Lavos vs Scion

[TriforcePower1]

Big monstrous alien beings that parasite planets and gave humans special abilities just to then wipe them out and taking back their powers that humans bettered in the meantime.

Yeah, I couldn't not do it.

5-A Lavos vs strongest Scion

I think the low-end is the chosen end for Lavos speed, so it's equalized. If the high-end was actually chosen, then I'll not equalize it because 30 millions c isn't even 5x of 7 millions c (and it's not like speed matters all that much here anyway)

Genes and Magic:

Quirky Stands:

ThunderNess-682:

 

[Promestein]

I dunno what Scion can do about Lavos copying his entire set of powers or BFR'ing him to the darkness beyond time

 

[Schnee_One]

<Only multi universal range

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[TriforcePower1]

From what Wok told me, Scion should be able to prevent other Lavoses to come into the universe they're fighting in.

 

[Schnee_One]

They don't come into the universe, they effectively just BFR you from where they are

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Yeah i don't see how this isn't a stomp. Lavos can just power mimicry>BFR. Or BFR from the past, or from another universe.

 

[DMUA]

Scion uses Sting, ripping through Lavos and killing him to death, nullifying his ability to bring in dupes

Dupes from 2-A range BFR him to he end of time

This didn't spontaneously start being fair off discord

 

[DMUA]

I dunno what Scion can do about Lavos copying his entire set of powers or BFR'ing him to the darkness beyond time

To be fair, Scion has several sets of power "immunity" that would deal with power copy

I don't think he has anything against BFR or nulling that resistance but at the very least Lavos doesn't get an entire verse of powers

 

[Wokistan]

I'm not entirely sure Lavos can actually perceive Scion, given how the entity already has every stranger power and even the avatar ****** with perceptive powers like The Simurgh and Clairvoyant couldn't notice the actual entity.

Lavos weirdly doesn't seem to resist power null, and as shown by Glaistig Uaine cape powers that block indirect effects already exist, so between that, stilling, and the massive number of other power nulls that exist, Entity Scion may actually be off limits here. PtV can tell him to do as much, after killing a large number with Sting.

 

[DMUA]

Stranger powers are fair game, but Lavos has more than enough range to hit Entity scion, while Scion has no real way to hit all of Lavos

 

[Wokistan]

All the other power nulls stacked on to one another, prime Stilling, and that weird reflection shit Glaistig Uaine used should be able to make Entity Scion impossible to actually affect with the powers though. Sure they have range but they don't resist the nullification/reflection. Entity Scion's weird area was already removed from the regular multiverse iirc

Scion can't really kill Lavos, no. It could prevent Lavos from influencing it for a while while killing some Lavoses with Sting, but not all of them. Could count as an incap if you argue it right

 

[DMUA]

What reflection stuff are you referring to?

I don't quite remember that specific scene, it's been a bit

 

[Wokistan]

Glaistig Uaine uses what's described as a "Vulgar looking woman" to create this reflection field that also worked on things that aren't really directly attacks like Canary singing. Speck 30.4

It's not that alone though, it's also that Scion can just use it's many, many power null abilities stacked on to this, including the Stilling power that's a cut above those, and Lavos doesn't have any resistances listed in this key at all. Between several forms of power null, resistance breaking power null, weird reflection, many forms of precog, the power to just know what the correct action to do is, and an opponent with no resistances, it seems that Lavos' influence can just be shut out manually as the first 2-B number of them die to Sting.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Pretty sure almost none of that matters since Lavos has his 2-A cosmic awareness and can also attack Scion and copy him from the past and future.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Also, you can't reflect BFR, at least not with the evidence you gave there. Specially if it's like Lavos's BFR, aka i think you blink.

 

[Wokistan]

That wouldn't get around stuff that just takes Scion out of what can be perceived at all though, another thing that's not resisted. Every stranger power is every stranger power. Being able to see more universes wouldn't change that.

Scion also resists power copying anyways, the avatar couldn't be mimicked by Grue so I don't think the full entity is going to be able to either.

 

[DMUA]

In the case of someone like Imp, they can just make Lavos forget Scion exists despite looking directly at them, just to name one thing Lavos doesn't seem to counter

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Lavos doesn't just see all universes, he sees all time periods, all alternative selfs across time and space.

And this is a incon at most anyway. Lavos is still very much alive and active, eventually going to become Time Devorer.

 

[Wokistan]

There's also those like Nice Guy and August Prince, who cause you to just not attack even if you do perceive them.

Also Shamrock couldn't be tracked by Clairvoyant, Scion already ***** with people's stuff like this with an example being The Simurgh, and all the thinker powers he has can also cause some problems.

