• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Major Black Clover Downgrade

Ryuga21

Ryuga21

Messages
3,182
Reaction score
1,107
Hello everyone.

The reason I'm doing this thread is that I recently finished reading the manga and realized that there are dozens of weird things in Black Clover profiles.

First of all, power scaling.

Several characters are listed at 6-C but the reason is inconsistent.

  • We have Yami listed at 6-C by "damaging the Word Devil" but its not true, I mean this is true but Yami uses a dura negation-based attack for that, and every time that he hit the devil was with Jigen Giri.
    • Many others characters (Like Mereoleona) gets scalling with Yami and because that many elves too. They all should be downgraded.
This should downgraded also Asta and Yuno with Black Divider and Spirit of Zephyr since Licht's ultimate combined Attack with Elves isn't High 6-C anymore.

Another thing that is weird is the ability section of many characters.

  • Yuno has accelered developerment in his BoS key but the reason is from a feat only showed in Elves Arc (chapter 208).
  • Yami has Sleep Manipulation via knock a person by tapping its head (I see it as Pressure Points)
  • Asta has resistance to Power Modificatiom but this Power Mod only affect people with mana and Asta don't have it. Asta has resistance to Power Nulification but the Devil's spear only desistegrate magical powers and Anti-Magic isn't.
  • Luck Voltia has elemental intangibility for a anime only scene
  • Fuegoleon's "Willpower Manipulation" is just Social Influencing
  • The Fear inducement stuff still remain in some profiles when we have two threads for remove it.
Regarding Black Asta and Spirit Dive Yuno at Elves Arc

  • Black Asta is listed at 6-C by stabb the Word Devil I think this should refer to this scene since it was the first time Asta could even hit the devil. Well about being 6-C this ins't wrong but Asta din't do this in only Black Asta form, in this scene he was using Black Divider.
  • The same goes to Yuno, the most next to hurt the Devil was using Spirit of Zephyr. Not only Spirit Dive.
So, here goes my trought... Asta and Yuno should have a 6-C tier only using Black Divider and Spirit of Zephyr. You can say "But Asta and Yuno have 6-C dura, this should scale to AP". They don't have 6-C dura... The Devil couldn't hit Asta and Yuno in the whole fight and I'd love to see someone show me a scan where this happens.

Other inconsistent applications

 
This threads name was wrong. The problem is the reasoning with for characters who scale to 6C. Yami is consistently 6C lol but this is not the point.

The reasoning for the characters that scale to him needs to be fixed because there are a couple of them who would have better feats and reasoning.

Also again Yami has damaged the devil twice. He even cut his tail off the first time.
 
6-C stuff:

  • None of them scales to Yami. In fact, Yami, Mereoleona and others should scale to the Apostles whom are comparable to Licht.
Abilities:

  • Spirit of Zephyr was just an example. He learned how to use sylph in the middle of the battle
  • Agree there, that must have been there for years i think.
  • Agree there too
  • I already gave a scan where he did this. The same thing is shown both in the Anime and the Manga
  • Still leaning towards Willpower. Can you elaborate why it should be Social Influencing?
  • Just wait, this is on going
Regarding Black Asta and Spirit Dive Yuno at Elves Arc

  • I will give my opinion on this later
Other inconsistent applications

  • Fana's feat was accepted by Ant.
  • I already told you that it's Yuno's attack...

Most of what I see are just bad descriptions.


Guys, can you say what you're agreeing or not? because "most of this" still means there are things you disagree
 
Sorry about not going into detail, but basically, I disagree with the Low 7-B stuff since it was Yuno's own attack that caused the feat, and all Yuno says is that "Tremendous amounts of magic is being condensed" not that more magic is being added to the attack. Everting else admittedly I glossed over, but now that I actually used my brain, I disagree with the 6-C stuff as well because the feat doesn't come from the Word Devil, but from Licht iirc. So just cause they don't harm the WD, doesn't mean they aren't 6-C.
 
I think the 6-C problem was the description. I started to feel something was wrong with the scaling so I tried to search for the actual scaling and I only found it yesterday.

