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Link (Composite) vs Sephiroth
- Thread starter Samira30
- Start date
- Status
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,341
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It should've been obvious by the stats of the profile it's only a canon composite, make a CRT if you disagree.
Dust_Collector
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Anyway most people have agreed that this is, predictably, a stomp in Sephiroths favour so this thread should be closed.
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Outliers.Konaguna said:
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@Konaguna: Composite Link refers to this specific profile , which is about his canon series appearances (otherwise his CD-i and American Series selves would knock him several tiers back ovo)
Gotta say, Link does look pretty badass with that red cape.
Link killing via Triforce does have a rather blurry context and there's doubt if it's even his first shot in-character, while Sephy can one-shot Link with pretty much anything due to AP difference: a swing, a blade beam, telekinesis, a spell, or even teleport and strike (which is what he does in his Crisis Core boss battle). Link also would have to be very specific to say "I want this guy to be erased from existence" given Sephy resists death manipulation, Smiting and dimensional BFR, if Link in a rush makes the wrong wish it won't work due to Sephy's many resistances.
I agree with others here. there hasn't been any major changes in neither Link nor Sephiroth's abilities or powers since their last match, which was also considered a stomp, to really argue a different outcome. And if Link was considered from all his appearances and was multiversal, then it'd be a stomp anyways which leaves us in a similar position.
Gotta say, Link does look pretty badass with that red cape.
Link killing via Triforce does have a rather blurry context and there's doubt if it's even his first shot in-character, while Sephy can one-shot Link with pretty much anything due to AP difference: a swing, a blade beam, telekinesis, a spell, or even teleport and strike (which is what he does in his Crisis Core boss battle). Link also would have to be very specific to say "I want this guy to be erased from existence" given Sephy resists death manipulation, Smiting and dimensional BFR, if Link in a rush makes the wrong wish it won't work due to Sephy's many resistances.
I agree with others here. there hasn't been any major changes in neither Link nor Sephiroth's abilities or powers since their last match, which was also considered a stomp, to really argue a different outcome. And if Link was considered from all his appearances and was multiversal, then it'd be a stomp anyways which leaves us in a similar position.
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The fact that sephiroth comes back even if that was his go to moveKonaguna said:
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No he can't. Seph still stomps super super hard but no, that would kill Seph for good.
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How would Ganon vs Sephiroth be? Since he can counter the AP
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Sephy does resist Death Manipulation so he can't be insta killed this way, it'd have to specifically be Existance Erasure which he doesn't really have protection against (EE would also bypass his resurrection, correct?). Also, I may be wrong, but doesn't his resurrection takes some prep time to pull off? Sephy would come back, but would it still be appliable for the fight?Theglassman12 said:
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Ganon BFRes to Dark World where Sephy gets 4-B transmutated, in theory.
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I'm tempted
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I already know Sephy is going to win because reasons, so do as you want
Yes, I'm salty ovo
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Geostigma would like to have a word with you.The real cal howard said:
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what is the score?
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Stomp and close is the undisputed winner.
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Well, Sephy does resist Transmutation and Dimensional BFR. The Remove spell actually sends people to the Rift (TLDR: bizarre mishmash of dimensions connected to the Void, the "glue" that connects the FF multiverse). Long story short, Remove in the japanese version is "Dezone " the same spell in the series that's used to send targets to other dimensions and what ExDeath uses to send people to the Void, Sephy is unaffected by that.
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And the fact we did is bad becausee.....?
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I am fairly calm, is just that your comment being a joke is pretty impossible to tell so I was just confused.
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We kinda did mention the issues with what Kona said, though. Just, we werent' "lmao you're nuts" about it >_>
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Okay, long post, I apologize in advance:
When killed or destroyed, Sephy doesn't properly die as much as his conscience goes back into the Lifestream, just having his memories navigating it seems to be enough according to the "On the Way to Smile - Chapter Black" short story. So long a fragment of Sephiroth remain on the world, be it simple Jenova cells, people tainted with the Lifestream he has corrupted or just people remembering him (like Cloud), he can summon himself back. It's a type of Reliant Immortality, and just found out, if this thread it to go by, even Existence Erasure wouldn't be enough for Link to bypass Sephy's Immortality. Link would have to be aware of how Sephy's resurrection works to fully destroy him (so he can make a wish with the specifics to destroy Sephy and erase all traces of him), which he could with Fi's help, I guess. But in the meantime he grasps that, Sephy won't stand still. Though, my big question about it is whether is this combat appliable or not, given Sephy apparently needs prep time to stage a resurrection.
