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Lord Revelation vs Atropus

Something something Atropus has Type 8 based on a literal multiverse-equivalent energy supply, passively spawns undead such as Atropals, and if Lord Revelation is a holy fellow (or worshipped) then Atropus' smurf power null pops into play.
 
Atropus is in his spot because it kills 2-As. It's a little specific about it, but nobody else besides Oryx is 5-C with that potential
 
Also true.
 
Wokistan said:
Atropus is in his spot because it kills 2-As. It's a little specific about it, but nobody else besides Oryx is 5-C with that potential
Click to expand...
Isn't the 2-A only against gods though?
 
Yes. It has abilities outside of that, of course, but the 2-A power null only affects those that would be defined as holy within the verse (i.e., gods or servants of gods). Like an angel would still be affected, just not so much as a god.
 
"god" is defined in a pretty broad way by D&D
 
Well, Revelation isn't classified as a god or anything holy, but he can use faith power through his gear, the Revelation Bell, not on his own though. Would that count?


As for this battle, there was not the slightest chance he could lose. He had brought the Revelation Bell, which had absorbed countless prayers and sacrifices from the State of Revelation. It was sentient already, his most valuable treasure. With this bell, even if he faced someone of the Third Severing, he would still be able to achieve victory. In addition to this, the Dawn Immortal had gifted him with a portion of his Spiritual Sense.
 
Yeah that'd qualify.
 
The Atropals seem manageable enough, although I guess it depends on what their hax can do, and how many there are.

The quote that explains the type 8 doesn't seem too expecific. How does that one work? Does it instantly bring him whole back to life, or does it take a while? Can it bring his soul back if its destroyed (He doesn't seem to have soul resist or mid-godly)?
 
Mr. Bambu said:
Yeah that'd qualify.
Click to expand...
Since the bell is sentient, shouldn't it target only the bell itself? It's another entity that Revelation is using to help him, but it's technically a separate being
 
He just can't die. Typically this means (in-verse) that he'd just reform from the Negative Energy Plane until its empty (which occurs when the multiverse is reduced to a lifeless husk).

Resistances often aren't on the profile, so forgive me when I say you're just gonna have to deal with me showing scans of resistances until we finish deciding what literally every character in D&D resists. Atropus resists soul hax, yes. Mid-Godly... wha? If you mean regen null then he's > the Atropals who neg Mid-Godly for breakfast.
 
How powerful is the soul hax that he resists?

I mentioned mid-godly to ask if the negative energy could bring his soul back if it was destroyed.
 
Oh. Yeah, much weaker energy sources can use Wish and Miracle, both of which can reform the soul.

He'd be laughably superior to the hax of Father Llymic whose presence chills the world, an effect that literally freezes/corrupts the soul until you become one of his weird ice monsters- this affects entire countries of people, and potentially the world. There's abiltiies like the aforementioned Atropals outright destroying the soul by devouring it and such, too, if you just mean "lol soul destruction".
 
Aren't those spells though? Can the energy source actively use a spell after his soul was destroyed?

Soul destruction is something pretty much anyone in his verse can do. I Shall Seal the Heavens treat the soul in a more of a "quality > quantity" way though, with the soul becoming stronger along with their regular power, and at a point they become able to survive just as a soul and fight with it on a similar level of their bodies.

Freezing the soul is something people far weaker than him can do as well, but that Father Llymic's stuff doesn't seem planetary from those quotes. His madness manip does seem to be at that level (maybe over time, since it doesn't specify), but the soul chill only seems to reference the weapons there. Revelation could probably pull a planetary soul attack, mostly because pretty much all his attacks can destroy the soul, and he does have the range to do it.
 
Spells pulled from an energy source. Yes.

I mean, good? That's what I was displaying that, yes, soul destruction exists and can be resisted and it has a scaling chain for said resistance (11 is baseline resistance, even Atropus' aspect is laughably above that number, Atropus' own stats are so ludicrously high that they didn't bother adding them).

Okay, again, cool. I realize soul manip exists, I'm pointing out that it exists here as well, and can be resisted. And as for Father. His soul hax affecting adventurers requires proximity and touch and such. His planetary range comes from his escape from his prison, which immediately spreads his cold to the literal entire world. That can be found here.

