"Let's Talk About Magic"-Part 2: Magic P&A/Potency Revision & Explanation Page

[Eseseso]

So... how is it gonna work?

In my second sandbox I listed a few non magic users who resist magic. I probably don't know every character who resists magic stuff like hellfire, so I welcome people to inform me but I would ask that they bring scans as support

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

In my second sandbox I listed a few non magic users who resist magic. I probably don't know every character who resists magic stuff like hellfire, so I welcome people to inform me but I would ask that they bring scans as support

Well Captain Marvel is one. She has resisted a spell from The traveller to age her I put as Age manipulation resistance on her profile

• Resistance to Age Manipulation (Resisted The Traveler's spell to kill her by aging her[43])

Resisting the attacks of Robbie

• Fire Manipulation (Unaffected by the fire of Ghost Rider[68]

She was fine after being hit by Penance stare

She can also absorb magic which sort of counts as resistance right?
magic[30]

Another thing that I'm curious about is Hulkling with his sword that nulls magic, would something change for him too?

 

[Eseseso]

Well Captain Marvel is one. She has resisted a spell from The traveller to age her I put as Age manipulation resistance on her profile

• Resistance to Age Manipulation (Resisted The Traveler's spell to kill her by aging her[43])

Resisting the attacks of Robbie

• Fire Manipulation (Unaffected by the fire of Ghost Rider[68]

She was fine after being hit by Penance stare

She can also absorb magic which sort of counts as resistance right?
magic[30]

Looks fine to me.

Another thing that I'm curious about is Hulkling with his sword that nulls magic, would something change for him too?

His power null would receive a huge boost in capability and potency.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Looks fine to me.

His power null would receive a huge boost in capability and potency.

How exacly is this gonna work for resistance? Does resisting magic in Marvel gonna give you a bunch of other resistances?

 

[Eseseso]

How exacly is this gonna work for resistance? Does resisting magic in Marvel gonna give you a bunch of other resistances?

It means you resist all the basic powers of magic.

 

[Eseseso]

I added Carol Danvers and moved the In-Betweener to the list of those who can use magic.

 

[Eseseso]

Does the abilities that aren't spelled out for us being High 1-B to Low 1-A just 4-D by default or what?

Btw, just to be sure on this, what do you think of the following giving 1 layer of the powers/resistances of basic magic P&A (Concept hax, space-time manip, info manip, soul manip, etc.) to High-Tier and Sorcerer Supreme level magicians?:

• All the powers of Lower-Level Sorcerers and Basic Magic on a far higher scale, enhanced Resistance to magic, and Resistance to Disease Manipulation and Poison Manipulation: Those who have practiced sorcery for years have built up magical antibodies within their bodies that protect them from magical poisons and sicknesses that would kill lower wizards. Also, sorcerers with this level of skill can resist magic attacks that would kill "minor mystics" in an instant. Also, it has also been shown that weapons and items that affect minor users of magic and/or basic magics do nothing to the magics of higher-tier sorcerers, who can also crack the magic wards of basic magic users with ease.
  • Resistance to Power Nullification: Even though nullifying magic is the signature power of soulblades like the sword and dagger, as they nullify magic energy, neutralize mystic beings, disrupt all magical spells and entities, banish demons in single strokes and destroy anything of magical origin, and can disrupt any arcane spell or entity. the skilled sorcerer Wong was able to easily block the Soulsword using magic without being affected at all, while also being capable of removing the Soulsword's own power. Similarly, the skilled sorcerer Doctor Doom also easily blocked the Soulsword with a magic shield without his enchantment being broken or negated. Also, it has also been shown that weapons and items that affect minor users of magic and/or basic magics do nothing to the magics of higher-tier sorcerers, who can also crack the magic wards of basic magic users with ease, and that more skilled sorcerers can easily resist the magics and negate the mystic resistances of those with only basic understandings of their magic power, especially as mystic skill and training is a prime factor in one's magic capabilities.
    • Note: The gap between high-tier sorcerers and those on the level of the Sorcerer Supreme (which are both described below) in terms of magic skill is consistently shown as far smaller than the gap between higher-tier sorcerers and the lower-tier/basic sorcerers and magic users. High tier sorcerers such as Doctor Doom and Baron Mordo have constantly been portrayed as comparable to Sorcerer Supremes (albeit still inferior), have fought them on relatively even terms in battles of magic, and/or have been shown to be capable of affecting them with magic spells despite their enhanced resistance to mystic attacks. Thus, high-tier sorcerers and mystics of the Sorcerer Supreme tier both share one layer of magic potency/resistance above baseline for all the P&A of Basic Magic.
    • Also, spells cast by incredibly powerful sorcerers (such as Umar) can only be dispelled/nullified by potent enough counter-spells cast by another sorcerer with enough magic power (such as Doctor Strange), indicating that strong enough spells and magicians can only have their magic nullified by a spell/magician of comparable power. In addition, Vincent Stevens just by flaring his aura increased his own unnatural luck enough to override the passive Supernatural Luck of a novice magician.[118]

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Just found this guy here Count Nefaria that does have magic resistance

 

[soulusboy]

I was already planning a Storm crt so this is some of what I've got on her magic if helps.

