Legendary Pokemon scaling (Anime)

[XXKINGXX69]

Continuation of this thread, except this is for the anime.

Note: Trainers scaling to anything Tier 2 will be discussed in a later thread, don't discuss them here yet.

The premise of this is to prove that Pokemon trainers can consistently scale to legendaries, and that we shouldn't say "its a non legendary so any feat of damaging legendaries is an outlier"

Here are many (almost all) occasions where trainers damage the following legendaries, or survive attacks from them, enough for it to justify that pokemon scaling to the legendary:
Bolded ones are for the legendary being affected by a super effective move, or a Pokemon taking a hit from a legendary that they resisted.

Articuno, Zapdos and Moltres​

Rocket Trio's Wobuffet reflects Articuno's Ice Beam, though Wobuffet is damaged

A battle frontier Articuno is knocked back by Ash's Charizard's Dragon Breath

A battle frontier Articuno is KO'd by Ash's Charizard's Seismic Toss

This Articuno's Ice Beam was overpowered by Ash's Charizard's Flamethrower

Zapdos gets sent flying far away by Ash's Hawlucha's High Jump Kick, even though Zapdos resists it

Zapdos is one shot by Ash's Noivern's Boomburst

Ash's Charizard's Flamethrower clashed with Moltres', they were almost on par with each other

A trained Salamence clashes equally with Moltres' Flamethrower, and then tanks its attack

Entei, Raikou and Suicune​

They are sent flying by a trained Zoroark's Night Daze

Raikou is badly harmed by Steelix's Dig

Latios and Latias​

Latios is damaged by Annie and Oakley's Espeon's Swift

Their Ariados can harm Latios and Latias

Ash's Pikachu one shots Latias after Aerodactyl grabs it and Latias can't escape

Latias takes damage from their Espeon's Psychic

Latias is one shotted by their Espeon's Psybeam

Tobias' Latios is defeated by Pikachu's Volt Tackle

Nurse Joy's Latias is sent flying by a trained Rhyperior's Megahorn

Regirock, Registeel and Regice​

Paul's Nidoking damages Brandon's Registeel with Earth Power

Paul's Nidoking knocks back and damages Brandon's Registeel with Double Kick

Ash's Torkoal harms Brandon's Registeel and forces it to guard itself

Ash's Torkoal used Flamethrower to clash explosively with Registeel's Zap Cannon

Ash's Torkoal used Heat Wave to push back Registeel's Sandstorm, which could push back Torkoal's Flamethrower

Ash's Torkoal jumped on Registeel, toppling it

Torkoal leaped off a wall, jumping on to Registeel and pushing it back

Ash's Torkoal used the power of Registeel's Sandstorm to spin Registeel, damaging it badly after that, though Torkoal is KOd after getting hit by Zap Cannon

Durability

Paul's Nidoking shakes off Brandon's Registeel's Flash Cannon

Torkoal with Iron Defense tanked a Zap Cannon from Brandon's Registeel

Torkoal leaped off a wall after being tossed by Registeel

Groudon and Kyogre​

Kyogre amped by the Red Orb fired a Hyperbeam that Lance's Gyarados held back for a few moments with his own Hyperbeam, before getting overpowered

Steven's Mega Metagross uses Flash Cannon which overpowers and knocks Primal Kyogre far back even though it resists the attack

Durability

Steven's Mega Metagross doesn't take too much damage from Primal Kyogre's Ice Beam

Steven's Mega Metagross takes a swipe from Primal Kyogre and was sent flying, though he wasn't that harmed

Heatran​

Team Galactic's Toxicroak was able to damage it enough for it to be caught in a Dusk Ball with Dig - Pokemon: The Hallowed God Arceus

Pikachu effortlessly slices threads that base Heatran couldn't even break out of - Pokemon: The Hallowed God Arceus

Reshiram​

Ash's Pikachu does a lot of damage to Reshiram with Thunderbolt

Mewtwo (Movie 16)​

Dirk's Escavalier sent Mewtwo flying back and harmed it with Energy Ball

Landorus, Thundurus, Tornados​

Iris' Dragonite, Cynthia's Garchomp and a trainer's Golurk pushed back Therian formes of Thundurus, Landorus and Tornadus respectively

