Loop Hero General Discussion

[Agnaa]

Good news! I'm working on profiles. I've already collected all the scans I could find (erecting and upgrading every building, completing the encyclopedia, beating every boss 6 times), now I just have to collect them into a blog of feats and anti-feats to figure out the stats, then I can chuck those and scans for the abilities on some profiles.

(Bad news is that I don't seem to believe it's as strong as y'all do, I wouldn't say that anyone has permanent Subjective Reality, Existence Erasure good enough to kill SCP-682, or Immeasurable Speed)

But hey, I'd still appreciate input and help working on it, so here we are.

The blog's currently a bit all over the place; as of posting I'm up to this folder of my saved scans; if something's missing it's probably because I haven't gotten around to it yet.

Pinging people that I've seen talk about the game: @LIFE_OF_KING @First_Witch

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

No way
I was thinking in creating the profile when get time
I even have a extremly bad sandbox

But well, I can see that we disagree with a lot of shit lol

 

[Agnaa]

Wew I didn't see that, yeah I think we're a bit mismatched. Worst comes to worst, we could just bring our arguments to a joint-CRT before any pages are made.

We'd probably end up most in agreement on the Priestess, and most in disagreement on the Lich.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I havent even worked on Priestess's profile
I just put her Tier and thats it

Also, what you disagree with Lich's stuff? Aca type 5 was accepted by Glass for the Void if that helps with anything that you are planning

I said a lot about the verse scaling in that azontr server where you are in btw

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Hooray! New verse time boys.

 

[Agnaa]

I havent even worked on Priestess's profile
I just put her Tier and thats it

Ye but I assume that's because there's nothing too much to give her, and I think everything she implies is pretty solid.

Main thing being Immortality Type 6 that borders on Abstract Existence Type 2.

Also, what you disagree with Lich's stuff? Aca type 5 was accepted by Glass for the Void if that helps with anything that you are planning

A lotta stuff.

90% of the stuff you attribute Void Manip as being able to remove, Low 1-C, AE Type 1, Acausality Type 5, Immortality Types 2/5/9, scaling to Watchers (I don't view Watcher Mages as getting their bullshit by being powerful mages, but by being Watchers, so being a powerful mage doesn't entail scaling to them), High-Godly Resurrection/Healing, Chaos Manip/Probability Manip, giving him Void Manip in the first place, Time Manip, Resistance to Concept Manip/Memory Manip/Void Manip/Magic/Law Manip/Space-Time Manip/AE/Information Manip/Power Null.

Maybe more stuff, those are only the things I was >95% confident in based on what I remember. Guess I'll need to have a talk to Glass about the Acausality stuff eventually.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Ye but I assume that's because there's nothing too much to give her, and I think everything she implies is pretty solid.

Main thing being Immortality Type 6 that borders on Abstract Existence Type 2.

A lotta stuff.

90% of the stuff you attribute Void Manip as being able to remove, Low 1-C, AE Type 1, Acausality Type 5, Immortality Types 2/5/9, scaling to Watchers (I don't view Watcher Mages as getting their bullshit by being powerful mages, but by being Watchers, so being a powerful mage doesn't entail scaling to them), High-Godly Resurrection/Healing, Chaos Manip/Probability Manip, giving him Void Manip in the first place, Time Manip, Resistance to Concept Manip/Memory Manip/Void Manip/Magic/Law Manip/Space-Time Manip/AE/Information Manip/Power Null.

Maybe more stuff, those are only the things I was >95% confident in based on what I remember. Guess I'll need to have a talk to Glass about the Acausality stuff eventually.

Don't tempt me with the game... I can't play anything for long at least for 2-3 months.

 

[Agnaa]

Don't tempt me with the game... I can't play anything for long at least for 2-3 months.

I just 100%'d it in, like, 2 weeks, took me about 60 hours of play time.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I just 100%'d it in, like, 2 weeks, took me about 60 hours of play time.

I don't have that . I will be expecting the profiles till I can also offer personal views.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Spoiler

Main thing being Immortality Type 6 that borders on Abstract Existence Type 2.

