Madoka vs. Abel

[PurgeX0]

Who wins? Ultimate Madoka or Abel from Shin Megami Tensei?

Bloodlusted, Speed Equalized.

Abel has his observation ability.

 

[Elione-Arisu]

Madoka, via conceptual manip and soul manip

 

[Kaltias]

While Abel has the advantage in raw power because Abel>Metatron>Kagusutchi, with the latter being 2A, he doesn't have a way to permanently put down Madoka due to her type 8 immortality, so I vote for her

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Madoka for reasons above

 

[PurgeX0]

Sorry, I forgot. What was the concept needed for her to exist?

Either way, to make this more fair, Abel now has his COMP with him.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Well no one seems really clear on what concept Madoka is reliant on. A lot of people (myself included) think she embodies the concept of hope, while this wiki says she embodies the concept of "killing witches before they are ever born"

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

COMP lets him summon other demons right? What ones can he summon?

 

[PurgeX0]

COMP lets him summon other demons right? What ones can he summon?

I stated all of the playable demons from DS:O. This includes, but is not limited to: Odin, Thor, Pixie, Heimdall, Lucifer, etc.

 

[Kaltias]

Can any of the demons bypass Madoka's immortality or prevent her from killing Abel?

 

[PurgeX0]

Can any of the demons bypass Madoka's immortality or prevent her from killing Abel?

If we don't know the concept that Madoka is reliant on, then we probably shouldn't even count that.

 

[Kaltias]

I mean, we know it's an abstract concept. It could be hope as the destruction of witches, but it would take a concept manipulator in both cases to bypass the immortality.

 

[Kaltias]

According to her profile she rely on the concept of destroying witches so we'll use that

 

[MagiSinbad]

Does Abel got his Observation power ? It's not on his profile since it's an ability from the latest game of SMT

 

[Kaltias]

What is it? Which is its effect?

 

[MagiSinbad]

it's the power that The Axiom bestowed upon the humanity since the dawn of creation .

in a basic explanation : It's a power that can shape the reality as the human see fit. This power was so powerful that it even warp the concepts of the world. Take the Gods and Demons as the example, each of them is an abstract concept got given form by the Observation, that's why they cant kill each other, as they are the immortal abstract of the world. Well, unless.. they fights with a human

With the Observation, a REGULAR human can denies the god's nature. seperate them from the concept that they possesses and kill them like a regular demon

YHVH s also a victim of this power in the final battle of Apocalypse. He was the embodiment of all existences, in his own word "Fighting me means fight again the world". But thank to the Observation power, he got demonized to a demon, no more no less, and no longer an abstract like he used to be

Well, that's the explanation about the Observation power. If you want to exclude this ability then it's understandable, since it's not on Abel's profile yet.

also, Since Abel was able to beat up an At least 2-A like a joke, i dont see Madoka can do any better again him (hell, that wasnt even Fully awakened Abel, That Abel scared Metatron and 4 Cardinal Archangels runaway just by standing there) unless there is something that i've missed from Madoka's series and movies.

 

[PurgeX0]

it's the power that The Axiom bestowed upon the humanity since the dawn of creation .
in a basic explanation : It's a power that can shape the reality as the human see fit. This power was so powerful that it even warp the concepts of the world. Take the Gods and Demons as the example, each of them is an abstract concept got given form by the Observation, that's why they cant kill each other, as they are the immortal abstract of the world. Well, unless.. they fights with a human

With the Observation, a REGULAR human can denies the god's nature. seperate them from the concept that they possesses and kill them like a regular demon

YHVH s also a victim of this power in the final battle of Apocalypse. He was the embodiment of all existences, in his own word "Fighting me means fight again the world". But thank to the Observation power, he got demonized to a demon, no more no less, and no longer an abstract like he used to be

Well, that's the explanation about the Observation power. If you want to exclude this ability then it's understandable, since it's not on Abel's profile yet.

also, Since Abel was able to beat up an At least 2-A like a joke, i dont see Madoka can do any better again him (hell, that wasnt even Fully awakened Abel, That Abel scared Metatron and 4 Cardinal Archangels runaway just by standing there) unless there is something that i've missed from Madoka's series and movies.

Alright, scratch the COMP. Abel now has observation.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

If Observation can strip away Madoka's conceptual embodiment, then probably him. He has more battle experience.

 

[Kaltias]

I change my vote to Abel because of more battle experience, raw power, and immortality negation

 

[Elione-Arisu]

I change my vote to Abel too then, for reasons above

 

[SomebodyData]

@Purge and Magi, we can't use things not included in character profiles. You have to make a thread to add it first. Also, this observation thing seems kinda sketchy if I'm reading the SMT wiki correctly. http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Observatio

 

[MagiSinbad]

Well, already see this coming :3 That's why i said you can exclude this ability.

And i dont think i have enough time to make a revision thread for this ability, sorry Data ^__^"

Hm... i checked the Observation page for a couple of times but i dont see anything contradict with what i said. If there anything seem sketchy to you then please tell me

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

If Abel doesn't have observation, I vote Madoka.

If he does, I vote Abel.

Work out which, then take my vote

 

[SomebodyData]

@Magi I see lol

But yeah, my main worry is that Observation is described by (in the quote section) to be more akin to being based from the perspective of humanity on Gods but then suggests that the reason for this is because they're connected (unlike Madoka is, even with verse equalization, which by the way, the op needs to clarify if Madoka can interact with Abel)

 

[MagiSinbad]

Not quiet right. The observation works on him is not because he is connected to mankind, it's because The Observation affect the reality through human's perception. Like Stephen was once said, it's the power turns "Faith" into "Truth" .This ability is so strong that could even warp the concepts that the abstracts (The demons and gods) embodies, hell it doesnt requires to be connected to the user or not. Take Kazuya's soul as an example. YHVH crushed his circle of reincarnation and leaving him as a wandering ghost, but Nanashi fixed his circle of Reincarnation by using his Observation. Dont know about you, this was actually convinced me that the Observation do not require things to be connected to the humanity

YHVH only making the human believes him to be the "one true god" so that he will alway be the strongest god (Of course, this is through the effect of Observation too). But in the end, Nanashi and his crew rejected his divine nature and turn him into a demon with their own Observatio

Hope this will answer your question

 

[SomebodyData]

Hmmm i see, ok thx

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Madoka has no real chance. Abel is far more powerful than she is, and her Type 8 Immortality won't do her any good since practically every demon in SMT has Type 8 Immortality.

 

[Kaltias]

I know that's off topic, but which is a good SMT game for someone who wants to get into the series?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Nocturne is great.

IV and IV Apocalypse are also good gateways.

 

[MagiSinbad]

For an anime fan then i would suggest Devil Survivor series. Great story, deep character developements AND Has the same design artist with Durarara :3

Opening for the first devil survivor game

But...if you're a fan of "the world is shit like alway" "All of my friends are asshole" "no one is good in this world" then...Nocturne would be your game

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

IV and Apocalypse, and Devil Survivor are by far the most hopeful SMT games.