Storm descends from a line of godheads. Defeated Tarn the Uncaring within the Well Beyond the Worlds due to his own overconfidence and her knowledge of magic. Storm was one of the other High Priestess draws along with Scarlet Witch and Agatha Harkness. Has been trained by Ashake about using her abilities while astral projecting.

 

[Eseseso]

I was already planning a Storm crt so this is some of what I've got on her magic if helps.

Storm descends from a line of godheads. Defeated Tarn the Uncaring within the Well Beyond the Worlds due to his own overconfidence and her knowledge of magic. Storm was one of the other High Priestess draws along with Scarlet Witch and Agatha Harkness. Has been trained by Ashake about using her abilities while astral projecting.

It does help.

Seems even like it'd be enough to bump Storm up from Low-Level Sorceress to High-Tier Sorceress

 

[Theglassman12]

The magic revisions looks ok, plus with the comic panel for the norse stuff it helps solidify plot hax being blatant and it not being vague.

the 1 layer hax is fine given the showings of bypassing basic magic user resistances.

 

[Eseseso]

The magic revisions looks ok, plus with the comic panel for the norse stuff it helps solidify plot hax being blatant and it not being vague.

Thank you very much.

the 1 layer hax is fine given the showings of bypassing basic magic user resistances.

Thank you very much!

Just wanted to avoid having to get it double-checked in the layer revision thread and what not, so I greatly appreciate this.

 

[Theglassman12]

So long as you just get it evaluated in general in a CRT you should be fine, especially if it's a series that didn't have layered hax prior to the standard change.

 

[Eseseso]

So long as you just get it evaluated in general in a CRT you should be fine, especially if it's a series that didn't have layered hax prior to the standard change.

Noted.

Though with how inconsistent Marvel scaling is, magic stuff included, one layer was all I felt could be attained here.

 

[soulusboy]

I also found this instance of Apocalypse talking about the elements of magic if you don't already have it.

 

[Excellence616]

Hulk

• Devil Hulk shattered a shard that contains Nyx’s power and absorbs its power without any harm. Nyx is the Goddess of Night[22]
• Unharmed by Ghost Rider's hellfire[47]

Sentry (The Void):

• Void was able to use Doctor Strange's magic, even after they got separated.[33

and what of Beta Ray Bill who almost have similar powers as Thor

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

and what of Beta Ray Bill who almost have similar powers as Thor

If we are on Thor topic why not Jane Foster and War Thor

 

[Tomfer]

Don't know if it's worth anything;

Moon Knight, with Khonshu's artefacts, stole Doctor Strange's magic (Avengers Vol 8 33) and used to free Mephisto from Hotel Inferno and even used a bit in combat. (Avengers Vol 8 34)

 

[Eseseso]

Hulk

• Devil Hulk shattered a shard that contains Nyx’s power and absorbs its power without any harm. Nyx is the Goddess of Night[22]
• Unharmed by Ghost Rider's hellfire[47]

Added his resistance to Hellfire

Sentry (The Void):

• Void was able to use Doctor Strange's magic, even after they got separated.[33

Strange had lost the majority of his magic when the Void absorbed him due to Zelma using the Sands of Nishanti to null it, so I'm not sure.

He would have basic magic and resistance to high-tier sorcerery, since even Sorcerer Supreme Loki (Ikol) wasn't sure if they could beat him.

and what of Beta Ray Bill who almost have similar powers as Thor

No idea if he has the same Asgardian magic.

 

[Eseseso]

Btw, grace has passed and this thread has been unanimously accepted including by 5 voting staff members, so a huge thank you to everyone who made this possible!

I'll gradually edit pages one by one to make sure the additions are added properly (in addition to transferring all the contents of my sandbox to a new "official" page).

Wouldn't Doom's higher-end Absorption feats be performed through his Power Cosmic Siphon Harness, especially if Doom absorbing the Beyonder is directly referenced?

Yeah I just removed that part for your reasoning.

 

[Eseseso]

Here's the official page:

Magic (Marvel Comics)

There are many types of magic in the vast and complex history of Marvel Comics. However, while all the magic types are different to varying degrees, and some are definitely more well known than others, all share basic elements and powers (as well as basic potency that is likely...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Now to take things slow, I'd first like to have just the following pages opened:

Doctor Doom
Doctor Strange
Clea
Umar
Dormammu

After I get those done properly, I'll move on to the other ones.

 

[TartaChocholate]

This was... one hell of a read, I mean damn, my head is still spinning trying to grasp the sheer amount of story and lore that went into making all the Magic page. Excellent work, dude. I really mean it.

 

[Eseseso]

This was... one hell of a read, I mean damn, my head is still spinning trying to grasp the sheer amount of story and lore that went into making all the Magic page. Excellent work, dude. I really mean it.

Coming from someone who has made their own massive kick-ass sandboxes on the site, that really means a lot, so thank you my friend.

Sheer amount of story and lore is an understatement lol, I read over 500 issues bare minimum lol

 

[TartaChocholate]

Coming from someone who has made their own massive kick-ass sandboxes on the site, that really means a lot, so thank you my friend.

