Layer's vs scaling chains.

[Huesito88]

Idk what you're referring to, sorry.

Basically the 1000 scaling chain, except replace 1000 with infinity resulting in well "infinite layers"

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Basically the 1000 scaling chain, except replace 1000 with infinity resulting in well "infinite layers"

I guess?? It's still not 100% clear what you're referring to.

 

[Huesito88]

I guess?? It's still not 100% clear what you're referring to.

That's a scaling chain that 4 long and people claim it's 4 layers.

A > B > C > D > E

Now replace the number 4 (how long it is) with infinity. (And well I can't really show a infinity long scaling chain)

 

[Eseseso]

I think we should list some of the worst examples of the issue that the OP is combating.

Like some of the "infinite layer" stuff people have mentioned.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

That's a scaling chain that 4 long and people claim it's 4 layers.

A > B > C > D > E

Now replace the number 4 (how long it is) with infinity. (And well I can't really show a infinity long scaling chain)

I mean yeah, ofc the thread is dealing with that. Why wouldn't it?

 

[Theglassman12]

with the new thread in the staff discussion, is there anything left for this thread or should I close it?

 

[ShionAH]

What if we forced people to write the layers on the profile with CRTs? Wouldnt it stop this whole abusing thing since it would have to be accepted beforehand?

 

[Huesito88]

What if we forced people to write the layers on the profile with CRTs? Wouldnt it stop this whole abusing thing since it would have to be accepted beforehand?

someone already tried doing that, but.... yeah

 

[SeijiSetto]

What if we forced people to write the layers on the profile with CRTs? Wouldnt it stop this whole abusing thing since it would have to be accepted beforehand?

this is how it should be anyway tbf
i.e
Gravity Manipulation (7 Layers - [justification])

 

[Eseseso]

What if we forced people to write the layers on the profile with CRTs? Wouldnt it stop this whole abusing thing since it would have to be accepted beforehand?

I wouldn't be opposed to that.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

What if we forced people to write the layers on the profile with CRTs? Wouldnt it stop this whole abusing thing since it would have to be accepted beforehand?

This is absolutely the best solution but there's no way in hell that's happening. Getting staff to change the profile formatting standards is like pulling teeth.

 

[ShionAH]

This is absolutely the best solution but there's no way in hell that's happening. Getting staff to change the profile formatting standards is like pulling teeth.

Hmm would they be opposed to just making a note asking people to write layers on the profiles?

The explanation part for the standart profiles was supposed to be where we explain the layers, dimensionality and etc. So that part is already covered

 

[LordGinSama]

Hmm would they be opposed to just making a note asking people to write layers on the profiles?

That's part of the proposal.

 

[ShionAH]

That's part of the proposal.

Nice, I agree with the CRT

 

[Tatsumi504]

this is how it should be anyway tbf
i.e
Gravity Manipulation (7 Layers - [justification])

Regarding this specific example, doesn't gravity hax fall under an ability which can be quantified like fire manipulation?

 

[SeijiSetto]

Regarding this specific example, doesn't gravity hax fall under an ability which can be quantified like fire manipulation?

fair point actually
though there is a difference between WITHSTANDING gravity hax (lifting strength) and resisting/being immune to it, which is what layers would be for?
i get what you're saying though, just imagine i said mind or soul hax or powernull or something

 

[Makai641001]

Not going to name names, but I will name verses. NNT is prolly the biggest abuser of this.

Name individuals not entire verses if u really want to do shit about it + i doubt this thread was made specifically about NNT.

 

[Makai641001]

Now this is a subject that's becoming increasingly more annoying to deal with, namely because of how easily abused "layers" are made out to be.


The Issue

---

Let's get right into it shall we? As we all know people tend to abuse layers to inflate a characters powers and abilities while simultaneously confusing a scaling chain for layers of negation, some some verses even having a supposed "100 layers." which is ridiculous to even think.

I keep seeing the term layered being thrown around for power's and abilities, which typically leads to inflation. Such as nonsense like "Steve>>>>> Paul >>>> Todd >>> Gregory>>>>> Amanda >>>>> Bob >>>>>> Frank >>>> Ralph's fear manipulation." being passed as actual layers. The issue with this however is that this shouldn't qualify for layered hax. That's just a simple scaling chain, which doesn't necessarily mean anyone of the aforementioned characters are capable of outright negating the other's resistances.


Actual layers would be whenever character A bypasses the resistances of character B who's resistance allowed them to withstand fire's that teach temperature hotter than the core of the sun.



For something to be considered layered it should be stated or shown that a character can bypass another's resistance. Not just "character A being stronger than character B so that means A can automatically bypass B's resistance despite A never being shown to be able to do so." As this leads to a massive amount of inflation for the simple sake of inflation to make things seem more impressive than they really are. There's at least 12 separate verses that abuses this issue but I won't be naming them of course.


The Solution?

---

Stop allowing these scaling chains to be passed as layers. In order to qualify for layered hax it should be outright stated that a character can bypass another's resistance, not just them being stronger.



Essentially, a resistance needs to be shown being overcome in order to be truly layered.



Feel free to discuss.

Agreed i don’t even think it should be discussed

 

[Jaakor48]

fair point actually
though there is a difference between WITHSTANDING gravity hax (lifting strength) and resisting/being immune to it, which is what layers would be for?
i get what you're saying though, just imagine i said mind or soul hax or powernull or something

Even when it comes to mind hax, how will layers work?

Is telepath A > Telepath B is that a layer?

Cuz if Mr A has psychic blocks that resists telepath B nut gets mind blasted by telepath A, that's also scaling right?


Or is it like if Mr A is immune to telepathy and then telepath A hits him, he gets a layer?

 

[Epsilon_R]

A layer is basically each time you bypass a resistance.

Being superior is just upscaling

 

[Jaakor48]

A layer is basically each time you bypass a resistance.

Being superior is just upscaling

But when it comes to something like mind control, so many people have varying levels of resistance

Is there a baseline or something for it?

Eg, if you can resist a psylocke (Betsie Braddock)-level telepath then any telepath who can bypass that level gets one layer?

 

[MusicRelaxing]

Maybe they cab put it as another note, similarly to how the bleach peeps put the attack potency, though it will likely look messy

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

Really wish layers were listed on individual profiles, but I know that's be a Herculean task to pull off. Should have been done years ago when there weren't as many profiles.