Therian Landorus is knocked back from Iris' Dragonite's Ice Beam, though it doesn't take much damage

Durability

Iris' Dragonite took an Iron Tail from Therian Landorus without much damage

Cynthia's Garchomp likely tanked some of Therian Landorus' Stone Edge, as we see some smoke. Landorus' stone edge only explodes with smoke when it hits the enemy

Meloetta​

Ash's Krookodile shook off a Hyper Voice from Pirouette Meloetta

Genesect​

Pikachu's Thunderbolt equally matches Shiny Genesect's Signal Beam

Pikachu briefly holds back 2 Signal Beams from 2 Genesects before being overpowered

Yveltal

Ash's Pikachu clashes almost evenly with Oblivion Wing using Thunderbolt

This happens again, but Thunderbolt briefly overpowers Oblivion Wing, though Oblivion Wing quickly overpowers Thunderbolt instead

Pikachu's Thunderbolt clashes pretty evenly with Yveltal's Hyper Beam which can shatter Diancie's diamond

A trainer's Chesnaught clashes explosively with Yveltal's Hyper Beam with Pin Missile. As shown above, Yveltal's Hyperbeam doesn't explode on contact with everything, so this is actually a feat


About Ash's Pikachu being inconsistent:

Pikachu being inconsistent is greatly exaggerated. First of all, he holds back especially against wild Pokemon, as he doesn't like harming them much, to the point where he'd take a hit from other Pokemon to prevent wild Pokemon from getting hurt. Second, he rarely even gets defeated or overpowered by wild Pokemon Pikachu more consistently can one shot fully evolved Pokemon, here are just some of the many examples


One shots a Scrafty - Best Wishes
One shots team rocket's Weezing and Arbok, damages a Machamp and Rhydon early into the first few seasons
One shots a Rhydon even though its supposed to be immune to it - Orange Islands
One shots Sawyer's Aegislash which even as a Honedge can clash evenly with early Pikachu's Iron Tail - XY
Overpowers Sawyer's Mega Sceptile's Leaf Storm which could damage and send Pikachu himself flying - XY

Quick Attack

Clashes evenly with Paul's Electivire - Diamond and Pearl
Knocks back a trained Steelix even with its resistance

+ the examples in the legendary section scaling

Important: If you think Ash is still too inconsistent, name some anti feats below. I'll counter it with 2 better feats

Not many profiles will change for now, this is just to prove that we shouldn't automatically consider stuff an outlier if a trainer damages a legendary

 

[XXKINGXX69]

bump

 

[XXKINGXX69]

bump

 

[XXKINGXX69]

bump

 

[Blahblah9755]

Steven's Mega Metagross uses Flash Cannon which overpowers and knocks Primal Kyogre far back even though it resists the attack

This is base Metagross, not mega.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

This is base Metagross, not mega.

Ok

 

[speedster352]

here

 

[Jibz]

Ash's Pikachu does a lot of damage to Reshiram with Thunderbolt

This is the same Pikachu who lost to a trainer's untrained Snivy in the same gen. I smell "outlier" comments coming for alot of these statements.

 

[Sniper670]

This is the same Pikachu who lost to a trainer's untrained Snivy in the same gen. I smell "outlier" comments coming for alot of these statements.

That Pikachu and Ash shouldn't be taken seriously tbh. Some of the worst protagonist duo in the history of anime

They reset Pikachu stats each season yet he can somehow stand against legendaries and still lose to much weaker opponents in the same season.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

This is the same Pikachu who lost to a trainer's untrained Snivy

That's just 1 instance, might as well bring up harming Arceus

They reset Pikachu stats each season

This is completely made up, people only say this because of the snivy instance, which wasn't even a wild Snivy, a drained Pikachu

 

[Sniper670]

This is completely made up, people only say this because of the snivy instance, which wasn't even a wild Snivy, a drained Pikachu

Pikachu should be one shotting literally any Pokémon if he was keeping his stats from so many seasons ngl.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Pikachu should be one shotting literally any Pokémon if he was keeping his stats from so many seasons ngl.

This is not true, he doesn't even go all out against wild Pokemon, and he doesn't one shot others because they're just strong

 

[Sniper670]

and he doesn't one shot others because they're just strong

Even starter Pokémon from rookie trainers? let's forget the part where Ash and Pikachu have made it through a ton of leagues

They get reset ngl.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Even starter Pokémon from rookie trainers?