There's also the issue that has been told several times: Sephy can kill Link with most of his moves, among them: he can teleport for a surprise factor (which he does in-character) and telekinesis, which is also thought based, and he also uses in-character to attack his enemies (in FF7 final battle was the first thing he tried against the party). This is assuming Link, in-character, goes for Triforce wishing as his very first move.
In Skyward Sword, the game where Link actually uses the Triforce to destroy someone: it wasn't by Link's initiative that he used the Triforce that way; not only Demise's threat was built up heavily through the story (Link had fought it twice by then IIRC), when Zelda revealed she was Hylia and how the nature of the Triforce, she openly told Link he could use it to vanquish Demise given gods can't use it and only someone of unbreakable spirit could . The Triforce being the only choice to destroy Demise is something, Impa confirms right after Link and Zelda's reunion. When you go for the Triforce, it's pretty much with that objective in mind from before, the narration (possibly Link's thoughts) even says to use the Triforce to make Zelda's wish come true . Another detail, as seen in the cutscene, Triforce wishing isn't an instantaneous thing exactly, Fi states Link must focus and wish with all his heart and we actually see how Link indeed closes his eyes and concentrates his thoughs for a few moments before the wish starts to take effect. So it isn't an insta win condition, the wishing takes a few instants if SS is to go by, and the plot heavily nudged him to go for it, so it really casts doubt whether it's actually in character for him to use it first or not. ALttP and ALbW had similar issues where there was a huge mess that can only be fixed with the power if the Triforce in the end, so it made sense to go for the wish right away for a specific purpose.
Isn't Reality Warping a means to induce other types of manipulation? This is a genuine question, because most of the talk is about existance erasure itself not proper reality warping before. I always thought RW was more of a means to an end.
Also if you're that if you're going that "composite" holds for Links in all his appearances in all videogames, it would still lead to a stomp but with Link dealing it, making the thread pointless anyways. Not to mention, using composites to fetch ALL appearances of a character instead of an agreed one is a slippery slope, especially given there is no consensus on Link beyond his official series appearances. This could also apply for Sephy himself and be argued that to make it fair he should also be a composite, which would make him a 2-A for being comparable to ExDeath in Dissidia (in NT he is post-FFV ExDeath) and resist Reality Warping by being able to fight Shinryu in Dissidia NT, which is giving an absurd boost almost arbitrarily. And a discussion would erupt tracking every appearance they've had through media since forever.
When killed or destroyed, Sephy doesn't properly die as much as his conscience goes back into the Lifestream, just having his memories navigating it seems to be enough according to the "On the Way to Smile - Chapter Black" short story. So long a fragment of Sephiroth remain on the world, be it simple Jenova cells, people tainted with the Lifestream he has corrupted or just people remembering him (like Cloud), he can summon himself back. It's a type of Reliant Immortality, and just found out, if this thread it to go by, even Existence Erasure wouldn't be enough for Link to bypass Sephy's Immortality. Link would have to be aware of how Sephy's resurrection works to fully destroy him (so he can make a wish with the specifics to destroy Sephy and erase all traces of him), which he could with Fi's help, I guess. But in the meantime he grasps that, Sephy won't stand still. Though, my big question about it is whether is this combat appliable or not, given Sephy apparently needs prep time to stage a resurrection.
There's also the issue that has been told several times: Sephy can kill Link with most of his moves, among them: he can teleport for a surprise factor (which he does in-character) and telekinesis, which is also thought based, and he also uses in-character to attack his enemies (in FF7 final battle was the first thing he tried against the party). This is assuming Link, in-character, goes for Triforce wishing as his very first move.
In Skyward Sword, the game where Link actually uses the Triforce to destroy someone: it wasn't by Link's initiative that he used the Triforce that way; not only Demise's threat was built up heavily through the story (Link had fought it twice by then IIRC), when Zelda revealed she was Hylia and how the nature of the Triforce, she openly told Link he could use it to vanquish Demise given gods can't use it and only someone of unbreakable spirit could . The Triforce being the only choice to destroy Demise is something, Impa confirms right after Link and Zelda's reunion. When you go for the Triforce, it's pretty much with that objective in mind from before, the narration (possibly Link's thoughts) even says to use the Triforce to make Zelda's wish come true . Another detail, as seen in the cutscene, Triforce wishing isn't an instantaneous thing exactly, Fi states Link must focus and wish with all his heart and we actually see how Link indeed closes his eyes and concentrates his thoughs for a few moments before the wish starts to take effect. So it isn't an insta win condition, the wishing takes a few instants if SS is to go by, and the plot heavily nudged him to go for it, so it really casts doubt whether it's actually in character for him to use it first or not. ALttP and ALbW had similar issues where there was a huge mess that can only be fixed with the power if the Triforce in the end, so it made sense to go for the wish right away for a specific purpose.
