Miraculous Ladybug Upgrade

[Coolboy6]

Season 3 Ladybug and Cat Noir should be at most 7-A via downscaling to Cataclysm. In the episode “Miraculer,” the akumatized villain that can steal powers known as Miraculer uses cataclysm on Cat Noir after she stole his capability to use cataclysm. Cat Noir ends up surviving but is badly hurt afterwards. (1:33)

but wait, there’s more. In the same episode, Miraculer used a lucky charm-cataclysm combo on cat noir and survived, but still badly hurt.

Not to mention that in the same video above, Miraculer used said combo on Rena Rouge and Carapace and were sent flying and kinda dazed, but still got up to fight at 1:20. The reason I said “kinda dazed” was because after sent flying, they still got up to fight

There’s still more to say however, as in the episode, “Reflekdoll”, Ladybug and Cat Noir swapped their Miraculouses to defeat a sentimonster known as Reflekdoll. During that episode, Ladynoir uses cataclysm on The sentimonster and it appears to be damaged, but it ends up going haywire. Heck, even Mister Bug stated that the sentimonster was “riled up” later after getting cataclysm’d. (2:52)

 

[Coolboy6]

Bump

 

[Sir_Ovens]

That's just resistance to deconstruction. Cataclysm is hax and honestly shouldn't have an AP.

 

[Coolboy6]

That's just resistance to deconstruction. Cataclysm is hax and honestly shouldn't have an AP.

If it was hax, Cat Noir wouldn’t have been sent flying backwards, he would just not feel the effects. Therefore it is AP not hax.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

If it was hax, Cat Noir wouldn’t have been sent flying backwards, he would just not feel the effects. Therefore it is AP not hax.

He gets thrown back because she physically hit him while using it, so of course he's going to get thrown back. The force wasn't from the Cataclysm but from her strike, this is seen in the video you posted. Unless you can provide evidence of one of them simply touching an object/person with Cataclysm and no major force behind it, and it gets yeeted, then I don't see how this is AP.

Also, I'm pretty sure we've seen Cataclysm used on other objects like the times when he uses it on iron/steel bars and they aren't blown back, which would support it was her punch that flung him, not the Cataclysm. Even the other feats you posted are the characters physically striking while using it such as the hammer in the second video, and pushing against the giant robot in the last video.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I don't really agree with that. While we do rate Cataclysm with AP due to the AP feats shown with it, the power itself is a durability negating hax, so scaling someone to it won't work

Besides, the impact was because she hit him, which knocked him backward, since when Cat Noir used the power on several sentimonsters, they weren't knocked back and just became berserk

 

[Coolboy6]

I don't really agree with that. While we do rate Cataclysm with AP due to the AP feats shown with it, the power itself is a durability negating hax, so scaling someone to it won't work

Besides, the impact was because she hit him, which knocked him backward, since when Cat Noir used the power on several sentimonsters, they weren't knocked back and just became berserk

Did you not look at the video where Miraculer used a lucky charm-cataclysm combo as a gun?

 

[FireSwordHero]

Some good evidence of Cataclysm being an AP can be seen in the Episode Style Queen, when Plagg uses his cataclysm
As shown here
And in this gif

So im just going to break down this feat as to explain why Cataclysm must have an AP.

• First of the, there was a massive magic shockwave of green that appeared from the tower, followed by an explosion of smoke. (this is honestly the biggest bit of evidence for Cataclysm having that AP)
• The explosion caused cracks through the ground, and ended up destroying part of a large building.
• It caused the top part of the eiffel tower to collapse, apparently with no rusting (though this could just be an animator oversight)

If this abilitiy was SOLEY hax based like Lord Griffin and Sir_Ovens said it is.

• There would be no initial explosion
• The spread of the power would have just disintegrated everything from the point of impact, including the building, or caused said roads and buildings to corrode instead of cracking.
• The Eiffel tower should have been destroyed in its ENTIRETY, either turned to dust or rusted from top of to bottom including the bottom part as the energy also went down through it into the ground. In other words, Ladybug would not have been able to stand on the platform she was on as it would have collapsed on her.

The only reason in canon we don't see that AP based destruction is because the ability is mainly used by Cat Noir, who only uses for things that are for the most part quite minor, such as destroying akumatized objects or every day objects, neither of which really have that resistance of deconstruction that the heroes have. Not to mention that wanton destruction is not something that Chat actively seeks, and so he would likely be limiting its effects of Cataclysm (which is the whole reason why Plagg is normally not the one to cast Cataclsym himself), which is something that he is shown to be capable as seen when he used Cataclysm to only cause a bus to malfunction instead of destroying it outright.

And to anyone who suggest that same power limiting be applied to Miraculer's use of Cataclysm, I don't think that is the case. Miraculer is a mentally corrupted somewhat insane villain who was seeking to defeat, overpower and possibly kill the heroes, and so would have no reason to limit herself.

TLDR Cataclysm does have proof it does have an AP, its just that the power is used by someone who actively limits its destructive capability to mainly destroying small everyday objects and akumatized ones.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Did you not look at the video where Miraculer used a lucky charm-cataclysm combo as a gun?

I watched the episode, but I still disagree. Scaling Cat Noir to his Cataclysm would definitely not work, as it's always portrayed as >>>>>>>>>>> the heroes AP.

 

[Coolboy6]

I watched the episode, but I still disagree. Scaling Cat Noir to his Cataclysm would definitely not work, as it's always portrayed as >>>>>>>>>>> the heroes AP.

I didnt say they would scale to it. I clearly said they would downscale

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Some good evidence of Cataclysm being an AP can be seen in the Episode Style Queen, when Plagg uses his cataclysm
As shown here
And in this gif

So im just going to break down this feat as to explain why Cataclysm must have an AP.

