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Madara Uchiha vs Ketheric Thorm

Theglassman12

VS Battles
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Been binging on Baldur's Gate 3 and was thinking about how cool this fight can be given some similarities with each other, so why not try it out. Edo Tensei Madara is used and base Ketheric with his nightsong is used. If it becomes a bit too much for Madara to handle I'll swap it to alive madara and Ketheric without his nightsong. Speed is Equalized and it takes place in the 5 Kage Summit.

Ketheric Thorm:

Madara Uchiha: 2 (Sharkbook01, Arc7kuroi)

Inconclusive:

400
260
 
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Speed = madara has things like body flicker, sharingan precog and his sussano ribcage to aid him in tajutsu

Since it's his edo key he has access to the rinnegan so things like absorbing energy attacks, seeing invisible things, summoning meteors etc are also in play. Wood style to lower targets stats, put them to sleep, bind them and drain energy as well
Low godly regen as well

Then he has trump cards like hypnosis genjutsu, izanagi to return to life and the perfect sussano
 
we have bg3 profiles now!?!?!?!? holy s***, hell yeah ye, i was wrong but its still cool to see him here

anyway, imma also check this later cuz my understanding of naruto got a bit limited with time
 
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@Kidkinsey Ketheric's resistant to statistics reduction and sleep inducement, genjutsu might not work given he's resistant to mind related spells so he'll probably need to use other stuff. That and Low godly isn't as much of an advantage thanks to the Nightsong immortality he has so neither can really kill each other.
 
How good is Kethrics immortality exactly? Could he survive getting smashed into a paste by a Susano? I'm not knowledgeable about DND lore or scaling, but from what I remember from the game he never had any super impressive feats for his immortality.

Also, it would be worth noting that Madaras Genjustu's mind manip is layered while Kethric's resistance is not.
 
He’s literally protected by his ties to a demigod in the shadowfell, and gods in DnD have godly regen so you’re either gonna have to negate his immortality or free the nightsong, which makes him lose his immortality, though good luck doing that when Madara doesn’t really know much on the nightsong. Though chibaku tensei might do him in.

Ketheric I’m pretty sure has some 4-D mindhax resistance due to Magic being weave centric, which sustains the multiverse.
 
He’s literally protected by his ties to a demigod in the shadowfell, and gods in DnD have godly regen
He doesn't have godly regen in this key on his profile. I feel like that should be included in his profile if he has that.

Going off what you said I'm assuming that if magic in general is 4-D in DND, then Madara would be screwed if Kethric hits any soul hax on him. Madara's precog and speed amps should be useful here as from what I can see Kethric has to actually hit Madara to use his soul manipulation. Susanno would be pretty useful for this also since it's essentially a big forcefield made of chakra.

I'm leaning toward Madara rn as it seems like Kethric has to land a Smite (which to my knowledge is a melee spell) to kill him and as soon as Madara enters his Susano that essentially becomes impossible for him since Madara's susaano is huge and has a higher durability than Kethrics AP. Madara on the other hand, can just seal Kethric in a chibaku tensei.
 
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Madara's main problem with chibaku tensei as a wincon is that it is not on, like, the 3 first things he usually does.
Just to be sure: Ketheric can deal with the paths' abilities? Deva and Preta could be a problem
 
Between substitution justus, clones, speed amps, precog, and susano I feel like Madara has enough tools here to survive long enough to realize Kethric is immortal and seal him. Kethric is decently stronger than Madara when he isn't using his susano which would probably cause him to take the fight seriously instead of dicking around like he usually does.
 
@Kidkinsey paralysis doesn’t work on Ketheric, can you read the page before throwing shit on the wall?

@noninho What does deva and Preta path do again?
 
@Kidkinsey paralysis doesn’t work on Ketheric, can you read the page before throwing shit on the wall?

