Low 6-B Bone Crusher Tournament: Group B - Diamondhead (Ben 10) vs Dorian Frog (Tower of God)

[Greenshifter]

DD has a point, there is a difference between hardness, density and impact resistance.

Also does that sound wave thing scale to low 6-B?

Edit: aaaaaand they said stronger than steel in the scan. Nvm

 

[DemonicDude]

9-C D head lol.

Lol it's from here

 

[Lynieryz]

who has more stamina?

: Very high (Rankers should still have superior stamina to Baam in his base)

Stamina: High in base (Diamond defeated Queen Bee, the Alien Chef trio, and the Ground Hawg Gang in three separate gladiatorial matches) Very High in his Omni-Kix form defeated all three Weatherheads at once.)

 

[Lynieryz]

does the diamond guy resist the effects of shinsoo?

 

[DemonicDude]

does the diamond guy resist the effects of shinsoo?

Can you give some examples of Shinsoo effects

 

[Lynieryz]

I'm lazy

Shinsoo

Shinsoo is a substance that flows through the Tower. Each Floor has areas of varying amounts of shinsoo density, increasing with each Floor. In lower concentrations, its density makes the substance act like a gas, but in higher concentrations, it behaves like a liquid. At different times...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Shinsoo Abilities​

The average abilities are guaranteed through the shinsoo control of individuals with considerable affinity with shinsoo, although they can be considered normal powers, not all Regulars have them, some of them are:

• Minor Matter Immobilization: Depending on how much shinsoo can be controlled against the enemy, the user is able to hinder the walk of the opponent.
• Energy Manipulation/Energy Density: By controlling shinsoo, the people can control its very high density.
• Homing Attack: Shinsoo users can control the direction their shinsoo should go without looking directly at the target.
• Danmaku: Shinsoo users cancreate multiple baangs that can attack omnidirectionally.
• Forcefield Creation: The users are able to create barriers with shinsoo.

Advanced Shinsoo Abilities​

Some of the advanced abilities guaranteed to people who become Rankers, High Rankers and a few exceptions of Regulars that have certain intensive training are:

• Immortality (Type 1): The people who become Rankers end up creating a much greater affinity with shinsoo, then obtaining the eternal youth.
• Molecular Immobilization: The users are able to reverse shinsoo flow, which eventually stop its opponent movement.
• Accelerated Development (Passive) :The users end up gaining the ability to get stronger as they get older over time.

Specific Shinsoo Abilities​

These are specific abilities that, for example, the Regulars may possess, but certain Rankers and High Rankers may not or vice-versa, some of them are:

• Limited Vibration Manipulation: The users can cause vibrations in the body of his target through the shock of shinsoo.
• Limited Durability Negation: The users can explosions that happen inside the body using the Piercing Techniques, so they ignore conventional durability;

 

[Greenshifter]

who has more stamina?

I mean the justification for very high for DH is pretty bad, however he is inorganic so it’s not like his muscles will tire out.

 

[DemonicDude]

I'll look into it once I'll get back heading out for something right now.....
Energy Manip gets absorbed and shot back, Being immobilized get's resisted by Paralysis resistance, Can Make forcefields just by pointing too, Regen prevents DH dying and his Omni-Kix armor should be enough durable to tank limited vibration attacks.

 

[DemonicDude]

I mean the justification for very high for DH is pretty bad, however he is inorganic so it’s not like his muscles will tire out.

Took down amplified Hex and stomped all three Weatherheads.

 

[Lynieryz]

I'll look into it once I'll get back heading out for something right now.....
Energy Manip gets absorbed and shot back, Being immobilized get's resisted by Paralysis resistance, Can Make forcefields just by pointing too, Regen prevents DH dying and his Omni-Kix armor should be enough durable to tank limited vibration attacks.

well, the immobilization is at the molecular level isn't it?

 

[Arceus0x]

Dorian doesn't use those moves in character though nothig stops him from doing so, however paralysis is different.

