Link revisions

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Fan opinions don't exactly matter, else Sans would still have soul poison proportional to how violent you are.

 

[Rocker1189]

I am going to be honest that sounds like a composite to me. I said it in the original thread and would say it again. I don't agree with Mario either, and as for Kirby I don't know nearly enough to say. But I think that mario is essentially a composite for the same reasons that I think this link Is essentially a composite.

 

[TriforcePower1]

I know they don't really matter, but support is support. It was just to support what Nintendo itself said about Link.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Mario shares his physical abilities all throughout the games, it's the powerups he doesn't. But at least he can't use most power ups at once, except the star upgrade.

But still, not sure if we should allow optional equipment when the equipment can't all be gotten at once.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I know they don't really matter, but support is support. It was just to support what Nintendo itself said about Link.

Which is not proof. Because it was explained quiet a few times why all reincarnation of Link being Link doesn't mean that they all are the same thing in power, memory, equipment, magic, etc.

I know for a fact that they don't all share memory, nor equipment (optional or not).

 

[Kepekley23]

This profile might be a good idea.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Can you explain why this is somehow better then the profiles we already have for link? In the end its functionally the same as just having those individual profiles. While Im still in favor of simply nuking this and would argue it's far easier to keep track of scaling and equipment with individual profiles Im willing to accept the messy single profile. I just really don't understand the purpose of pushing link to a single profile and nuking all the individual ones we already have.

 

[Antvasima]

I would personally prefer to keep all of the Link profiles/incarnations of the same character.

 

[Bobsican]

If Link gets merged into a single profile, the Links category likely should be removed as it would no longer hold an use the top tabbers for non canon Links already hold.

 

[Ionliosite]

I agree with merging all profiles into a single "Link (The Legend of Zelda)" profile. They're canonically the same character, and should be treated as such. Having 19 different pages for minor incarnations is extremely messy.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, they are different reincarnations with different memories and power levels. It would mess up the scaling to other characters if we assume that they are all equal.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Well, they are different reincarnations with different memories and power levels. It would mess up the scaling to other characters if we assume that they are all equal.

THey literally are tho, all of them scale to the same feats

 

[Ionliosite]

Yeah, all Link profiles scale to the same things, and the different abilities are all because of Optional Equipment. It'll be a lot easier to have it all on a single page and add those Optional Equipment abilities as a different tabber/key.

 

[Ionliosite]

It would mess up the scaling to other characters if we assume that they are all equal.

They ARE equal tho, we rate them on the very same tiers. Just check their profiles and you'll see most of them are identical, with the ones that are different being because of Optional Equipment.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then. Lots of links (no pun intended) to all of the old profiles would have to be updated though.

 

[Bobsican]

So long the resulting Link profile has the powers separated for each era sort of like Sora it should be fine, as we all know they don't share every single power and resistance at once.

 

[Ionliosite]

Exactly, all powers that come from Optional Equipment and specific games should be given separated tabbers/keys, since Link DOESN'T have all his powers at once.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Just a word of advice, even different Links have different forms. Like the Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask version has OoT YL at High 7-A, MM Young Link and mask forms High 6-C, Adult Link at least 5-A, possibly High 4-C, and FDL being 3-A all being squeezed into a single key is super messy. There's also Zelda one having tiers Zelda 1 and 2; It's at least 5-A, possibly High 4-C, for both and then Complete Triforce is 3-A. There's also BotW's 5-A rating, multiple High 6-A versions of Link, Skyward Sword's multiple keys ranging from 6-A to High 6-A, to At least High 4-C possibly 4-A with True Master Sword, and 3-A with complete Triforce. There's also A Link to the Past having a key where he's 3-A even without Triforce, though gets downgraded to High 6-A in Link's Awakening. Plenty of High 6-A versions to squeeze.

I strongly prefer keeping all the profiles as there's far too much to squeeze in and clutter Link's profile.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

You're making that sound way harder to parse than it actually is. It's actually pretty easy to separate the keys out, and there are characters with far more keys in their profiles than even what you're suggesting.

High 7-A can be deleted or left in there as a low-end as it's literally for the power of a single one of Link's weapons. Young Link gets High 6-C. That's easy.

Basic Adult Link is High 6-A for obvious reasons. the normal 6-A keys can be scrapped as they're essentially pointless, and Skyward Sword link is the only one to use the 6-A sword. It's been the Master Sword in literally every game since, as SS was a prequel set thousands of years before the other games.

5-A BOTW Link had the Master Sword, as did every single one of his 5-A incarnations. Master Sword is standard equipment along with the Triforce of Courage, which is also 5-A/High 4-C. "Standard Equipment" link can get "At least 5-A, likely High 4-C. 4-A when wielding the True Master Sword", or the True MS can be given a separate key. it's not an issue.

Link's strongest items (Golden Master Sword and Fierce Deity Mask) are both 3-A, and can get a "Strongest equipment", "With the Golden Sword or Fierce Deity Mask", or "WIth his Strongest Items" Key.

Obviously the Complete Triforce is a 3-A key.

So the final keys would be:

High 6-C | High 6-A | At least 5-A, likely High 4-C. possibly 4-A with the True Master Sword | 3-A | 3-A

Key: Young | Adult | With Standard Equipment | Strongest Equipment | Complete Triforce

or alternatively:

High 6-C | High 6-A | At least 5-A, likely High 4-C | At least High 4-C, possibly 4-A | 3-A | 3-A

Key: Young | Adult | WIth the Master Sword | With the True Master Sword | With the Golden Master Sword | With the Complete Triforce

Bam. All of Link's keys neatly separated into 5/6, depending on your preference.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Is he capable of actually obtaining said "strongest items" all at once at any point?