@noninho What does deva and Preta path do again?
All paths of pain summarized very shortly:
Deva uses a very potent gravity/magnetic/idk power to push things away on a ridiculous distance and force or to pull them (chibaku tensei or just pull closer)

Preta absorbs all energy, either what Madara Touches or what's sent at him like magic and things like it, healing with the absorbed energy

Human is soul hax

Animal is Summoning of some strange af (but cool af) animals, like a huge panda, chameleon and pterodactyl

Naraka is another soul hax but very strange. It's a Summoning of a Demon, and if you get questioned about anything and lie, it insta kills you. It also ressurects and or heals whoever he chews and absorb and stores souls

Asura is my favorite, it's some pretty bizarre cyborgizations, like opening your head to shoot a laser, or your hand, or from your wrist shooting ballistic missiles, or getting 4 more arms, extend your hands as a seesaw...or all of them at the same time
 
I don’t recall ketheric using energy beyond the netherese stone, and even then that’s specific to the whole elder brain control. He might use it with his oathbreaker powers but I’m not sure how it meshes with Preta.
 
Don't expect me to contribute much.

The obvious thing is that Ketheric's abilities operate on a 4-D scale. I state this now, and presume that Naruto also has that. If it doesn't, then problems arise. Given that Ketheric isn't actually a hax god, I don't think this would intrinsically make this a stomp (although any of Madara's hax would not work on Ketheric, given his wide range of resistances- it would need to be very niche indeed, or be 4-D and layered significantly).

How good is Kethrics immortality exactly? Could he survive getting smashed into a paste by a Susano? I'm not knowledgeable about DND lore or scaling, but from what I remember from the game he never had any super impressive feats for his immortality.

Also, it would be worth noting that Madaras Genjustu's mind manip is layered while Kethric's resistance is not.
He doesn't have Mid-Godly, he has immortality stolen from a being that has Mid-Godly. As long as that creature lives, and is within the Soul Cage created for it in the Shadowfell, Ketheric will rise again, wounds vanished. As said, this is because it is stolen from this divine being (Dame Aylin), so being smashed to pieces would obviously not really be a problem- Mid-Godly being what it is. To your later point ("it should be on the profile")... eh. It isn't now, because technically he doesn't have it, but I can see the point. It could probably be added.

Because you seem knowledgeable about the game, at least, I will elaborate on Dame Aylin, since you acknowledge you're not familiar with D&D and what all that would entail. Dame Aylin is what would be known as a "quasi-deity"- the direct child of a deity carries in themselves a Divine Shard, functionally rendering them a Deity with a Divine Rank of 0. This extends a range of abilities to the creature, but the one we're most interested in is the Mid-Godly regeneration that any creature with a Divine Rank enjoys.

He doesn't have godly regen in this key on his profile. I feel like that should be included in his profile if he has that.

Going off what you said I'm assuming that if magic in general is 4-D in DND, then Madara would be screwed if Kethric hits any soul hax on him. Madara's precog and speed amps should be useful here as from what I can see Kethric has to actually hit Madara to use his soul manipulation. Susanno would be pretty useful for this also since it's essentially a big forcefield made of chakra.

I'm leaning toward Madara rn as it seems like Kethric has to land a Smite (which to my knowledge is a melee spell) to kill him and as soon as Madara enters his Susano that essentially becomes impossible for him since Madara's susaano is huge and has a higher durability than Kethrics AP. Madara on the other hand, can just seal Kethric in a chibaku tensei.
Ketheric's soul hax isn't an instant kill. It's a bit complicated, because D&D is first and foremost a game- but the damage Ketheric deals is to the soul, but it is not something that immediately annihilates it. Generally speaking it should be viewed as a way to bypass traditional durability and to damage souls for those who require it- it does kill targets faster than without, but it's not a trump card, one feels.