Imo she should be Type 1. Priestess is basically the idea of faith and will always be reincarnated in some believer. Her physical form isn't relevant and she has become the very extension of Omega's will. However, she can't do much without some vessal, so it's a AE Type 1 char with the same limitation of a AE Type 2

90% of the stuff you attribute Void Manip as being able to remove

Mh, why? EE in the game is pretty direct

Low 1-C

I dont understand much about Tier 1 ngl, but for now the logic fits (I think)
We have the Astral Plane, a superior temporal plane that is infinitely greater than the space-time continuum, with it still being considered just part of the normal cosmos

And then we have infinite realitys, each with its own cosmos

And Yota, where each reality its just a part of her being

AE Type 1

For magic? Because Tome, which itself is just magic, is theorized to be the idea of knowledge in the literal sense

Is it a watcher armed with knowledge, or is it knowledge that armed itself with the watcher? Whichever it might be, this creature sees something wrong with your existence - and it is trying very hard to rectify this before it’s too late.

scaling to Watchers (I don't view Watcher Mages as getting their bullshit by being powerful mages, but by being Watchers, so being a powerful mage doesn't entail scaling to them)

We have different articles for Watcher and Watcher Mage in-game tho. If one shows a characteristic that the other doesn't have, it's due to the magic

High-Godly Resurrection/Healing

Well, seeing how Death is explained in the game, being a concept that runs the creation, I think it makes a bit of sense

Chaos Manip/Probability Manip

But thats something that a lot of mages have

Void Manip in the first place

Why this would be wrong? Lich can return things to the void with his magic, thus being void manipulation

Conversion to Nonexistence: The user of this ability might be capable of turning targets to nothing. This can range from only turning the matter of the target to nothing to also turning things like its energy, mind, soul, space, time and/or concept to nothing. Note that most users of this ability have not the full range of the ability. Further note that one shouldn't list a character to have resistance against this ability in total, as that requires a character to have shown resistance against every imaginable ability which can erase a target.

Time Manip

This one is pretty much stated (The Axis Tilt)

Resistance to Concept Manip/Memory Manip/Void Manip/Magic/Law Manip/Space-Time Manip/AE/Information Manip/Power Null.

All of this I can argue better later, but the power null one is solid. Eye of God cant affect any boss

I just 100%'d it in, like, 2 weeks, took me about 60 hours of play time.

Bro is a genius or something because it took me more than 100 hours

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Loop Hero - The Hunter is fast as fuck

vsbattles.fandom.com

I have this calc btw. I still believe in Immensurable speed for the verse but its still useful

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Of course, there is the occasional risk of hitting a planetoid (useless piles of frozen feces - one day I'll grind them all into dust).

Wouldn't that mean it's mostly travel speed?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Doesnt matter much. He can react to that speed and also shoot stars as a dayly thing

 

[Agnaa]

Spoiler

Imo she should be Type 1. Priestess is basically the idea of faith and will always be reincarnated in some believer. Her physical form isn't relevant and she has become the very extension of Omega's will. However, she can't do much without some vessal, so it's a AE Type 1 char with the same limitation of a AE Type 2

Fair enough.

Mh, why? EE in the game is pretty direct

For some characters, but I don't think a lotta the things you mention have those sorts of defensive abilities in ways that are relevant to their interactions with the Oblivion spell.

I dont understand much about Tier 1 ngl, but for now the logic fits (I think)
We have the Astral Plane, a superior temporal plane that is infinitely greater than the space-time continuum, with it still being considered just part of the normal cosmos

I'd have to look at all the evidence to give a better answer, but I took the "Astral Plane" as just being another term for the space-time continuum, not something above it.

And Yota, where each reality its just a part of her being

I don't remember that or expect that to be literal.

For magic? Because Tome, which itself is just magic, is theorized to be the idea of knowledge in the literal sense

It's a magic book. I think it's just a flavourful way of it talking about Tomes being able to possess people with the spells written in them, which get invoked as people read it.

