Lucemon Vs Lucifer (SMT)

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Hmmm. Seeing as Fate is the master of debates revolving this stuff and saves me the effort of writing another long reply. Inconclusive as well.

 

[PaChi2]

Im voting inconclusive too.

Edit: @SMT fans, does this mean that Golden Mr Clean stomps Lucemon?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So these two rival each other so much that they don't even allow each other to lose. ovo

 

[Executor_N0]

So I also go with inconclusive.

 

[Huesito88]

Maybe after they fight for a while they realize they are the exact same person and that neither can kill each other so they fuse into one being =p

 

[PaChi2]

Lucifermon sounds awful.

 

[Executor_N0]

And this really is possible since Lucemon can use living beings as material and with that become one with them. The possibilities with these two together would be so interesting

 

[FateAlbane]

And this really is possible since Lucemon can use living beings as material and with that become one with them. The possibilities with these two together would be so interesting

And SMT has Demon Fusion to merge demons into more powerful ones.

...

The more we look at this, the more they sound like the same person.

Also, Lucifer is never there when Lucemon appears, just like Clark Kent and Superman.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Fate The truth has been revealed....He must go into a nonexistent phone booth to change. ovo

 

[PaChi2]

Do the upgrades help Lucemon here? Or stilll inconclusive.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Well, I dunno. I don't think much changes.

 

[FateAlbane]

Nothing changes, since the discussion got to this point taking the upgrades into account (or at least the more significant ones).

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Well we never counted the speed of Lucemon's resurrection. ovo

It changes nothing since even Krishna came back fast after his defeat.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Lucifer was killed by Aleph in Shin Megami Tensei II but if you do a New Game+ you get a secret scene with Lucifer where he mentions that you killed both him and YHVH, but actually the only thing that was killed was the Lucifer that existed in that moment. Lucifer exists eternally so the only way to kill him is to kill him eternally.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

And guess whose eternal as well.....sigh...they are the same...

 

[PaChi2]

Vote inconclusive, matt, put an end to this fight!

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Inconclusive reasons above.

 

[PaChi2]

that makes 6

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

And guess whose eternal as well.....sigh...they are the same...

Just so we are on the same page, before I agree to this.

Can you list the 2-A scaling for Lucemon?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

No prob.

- It usually takes 2 or more Royal Knights to face one Demon Lord. Lucemon is astronomically stronger than the other Demon Lords.

- Each of these knights are at least scaled to Mother Eater who could casually reset the entire multiverse as a basic attack.

- Fought Taiga's WarGreymo who fought and defeated Death-X-Mo and an upgraded Yggdrasil avatar as well as easily killing Daemo (Who needs a Reigitize key), who had since absorbed the powers of the other Seven Great Demon Lords, with a single blow despite being vastly weakened physically and mentally after being trapped and tortured in his Rookie Form, Can Digivolve into Satan Mode which is so immensely above his previous form to the point that it was impossible for Taiga who had been powered up by rina to defeat, requiring the help of the Three Great Angels to weaken him to the point where they could even stand a chance at defeating him.

-X Antibody Knights (Who Taiga fought) are so much stronger than their base form that the base form cannot even compare.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

That's some pretty high-end stuff.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Yep, that's why he's Digimon's strongest 2-A.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Also one last thing. The power of the 3 Great Angels (Cherubimo, Ophanimo and Seraphimo) are actually 1/3 of the power of Kid Lucemo (The Rookie form). They just need Reigitize keys.

 

[Executor_N0]

I do not think every member of the TGA is 1/3 of Lucemon, just a tiny fragment of Lucemon to create the Seraphimon (Digimon World Re: Digitize Decode). Although they are powerful I think even the three of them together are not able to face Lucemon (Child).

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Well I said 1/3 seeing as the official databook did say his power was split amongst them. But, I guess it didn't actually say all his power.

 

[PaChi2]

bump, we are missing one vote

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Dragon

I'm going to try to explain Lucifer's power the same way you explained Lucemon's.

