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Ok season 4 is over, now I can finally talk about this!
So currently. Ladybug and Cat Noir are currently listed as High 7C, with their powers bumping them to around high 5A (well, presumably on Cat Noirs calcs).
But Im going to argue that their ranking should be bumped up to at least 3A...Their powers that is.
Lmao Ladybug and Cat Noir are physically 3A? Yeah no way
So in Ephemeral, we now finally have a basic understanding of how the Miraculous Wish works...
[Transcript from taken from Ephemeral on the Miraculous Ladybug Wikipedia]
Sass: Imagine the world as your school notebook. Everything inside is written in blue, but now you want it to be red instead. Before you can rewrite anything in the color you'd like, you have to erase everything that's already been written in blue!
Barkk: That's what happens when someone makes a wish! The universe is destroyed, and then entirely rebuilt! But who knows how...
While this does imply (and rightfully so) that the Miraculous wish is a Universe+ level of power, note how Barkk summarises the the power...
"Entirely" is the key word in this statement, as the wish doesn't merely warp the universe's reality, but rather remakes the entire thing from the ground up..
So from this understanding, this means the following.
But should that level of power be applied to Ladybug and Cat Noir? I mean, they haven't shown any power level in that series (at least presumably).
Well, yes, and I do have a few reasons.
So yeah, this is my big crazy CRT for Miraculous Ladybug. I think that Ladybug's and Cat Noir's superpowers (specifically their Lucky Charm and Cataclysm should scale to 3A, potentially higher.
Big Change I know, but I had to give my case.
Ok, so now for me to answer some possible counter arguments being answered:
But to answer this question, there's a few factors to consider in this situation.
But if you are arguing in terms of their actual superpowers, well its not exactly outside the realm of possibility since we already know at this point that the Miraculous Wish is capable of destroying then creating a universe. Not to mention we already accepted this level of power when we gave Cat Blanc a possible low-2C rating despite the feat given for it being somewhat questionable, and even using said tiering for some vs fights.
So currently. Ladybug and Cat Noir are currently listed as High 7C, with their powers bumping them to around high 5A (well, presumably on Cat Noirs calcs).
But Im going to argue that their ranking should be bumped up to at least 3A...Their powers that is.
Ok, so... Why do I think that LB and CN should be bumped to 3A?
So in Ephemeral, we now finally have a basic understanding of how the Miraculous Wish works...
[Transcript from taken from Ephemeral on the Miraculous Ladybug Wikipedia]
Sass: Imagine the world as your school notebook. Everything inside is written in blue, but now you want it to be red instead. Before you can rewrite anything in the color you'd like, you have to erase everything that's already been written in blue!
Barkk: That's what happens when someone makes a wish! The universe is destroyed, and then entirely rebuilt! But who knows how...
While this does imply (and rightfully so) that the Miraculous wish is a Universe+ level of power, note how Barkk summarises the the power...
The universe is destroyed, and then entirely rebuilt!
"Entirely" is the key word in this statement, as the wish doesn't merely warp the universe's reality, but rather remakes the entire thing from the ground up..
So from this understanding, this means the following.
- The wish is a two part process, with the universe being first destroyed, then rebuilt. Either feat would be considered at least 3A.
- It is likely Tikki and Plagg's specific powers are what allow the wish to work. Plagg's power destroys the universe, while Tikki's power rebuilts it.
- While it is stated that Plagg and Tikki's miraculouses are needed to use the spell, it isn't stated that fusing the two miraculous would make their abilities stronger when fused (ala Dragon Ball), merely that the two miraculouses and their powers are needed to perform the wish.
But should that level of power be applied to Ladybug and Cat Noir? I mean, they haven't shown any power level in that series (at least presumably).
Well, yes, and I do have a few reasons.
Kwami's are essentially power sources for their chosen wielders
The kwami's function as the source of the heroes powers, both as the magic suits and as the main superpower each hero has, so naturally they should scale.A Kwami using their power is the same as when the user uses their power, but its just with less control.
As stated by Multiple Characters such as Master FuBy other Kwami's[In Style Queen,]
Plagg: ...it's just me that's able to help you out!
Master Fu: No! It's out of the question, Plagg! You are way too dangerous without an owner!
I feel the need to restate this, because any display of power the kwami's are capable of doing, the heroes can likely do as well, its just that they would normally be able to control it a lot better. Its the reason why Cat Noir can use cataclysm to do something precise as cause a bus to go out of control instead of being obliterated, unlike Plagg who almost destroyed Paris in the Style Queen Episode despite trying to hold back. (I can provide sources later when asked, I just have too much to write right now.(Trixx prepares his power.)
Wayzz: You really shouldn't be doing this, Trixx!
Barkk: (frantically) Remember the last time you used your power of Illusion without a holder?
Trixx: (determined) Marinette must not reveal her secret. Mirage!
While not exactly the same as the miraculous wish in terms of scope, each superpower the heroes have (+Kwami's) are virtually the same in nature to the process behind the miraculous wish.