Immob is complete molecular immobilization, not just simple paralysis. He ain't gonna use it though.

Anyways sound waves scale to low 6-B easily

 

[Greenshifter]

Took down amplified Hex and stomped all three Weatherheads.

That’s not really a stamina feat, stamina is endurance + damage resistance. DH doesn’t really have to deal with either since he times out after 10 minutes and his regen and inorganic physiology make damage resistance pretty obsolete.

 

[Arceus0x]

So overall, couldn't Dorian just outlast him? Their Ap is pretty equal and he can just generally restrict most movement and evade using flight and mucus.

 

[DemonicDude]

When it comes to sound wave, Ben is wearing Omni-Kix armor it depends on the armor whether it can tank sound waves which is what the armor has shown to do against powerful amplified sound attacks of Lord Decibals which failed against Slapback

 

[Lynieryz]

Dorian doesn't use those moves in character though nothig stops him from doing so, however paralysis is different.

Immob is complete molecular immobilization, not just simple paralysis. He ain't gonna use it though.

Anyways sound waves scale to low 6-B easily

well i thought immob was something basic for rankers and that in a critical or boring situation any of them would be willing to use it and it just isn't used constantly because most characters resist through their own shinsoo manipulation, but mine memory is horrible so that could be it too.

 

[Arceus0x]

Well he could use it if he is in critical condition. He just doesn't use it in character.

Either way Dorian can also shoot Mucus with bangs, basically creating mucus energy blasts. He could also trick DH via a sneak attack, like leaving some mucus on him and then later expanding it into a giant mucus trap

 

[DemonicDude]

DH uses stealth attacks too with his Type 6 making decoy body in this form.
Not to mention Ben has Supernatural Willpower to resist from the traps as you can see on his Profile

Ben Tennyson (Reboot)

Ben's the name, turning alien is my game.Ben Benjamin Kirby "Ben" Tennyson was a normal ten-year-old kid until he found the Omnitrix, a powerful watch-like device that allows him to turn into ten different aliens. Though immature and clumsy, he uses the Omnitrix to stop evil, but that doesn't...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Greenshifter]

So overall, couldn't Dorian just outlast him? Their Ap is pretty equal and he can just generally restrict most movement and evade using flight and mucus.

Meh like I said before, it’s not like DH’s non-existent muscles will tire. Mentally he might but Ben’s got pretty huge willpower.

like leaving some mucus on him and then later expanding it into a giant mucus trap

Oh if that’s a thing he can do where he just expands a small amount of mucus on DH’s body into a trap that does sound like gg.

 

[Arceus0x]

I mean he did that to the hell train which is like over a kilometer tall

 

[Lynieryz]

Well he could use it if he is in critical condition. He just doesn't use it in character.

Either way Dorian can also shoot Mucus with bangs, basically creating mucus energy blasts. He could also trick DH via a sneak attack, like leaving some mucus on him and then later expanding it into a giant mucus trap

well what i meant is there's no way of knowing if that's out of character as the enemies he's faced resist immob through their shinsoo manipulation, so there just wouldn't be a reason for him to immob.

 

[DemonicDude]

One more thing I want to mention is all aliens who are wearing Omni-Kix Armor which is generated by Omnitrix
As such Slapback who is not an energy user at all uses it to defeat Lord Decibal by making an energy attack, Since the Armor itself is standard for all aliens there's no reason to assume the energy wouldn't work for Omni Kix Diamondhead

 

[Lynieryz]

complete molecular immobilization and mucus danmaku, each of the mucus can be expanded, my vote goes to frogboy.

 

[Arceus0x]

Yes, as stated, i vote for my man dorian.

 

[DemonicDude]

complete molecular immobilization and mucus danmaku, each of the mucus can be expanded, my vote goes to frogboy.

Alright so this mucus expands on his body biologically harming him right ?