Sealing wouldn't work unless it was greater than Ketheric's 4-D resistance to it. It's far from comprehensive but currently accepted general resistances of D&D can be found here. Anything listed here, Ketheric resists on a 4-D level. Again, I don't know much about Naruto, so it's plausible this match was made with that in mind, in which case we get to discuss layers. Otherwise, Ketheric can't be touched by these abilities.
I don’t recall ketheric using energy beyond the netherese stone, and even then that’s specific to the whole elder brain control. He might use it with his oathbreaker powers but I’m not sure how it meshes with Preta.
Divine smites have variously been considered energy depending on the description, although the more consistent representation is that the attack is simply blessed. I would suggest his force attacks are most certainly energy (albeit made of magic, I will assume verse equalization covers this).

Now, my suggestion outside of responses. Ketheric isn't a particularly flashy fighter in the context of this wiki. His main shtick is that he will attack people in melee for huge amounts of damage via divine smites, and he will attack often. At a range he tends to prefer the aforementioned force attack. It's worth noting that Ketheric transforms into the Apostle of Myrkul by right of being his Chosen- this introduces a number of complications, among them that the Apostle of Myrkul is abstract in its physiology, which can make fights essentially impossible should his opponent be unable to hit him.

Incapacitation aside, killing Ketheric Thorm requires two extraordinary caveats to be fulfilled over the usual:
  • Dame Aylin must be freed from her Soul Cage. Killing her is also acceptable. While she is typically Low 6-B just as Ketheric is, she is extremely weakened while within the Soul Cage, and does not have access to her abilities; it would be a fairly easy task to kill her or free her, provided one could reach her within the Shadowfell.
  • The Apostle of Myrkul must be destroyed following Ketheric's first "death".

It is not my intent to contribute to this match much, for what I hope are obvious reasons. I aim to clarify and little more.
 
His apostle state is limited here for the sake of it being a fair fight, if I believed madara would've stood a chance against it I wouldn't make it just base Ketheric here given he lacks a way to kill mid godly beings or interact with type 1 abstracts.
 
I see. If the match is not intended to be added, I suppose that's fine, then. Carry on.
 
Sealing wouldn't work unless it was greater than Ketheric's 4-D resistance to it. It's far from comprehensive but currently accepted general resistances of D&D can be found here. Anything listed here, Ketheric resists on a 4-D level. Again, I don't know much about Naruto, so it's plausible this match was made with that in mind, in which case we get to discuss layers. Otherwise, Ketheric can't be touched by these abilities.

That's fair, but Madara doesn't seal the typical way with chibaku tensei. It's more akin to gravity manipulation than straight-up sealing. He crushes you into the center of a planetoid and leaves you in there.
 
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The obvious thing is that Ketheric's abilities operate on a 4-D scale. I state this now, and presume that Naruto also has that. If it doesn't, then problems arise. Given that Ketheric isn't actually a hax god, I don't think this would intrinsically make this a stomp (although any of Madara's hax would not work on Ketheric, given his wide range of resistances- it would need to be very niche indeed, or be 4-D and layered significantly).
Naruto verse does not have 4-D stuff
 
I can't right now, because I'm at work, but that's more or less what Imprisonment (the spell) does in 3.5e. This is within the 3.5e SRD, if you feel like checking
So I googled it and found this:
When you cast imprisonment and touch a creature, it is entombed in a state of suspended animation (see the temporal stasis spell) in a small sphere far beneath the surface of the earth. The subject remains there unless a freedom spell is cast at the locale where the imprisonment took place.
This doesn't seem to work similarly to chibaku tensei aside from the whole "trapped in a sphere" thing.
 
Aight, I guess. I don't mean to be rude, but I don't really care about Naruto VS matches and it doesn't tend to work as you're suggesting it does anyways. He resists the sealing, you guys do with that as you will. I've overstayed my ordained time here.
 
Chibaku tensei is kinda specific in nature as it's not casting a sealing spell, but moreso making a giant meteor via the surrounding earth iirc. So less sealing spell and moreso he's quite literally burying you alive in a lot of rock and dirt.
 
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