Assuming we take Barkk's words at face value, that means that the universe is both destroyed, then (re)created, which isn't too far from how the heroes powers usually work. Lucky Charm can be used to create any item desired or needed (often bypassing the laws of conservation of energy doing so), while Cataclysm can be used to destroy anything it that it touches. Its just the same powers but on a grander scale. And Tikki has been show to be able to use the Lucky Charm power to create exactly what she wants rather that being given a random item as seen in the Dearest Family episode.We've already (kinda) seen this power in Ladybug.
Although not exactly true feats, Ladybug was capable of doing some crazy hax shit even seen within the first season of MLB, such as merging her past and future selves in Time-breaker and Cat Blanc, which also prevented the time paradox that would have occurred (with LB going back to stop Time-breaker/Cat Blanc, the future LB should have been erased, or potentially cause damage to time itself, though we don't know for sure what would occur). Speaking of Cat Blanc...Ladybug and Cat Noir should scale (or downscale) to Cat Blanc
Alright, I know this is crazy, but hear me out.- Cat Blanc could use his version of Cataclysm in many different ways compared to Cat Noir, sure. But we already know Hawkmoth's akuma's are capable of modifying an akumatized miraculous's powers, as seen with Queen Wasp/Miracle Queen, where he replaced Venom's single use effects with Wasps that can do the same thing.
- The power boost from an akuma has been shown multiple times to be weaker when a miraculous wielder is akumatized. Crazy to believe I know, but it has been demonstrated in show as Queen Wasp was beaten by Ladybug and Cat Noir in season 2, and that was despite having the combined power of the Bee Miraculous and the akuma, and while Queen Wasp did have the heroes on the run for the most part, it was only due to the hax that her wasps provided. This occurred again in Miracle Queen, though this time with the heroes having fused miraculouses, but neither hero nor villain showed any notable increase in power, beyond just being able to use two powers (heroes) or having an already modified one (Miracle Queen).
- Following off that last note, Cat Blanc durability's was more or less the same as Ladybug's despite being supposedly enhanced, since the latter could easily break the parts on his suit such as his belt and bell.
- It you considered that Ladybug/Cat Noir's power was the same or close in strength to Chat Blanc's, it could be argued that the "Infinite Destruction" Hawkmoth gave to Cat Blanc was an enhancement to his deconstruction and corrosion hax, since Cataclysm normally wasn't able to disintegrate miraculous wielders normally, but Cat Blanc's could.
- But if you don't consider that Ladybug and Cat Noir should scale to Cat Blanc, that's fine as well, but I would like to argue that with the miraculous wish being, at minimum, a 3A feat, it wouldn't be too far to say that the heroes at least downscale, as while the Miraculous Wish can destroy/rebuild a single timeline, Cat Blanc could do it on a multi-timeline scale, as seen in Cat Blanc when he nearly destroyed multiple timelines in Bunnyx's Burrow, even before he used his galaxy dwarfing Mega-Cataclysm.
So yeah, this is my big crazy CRT for Miraculous Ladybug. I think that Ladybug's and Cat Noir's superpowers (specifically their Lucky Charm and Cataclysm should scale to 3A, potentially higher.
Big Change I know, but I had to give my case.
Ok, so now for me to answer some possible counter arguments being answered:
What about Miraculer? In that episode, Cat Noir got hit with a cataclysm from Miraculer, who stole his power, but he survived being hit by it twice! How do you explain that, or are the heroes now physically 3A?
Well for starters, we already disapproved heroes downscaling to Cataclysm back in this post. Yes I was a supporter back, but I've since seen the error of my ways.But to answer this question, there's a few factors to consider in this situation.
- As explained prior, the heroes can control the level of power of their abilities, so the strength of the hero's powers can vary greatly according to the wielders, even Cataclysm.
- Hawkmoth, and by extension Miraculer, did not know how truly powerful cataclysm was (since Hawkmoth did not posses the translated grimoire at this time), so its likely they assumed the power was just town level and adjusted it accordingly (at least subconsciously). Alternatively, you could argue that when Miraculer takes someone's power, its weaker than when the heroes themselves use it, though this just an assumption at this point.
- Even then, all miraculous heroes have resistance to deconstruction and corrosion, so while Cataclysm could be potentially 3A, the hero's resistances are just too strong for cataclysm to affect them, even if their actual durability is much weaker.
The hero's can't be 3A. That's way above their usual feats.
Of course not. I am saying their powers are.But if you are arguing in terms of their actual superpowers, well its not exactly outside the realm of possibility since we already know at this point that the Miraculous Wish is capable of destroying then creating a universe. Not to mention we already accepted this level of power when we gave Cat Blanc a possible low-2C rating despite the feat given for it being somewhat questionable, and even using said tiering for some vs fights.
Cat Noir can't scale to Cat Blanc, Cat Blanc was way stronger.
I'm not saying he isn't stronger, but it is possible that the increase in strength could also be more hax based that it was a straight power amp, and Hawkmoth's akumas have been shown to modify a miraculous wielders powers before beyond what they normally can do. And besides, even if Cat Noir doesn't truly scale to Blanc, their is some arugement to say that Cat Noir's Cataclysm does at least downscale to Chat Blanc's own, since the ring's power is already known to be used in a spell that can wipe out an entire universe (along with restoring it via the Ladybug earing's)
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