Name 2 times he couldn't beat starter Pokemon from "rookie trainers"

let's forget the part where Ash and Pikachu have made it through a ton of leagues

What?

 

[Epsilon_R]

So Pikachu harming a legendary near the end of the saga is somehow an outlier because he got defeated by a starter in the first 2 episodes?

 

[Jibz]

Didn't Pikachu struggle with a hobo wild scorbunny in journeys lol

 

[XXKINGXX69]

So Pikachu harming a legendary near the end of the saga is somehow an outlier because he got defeated by a starter in the first 2 episodes?

Most people who think Pikachu is inconsistent just haven't watched the series

 

[Jibz]

So Pikachu harming a legendary near the end of the saga is somehow an outlier because he got defeated by a starter in the first 2 episodes?

Your twisting the narrative. The point is throughout the series his power level as been extremely inconsistent.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Didn't Pikachu struggle with a hobo wild scorbunny in journeys lol

Pikachu stomped the scorbunny tho

 

[Jibz]

Pikachu stomped the scorbunny tho

The Scorbunny equalized Pikachu's bumrush, and dodged Pikachu's attacks. As a wild hobo.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Didn't Pikachu lose to a hobo wild scorbunny in journeys lol

It was Goh's, who is no rookie trainer, so not an anti feat. Pokemon have shown to grow really strong even without much training if their trainer is just that good. When Pikachu got serious, he just one shots Scorbunny. Pikachu also has more consistent feats like just smacking away a Hitmontop

 

[XXKINGXX69]

The Scorbunny equalized Pikachu's bumrush, and dodged Pikachu's attacks. As a wild hobo.

Even starter Pokémon from rookie trainers? let's forget the part where Ash and Pikachu have made it through a ton of leagues

They get reset ngl.

I edited the OP, for every anti feat you mention, I'll bring up 2 better feats to counter it

 

[Jibz]

It was Goh's

prior to him catching it iirc

who is no rookie trainer, so not an anti feat

Wasn't its trainer at the time iirc

Pikachu got serious, he just one shots Scorbunny.

Yeah, after the Scorbunny got knocked out by running into a ****** bin lol (it's already consistently dodged Pikachu's attacks before, deadass running from Pikachu's 100,000 volts attack)

Pikachu also has more consistent feats like just smacking away a Hitmontop

Is Hitmontop comparable to the likes of Arceus and Reshiram now?

 

[Sniper670]

It was Goh's, who is no rookie trainer, so not an anti feat.

Goh is a rookie. He's better now, but he's got nothing on Ash in experience

Pokemon have shown to grow really strong even without much training if their trainer is just that good. When Pikachu got serious, he just one shots Scorbunny.

And he'll struggle with Pokémon Scarlet/Purple starters because reasons

For real, how many leagues now. Beating rookie starters should be a non issue

 

[Sniper670]

I edited the OP, for every anti feat you mention, I'll bring up 2 better feats to counter it

Now you see why Ash/Pikachu shouldn't be taken seriously?

Inconsistencies, PIS, Outliers, you name it. Ash got it all

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Is Hitmontop comparable to the likes of Arceus and Reshiram now?

I didn't say he was based off of that, and I didn't argue Pikachu scaling to Arceus here

Goh is a rookie. He's better now, but he's got nothing on Ash in experience

And he'll struggle with Pokémon Scarlet/Purple starters because reasons

For real, how many leagues now. Beating rookie starters should be a non issue

Now you see why Ash/Pikachu shouldn't be taken seriously?

Inconsistencies, PIS, Outliers, you name it. Ash got it all

Ok, name some of these inconsistencies since you love them so much

Goh ain't no rookie, man has a Pokemon that can survive Eternatus' attacks even though it had less than 1 season of training

 

[Jibz]

I didn't say he was based off of that, and I didn't argue Pikachu scaling to Arceus here

That's just 1 instance, might as well bring up harming Arceus

kek, also nicely disregarding me dissecting and breaking down all the falsehoods you had in your post. I've proven Pikachu is incredibly inconsistent, him being able to fight Hitmontop doesn't change that.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Ash's Pikachu should get a Varies

 

[Jibz]

So he goes from harming legendaries, to struggling with an untrained wild pokemon, and your compromise is that he "varies". Lol that makes sense. (it doesnt)

 

[XXKINGXX69]

kek, also nicely disregarding me dissecting and breaking down all the falsehoods you had in your post. I've proven Pikachu is incredibly inconsistent, him being able to fight Hitmontop doesn't change that.