We have different articles for Watcher and Watcher Mage in-game tho. If one shows a characteristic that the other doesn't have, it's due to the magic

Yeah but I think those are about a Watcher, these beings that can innately rewind time, ignore physics, and retreat to nonexistence, having magic, not something that every being could have. But even here I'd need to drill down to specifics, I thought most of the good stuff came from the base Watchers.

Well, seeing how Death is explained in the game, being a concept that runs the creation, I think it makes a bit of sense

I don't really remember much about that, so I'll have to get back to you.

But thats something that a lot of mages have

Meh, I'd have to look at the source and think about it.

Why this would be wrong? Lich can return things to the void with his magic, thus being void manipulation

Ah yeah nvm, I got too hung up on the recent stuff about him teleporting things away, and forgot that Oblivion was explicitly stated to be from him. Yeah that should be fine.

This one is pretty much stated (The Axis Tilt)

Ah, I didn't realise that came from defeating the Lich. With that in mind, it should be good.

All of this I can argue better later, but the power null one is solid. Eye of God cant affect any boss

Ah yeah, I forgot about that. And because of other statements surrounding bosses, we can't argue that it's just Omega refusing to help.

Bro is a genius or something because it took me more than 100 hours

I had good intuitions from the first time I beat the game, already had some fairly refined decks. I started from the beginning but already knowing that setup helped a fair bit.

Once my strat started hitting a wall on Omega I looked up some guides, which helped me beat him just about every time.

Loop Hero - The Hunter is fast as fuck

vsbattles.fandom.com

I have this calc btw. I still believe in Immensurable speed for the verse but its still useful

Ye, I already had that in my blog.

Wouldn't that mean it's mostly travel speed?

Ye, but he has the star shooting feat for attack speed, which I'll have to calc, and would probably end up somewhere similar.

Doesnt matter much. He can react to that speed and also shoot stars as a dayly thing

idk if he can react, given his comment about that being a risk.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

But he can't react if he fears he will smash into stuff considering he should be seeing from afar where he is already going.

but he has the star shooting feat for attack speed

But if he already has something then all is good.

 

[Agnaa]

Ye, but he has the star shooting feat for attack speed, which I'll have to calc, and would probably end up somewhere similar.

Funnily enough, if we say that the day speeds are literal (so that the profiles get self-sustenance and superhuman stamina), that'd nerf this speed feat a LOT.

But I think we probably shouldn't, both since the dialogue at camp doesn't really reflect the Hero being gone for days at a time, or it taking days for the other survivors to get to him, and since deciding exactly how long we should assume they're fighting/running without sleep for is weird, since they can both kinda be arbitrarily long.

 

[Agnaa]

Done another update of the good ol' blog. Alongside that, I've calculated the speed the Hunter would need to leave the heart of the greatest black hole with minimal injuries. It's really consistent with the star-traveling feat; 25% lower on the low-end 7x higher on the high-end.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Spoiler

For some characters, but I don't think a lotta the things you mention have those sorts of defensive abilities in ways that are relevant to their interactions with the Oblivion spell.

Such as?

I'd have to look at all the evidence to give a better answer, but I took the "Astral Plane" as just being another term for the space-time continuum, not something above it.

That wouldnt make much sense, since Time Shard, that its stated to be part of the time and space, isnt put as Astral

The laws of this world are usually based on space and time. But the space is shattered. And so is time, as you can see.

I don't remember that or expect that to be literal.

She is the Godness of probability, with every probability being part of her

I've helped you no more than you've helped me. I'm a Goddess of Probability, not Inevitability. Don't underestimate the importance of this moment. There exists an uncountable number of probabilities where you have been defeated. Where you've died on your looped path or were killed by one of his "Disciples". Or just decided to give up and face the End of the World.All these probabilities and realities are still doomed to happen.

I don’t think you’re able to comprehend this. I’m a part of the self-defense mechanism. One of the multitude of copies sent to other realities at the moment of death.

It's a magic book. I think it's just a flavourful way of it talking about Tomes being able to possess people with the spells written in them, which get invoked as people read it.

