Major star wars revision

[Hellbeast]

They don’t explicitly state Vader > Yoda, but there is a multitude of sources that state Vader is the second most powerful person in the galaxy during the original trilogy, which would put him above Yoda.

Does anyone making those statements even know Yoda's alive (in universe I mean?)

Obi-Wan can kick Grievous's ass because he is THE master of form 3 of lightsaber combat(Seresu, I forget the name) which perfectly countered Grievous's fighting style, along with Grievous Bing weakened due to mace force crushing his ass

Was Grievous still weakened during the Utapau fight? A good few days passed and we regularly saw Grievous and Kenobi fight on par with each other (I'm assuming there's no statements imply Grievous grew)

 

[chosen]

Does anyone making those statements even know Yoda's alive (in universe I mean?)

Was Grievous still weakened during the Utapau fight? A good few days passed and we regularly saw Grievous and Kenobi fight on par with each other (I'm assuming there's no statements imply Grievous grew)

We regulary saw them Fight on par in the 3d show which is ab different continuity to the animated one where he fights windu

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also Obi-Wan was “amped” against Grievous, as he had given himself over to the Force and was letting it guide his movements.

Well yeah, that's obvious.

Was Grievous still weakened during the Utapau fight? A good few days passed and we regularly saw Grievous and Kenobi fight on par with each other (I'm assuming there's no statements imply Grievous grew)

2003 show? Obi-Wan and Grievous never met before in legends before RoTS.

 

[Hellbeast]

2003 show? Obi-Wan and Grievous never met before in legends before RoTS.

TCW
It's canon and Legends

We regulary saw them Fight on par in the 3d show which is ab different continuity to the animated one where he fights windu

TCW is still Legends canon; in fact it's part of T-Canon (the second highest form of continuity)

 

[chosen]

TCW
It's canon and Legends

TCW is still Legends canon; in fact it's part of T-Canon (the second highest form of continuity)

There are 2 tcw
Animated one
3d one
Both non Canon to each other

 

[chosen]

TCW is still Legends canon; in fact it's part of T-Canon

3d tcw is non Canon to animated (if it ends up with me seeing 2 times then is cuz vbwiki showed me it wasn't sended the first time)

 

[SheevShezarrine]

He wasn't weakened by billions if not trillions of times

Pretty certain that the series doesn't treat the gap between Palpatine and Council masters as that vast. He can stomp them, obviously, but he didn't just snap his fingers and vaporize them as he logically should have with the power gap. Verses don't always play by our rules, especially in regards to both stomps and the power disparity between tiers

 

[LordTracer]

Does anyone making those statements even know Yoda's alive (in universe I mean?)

The statements are made by the narrator (some of the statements are actually from guidebooks iirc)

 

[Hellbeast]

There are 2 tcw
Animated one
3d one
Both non Canon to each other

3d tcw is non Canon to animated (if it ends up with me seeing 2 times then is cuz vbwiki showed me it wasn't sended the first time)

Read here

Also

• Mother Talzin appears in Maul: Lockdown
• Darth Plagueis implies Maul's Dathomirian heritage is intact
• The Ones of Mortis are referenced thanks to Abeloth in the NJO stuff
• Several "Legends" materials involve The Clone Wars animated show; there are references to episodes, they use the designs etc
  • Hell I think there's outright novelisations of TCW content
• Later sourcebooks have TCW content
• Umbara appears in the Star Wars: The Old Republic MMORPG (Which is Legends despite it's ongoing support)

The Lore-Master of Mandalore is blatantly wrong; TCW being outside of Legends means you need to ignore whole swaths of material solely to force that and none of the explanations (TCW is republic propaganda) are anything more substantial then headcanon.

It's outright a higher form of canon then the Tartakovsky show.

The statements are made by the narrator (some of the statements are actually from guidebooks iirc)

Hmm; narrator statements should be taken with a grain of salt imo but I can get behind the guidebook stuff

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Windu has enough anti feats to make his whole Sidious fight an Outlier even if it was fair 1 v1

 

[chosen]

Read here

Also

• Mother Talzin appears in Maul: Lockdown
• Darth Plagueis implies Maul's Dathomirian heritage is intact
• The Ones of Mortis are referenced thanks to Abeloth in the NJO stuff
• Several "Legends" materials involve The Clone Wars animated show; there are references to episodes, they use the designs etc
  • Hell I think there's outright novelisations of TCW content
• Later sourcebooks have TCW content
• Umbara appears in the Star Wars: The Old Republic MMORPG (Which is Legends despite it's ongoing support)

The Lore-Master of Mandalore is blatantly wrong; TCW being outside of Legends means you need to ignore whole swaths of material solely to force that and none of the explanations (TCW is republic propaganda) are anything more substantial then headcanon.