I didn't argue that he consistently scales to Arceus though, I was only using that to say we might as well use his feat of harming Arceus if you take a 1 time snivy thing seriously

I've proven Pikachu is incredibly inconsistent

All you did was bring up 1 anti feat, I brought up at least 8 feats to counter it.

One shots a Scrafty - Best Wishes
One shots team rocket's Weezing and Arbok, damages a Machamp and Rhydon early into the first few seasons
One shots a Rhydon even though its supposed to be immune to it - Orange Islands
One shots Sawyer's Aegislash which even as a Honedge can clash evenly with early Pikachu's Iron Tail - XY
Overpowers Sawyer's Mega Sceptile's Leaf Storm which could damage and send Pikachu himself flying - XY

Quick Attack

Clashes evenly with Paul's Electivire - Diamond and Pearl
Knocks back a trained Steelix even with its resistance

Iron Tail

Knocks away a Hitmontop

 

[Jibz]

I didn't argue that he consistently scales to Arceus though, I was only using that to say we might as well use his feat of harming Arceus if you take a 1 time snivy thing seriously

I didn't tell you too take it seriously? It shows that the inconsistensy in Pikachu's power scaling is self-evident

All you did was bring up 1 anti feat, I brought up at least 8 feats to counter it.

Two actually, and do any of these pokemon scale to Reshiram?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Ash's Pikachu should get a Varies

We don't add that for characters that hold back unless they explicitly hold back to the same tier of power like marvel characters

 

[Sniper670]

I could find twice as many anti feats of Ash if I go dig around, but ok

 

[Sniper670]

So he goes from harming legendaries, to struggling with an untrained wild pokemon, and your compromise is that he "varies". Lol that makes sense. (it doesnt)

Every season.... He'd struggle against Scarlet/Purple starters I bet

Its like he gets reset every time

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I didn't tell you too take it seriously? It shows that the inconsistensy in Pikachu's power scaling is self-evident

Then why bring it up? I also provided more feats, so its not as inconsistent as you think

Two actually, and do any of these pokemon scale to Reshiram?

I didn't use Hitmontop to say he consistently scales to Reshiram, I used it to say he consistently scales above even fully evolved Pokemon, so using dumb anti feats that would put him at starter Pokemon level is just not valid. And for the record, this Aegislash scales far above Zapdos at least, as he could one shot Noivern, who can send Zapdos flying with 1 attack

 

[Jibz]

I didn't use Hitmontop to say he consistently scales to Reshiram, I used it to say he consistently scales above even fully evolved Pokemon, so using dumb anti feats that would put him at starter Pokemon level is just not valid.

So because he can fight fully evolved fighters, the fact Pikachu struggles with untrained pokemon doesn't mean anything and that scaling him to Reshiram is totally consistent

And for the record, this Aegislash scales far above Zapdos at least, as he could one shot Noivern, who can send Zapdos flying with 1 attack

I won't comment on this because i have literally no clue where the second gif comes from, nor am i knowledgeable enough to indeed comment on it.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

So because he can fight fully evolved fighters, the fact Pikachu struggles with untrained pokemon doesn't mean anything and that scaling him to Reshiram is totally consistent

I won't comment on this because i have literally no clue where the second gif comes from, nor am i knowledgeable enough to indeed comment on it.

I have repeatedly told you that Pikachu doesn't consistently struggle with untrained Pokemon, Scorbunny is just 1 instance compared to many others where Pikachu doesn't. Do you agree with putting pikachu at city block level now?

 

[Jibz]

Jesus you keep twisting my words. I'm not saying he's consistently struggling with untrained pokemon, reread my message

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Jesus you keep twisting my words. I'm not saying he's consistently struggling with untrained pokemon, reread my message

Then why bring it up at all? And I'm assuming this means you agree with Reshiram scaling at the very least?

 

[Jibz]

You're so dense. Whatever, i've stated my stance. I disagree. And with that i'll bid adieu.