Sheer amount of story and lore is an understatement lol, I read over 500 issues bare minimum lol

Oh yeah, the scale of the research. I noticed when I finally reached the references the many issues that were used, and the many different artworks showed the many eras that were covered.

 

[Eseseso]

Oh yeah, the scale of the research. I noticed when I finally reached the references the many issues that were used, and the many different artworks showed the many eras that were covered.

It helps that I read literally every Doctor Strange issue I could find in his mainstream "storyline", from his first appearance in "Strange Tales (1951) #110" in 1963 to his most recent appearance in "Doctor Strange (2023) #14"

And the number of references wasn't even the max possible, it was just that all the scans already had the sources in the Imgur links so I decided after a while that, while the footnotes did make things look nicer, it wasn't totally necessary since it did eat up quite a bit of time.

 

[TartaChocholate]

It helps that I read literally every Doctor Strange issue I could find in his mainstream "storyline", from his first appearance in "Strange Tales (1951) #110" in 1963 to his most recent appearance in "Doctor Strange (2023) #14"

And the number of references wasn't even the max possible, it was just that all the scans already had the sources in the Imgur links so I decided after a while that, while the footnotes did make things look nicer, it wasn't totally necessary since it did eat up quite a bit of time.

Actually covering the complete storyline of a comic book character from beginning to it's most recent end. I hath believed such accomplisment beyond human capability.

Yeah, I see your point. With the huge number that accumulates as the document grows it becomes too time consuming and exhausting. Not to mention it makes it a pain to look at the code if you need to revisit to correct something.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Actually covering the complete storyline of a comic book character from beginning to it's most recent end. I hath believed such accomplisment beyond human capability.

Try read The assembly, they have 1 appearance it's easy to read from the beginning lol

 

[Eseseso]

Btw if there are any magic using/resisting Marvel characters I missed in my 2nd sandbox, feel free to lemme know before the thread closes so I can add it to their profiles.

 

[Tomfer]

Btw if there are any magic using/resisting Marvel characters I missed in my 2nd sandbox, feel free to lemme know before the thread closes so I can add it to their profiles.

Only one I can remember is the Black Knight and his Ebony Blade. It deflects magic and even absorbs if I remember correctly.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Executioner uses magic
Hellcat Resistance to magic
Nico Minoru Magic user

 

[Eseseso]

Executioner uses magic
Hellcat Resistance to magic

Honestly, while their profiles mention magic, neither provides any scans for it so I'm not sure if that should stay, since Skurge doesn't even seem like a magic user.

Nico Minoru Magic user

Thanks, since Minoru I know is a sorcereress (just look at her profile pic)

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Honestly, while their profiles mention magic, neither provides any scans for it so I'm not sure if that should stay, since Skurge doesn't even seem like a magic user.

I'm not sure either, I don't know them very well I just read a comic recently with She hulk and Hellcat and made me remember of her.

Thanks, since Minoru I know is a sorcereress (just look at her profile pic)

Minoru is not exacly big but it's somehow popular, although I'm not sure on what level she would get because she is limited by the staff to use only a spell only once.

 

[Eseseso]

I'm not sure either, I don't know them very well I just read a comic recently with She hulk and Hellcat and made me remember of her.

Minoru is not exacly big but it's somehow popular, although I'm not sure on what level she would get because she is limited by the staff to use only a spell only once.

She had a issue dedicated partially to her in the Mystic Arcana series, but yeah she has needed the staff to do magic IIRC

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

She had a issue dedicated partially to her in the Mystic Arcana series, but yeah she has needed the staff to do magic IIRC

I read runaways, and I know she even become a teacher on strange academy. I know her staff is a prison to a magic entity, actually her ancestors were much more powerful than the entity there they were the ones who locked him there, but Nico never unlocked her real power, but she does have magic "in her blood" so she is limited to the staff

 

[Eseseso]

I read runaways, and I know she even become a teacher on strange academy. I know her staff is a prison to a magic entity, actually her ancestors were much more powerful than the entity there they were the ones who locked him there, but Nico never unlocked her real power, but she does have magic "in her blood" so she is limited to the staff

So she resists magic naturally but needs the staff to use it.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

So she resists magic naturally but needs the staff to use it.

Actually she can use spells on her own but she is basically a newbie without it

 

[Eseseso]

Actually she can use spells on her own but she is basically a newbie without it

I'll put her at "Basic" without, "Low-Level" with.

 

[Eseseso]

Here's the official page:

Magic (Marvel Comics)

There are many types of magic in the vast and complex history of Marvel Comics. However, while all the magic types are different to varying degrees, and some are definitely more well known than others, all share basic elements and powers (as well as basic potency that is likely...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Now to take things slow, I'd first like to have just the following pages opened:

Doctor Doom
Doctor Strange
Clea
Umar
Dormammu

After I get those done properly, I'll move on to the other ones.

The additions look fine. Nice work with the research.

The proposals look fine.

Looks alright.

 

[Tomfer]

Almost 400 references...

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Almost 400 references...

What a fine job doing the research