• The full entity of Kagutsuchi administers the cycle of creation and destruction across the multiverse and the existence of time in said multiverse, creating and destroying billions of universes every second and each of the infinite universes having an endless cycle of death and rebirth.
• Kagutsuchi is an Avatar of YHVH, and one of the weakest generally. There are other Avatars which should be on its level or higher, such as Shaddai, Elohim, Sabaoth and the Ancient of Days.
• It is notable that these Avatars should be stronger than the Fake YHVH created by Michael, Uriel and Raphael's faith, who himself is much stronger than Michael who is likely a Baseline 2-A.
• All of these Avatars should be much weaker than Metatron, who is YHVH's primary avatar and his Voice, and is described as the "Mightiest Warrior of Light" by Lucifer himself.
• Metatron himself is worthless compared to the Demiurge, with the Demiurge being considered the Embodiment of YHVH's power vs Metatron being the Embodiment of YHVH's will, and the Demiurge casually stomps Metatron
• Lucifer is arguably stronger than both in his regular Bishounen form, as he is typically described as the angel closest to God, but in his Demon King form in SMT IV, he considers the Demiurge to be worthless, describing him as "A mere Divine Spirit".

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So pretty much this.

Michael<<<Fake YHVH<<<Kagu<Other Avatars<<<<<<<Metatron<<<<<<<<Demiurge<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Lucifer

For Lucemon (Executor can correct me if I mess up)

Base Royal Knights<<<Base Demon Lords=Three Great Angels<<<Base Kid Lucemon< or = X-Antibody Knights and Mother Eater= Dexmon=Alphamon<<Powered up Yggdrasil<Taiga's WarGreymon<Powered Up Daemon<<<<<<<<Heavily Weakneded Falldown Mode Lucemon<<<<<<Fully Powered Falldown Lucemon<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Satan Mode Lucemon.

I'm sure I mesed something up here.

 

[MugenRyu]

Base Royal Knights<<<Base Demon Lords=Three Great Angels<<<Base Kid Lucemon< or = X-Antibody Knights and Mother Eater= Dexmon=Alphamon<<Powered up Yggdrasil<Taiga's WarGreymo<<<<<Powered Up Barbamon<<<<<<Daemon<<<<<<Powered Up Daemo<<<<<<<<Heavily Weakneded Falldown Mode Lucemon<<<<<<Fully Powered Falldown Lucemon<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Satan Mode Lucemon.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Well, you can also consider Ouroboros who is 2-A and is also the weakest of the Mother Goddesses, and then you can also consider than Mother Harlot and Amaterasu would qualify as Mother Goddesses do to their side-quests and the Lucifer scaling grows considerably.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

How strong are the Mother Goddesses when compared to Michael or Kagu?

 

[PaChi2]

Just to be sure, are you guys trying to gauge who is the stronger 2-A?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

AP-wise yes.

 

[PaChi2]

Alrighty, but I dont think AP makes that great of a difference here.

@OP You didnt count Bre8k's vote.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Base Royal Knights<<<Base Demon Lords=Three Great Angels<<<Base Kid Lucemon< or = X-Antibody Knights= Dexmon=Nokia's Omegamon and Arata's Diaboromon and Yuuko's Gaiomo<<Powered up Yggdrasil<Taiga's WarGreymo<<<<<Powered Up Barbamon<Takumi and Cyber Sleuth Alphamon<<Mother Eater<<<Daemon<<<<<<Powered Up Daemo<<<<<<<<Heavily Weakneded Falldown Mode Lucemon<<<<<<Fully Powered Falldown Lucemon<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Satan Mode Lucemon.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's also worth noting that Kagutsuchi's Avatars in each universe are likely 2-A scaling from Michael.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Also to specify. All the guys I mentioned are also 2-A.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Inconclusive.

 

[PaChi2]

And, with that, we reached 7. This can be added.

 

[MugenRyu]

@Dragon How is Takumi above Powered Up Barbamon? didn't the barbamon he fought only have UlforceVeedramon's power, I'm mean still a powered up Barbamon just not anywhere near the same scale as he was in Re Digitize.