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Lucifer Morningstar VS The Thought Robot

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So are the monitors. They aren't even close to Lucifer. Also this

The monitors are immensely below Mandrakk and TR. Lucifer is also immensely below the might of The Presence. That statement is inherently wrong because the overvoid is way stronger than DC's God.
 
The monitors are immensely below Mandrakk and TR. Lucifer is also immensely below the might of The Presence. That statement is inherently wrong because the overvoid is way stronger than DC's God.
Lmfao, we have no idea how strong the Overvoid is what with the recent "Oversphere" thing about. Recently.

But the idea that Mandrakk and TR would supplant Lucifer just because they are the extensions of the Overvoid is absurd. Perpetua, and her sons are basically the same and yet all of these entities are only around Source Wall level, are literally contained by Destiny of the Endless while Lucifer and Michael have manipulated separated creations across the Void.

Don't tell me you are basing your arguments from the same people who say that Rox Ogama killed the Presence.
 
Lucifer has Transduality because he transcends the Endless and all of creation, which includes the Monitor Sphere. Type 3 would be my bet, but I'm not too sure.
 
The problem is, the Overvoid* isn't The Presence's creation and is confirmed to be above him. So even half of it (in Thought Robot) would stomp on Lucifer.
 
LordUrien935 said:
??? The Multiversity Map shows that Destiny is above Monitor Sphere, and Lucifer is far above Destiny.
Click to expand...
The overvoid is an expression of the writers, which in turn The Presence states he is not above. How is this anything but a stomp for Thought Robot?
 
There's a note for this on The Presence's page.

Note 1: The Presence has stated that he was shaped by external forces, apparently intended to be the beliefs and imaginations of humanity, rather than a 4th Wall reference to the writers or real-world humans. This concept was introduced in The Sandman: A Dream of a Thousand Cats, which depicts that originally cats were the dominant species on Earth, being giant beasts which hunted humans. However, the collected dream of a world where humans ruled over cats altered reality from it's very beginning, making it so that humans were always larger than cats
 
I mean I know it looks exactly like destiny but the name over his head is overvoid. So I don't know.
 
Grant Morrison stated on a draft version of the Map that it IS destiny.

Furthermore, the Overvoid has an "ending" according to Perpetua, where the Source Judges preside. So careful when you're flinging these huge statements around.
 
Hykuu said:
Of course I would provide scans, anyone who actually reads the comics who post scans
"lucifer is a reincarnation of the great evil beast" lmaooo, no idea what that guy was on about
Click to expand...
He is probably talking about the New Lucifer Series. Vishnu shows all forms of Lucifer one of which was a giant hand that resembled the hand of Great Evil Beast.
EelB5CKegCiWYrRLHD8 qM-i-ElxBvOQzVI6lEdUwQnIrnsQR4tGNTRzAFfVxMpa BQZbDIk02n0eqKDA16 R5PdrkIaYwk9Rn8FH3lCzj20FvFe7rv9uMUDcQP21bgnCc5vm0zTGA=s1600
Screenshot 20191026-133644 Gallery
Screenshot 20191026-133648 Gallery
 
Lucifer also says that he used to be the shadow to the Presence. Darkness to Presence's light.
Screenshot 20191026-133651 Gallery
 
LordUrien935 said:
Are you talking about The Presence saying "but even I was shaped by forces external to me. You know what they are"
Click to expand...
Also, why are we ignoring the fact that Lucifer says he is omnipotent and he says, "Yes. True I am infinite and eternal.." Everybody just latches on to ths shaped by external forces part and ignores everything Mike Carey has implied about the Presence.
 
Hykuu said:
wait when did perpetua say that
Click to expand...
When she threatened the Raptor that she would come to the "END OF THE VOID" and rip its Masters apart. Meaning the Source Judges are either in a dimension transcending the Void's boundary/top of it. Either this means the Source > Overvoid or whatever. Makes sense considering that Perpetua rips pieces of the Overvoid then the Overvoid created the Nil Monitors as a defensive response.
 
By My Neck said:
Grant Morrison stated on a draft version of the Map that it IS destiny.

Furthermore, the Overvoid has an "ending" according to Perpetua, where the Source Judges preside. So careful when you're flinging these huge statements around.
Click to expand...
I mean you can see on the map that his chain is poking through into nil implying that's where Perpetua created the monitors and where the TR/Mandrakk came from. I don't know if destiny has been referenced with a solid connection to nil before. Has anyone seen that?
 
I mean either way lucifer wins because the thought robot is the concept of the good side always winning, where his adaptability comes from, and lucifer transcends dichotomy.
 
@By My Neck that's nearly as dumb (not from you, but from the comic) as the monitor seeing beyond the void

I hope DC retcons this event out of existence
 
Hykuu said:
@By My Neck that's nearly as dumb (not from you, but from the comic) as the monitor seeing beyond the void
I hope DC retcons this event out of existence
Click to expand...
DC is merely adding new 1-A hierarchies with every new addition of Cosmology since new writers of DC like to make new 1-As who are stronger than the previous.

Morrison did it, Snyder is just the next phase and there will be more after the latter.

With it, DC's 1-A power gets stronger. And this will continue forever.
 
Hykuu said:
@By My Neck that's nearly as dumb (not from you, but from the comic) as the monitor seeing beyond the void

I hope DC retcons this event out of existence
Click to expand...
Tbh, Only Morrison sees Overvoid as this paper. His story itself had a soft retcon in the last isaue when Superman used the MiracleMachine and literally wished the Monitors along with Monitor sphere away. Nix Uotan became human and Mandrakk survived because he fill into the Dark Multiverse. Snyder used this event to change the story. Now, Overvoid is no longer paper but the same void that DC has used for decades. Source is the boundless, infinite energy of Presence that DC has been using for decades that was later formed to a single entity we see on Vertigo. Shaped by the collective dream of humanity. That's how I see atleast.
 
By My Neck said:
This is how DC's God Tier 0 works.

Presence > Source > Overvoid > Presence

Wait what? How can one be superior to itself?
Click to expand...
The same way Satya Vishnu>Narayan>MahaVishnu>Vishnu
 
Does that mean DC's Tier 0 is an Infinitely Layered Paradox?

DC has always been paradoxical. It follows the Biblical explanation creation along with scientific IIRC. Lucifer= Great Evil Beast now but he is still Morningstar. Also, Overvoid> Presence is not something I have seen before.
 
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