• Biological Resistance: The Omnitrix can repair mutated DNA and terraformed planets, as shown when Azmuth used it to revert Alien V back into Vilgax and restore Earth which was corrupted by Vilgax and saved it by reverting it to it's original state (Which is Planetary scale)

This is automatic much like most Omnitrix abilites (If not then Ben has learned how to use it by asking Azmuth how to use shortcuts to past the limit of 10 aliens with that knowledgble on his disposal seeing Azmuth use it infront of him he should be able to use it if not then Omnitrix fail safe kicks in) such as

• Making an armor for the user
• Protecting him if anything interfere with the device

Planetary Biological manip + Paralysis Resist + Supernatural Willpower = Overcoming the mucus

 

[Lynieryz]

Alright so this mucus expands on his body biologically harming him right ?

• Biological Resistance: The Omnitrix can repair mutated DNA and terraformed planets, as shown when Azmuth used it to revert Alien V back into Vilgax and restore Earth which was corrupted by Vilgax and saved it by reverting it to it's original state (Which is Planetary scale)

This is automatic much like most Omnitrix abilites (If not then Ben has learned how to use it by asking Azmuth how to use shortcuts to past the limit of 10 aliens with that knowledgble on his disposal seeing Azmuth use it infront of him he should be able to use it if not then Omnitrix fail safe kicks in) such as

• Making an armor for the user
• Protecting him if anything interfere with the device

Planetary Biological manip + Paralysis Resist + Supernatural Willpower = Overcoming immobilization.

for him to resist immob he would have to resist manipulation of matter, which if I'm not mistaken is above baseline.

 

[DemonicDude]

for him to resist immob he would have to resist manipulation of matter, which if I'm not mistaken is above baseline.

It's Out of character for him to use it, DH outskills before he has the chance & Biological manipulation from Omnitrix protects him from the mucus

 

[Lynieryz]

It's Out of character for him to use it, DH outskills before he has the chance & Biological manipulation from Omnitrix protects him from the mucus

it's not out of character, it's unknown, but following the general behavior of the rankers (it's the only thing that can indicate something about it) he would use it as soon as the fight gets boring and how the diamond guy will outskill him if he is ten kilometers in the air spamming danmaku.

 

[Lynieryz]

It's Out of character for him to use it, DH outskills before he has the chance & Biological manipulation from Omnitrix protects him from the mucus

and biological manipulation won't stop the damage the mucus will do, it will just keep it from expanding INSIDE him.

 

[ImNot4nUser]

Being immobilized get's resisted by Paralysis resistance

Baseline Paralysis resistance ain't going to do much to the level of potency that TOG paralysis inducement works at...
Also depends on the kind of paralysis, since their paralysis is via molecular immobilization.

Also highly doubt Dorian Frog has a lot of them(dura neg, immobilization).

 

[Lynieryz]

Baseline Paralysis resistance ain't going to do much to the level of potency that TOG paralysis inducement works at...
Also depends on the kind of paralysis, since their paralysis is via molecular immobilization.

Also highly doubt Dorian Frog has a lot of them(dura neg, immobilization).

well, he sure has immob, because unlike dura neg immob is something every shinsoo user has above a certain shinsoo level.

 

[ImNot4nUser]

well, he sure has immob, because unlike dura neg immob is something every shinsoo user has above a certain shinsoo level.

I mean, if you mean some immob like the kind done by simply putting to much shinsu Lero ro style, then yeah sure, but he isn't a Reverse Flow Control user, which is a more defined form of immobilization by stopping the molecules within someone in their tracks

 

[Lynieryz]

I mean, if you mean some immob like the kind done by simply putting to much shinsu Lero ro style, then yeah sure, but he isn't a Reverse Flow Control user, which is a more defined form of immobilization by stopping the molecules within someone in their tracks

No, i'm talking about the reverse flow control, Quant Blitz which claims to be the weakest ranker on the test floor is able to use RFC, there's just no reason for frogboy to be unable to do that.

 

[ImNot4nUser]

No, i'm talking about the reverse flow control, Quant Blitz which claims to be the weakest ranker on the test floor is able to use RFC, there's just no reason for frogboy to be unable to do that.

because weakest has nothing to do with being able to use RFC, it's a technique ie: Practice. He specially took hundred of years to learn Fast Skip. Frog Boy didn't and is an anima.