Tome isnt just a book, no. Its the legacy of a mage that is born after the death, as you can see in "Legacy" power that mages have. The logic of magic also being the idea of knowledge itself is supported by the Vampire Mage saying that magic is knowledge, but with another name

Very important, I agree. Knowledge can help you find a path through the laws of the universe. That's what we call magic. I can clearly see your place in this chaos. Do you know why everyone around you is trying so hard to kill you ?

Yeah but I think those are about a Watcher, these beings that can innately rewind time, ignore physics, and retreat to nonexistence, having magic, not something that every being could have. But even here I'd need to drill down to specifics, I thought most of the good stuff came from the base Watchers.

No, I really don't think so. If some article says something about Watcher Mages but doesnt say the same for normal Watchers, we should assume that its thanks to the magic and not just their normal nature. One of the lore texts clearly states that the features that Watcher Mages are making are thanks to magic, and I don't think we can assume that just one of the texts would randomly be talking about their magical ability and all the others just about their physiology

Magical knowledge can possess a mind: the watcher mages are clear proof of that.
No longer a passive patroller, the watcher mage interferes with the world in a way that defies understanding.
A watcher mage might, in that specific order: save a rabbit from a pack of wolves, destroy a trade caravan, create twelve stone cubes, and then stop moving for a few days... and it’s not even the strangest of their known possible deeds.
Magical societies agree these actions are not chaotic nor accidental: rather, they are done in pursuit of some unknown far-reaching goals

I don't really remember much about that, so I'll have to get back to you.

Death was detached from creation and now is like a orb

All existence's ability to die. You may find it terrible, but the world couldn't exist without its fragility and transience.

Just like what happened with the concept of change

The world's ability to change and transform was carefully detached from its existence, put into an orb, and destroyed. It's nice that it isn't irreversible.

With Death also being stated by Alpha/Omega as being a eternal movement for the creation

Alpha was creating a world that was creating itself. And at the core of this world was a great and unending transformation. And so was born the deathly peace that every part of existence craves, thus creating the eternal movement from the beginning to the end.

And then there's the statement that to reach the ability to revive, one need to defeat Death itself

You don't hurt anyone, you say?
But that's exactly what I want you to do. Go ahead, cover the flesh of your enemies with as many wounds as you can.
Life is fragile. Easily snapped. To find new ways to mend and heal... That is my passion.
I am not your enemy, oh no. My enemy is Death itself.

You want me healing stomach-aches and blistered hands? Thank you, but I will not.
Such pathetic practice won't make me into a master healer. Oh, but imagine how many lives I'd be able to save once I finally master my craft!
Now please, be so kind as to murder everyone in here. I need practice material.
Gets defeated by the Hero
So inefficient. This medicine is too weak.
Curses! I was so sure my new treatment could beat Death...
What a shame.

Meh, I'd have to look at the source and think about it.

Its via Balance and Chaos

I also want to know whats wrong with Aca Type 5

 

[Everything12]

So what's the actual scan for it being unchangeable? Is their the necessary evidence of being uninteractable? Because statements of being unchangeable alone, reagrdless of mentions of concepts or goddesses of probability, is not sufficient evidence. Especially if these are characters the Hero interacts with, potentially being an anti-feat of Acausality Type 5 there.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

So what's the actual scan for it being unchangeable? Is their the necessary evidence of being uninteractable? Because statements of being unchangeable alone, reagrdless of mentions of concepts or goddesses of probability, is not sufficient evidence. Especially if these are characters the Hero interacts with, potentially being an anti-feat of Acausality Type 5 there.

Hey everything. You interested in this? Or just dropped by?

 

[Everything12]

I play the game abit myself, but I'm also pretty knowledgeable on Acausality Type 5.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Nice at least the game is popular. Shoud play it when I have time...Which is probably never....Interested to see what you all come up with in terms of it's standing though.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

So what's the actual scan for it being unchangeable?

