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Sort of, this thread won't be concluded until someone makes a coherent and logical argument.DMB 1 said:
Also, you should just have let this thread to die off.
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Lucifer Morningstar vs Randolph Carter
- Thread starter Jman8009
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Also, you should just have let this thread to die off.
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Well, the Void isn't simply a normal timeless void.Being in the Void isn't a baseline 1-A if you exist in the Void you exists beyond all levels of existence and nonexistenceMasterOfArda said:
If we've got a scale or level of "Timeless voids" then The Void would be at the highest level, given that it is beyond all existence and non-existence.
In Lucifer, it was shown that anything in the Void would be multiplied into infinity because "something" in the middle of nothing became will the center of focus.This also applies to Creations and also 1-As (Shown when there are multiple versions of Lucifer in the Void), so you can think of the Void as a void beyond voids.
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Ok, sorry for necroing it.Just can't resist the temptation.
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Mind me for necroing after Sandman's necro, but I think this puts him further above baseline 1-A than Randolph. Unless Randolph has some sort of protection keeping Lucifer from defeating him, or I am misinformed and Randolph is for some reason higher, then Lucifer would win.AndrewBennet said:
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Than an Archetype?TheHadouCyberspaceWitch said:
That's definitely not enough.
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How far above baseline is Randolph as an Archetype?
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He's not "Yog's right hand man" or something like that. He's an Archetype. One closely linked to Yog (who is the "supreme archetype"), but still one of an untold amount.
In layman's terms, he's a "thing" from which all lesser beings in existence are "cut", just as one could cut a square from a cube, a cube from a tesseract, and so on for infinity.
In layman's terms, he's a "thing" from which all lesser beings in existence are "cut", just as one could cut a square from a cube, a cube from a tesseract, and so on for infinity.
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It sounds to me like he's a degree of infinity above baseline 1-A, though I may be wrong. This would likely make him above Lucifer Morningstar, if that's the correct interpretation, unless there's something about Lucifer that I'm missing.
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That's harder to say, because conceptually, Archetypes are at such a point that just going "I am this much stronger" becomes an irrelevant idea.TheHadouCyberspaceWitch said:
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But that just sounds like a more strung out way of being one degree of infinity above baseline. ;-;
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Yeah, things get tough, at that point.
When Carter goes through the first Gate, the world of the Ancient Ones functions as some sort of undimensioned higher reality, but after passing through the Ultimate Gate, he instead enters the world of the Archetypes, from which everything is cut.
The story also presents a fundamental difference between just being "undimensioned" and beyond any dimensions man could conceive the idea of, and being completely beyond all conceptions of size, boundaries, and being, as the Archetypes are, and inhabiting a fully immutable world where you view existence as it truly is; an unchanging thing beyond perspective.
The inhabitants of the latter world are played more as ideas than characters. Carter even notes that the conceptions cults of Earth have about Yog-Sothoth are just as fractional and broken as any other, for no limited being could truly describe something of unlimited self.
In short, it's weird.
When Carter goes through the first Gate, the world of the Ancient Ones functions as some sort of undimensioned higher reality, but after passing through the Ultimate Gate, he instead enters the world of the Archetypes, from which everything is cut.
The story also presents a fundamental difference between just being "undimensioned" and beyond any dimensions man could conceive the idea of, and being completely beyond all conceptions of size, boundaries, and being, as the Archetypes are, and inhabiting a fully immutable world where you view existence as it truly is; an unchanging thing beyond perspective.
The inhabitants of the latter world are played more as ideas than characters. Carter even notes that the conceptions cults of Earth have about Yog-Sothoth are just as fractional and broken as any other, for no limited being could truly describe something of unlimited self.
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I have doubt, though. That guy is like Multi-Outerversal.
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I know, it was a joke. But seriously, he's "at least Outerversal", and that indicates that he's possibly higher than Outerversal, meaning that he's possibly High Outerversal.
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The Overvoid, like I said isn't simply just an undimensioned space, even other Outerversal Realms are nothing when you're in the Overvoid.The Overvoid is beyond everything, it is a pure white emptiness that represents a blank page, not just an undimensioned "space" but the blank page itself
The idea being that the Overvoid ― as we called it in Final Crisis - of the white page as 'a' space- Grant Morrison
Everything, even 1-As, and outerversal realms are just drawings on it.Lucifer may also be a drawing but he is a drawing who can "escape" into that "blank page"
The idea being that the Overvoid ― as we called it in Final Crisis - of the white page as 'a' space- Grant Morrison
Everything, even 1-As, and outerversal realms are just drawings on it.Lucifer may also be a drawing but he is a drawing who can "escape" into that "blank page"
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So are we trying to quantify both Lucifer's power and Randolph's power using the fact that they both can go where all things basically originated from after the tier 0 and tier High 1-A(s)?
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That's not remotely how they work.ProspectX said:
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It's not really a "who", but more of a "what".
Also, "gates" are not characters. They are just what Carter passes through during Through the Gates of the Silver Key.
Also, "gates" are not characters. They are just what Carter passes through during Through the Gates of the Silver Key.
ABoogieYesSir
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Lucifer Morningstar via mind manipulation.
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Mind me, but I can't help but to laugh at that one.
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Sidious mindhax
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Luke Skywalker throws his Mind Tricks.
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Can we please stay on topic?
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