Licht absorbed a huge amount of negative energy to prevent Devil to possess him. His body got massive changes and became a Demon then Lumiere made made Licht explode after trading several blows.
 
I don't recall Yami ever fighting a member of the Apostles. Pretty sure he has only fought the normal elves.

Fana's feat actually wasn't accepted by Ant. In the comment he said the calc needs to be reevaluated.
 
Apostles:

Reve: One shot by Luck and Magna

Lira: Charmy overpowered him

Fana: Noelle made half of her body blow up

Vetto: Lost to Mereoleona

Kaiser: Lost to Fuegoleon

Yami just scales.
 
I don't remember the apostles followers of Sephira being comparable to Licht, can someone show me a scan for that?

Epsilon, Ant ins't a Calc Group Member and he says to you ask for evaluations.

Yami cutting Devil's tail ins't a good feat to put him at 6-C, it's a minor damage and the tail was basically a weak point.

Yuno literally says that Licht's attack was too much for him and was being condensed with another magic. He stated that more magic was being added with other words.
 
Oh right I forgot the members of Black Bull fought them. But just to make sure where was it stated that the Apostles were comparable to Licht?
 
I agree with Yami's downgrade. If the attack is explicit Durability Negation, 6-C shouldn't be scalable.

Pressure Points is also correct.

I agree with Asta not having resistance to power null. If said null is Magic Null, magicless beings would obviously be unaffected. That's not a resistance but a weakness of the power itself.

Dunno about Luck's intangbility. I'm not too well versed about the canonicity in BC (but the anime is more filled with screams if anything).

I agree with Fuegoleon's Social Influencing. If it's not through a supernatural way, it's not Willpower Manipulation.

Fear Inducement was debunked as well, yes.

I guess the bit about Asta and Yuno is okay as well.
 
If anything, Black Asta is still 6-C due to being comparable to Noelle, Luck and Charmy

Also I never said Yami should scale due to cutting the Devil

And again Yuno just said "A tremendous amount of Mana is being condensed", he never said anything about Licht's attack being too much for him. And condensing just means reducing the volume of something.

@Peter Licht is an apostle
 
I'm still waiting for the scan that makes Fana and other apostles comparable to Licht
 
Yeah I also need to see some scans that prove Apostles are comparable to Licht before agreeing with 6-C. Cause from what I've seen Licht is supposed to be far beyond even the Apostles.
 
There might be a miss understanding here. When u guys say Lichi do u mean the actual Licht or Patri?


Also prove where Word Devil's tail is a weak point. We don't assume that because that's literally bad reasoning without any evidence. Word Devil even said he got hurt. Next we got a literal statement about Yami being able to defeat a Devil.


I can also give more proof. The high tier captains are all 6C because they scale above Asta who is 6C for overpowering the Wizard King and sending him flying and for breaking the Word Devil's Trident. The same Asta who was getting overpowered by Dark Elf Patri who got stomped by Nozel
 
Also I do know Licht is the strongest apostle but is there any evidence that the others are massively below him?
 
@AstralKing7

Simple is impossible to scale the durability of a tail with the durability of the body, because the tail is a much thinner and more fragile region of all beings that have it.

Asta din't did any damage on Lumière he just send him flying because was a surpise attack and because he used Anti-Magic. Just as he cut the devil's trident because Anti-Magic bypass the durability of any magic construction.

@Epsilon R

Licht is treated as the strongest Elf, apparently there is no indication that other apostles are comparable to him, so there is nothing to refute me
 
I don't know if it makes a difference, but Black Form Asta working together with Yuno managed to scratch the World Devil, although it was very light and was before the World Devil got a grimoire
 
Okay the Downplay is real within this thread. He sent the FWK dying because he had anti magic??? First of all everything we scale Asta off is because he uses anti magic. FWK literally stated after he got sent flying that was incredible. He even said he felt like he wouldn't be able to use magic anymore.