And this is still only a talk about Atropus resisting the abilities of homeboy. Keep in mind that during this time literal planetary amounts of undead of varying potency and abilities are rising to fight, with hax ranging from your aforementioned soul destruction to paralysis touch to stat reduction that kills to instant death hax and so on and so on lah-dee-dah-and-hum-bug
 
Mr. Bambu said:
Spells pulled from an energy source. Yes.
Click to expand...
Do you have an example of his negative energy source using a spell on its own?

Mr. Bambu said:
Okay, again, cool. I realize soul manip exists, I'm pointing out that it exists here as well, and can be resisted. And as for Father. His soul hax affecting adventurers requires proximity and touch and such. His planetary range comes from his escape from his prison, which immediately spreads his cold to the literal entire world. That can be found here.
Click to expand...
That shows that he can freeze the world, yes, but does all his of cold stuff affect the soul? If the soul hax itself requires proximity or touch, that's not as powerful as what Revelation can pull, at least not without affecting people with very powerful souls or soul resistance.

Mr. Bambu said:
And this is still only a talk about Atropus resisting the abilities of homeboy. Keep in mind that during this time literal planetary amounts of undead of varying potency and abilities are rising to fight, with hax ranging from your aforementioned soul destruction to paralysis touch to stat reduction that kills to instant death hax and so on and so on lah-dee-dah-and-hum-bug
Click to expand...
Revelation does have some ridiculous AoE, so any attack that hits Atropus should be hitting the summons as well, including the soul affects. He also has a pretty decent speed advantage over them in the speed unequalized round.
 
What? I didn't claim it would? What I said was that the Negative Energy Plane has more power than it requires to use Wish or Miracle, both of which can revive the soul (since that's literally how it is calculated, the power needed to achieve the effect). The statement is just "Atropus literally cannot die unless this power source is depleted".

Implied that his cold does so, and merely the touch is needed for stronger creatures like adventurers. Then again we've established quantity isn't the point though, according to you, so I don't see the line of reasoning for this anymore tbh.

...I mean, cool. That doesn't mean they aren't all constantly presenting a problem and literally a touch from a fodder ghoul paralyzes. Unless homie literally begins nuking the planet then I don't see how that's not a problem when they come from underneath him.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
What? I didn't claim it would? What I said was that the Negative Energy Plane has more power than it requires to use Wish or Miracle, both of which can revive the soul (since that's literally how it is calculated, the power needed to achieve the effect). The statement is just "Atropus literally cannot die unless this power source is depleted".
Click to expand...
I asked if the Negative Energy could heal his soul, you said that weaker energy sources can use Wish and Miracle, that does heavily imply you meant that it could use those spells as well.

Anyhow, aren't Wish and Miracle active spells that can control reality to an extent? I don't see how just being more powerful means the Negative Plane can heal his soul, when, to do so, certain specific spells are required, and it seems they even have several functions, not just to heal the soul.

Having a huge energy source shouldn't necessarily mean that it can do the same thing as those spells. What I'm asking is any instance of this energy restoring destroyed souls, vague statements like being unable to die don't say much, really.


Mr. Bambu said:
Implied that his cold does so, and merely the touch is needed for stronger creatures like adventurers. Then again we've established quantity isn't the point though, according to you, so I don't see the line of reasoning for this anymore tbh.
Click to expand...
If all his cold does, shouldn't he have instantly killed all the regular people on the planet as soon as spread it out and dropped the temperature? Like, did he . . .

Okay, how powerful are the souls Llymic that freeze? Revelation can destroye Nascent Souls and Divinities, the souls of powerful Cultivators like him. They have some pretty decent soul resistance, even some of the weakest fodder on the verse can destroy souls, and they're very far above them. They can teleport, control the world around them, and use power similar to their regular selves, so destroying 5-C souls isn't really below him.

Mr. Bambu said:
...I mean, cool. That doesn't mean they aren't all constantly presenting a problem and literally a touch from a fodder ghoul paralyzes. Unless homie literally begins nuking the planet then I don't see how that's not a problem when they come from underneath him.
Click to expand...
He fights while flying way above the surface, so he should have some time to react to them without a problem. He does also have his Area to protect him (everyone at his level has), that should stop any of them from getting close to him.