 

[Wokistan]

That still doesn't mean it randomly bypasses powers it has no resistance to, given that these stranger powers are passive things and that The Simurgh also can do this except not over 2-A so the temporal aspect isn't really new.

Well it may be active and all but it's unable to affect the Warrior Entity for whatever period of time BFR/Incap is, while the reverse isn't true. Lavos dupes can still be killed, but it's inconsequential.

 

[Wokistan]

Also, you can't reflect BFR, at least not with the evidence you gave there. Specially if it's like Lavos's BFR, aka i think you blink.

There are other damage transference powers as well. King (Worm) could somehow reflect The Gray Boy's power, which is just "I think you're stuck in a time loop for thousands of years". I guess it just would loop some random dude King touched. This stuff can get pretty indirect.

 

[DMUA]

King (Worm) could somehow reflect The Gray Boy's power

excuse me what

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

I'm seriously questioning why Lavos doesn't resist anything wtf.

And i mean Lavos can eventually become Dream Devorer and then Time Devorer so idk about that.

 

[DMUA]

would those boosts actually allow him to be able to get around Scion's stranger powers, somehow? If not this'll just be an eternal incon

 

[Wokistan]

That's how he had what Jack described as a limited measure of control over Gray Boy. Gray Boy couldn't just turn on him.

King had a flimsy hold, Jack had a stronger hold. The former Gray Boy was closer to a Labyrinth in full-on powers mode than anything else. Using powers indiscriminately, staying within an area. King was effectively immune to him, and used this to introduce himself and start leading him around.
	~ Wildbow​

 

[DMUA]

OH OKAY THEN JUST CASUALLY ATTACK REFLECT BILLION YEAR LONG TIME LOOPS HUH WILDBOW

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

@DMUA

Mate Time Devorer is 2-A likely Low 1-C.

What do you think?

Also i think Lavos's BFR/Time/Space hax is 2-A sooo

 

[Wokistan]

Can reflect that, can't reflect an invisible knife up the nose because some nerd is helping out

10/10 king

 

[DMUA]

I think tiering doesn't necessarily mean you have new resistances or higher dimensional status

dunno if it's Lavos' page being bad that he doesn't have Higher Dimensional existence but

 

[Wokistan]

I'm seriously questioning why Lavos doesn't resist anything wtf.

And i mean Lavos can eventually become Dream Devorer and then Time Devorer so idk about that.

Yeah that struck me as odd

How long does that take though

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

>no Higher D existence

>Time Devorer has type 9 immortality

I'm gonna eat myself i swear to god.

That would mean his power null is useless though, since even if Lavos isn't 4-D, the potency of his powers are, so he just kind of eats the universe.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

@Wokistan

That's hard to answer, since Lavos exists across time. For all we know it would take between millions of years and not very much.

 

[TriforcePower1]

5-A Lavos can only become the Dream Devourer/Time Devourer by absorbing Schala, so he's not going to change tiers mid-match.

Also, about the "Scion resists a lot of powers", Lavos "Can void immunities" (Curse is too much of an annoying gameplay element to be forgotten lol).

 

[TriforcePower1]

And about Imp's power, I would like to note that Lavos was seemingly able to read the dreams of every person in Zeal and seemingly grant wishes. Mind sensing like Cherish's could bypass Imp's ability.

 

[DMUA]

ah

still wouldn't counter the likes of Nice Guy, who you just kinda register as a normal upstanding dude if you're caught by his powers

 

[TriforcePower1]

Assuming Lavos wouldn't want to kill a normal upstanding dude

 

[DMUA]

Well in Lavos' case he'd probably register them as a fellow genocidal maniac

in his first appearance, which isn't really a big spoiler, he basically shows up, Taylor is told over comms to murder the guy in front of her and she keeps assuming they're referring to someone else, until Grue covers the room in darkness and Imp stabs them

 

[Wokistan]

@Triforce

It's not even resistances (though he has those), it's several types of power null and redirection, some of which already ignore resistances, stakced on top of one another. Entities themselves can also remove resistances and give resistances anyways. They can **** with shards to do this. They impose the resistances in the first place so the users don't instantly kill themselves with their powers, and can also add more or revoke them.

As for the Imp power thing, it's not like The Simurgh and her being in everyone's head meant she could overcome that her precog couldn't see avatar scion. (She could predict everything else though, so could just predict scion via interference the old fashioned way). Getting into the entity's head isn't likely to work.

Cherish also could sense only her emotions and nothing else

@crimson Make Cal fix lavos' file so I can argue that stuff properly

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Lavos doesn't discrimitate. He kills everything.

 

[Wokistan]

There's still august prince, where you don't attack him even if you want to that embarrassed Taylor