Isn't Reality Warping a means to induce other types of manipulation? This is a genuine question, because most of the talk is about existance erasure itself not proper reality warping before. I always thought RW was more of a means to an end.
Also if you're that if you're going that "composite" holds for Links in all his appearances in all videogames, it would still lead to a stomp but with Link dealing it, making the thread pointless anyways. Not to mention, using composites to fetch ALL appearances of a character instead of an agreed one is a slippery slope, especially given there is no consensus on Link beyond his official series appearances. This could also apply for Sephy himself and be argued that to make it fair he should also be a composite, which would make him a 2-A for being comparable to ExDeath in Dissidia (in NT he is post-FFV ExDeath) and resist Reality Warping by being able to fight Shinryu in Dissidia NT, which is giving an absurd boost almost arbitrarily. And a discussion would erupt tracking every appearance they've had through media since forever.
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can link also ress with fairies miphas grace etc in this match ?
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If said resurrection can bring back his entire body being splattered across the floor via a massive AP advantage, then yes
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I don't even think resistance to being APd to death exists
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Yes there is, it's called OP Regenerationn. OwOSchnee One said:
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There's also durability... (>'-')> <('-'<) ^('-')^ v('-')v(>'-')>
Dust_Collector
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Many Ganondorf fans would try and argue otherwise lol.Schnee One said:
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In all seriousness, Schnee and Glass do make a point. Link's Regenerationn, immortality and resurrection does have its limits. If the profile is to go by, he can regen lost limbs and extreme organ damage, while his immortality is about reincarnation, eternal life, extreme resilience and undead existence.
However, Sephy AP difference can easily shred Link to pieces, blow him to Ashes with any spell or move, well beyond his regen capabilities and endurance (if he had a type 3, Regenerationn type, it would help a lot, though). And even if we consider his undead existence, the FFVII party can take out undead enemies without issues, and Sephy had his clones going around in the same places the party encountered those monsters. As well as being able to attack the soul directly. I know Link resists Soul Manipulation, but the AP difference may render that moot.
However, Sephy AP difference can easily shred Link to pieces, blow him to Ashes with any spell or move, well beyond his regen capabilities and endurance (if he had a type 3, Regenerationn type, it would help a lot, though). And even if we consider his undead existence, the FFVII party can take out undead enemies without issues, and Sephy had his clones going around in the same places the party encountered those monsters. As well as being able to attack the soul directly. I know Link resists Soul Manipulation, but the AP difference may render that moot.
Dust_Collector
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Like Schnee already said, Ganondorf would be a much better opponent since his regen makes the massive AP gap moot. Hell, even High 5-A Ganon would have a better chance at winning because of the regen.
Dust_Collector
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It may or may not be pointless, just depends on how the type 8 works. Ganons type 8 for example is completely useless in a fight since it takes hundreds of years to work.
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From what I get, it depends if it's combat appliable or not. I mean, the guy may come back, but if it takes too long for him to do so then it doesn't really alter the outcome of the fight and he's declared the loser. If he can just bring himself back into the fight immediately then it does count for the fight and he keeps going.
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Not what I was asking for, I was asking how type 8 is handled.
Like take a look at Yuki Terumi, he exist as long as concept of hate exists, or Was that Lucemon idk. Something like that is applicable in a vsmatch.
But when a character relies on Objects, like Voldemort, how is that handled in a fight? Where are these objects? Is in this case type 8 just crossed off the list even if a character could immediately comeback?
Like take a look at Yuki Terumi, he exist as long as concept of hate exists, or Was that Lucemon idk. Something like that is applicable in a vsmatch.
But when a character relies on Objects, like Voldemort, how is that handled in a fight? Where are these objects? Is in this case type 8 just crossed off the list even if a character could immediately comeback?
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@Konaguna Terumi's type 8 is more than that. But his is a lot different from say, Dracule, where he comes back every century despite having Type 8
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@Kona: I guess if that puts him outside the fight without the chance of coming back he'd be declared the loser. Or perhaps it's assumed for the fight the artifact used to come back is placed nearby so he can more or less use it as an extra life? Just taking a guess here.
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