"Area," said Patriarch Huyan, his voice calm and his expression unchanging. He lifted his right hand and then gestured forward. Instantly, everything within three hundred meters turned into his own Area world!
This divine ability was little different than natural law. It was a magical ability belonging to the Spirit Severing stage. The Area was not large, only three hundred meters. A three hundred meter Area which was a world only his own. Within that world, Patriarch Huyan had ultimate power. No divine abilities or magical techniques would be capable of breaking open the Area to harm him in any way.

This is what sets Spirit Severing completely above Nascent Soul. In the Spirit Severing stage, divine abilities become natural laws!

Nothing within the three hundred meter Area seemed unusual. However, in that instant, Meng Hao could sense that Patriarch Huyan had turned the space surrounding him into his own world.

A boom could be heard. As soon as the Devil Spear entered the three hundred meter region, it was defeated and transformed into a black mist. The mist spread out as if it were trying to infect the area, but Meng Hao could tell that it was actually fighting back against the world around it.
And even a simple cold snort from someone at the Spirit Severing Stage can do some pretty decent damage around them.

Even as the old man's words sounded out, and Luo Chong and the others were about to leave, suddenly, a cold snort rang out, filling the air. The snort shook Heaven and Earth, transforming into a rumble that made everything vibrate. Cracks appeared on the surface of the ground, and it seemed as if the very air would be ripped into pieces.
It appeared as if the land couldn't sustain the power of the snort, and was about to fall to pieces.

The snort caused the Nascent Soul Cultivator from the Western Desert to stumble backward a few paces. At the same time, Luo Chong and the others felt their hearts shaking, and stopped moving. Luo Chong's eyes narrowed, and he started to pant.

Down on the ground, the multitude of beasts dropped onto their stomachs, quivering and wailing. The flying beasts also began to shake, and stopped moving.

The thousands of Cultivators on the ground felt their minds buzzing, filled with the sound of the snort, making them incapable of even thinking.

The sky above changed color and the ground heaved.

The countless thorns which surrounded Holy Snow City began to break apart. Shrill cries rang out as the entire city shook and filled with an enormous roaring sound. The massive city walls of ice and snow began to fall, and the star-shaped devices above the city collapsed.

All of the city's protective spell formations had previously been penetrated, but since repaired. Under the power of this snort, though, they began to shatter and transform into flying dust.

Within the city, countless residences caved in. The Cultivators on the city walls coughed up blood and their faces twisted. There were even about a hundred Foundation Establishment Cultivators whose bodies directly exploded.

If it weren't for the four Grand Elders' immediate actions to protect their Clan Members, the Clan would have sustained severe casualties. However, the price they paid for this caused them to cough up mouthfuls of blood. The old woman, Third Elder, who had already been injured, felt her Cultivation base suddenly drop. Her body grew weak, and she seemed to be even older than before.

Meng Hao's face flickered as he shot backward, coughing up four or five mouthfuls of blood. He looked up into the sky, where he saw what appeared to be a sun approaching!
And, like, his main attack is a giant hand the size of a small planet, so he actually might just nuke the whole planet.

Should at least confuse them long enough for him to handle Atropus himself. Like, if his soul stuff works, it should one-shot the guy, so the battle can end pretty quickly if things go Revelation's way.
 
Weaknesses: If its avatar is slain Atropus will leave the planet its attacking.
What's this avatar of his?
Also,

Atropeasf


This is the quote explaining the type 8 on the profile. It doesn't seem to actually say that the energy heals him, just that it negates any life energy that he absorbs. And while it says that he'll die when all the life on the material plane is wiped out, it doesn't quite say that's the only way.
 
The avatar is what Atropus uses to attack things that venture on its surface if the hordes of undead don't already kill them. In the profile its the purple monster thing under the aspect tab.

For the Type 8 stuff I also don't explictily remember a direct connection between Atropus and the NE Plane, but I also haven't read his background in awhile.
 
Going by the story, defeating the Aspect results in Atropus flying away from the planet it was consuming. So yeah, if it summons the Aspect and it's defeated, the in-character move from Atropus is to just fly away.
 
The Aspect is just a physical embodiment of Atropus' will/mind. He just sorta summons it from thin air.
 
It's only relevant if the guy is considered divine, in which case it posses some rather strong anti-god hax. I think Atropus is unhealable damage but I may be wrong.
 
His Bell can use faith power, but it's sentient, so technically it's a separate entity to Revelation himself.
 