Strenght will never be a reason to have certain shinsu abilities. because you could apply the same thing to Piercing Technique, it's a technique with a style, you learn them by practice, not strenght.

 

[Lynieryz]

because weakest has nothing to do with being able to use RFC, it's a technique ie: Practice. He specially took hundred of years to learn Fast Skip. Frog Boy didn't and is an anima.

Strenght will never be a reason to have certain shinsu abilities. because you could apply the same thing to Piercing Technique, it's a technique with a style, you learn them by practice, not strenght.

it only took decades to learn and he's a scout.

do you know which chapter he was said to be the weakest in? I want to see the original meaning.

그 짧은 시간 안에 그대로 신수를 흉내 낸다고? 그런게 가능할 리가 없지 !! 나도 배우는데 수 십년이 걸린 기술인데. 결국 내가 녀석에게 준 것은 뛰어 들어갈 수 있다는 자신감 뿐이야.

In that short amount of time, you're just mimicking a divine beast? That can't be possible!! It's a skill that took me decades to learn. In the end, all I gave him was the confidence to jump in.

 

[ImNot4nUser]

it only took decades to learn

sweet, I misremembered.

and he's a scout.

I know.

do you know which chapter he was said to be the weakest in? I want to see the original meaning.

I am reffering to this statement:

Quant Blitz which claims to be the weakest ranker on the test floor is able to use RFC, there's just no reason for frogboy to be unable to do that.

Shinsu is akin to martial arts, with different styles each with different techniques. You need to practice to learn it. So I ask, can you cite where it was stated this:

is something every shinsoo user has above a certain shinsoo level.

Because the same applies to Piercing technique, by that logic.
edit: aside of the fact that only FUG learns piercing technique ofc, I meant the different styles, this was just an example

 

[Lynieryz]

I will reply you later.

here is SIU characters cards made by himself to show the status of characters and among the rankers quant is the one that has the least control over shinsoo and for RFC the control over shinsoo and its flow is essential.

Character Cards

This page holds the stat cards SIU had released for each character. They have been deleted in unconfirmed time (with the exception of Lero-Ro and Yu Hang Sung Card in Official Naver Cafe). There has been a post from Official Naver Fan Cafe that said SIU deleted them after some stats had changed...

towerofgod.fandom.com

 

[Lynieryz]

Shinsu is akin to martial arts, with different styles each with different techniques. You need to practice to learn it. So I ask, can you cite where it was stated this:

Because the same applies to Piercing technique, by that logic.

Reverse-Flow Control is controlling Shinsu by forcefully changing, altering or reversing its flow.

any character who has control over shinsoo greater than Quant can use RFC and as the story progresses, the power level also increases, with Quant being the first ranker to actually demonstrate his battle skills and any other ranker that came after him was placed as superior in all aspects (cards) there is no reason to not assume that the other rankers are also superior.

 

[DemonicDude]

Bump

 

[ImNot4nUser]

snip

again, cite. Coz all of this is (technically) HC. Shinsu techniques is not something that just because you have a greater shinsu affinity you will be able to do all the technique's than the people with less shinsu affinity.(Unless you're Bam)

Also the fact that the cards were deleted and outdated don't help

 

[Lynieryz]

again, cite. Coz all of this is (technically) HC. Shinsu techniques is not something that just because you have a greater shinsu affinity you will be able to do all the technique's than the people with less shinsu affinity.(Unless you're Bam)

Also the fact that the cards were deleted and outdated don't help

not when RFC is literally controlling shinsu at the molecular level it's literally just about control and SIU never said anything about the cards being wrong he just stopped doing them, the cards keep saying all rankers control over shinsu >>> Quant and RFC is literally just control, there is no evidence that points to "only quant and whoever is shown can do that, because it's very difficult" in fact everything points to the opposite of that.