a world first evolves it sinks deeper from layer 0 to layer 1 IIRC, but it doesn't evolve "dimensionally". The world and its inhabitants' overall power simply increase by an unquantifiable, presumably innumerable amount.

Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Also if one bubble gets destroyed it will be replaced by a new one there is no end to it.
Click to expand...
This is correct IIRC.

Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
From WN bubbles in each layer have dimensionality differences. But because all bubbles are separate existence there is no reality fiction difference. So technically layer two bubbles are evolved to different dimensions than layer one bubbles.
Click to expand...
No, this is simply incorrect as far as I can understand.
Trying to argue for "dimensionality differences" between layer from layer 1-99 doesn't make sense, since it's clearly shown in the novel that characters from those layers are 3-dimensional.
The only argument that could possibly work for deeper layers to qualify for Tier 1 or something would be reality fiction difference between layers, and the only possible statements for something like that would be the Silver Water Shogi game, tho I personally currently doubt that the Silver Water Shogi game was actually a feat of reality fiction difference between layers.
Deeper layers are still definitely more powerful than shallower layers tho.

Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Also the author introducing countless Bubbles is just to give layers of hax manipulation skill probably. Like if Anos can destroy whole layer one then he gets countless layers of hax manipulation and resistance on 4D or 5D scale like that.
Click to expand...
I don't think it works like that...
 
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imZer0Null said:
This is somewhat correct. Life can exist outside a bubble, but life cannot live outside a bubble for a long time, because the pressure of silver water is tremendously strong, and silver water also absorbs magic power, making it uninhabitable outside a bubble.
Click to expand...
Hm. They can't survive longer in Silver sea i see.
imZer0Null said:
I'm not so sure about this. I think the Silver Sea being a physically higher dimensional structure is definitely a possibility.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's a higher dimension because bubble world is born from zero layer and it evolve right. I thought it has something to do with platonic concept but i may be wrong because wiki doesn't use that.
imZer0Null said:
I personally have never read anything in the novel that implied something like this.
Click to expand...
Dimension, world or realms existing only inside the bubble was already in your blog also.
imZer0Null said:
Yes, when a world first evolves it sinks deeper from layer 0 to layer 1 IIRC, but it doesn't evolve "dimensionally". The world and its inhabitants' overall power simply increase by an unquantifiable, presumably innumerable amount.
Click to expand...
I was referring to the parrington statement. When he said "everything in the small world deeper than your small world" possible explanation i can give is a world evolved dimensionally and sink into deeper.
imZer0Null said:
No, this is simply incorrect as far as I can understand.
Trying to argue for "dimensionality differences" between layer from layer 1-99 doesn't make sense, since it's clearly shown in the novel that characters from those layers are 3-dimensional.
Click to expand...
As far i my understanding. Author kinda uses 3D word just to observation point of view probably.
imZer0Null said:
The only argument that could possibly work for deeper layers to qualify for Tier 1 or something would be reality fiction difference between layers, and the only possible statements for something like that would be the Silver Water Shogi game, tho I personally currently doubt that the Silver Water Shogi game was actually a feat of reality fiction difference between layers.
Deeper layers are still definitely more powerful than shallower layers tho.
Click to expand...
Yeah this too.

Btw i got the main idea of this because of DC Perpetua profile. From her scaling 6D is outerversal. I mean 6th dimension is outerversal in DC cosmology or something.
 
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Dimension, world or realms existing only inside the bubble was already in your blog also.
Click to expand...
Yes, "other dimensions" and "different worlds or realms" do exist inside bubbles. An example of this would be the Land of Traces IIRC.
I misunderstood what you meant when you said "Concept of dimensions, worlds or realms (only?) exists inside the bubble".
 
imZer0Null said:
Yes, "other dimensions" and "different worlds or realms" do exist inside bubbles. An example of this would be the Land of Traces IIRC.
I misunderstood what you meant when you said "Concept of dimensions, worlds or realms (only?) exists inside the bubble".
Click to expand...
Nah it's ok.

Btw worlds born in zero layer and concepts space time are created inside the bubble right?
 
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Btw worlds born in zero layer and concepts space time are created inside the bubble right?
Click to expand...
Sorry, but I'm not entirely sure what you're asking.
To answer what I think you could be asking tho, all worlds are indeed "born" in layer 0 IIRC, and each bubble is presumably a separate space-time continuum, which is created when the world is "born" (created by the God of Creation from a white void). The space-time continuum is not inside the bubble, it IS the bubble, as far as I know.
 
I think if each layer is 2-A then Silver Sea should be low 1-C rn tho, I mean Silver Sea is downright bigger than 2-A structure and the only way to be bigger than countable infinity is being uncountable infinity (since standard about being bigger than baseline 2-A cosmology doesn't exist anymore)
 
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Delta333 said:
I think if each layer is 2-A then Silver Sea should be low 1-C rn tho, I mean Silver Sea is downright bigger than 2-A structure and the only way to bigger than countable infinity is being uncountable infinity (since standard about being bigger than baseline 2-A cosmology doesn't exist anymore)
Click to expand...
Unfortunately each layer is 2B😔
 
imZer0Null said:
Sorry, but I'm not entirely sure what you're asking.
Click to expand...
Sorry 😔 i am really bad at English
imZer0Null said:
To answer what I think you could be asking tho, all worlds are indeed "born" in layer 0 IIRC, and each bubble is presumably a separate space-time continuum, which is created when the world is "born" (created by the God of Creation from a white void).
Click to expand...
Each Bubbles are seperate realities with separate plane of existence. When bubbles in zero layer they evolve and moves on to layer 1( 3D or 4D however you refere it.) Same process repeats and when laws and order gets stronger and bubbles evolve there plane of existence evolves dimensionally.

The reason why I belive they dimensionally evolve is just simple. Because the bubbles keep evolving and parrington statement.

The various laws that make up the world, or the power of the gods that keep these laws normal. There are various orders such as “time”, “creation”, and “destruction”, and the same number of gods control them.

So my understanding is oder (concepts) of space-time exist within bubbles. I am not claiming Silver sea is outerversal. But layers are just planes of higher dimensional. Just a possibility though.

vsbattles.fandom.com

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Furthermore, higher-dimensional entities can also qualify for higher tiers when the verse which they are from explicitly defines them as being infinitely above lower-dimensional ones in power and/or existential status. An example of this being verses such as Umineko no Naku Koro ni. However, lower-dimensional beings being stated to be "flat" in comparision to higher-dimensional aliens is not necessarily grounds for assuming the latter has infinitely more power (For reasons outlined in the answer above), and thus, such scenarios must also be analyzed case-by-case.

kinda matches Maou Gakuin cosmology

imZer0Null said:
The space-time continuum is not inside the bubble, it IS the bubble, as far as I know.
Click to expand...
Actually yes. But my point is each bubble has their own dimensionality. By evolving the dimensionality of bubbles changes.

BTW fully transcending Concept of space-time is outer right?
 
Delta333 said:
Each layer can be 2-A that's why you can see the possibly 2-A thing on his profile
Click to expand...
Is it not because the area between each layer is infinite but each layer only contains countless universes, but also for the possibility that it contains infinite universes, just as stated in AP venuz

So that's why anos got poss 2A?(cmiiw Delta) sorry to bother
 
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