Here's what I was thinking of

Divine Scourge (Su): Once per day as a swift action, the aspect of Atropus can cause all divine spellcasters and extraplanar outsiders within a 1,000-mile radius to become sickened for 1d4 hours. An affected creature must succeed on a DC 53 Fortitude save or take 66 points of vile damage.

Vile Damage: Vile damage, like regular damage, results in the loss of hit points or ability score points. Unlike regular damage, vile damage can only be healed by magic cast within the area of a consecrate or hallow spell. Vile damage represents such an evil violation to a character's body or soul that only in a holy place can healing magic repair the damage

So the aspect has a far fast, 1,000 miles blast that causes divine spellcasters or beings not native to the material world to take a massive amount of unhealable soul damage.
 
Defeating his aspect is valid, yes.
 
Using the Aspect does seem like a huge liability against any other 5-C, especially since both Atropus and it only have High 6-A dura. Rev could probably evade that AoE through teleportation or flying away, although I guess it depends on how fast it moves.
 
Swift actions are, as described in that edition

Free Actio

Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free.

Swift Actio

A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn.

So it has very little windup, a range of 1,000 miles, the effect itself is instant, and there's no easy tell of what it even does. Unless the guy teleports thousands of kilometers whenever someone takes a stance or attacks, I think there's a solid chance of the wave connecting.
 
So, it just affects everything in range instantly? If it spreads like an explosion, he could probably just avoid the AoE.

If it does hit him, it doesn't seem like an insta-kill, so he could still fight. His soul defences are pretty decent as well.

If Atropus has to summon the Aspect to pull that though, it does leave him quite vulnerable to a counter-attack. Then there's the whole issue of his soul defences and Regenerationn that I'm not entirely sure would be enough to stop Rev from just killing him in the first hit.
 
There's different ways to resist something in DnD. If it was reflex based then it's possible to dodge with just speed and agility. A Fortitude save indicates that's it going to hit everything in that range and they must physically resist it. Although considering the speed difference and NLFs, I would say he has a chance to jump away in round 1.

As for the Aspect, I don't know if its limited to it or not. But considering the size difference, Atropus doesn't really have options for counter attacks. Its main dangers in-universe is anti-god hax which nullfies the top tiers and the ability to spam 9-B to High 6-A undead. Like at the core of it Atropus is just a floating planet head.
 
game mechanics translate weirdly into VSBW

and true, but Atropus himself isn't the main threat, it's the abundance of hax available from his planet-loads of undead. And for the record, the Aspect argument creates something that isn't possible in D&D. The characters present here are actively trying to kill Atropus- as in, the planet. Even if the killing of the aspect makes Atropus slowly drift away, that doesn't stop the willingness to kill on either side, a thing that isn't present in canon.
 
Rev's attacks are pretty much all AoE, so dealing with the summons while he deals with Atropus shouldn't be too hard, as long as the battle doesn't drag on for too long. Rev would most likely give chase if Atropus started to drift away, so I guess that killing the Aspect wouldn't end the battle.

Still though, that regen and type 8 seems a bit sketchy to me, the quote on the profile doesn't seem to imply that the energy regenerates him and would stop him from being killed in any other way. More context on that would be nice.
 
Bambu was saying that he could regenerate from soul destruction, and that the negative plane wouldn't allow him to die, so it sounded more like mid-godly.
 
that's Type 8

Just discussed it with Qawsed over discord. The issue with big Atropus is that he doesn't have stats, which in D&D is what allows us to have a very easy job in making profiles.

Atropus, like the Leviathan, are too damn big. Speaking with Qawsed I have convinced him that it works something like this: Atropus is directly connected to the Plane of Negative Energy, which is a universal, possibly multiversal sized plane of existence filled to the brim with the titular negative energy. This energy is what, in small amounts, fuels zombies and ghouls and in slightly larger amounts vampires and liches and atropals. It is also what allows the latter halves to regenerate to some extent- vampires can reform from vapor, liches need only a soul, etc etc.

Think of negative energy as nanobots that allow undead their super survivability. Each undead gets a bit in their body. Then look to Atropus, who by lore is literally connected to the multiverse-sized construct that has all of the energy in it, and is stated to not be able to die until it is empty. I will admit that generally the regen takes time for his whole form being destroyed- however that doesn't actually mean much in a VS Thread as it would be a short enough time to not trigger a loss.

This is, of course, all assuming Lord Revelation doesn't get touched literally once and the Undead hax him into oblivion.
 
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