 

[TriforcePower1]

At the end of the day, there are only 4 tiers: High 6-A for normal Link, 5-A likely High 4-C for those with MS and ToC, 3-A for Optional equipment. High 7-A is literally Link when he was 10 and fodder level.

There are technically BOTW Link who's only 5-A and SS!Link who's High 4-C, but no one scales from them anyway, and they're just two out of nineteen. It's just not worth it.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Is he capable of actually obtaining said "strongest items" all at once at any point?

What even is the point you're trying to make here? That doesn't invalidate anything.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

What even is the point you're trying to make here? That doesn't invalidate anything.

What I am pointing out is that you can't make one key with items or abilities he can't have at once.

If you make a single Link profile, unless you make a key for each game, he will need to be at most divided into keys such as "Young | adult | with the triforce".

However, that also means he only gets the equipment he can always have, or what his newest reincarnation can have.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

What you're suggesting is just bringing back Composite Link, which not only defeats the entire purpose of this thread, but completely ignores everything posted in the above thread. Like, the solution you're proposing is to just... make the page as barebones as possible and willingly leave out equipment.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Phantom Hour Glass and Spirit Tracks adult Links Young Links, but they're High 6-A scaling from Base Ganondorf without Triforce of Power. High 7-A is what characters such as Gohma, King Dodongo, and Barinade are; we don't know if they're quite as strong as the 4 Temple bosses in Majora's Mask. And Young Link is obviously much stronger than he was in Ocarina due to potential Gilded Sword, Great Fairy Sword, and being able to carry the Hylian Shield along side the Kokiri Sword. So I don't think we should get rid of that. The various Four Swords Links are also High 6-A.

The At least 5-A, possibly High 4-C applies to Link having the Master Sword and the Triforce of Courage, having only one makes him High 6-A without other feats. Though, Majora's Mask Link also has Triforce of Courage, which OoT Link did not before first touching the Master Sword which is another reason for High 7-A to stay. Also, Minish Cap Link is also included with the At least 5-A, possibly High 4-C key.

Plus, I think the way Link is handled right now is much easier to handle scaling and make VS threads for. And I know Samus Ara has he profile similar to what's being proposed here, but even hers is often said to be "Cluttered".

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No, I am saying that you either make a profile with differing keys for each major games, or you drop any equipment his most recent iteration can't obtain in any feasible way.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

No, I am saying that you either make a profile with differing keys for each major games, or you drop any equipment his most recent iteration can't obtain in any feasible way.

SO either not have this page, or make this page barebones to the point where there's no point in having it.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

snip

Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks are technically toon link, not child link. If you want them to have a separate key, that can be done.

Four Sword can probably be placed in the "standard" key with the Master Sword as it's Link's main weapon in the four swords saga. Once again, Master Sword + Triforce can be separated.

If we're going this route, I'd support separating Young and Toon link from the "main" link as they're so different in comparison, and are represented as such in smash.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No, that is not what I said. You can just make a single page and just leave versions of Link that have nothing special going for them, but even then the optional equipment for each key would be pretty messy.

But if you make one profile, you can't put an item he can't get as optional because he got it a few reincarnation before. And you do have to make the page about Link at his current point.

He is not a species of animal that you can just list the common abilities of like a dog or cattle, he is a singular person, so a profile for him has to have his latest appearance detailed, on it's own or as a key.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

"You can't put an item he only has sometimes as optional equipment, and you can only make a page about current link"

wut

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

That is not what I said.

A character profile, with some rare exceptions, has to show the most recent version of the same character. So, you can't make a profile for episode 1 Naruto and just leave off at that permanently. You can say you'll update it later, but you will need to update it with the newer version.

Something he physically cannot obtain in the point in time his profile describes can' t be added as equipment of any kind. If he can go and take it any time, sure, but if he only had it literal lifetimes ago and can't obtain it anymore, then not really.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

well boys i guess the composite link profile is literally just going to be breath of the wild link lmao

 

[Dienomite22]

I don't mind this going through but I can't imagine it will be staying for long with the confusion it will bring. I would keep the seperate profiles backed up just in case.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Also

"with some rare exceptions"

Hi, we're talking about Link from the Legend of Zelda whose entire thing is having a shitton of equipment he swaps out all the time

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

TBH at this point i really don't care what happens as the only alternatives to the OP so far are pretty much entirely based on not wanting to put in the effort to look at a tab in the equipment to check link's equipment so i'm just gonna let triforce and cal handle it

 

[TriforcePower1]

Ricsi, you're trying to use standards that exist effectively only for anime/manga and apply them to videogame characters

Crash Bandicoot (Character), Spyro and Sonic are good, non-Nintendo examples of this. In these cases, we separate basing ourselves from their forms, not games.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No, the rare exceptions are where the most recent version of the character is not liable to make a profile for, such as an ending time-skip version of a protagonist that is shown for 5 seconds.

Link is nothing special. His equipment varies a lot. That doesn't matter, because items he physically can't obtain won't be given to him just because he held them in another life.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Ricsi, you're trying to use standards that exist effectively only for anime/manga and apply them to videogame characters

Crash Bandicoot (Character), Spyro and Sonic are good, non-Nintendo examples of this. In these cases, we separate basing ourselves from their forms, not games.

And that still doesn't mean you can give them a c9mbination equipments that they can't have.

None of those exemple really relies on items much at all, so I don't see how they affects this. Link can't have all his items he ever held in one key, that's impossible to change.

 

[TriforcePower1]

>Link is nothing special

The simple fact that this thread even exists contradicts this.

Everything else you said didn't stop any of the profiles above from being separated into forms instead of games.

 

[TriforcePower1]

And yet Crash has everything in a single key. And yet Spyro has everything in his last key.