It's outright a higher form of canon then the Tartakovsky show.

Hmm; narrator statements should be taken with a grain of salt imo but I can get behind the guidebook stuff

No i know tcw is Canon
I say that 3d show =/= animated show

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Windu has enough anti feats to make his whole Sidious fight an Outlier even if it was fair 1 v1

Doesn't Windu get amped by Vaapad when fighting someone who actively uses the Dark Side?

 

[chosen]

Doesn't Windu get amped by Vaapad when fighting someone who actively uses the Dark Side?

If is True then Couldn't that mean he was also amped the same amount against dooku?(curios to support dooku palpatine tier case)

 

[Hellbeast]

No i know tcw is Canon
I say that 3d show =/= animated show

Yes because TCW is >> the 2D show in terms of canonicity
I just wanted to adress that because it has Grievous vs Obi-Wan so damn often

 

[chosen]

Yes because TCW is >> the 2D show in terms of canonicity
I just wanted to adress that because it has Grievous vs Obi-Wan so damn often

Ok but only in the 2d show windu fights Grievous's
So windu vs grievous Couldn't be used as an anti feat

 

[Hellbeast]

Ok but only in the 2d show windu fights Grievous's
So windu vs grievous Couldn't be used as an anti feat

It can tho
If the higher form of continuity is saying that's what happened then that's what happened

Simple as that; at most you could argue Grievous grew stronger

 

[LordTracer]

Doesn't Windu get amped by Vaapad when fighting someone who actively uses the Dark Side?

Yes. That’s why he was able to keep pace with Sidious, even though he’s usually stated to be around Obi-Wan-Dooku level.

 

[Hellbeast]

Plus I think part of the versewide revisions involve adding a Varies tier for certain stuff anyway

 

[chosen]

It can tho
If the higher form of continuity is saying that's what happened then that's what happened

Simple as that; at most you could argue Grievous grew stronger

Going by 3d clones the animated grievous vs windu Fight wouldn't happen
The reason why grievous is windu crushing his heart
This is why we Always see grievous silent in animated cw but not ep 3
When in 3d cw
Pretty sure ki Adi mudi should also scale to kit fisto
If so proves the point
In animated tcw ki Adi mudi is fodder compared to him
Mudi admiting it
When kit scales to grievous in 3d tcw

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I'm sorry, but I'm so lost right now on what's happening and Chosen's Grammar and Spellihg Errors are making this considerably more difficult for me to understand what's being said.

 

[aeneax]

The problem reveals itself

• Death of the Author applies if paratext is inconsistent with text
  • Which the 80 percent statement would be because of all the statements Vader has grown in power since Mustafar (I recall 7)
  • The WOG wouldn't come under G Canon necessarily because G Canon refers to the context of the actual films; not behind the scenes statements

Legends is beholden to Lucas' vision. Anything he says or does takes default absolute precedence over C-canon. That's how the hierarchy is constructed. I don't abide by Death of the Author. It's a tiring concept that more often than not is used in an erroneous way.

Lucas' 80% quote is addressing potential. There is a very similar and better quote on the TESB DVD Commentary that goes more in-depth about that.

DT Vader loses to Muur. ANH Vader loses to TPM Maul. These are two direct feats contradicting that notion.

There are 9 C-canon sources directly stating that Vader is weaker than Anakin. If you take into account sources that imply it and G-canon sources, you'd have at least 20 sources on prequel fighters being superior to Darth Vader.

He views himself as a valuable part of the plan; that doesn't mean he isn't aware of Palpatine's power and there are way too many statements implying Sidious' superiority for Dooku to be relative.

Yes, Dooku believes Sidious wouldn't kill him. Sidious is superior to Dooku - what I am arguing for is that the gap is not big.

If is True then Couldn't that mean he was also amped the same amount against dooku?

The opponent not only needs to be using the dark side, but they also have to be very aggressive to allow Vaapad to be 100% efficient. Dooku is an oddball in terms of Sith because it has been noted multiple times that being angry throws him off-balance and makes him weaker, so Vaapad can't be used to the same extent against him.

 

[aeneax]

Windu has enough anti feats to make his whole Sidious fight an Outlier even if it was fair 1 v1

Lucas' quotes help Mace immensely. If we're talking EU alone, his performance against Sidious is definitely a big outlier.

 

[chosen]

I'm sorry, but I'm so lost right now on what's happening and Chosen's Grammar and Spellihg Errors are making this considerably more difficult for me to understand what's being said.

I am trying to say why you can't use both animated and 3d tcw for grievous scaling