Also I see that you don't remember everything in the fight with the Word Devil. The first time Asta clashes with the word Devil he didn't break the trident! The exclamation mark is for the emphasis on him not breaking it. The fact that he didn't break it meant that the trident itself which has the same effects as the demon slayer is resistant to anti magic. Second the Word Devil literally gave a statement about his trident disintegrating anything it touches. So no the second time Asta clashes with him he overpowered the Word Devil and broke the trident. He didn't do it because of anti magic lol. I really suggest re reading Black Clover elf invasion again
 
@AstralKing7

1. When Asta attacked the first Magic Emperor he was using an uncontrolled Black Divider, which has solid feats to be 6-C. However, Lumiere himself stated that "Anti-Magic is amazing" and he could not use magic because of it (Anti-Magic is basically enhanced as Black Divider), not because he suffered damage, in fact, his stone body was intact.

2. When Asta broke Devil's trident he was using an uncontrolled Black Divider, agai. And not, Devil ins't resistant to Anti-Magic, his trident literally was stopped and broked (Black Divider power null > base Asta power null) by it.

Your whole argument revolves around Asta's feats involving the Black Divider and not the black form itself. I don't want be rude but Black Clover was wanked before this thread, Sorry but that's the truth.
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
I don't know if it makes a difference, but Black Form Asta working together with Yuno managed to scratch the World Devil, although it was very light and was before the World Devil got a grimoire
Click to expand...
It's minor and was done by a combined attack
 
By the way, the 7-B calc was accepted. By Therefir, a clac memeber. All Ant did was confirm this
 
No one said that this calc was not accepted, the problem is:

1. That was a wind-based attack which has no indication of being vaporization

2. Yuno and Asta was overpowered by it and shouldn't scale to it's full potential
 
Black-clover-10739635
There is very clearly smoke or steam or something wafting up from the edges of the destruction
 
1. This is why they used Vaporization https://jaiminisbox.com/reader/read/black_clover/en/0/157/page/7 You can also use the Anime version if you want

2. For the third time, It was Yuno's attack and they were not overpowered by it.

Not to sound rude but it seems you really want to downplay this feat honestly, first saying it's Licht's attack which is actually Yuno's, then saying they got overpowered by it when it's not the case, now it's not vaporized at all?
 
1. Anime isn't canon, this looks like dust for me.

2.Yuno was sent away and was frightened by the power of this attack even before it was launched is very clear that it wasn't his own power, Asta fainted from this attack and Yuno was sent away, how they were not overpowered?
 
1. This looks like dust for you, not for others. Also I never said anime was canon

2. Being sent away doesn't mean anything, he wasn't hurt whatsoever. He also tanked it while protecting Mimosa. And again, Yuno being frightened (which isn't really the case) doesn't make clear that it isn't Yuno's attack. As for Asta not tanking the hit, unlike Yuno, Asta had several injuries and was exhausted before fighting Licht, he couldn't even stay in Black Form for too long which would cause huge recoil damage on his body.

So he fainted but 1; he used Black Asta 2 times which causes huge damage on his body (to the point he wasn't able to move after the first one) and in a short period of time and 2; he didn't took any damage from the attack unlike Licht's casual attacks
 
1. I can use the same argument. Explain how a hurricane can generate heat to the point of vaporizing the ground? I would understand if Licht had imbued magical energy into the ST but according to you he didn't do that.

2. Fine, you explained better the part of them not being overpowered but I still think that is strange Yuno being afraid by his own power and needs help to stop it.
 
1. The thing is this isn't a hurricane.

2. He didn't really asked for help though, besides they were at point-blank range so they wouldn't be able to dodge it.
 
ThRei Rubro said:
@AstralKing7
Simple is impossible to scale the durability of a tail with the durability of the body, because the tail is a much thinner and more fragile region of all beings that have it.

Asta din't did any damage on Lumière he just send him flying because was a surpise attack and because he used Anti-Magic. Just as he cut the devil's trident because Anti-Magic bypass the durability of any magic construction.

@Epsilon R

Licht is treated as the strongest Elf, apparently there is no indication that other apostles are comparable to him, so there is nothing to refute me
Click to expand...
The Trident is a physical object that could damage Lumiere. We know this because Anti-magic at first had little effect, and the devil can make both magical and physical objects with his word magic. The fact that Asta broke it....
 
Rei Rubro said:
Hello everyone.
The reason I'm doing this thread is that I recently finished reading the manga and realized that there are dozens of weird things in Black Clover profiles.