It lacks the concept of change. You can see everything here

Acausality Type 5 checklist

The text doesn’t really sound like it’s uninteractable, just that dodging or blocking it is very hard to do Not in an explicit way, no, I said it implies it. He couldn't dodge nor defend against it, so he entered that state of being so he fazes through it. and I’m not exactly seeing the whole...

vsbattles.com

Especially if these are characters the Hero interacts with, potentially being an anti-feat of Acausality Type 5 there.

The Hero is buffed as **** tho due to Yota's influencie. He has a ton of NPI that even allow him to interact with NEP beings

Also, why serlock looks so against me with everything

 

[Everything12]

Yeah, if that's all you have then that's not enough. Evidence of being uninteractable is pretty essential to Acauslity Type 5.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

What did poor old me do . I'm interested in this verse getting profiles.

Yeah, if that's all you have then that's not enough. Evidence of being uninteractable is pretty essential to Acauslity Type 5.

Do you have an example on hand? Also would this be some other type of causaulity then?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Yeah, if that's all you have then that's not enough. Evidence of being uninteractable is pretty essential to Acauslity Type 5.

Well, yeah, you aint interacting with the primordial void even without Aca Type 5 due to the layered NEP Type 2

 

[Everything12]

What did poor old me do . I'm interested in this verse getting profiles.


Do you have an example on hand? Also would this be some other type of causaulity then?

Check Madoka and Type 4 probably.

Well, yeah, you aint interacting with the primordial void even without Aca Type 5 due to the layered NEP Type 2

Evidence of being uninteractable attributed to their acasual nature, and not any nonexistent or abstract physiology.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

How Im supposed to prove that nonexistence cant by interacted due to the acasual nature lol. Everything that I show you could counter by saying "Its due to NEP, not Aca"

And I dont think that you need that three things. Glass while revising a lot of Aca Type 5 chars stated that you just need to prove about the unchangeable nature alongside being above/outside the casual system, nothing else

 

[Everything12]

More your meant to provide evidence of "This unchanging new reality is ephermeal and resists our attempts to grasp it." Or something like that. Something that directly connects being acausal to being uninteractable.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

How Im supposed to prove that nonexistence cant by interacted due to the acasual nature lol. Everything that I show you could counter by saying "Its due to NEP, not Aca"

I think at that point it needs to be stated. Here is the scan he referenced.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I aint believing this
Gonna ask some other mods

 

[Everything12]

Well I say this, but as with other such things in fiction, their are cases where context surrounding the unchanging nature can lead it to be Acausality Type 5. But that's a case by case and is kinda based off how the statements are presented, and how the places and beings are portrayed, so it's hard to describe and translate from one verse to another. But based off my evaluation, the evidence presented does not point towards this being the case.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I aint believing this
Gonna ask some other mods

Maybe a Q&A would be good? I would guess a crt would come after the profiles start happening.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Alright, by what Glass says, uninteractable aspect its just supporting evidence and can be used as antifeat if anyone interact with the aca type 5 character without any proper explanation. But thats far from being a main criteria. So I still say that the primal void and bosses qualify for Type 5

 

[Everything12]

So where's the evidence for this part.

"where nothing normal can really interact with you or the status of the world being altered wouldn't remotely affect you as a result."

 

[Arceus0x]

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

So where's the evidence for this part.

Lich was unchangeable after having removed all aspects of the world

And again, this isnt a main criteria

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Welcome! We have a debate on acausality atm.

 

[Everything12]

I'm not seeing any evidence that this unchanging nature has the necessary qualities for Acausality Type 5, their is no feats or statements that connect this unchangingness to the essential properties of Acausality Type 5. Someone who is outside causality to the point nothing can effect them.

Show me evidence that expands on this 'unchangingness', that actually describe what holding this property means, and that connects it to Acausality Type 5 "where nothing normal can really interact with you or the status of the world being altered wouldn't remotely affect you as a result". Because merely calling something unchanging, and throwing in some flavor about concepts and goddesses of probability without actually expanding on it isn't sufficient.

 

[Arceus0x]

Welcome! We have a debate on acausality atm.

I actually know nothing about this game, it is the first time I've heard of it. I only came to post this meme. See you around.