First of all, power scaling.

Several characters are listed at 6-C but the reason is inconsistent.

  • We have Yami listed at 6-C by "damaging the Word Devil" but its not true, I mean this is true but Yami uses a dura negation-based attack for that, and every time that he hit the devil was with Jigen Giri.
    • Many others characters (Like Mereoleona) gets scalling with Yami and because that many elves too. They all should be downgraded.
This should downgraded also Asta and Yuno with Black Divider and Spirit of Zephyr since Licht's ultimate combined Attack with Elves isn't High 6-C anymore.

Another thing that is weird is the ability section of many characters.

  • Yuno has accelered developerment in his BoS key but the reason is from a feat only showed in Elves Arc (chapter 208).
  • Yami has Sleep Manipulation via knock a person by tapping its head (I see it as Pressure Points)
  • Asta has resistance to Power Modificatiom but this Power Mod only affect people with mana and Asta don't have it. Asta has resistance to Power Nulification but the Devil's spear only desistegrate magical powers and Anti-Magic isn't.
  • Luck Voltia has elemental intangibility for a anime only scene
  • Fuegoleon's "Willpower Manipulation" is just Social Influencing
  • The Fear inducement stuff still remain in some profiles when we have two threads for remove it.
Regarding Black Asta and Spirit Dive Yuno at Elves Arc

  • Black Asta is listed at 6-C by stabb the Word Devil I think this should refer to this scene since it was the first time Asta could even hit the devil. Well about being 6-C this ins't wrong but Asta din't do this in only Black Asta form, in this scene he was using Black Divider.
  • The same goes to Yuno, the most next to hurt the Devil was using Spirit of Zephyr. Not only Spirit Dive.
So, here goes my trought... Asta and Yuno should have a 6-C tier only using Black Divider and Spirit of Zephyr. You can say "But Asta and Yuno have 6-C dura, this should scale to AP". They don't have 6-C dura... The Devil couldn't hit Asta and Yuno in the whole fight and I'd love to see someone show me a scan where this happens.

Other inconsistent applications

Click to expand...
Yuno has accelerated development because he has a four leaf clover grimoire. It is explained in the series/guidebooks.
 
@Epsilon

1. Spirit Storm is a hurricane, if Licht absorbs it and send back was a hurricane too.

2. Fine
 
@BlackAstaSenpai

I already explained that this trident feat was using the Black Divider. We need to change Yuno's AD description then.
 
BlackAstaSenpai said:
@Rei Rubro

Nah it was with the unrefined version of Black Divider. Black Divider > Unrefined Black Divider
Click to expand...
Is the same Black Divider the only difference is that Asta not has control of it.

@Epsilon R

Meh, is just a beam of Wind, this isn't like Kamehameha. Or Yuno should have Energy Projection now?
 
@Rei Rubro

Prove that it is the same. Black Divider ACTUALLY gets a spell name. The unrefined version isn't even sharp and is just a fluid mass of anti-magic. The whole point of the spell is to make the Demon Slayer actually sharp again. Also, Control is a huge part of the power system so IDK why he would not have control of it yet be weaker than the one he has control of.
 
@BlackAstaSenpai

The ability get a name doesn't make it stronger, that mass of Anti-Magic was the power of an uncontrolled Black Divider, however Asta learns control and sharp that power at the end of the chapter (Generating the Black Divider)... So yes it's the same Black Divider, the only difference is that was out of control. And it don't change anything in Black Asta tier. So, what's your point?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Mommyleona
  • Locked
Pre-Time Skip Black clover speed updates
2
Replies
50
Views
5K
Mommyleona
Mommyleona
Orletoes
  • Locked
Solar System Black Clover
Replies
34
Views
7K
Damage3245
Damage3245
AstaDragon123
  • Locked
Black Clover : Good bye Mftl speed
2 3 4
Replies
136
Views
27K
JohnHendrix212
JohnHendrix212
M1 Abrams Upscale
Replies
12
Views
884
DaReaperMan
DaReaperMan
Deonment
First Guardian, but not First Place (Homestuck downgrade)
Replies
14
Views
1K
BoastJr
BoastJr
Back
Top