• First of the, there was a massive magic shockwave of green that appeared from the tower, followed by an explosion of smoke. (this is honestly the biggest bit of evidence for Cataclysm having that AP)
• The explosion caused cracks through the ground, and ended up destroying part of a large building.
• It caused the top part of the eiffel tower to collapse, apparently with no rusting (though this could just be an animator oversight)

If this abilitiy was SOLEY hax based like Lord Griffin and Sir_Ovens said it is.

• There would be no initial explosion
• The spread of the power would have just disintegrated everything from the point of impact, including the building, or caused said roads and buildings to corrode instead of cracking.
• The Eiffel tower should have been destroyed in its ENTIRETY, either turned to dust or rusted from top of to bottom including the bottom part as the energy also went down through it into the ground. In other words, Ladybug would not have been able to stand on the platform she was on as it would have collapsed on her.

The only reason in canon we don't see that AP based destruction is because the ability is mainly used by Cat Noir, who only uses for things that are for the most part quite minor, such as destroying akumatized objects or every day objects, neither of which really have that resistance of deconstruction that the heroes have. Not to mention that wanton destruction is not something that Chat actively seeks, and so he would likely be limiting its effects of Cataclysm (which is the whole reason why Plagg is normally not the one to cast Cataclsym himself), which is something that he is shown to be capable as seen when he used Cataclysm to only cause a bus to malfunction instead of destroying it outright.

And to anyone who suggest that same power limiting be applied to Miraculer's use of Cataclysm, I don't think that is the case. Miraculer is a mentally corrupted somewhat insane villain who was seeking to defeat, overpower and possibly kill the heroes, and so would have no reason to limit herself.

TLDR Cataclysm does have proof it does have an AP, its just that the power is used by someone who actively limits its destructive capability to mainly destroying small everyday objects and akumatized ones.

Cat Noir and Plagg can control the level of destruction caused by the attack. So even if it had 7-A or higher AP, it can still only destroy something small such as the bee miraculous and nothing else (shown in Queen Wasp)

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I didnt say they would scale to it. I clearly said they would downscale

Not to this degree. Besides, it would be a massive outlier for any of the heroes, who's AP is consistently in the lower Tier 7 routes, and that doesn't include Plagg eradicating the dinosaurs with a Cataclysm and more...

 

[FireSwordHero]

Cat Noir and Plagg can control the level of destruction caused by the attack. So even if it had 7-A or higher AP, it can still only destroy something small such as the bee miraculous and nothing else (shown in Queen Wasp)

That...doesn't even make sense. Cataclysm has been to destroy things far bigger than just some small brooch... which is to say anything else. Such as you know, the goal post from the Origins episode?! The first one?!

 

[FireSwordHero]

Also that statement doesnt disapprove my statement about Cataclysm having an AP. If anything you're just grasping at straws dude.
I would like a genuine answer, I gave my proof in the form of my bigger post, so explain to me exactly why that feat in Style Queen does not count and why Cataclysm can't have an AP and is thus only hax? Not just in the form of a single dot point

 

[Coolboy6]

Not to this degree. Besides, it would be a massive outlier for any of the heroes, who's AP is consistently in the lower Tier 7 routes, and that doesn't include Plagg eradicating the dinosaurs with a Cataclysm and more...

Outlier? Bruh. Ladybug is able to dodge attacks from Cat Blanc and that’s not an outlier? Well, they could be around 6x weaker so they could be high-end small city level

 

[FireSwordHero]

Ok just while im here, I made CRT similar to this one that was apparently made on the same day as this one, but since this one came first im just gonna link my reasons for why I support this scaling here.

1. While Cataclysm did injure Cat Noir, it was not able to severely incapacitate him, and was still able to fight till Miraculer was defeated. While there was that scene where Adrien was left on the floor in pain, this was likely done for plot reasons (mainly Plagg's funny moment) as the second time he was hurt, he was able to recover quite easily. While he did need Ladybug to heal from the attack, it was not really implied that he would have not been able to recover from it with time.
2. Also the fact he took two of them roughly back to to back supports Chat having a higher durability than just 7C, since he could handle two of them in the span of a short time, despite being 7-A attacks.
3. It was confirmed by the writers that Hero's and Villains are able to resist the affects of the Cataclysm (though I've yet to find the tweet, I have seen it, and it already accepted as a stat for the heroes at least). While this does mean that they would have a resistance to the deconstruction and corrosion effects, that resistance shouldn't solely be the reason for them being able to survive it, as they would still have to be durable enough to handle the AP part of the ability, which had the power output to destroy a Dimension made by one of the Akumas, Pixelator.
4. Speaking of that feat, Chat Noir's biggest AP/durability feat he scales to at most is 151 kilotons of TNT, which a feat done by Mr Pigeon in the NY special way after Miraculer happened. However, the Dimension breaking feat mentioned above was worth rough 180 megatons of TNT, or 180000 kilotons. This means Chat Noir survived an ability that was 1192 times stronger than his supposed durability! And he survived it twice and got back up both times! Given that, it would be safe to say that either Cataclysm's AP is a massive outlier, or Chat's durability is higher than the 151 kiloton feat he scaled to, otherwise the attack would have likely killed him outright with the sheer AP/durability difference.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Plagg is the concept of destruction. It stands to reason that he would be able to cause destruction as an effect of using his power. But Cataclysm has always been shown to be deconstruction with destruction side effects.

 

[FireSwordHero]

Technically it would be destruction with deconstruction side effects since he is the aspect of destruction and not deconstruction but whatever

Still, I do have one last bit of evidence to bring up which would support my claim. If cataclysm was purely deconstruction based hax like you say it is, then it doesn't make sense for Chat to be hurt by it to the degree that he was hurting in Miraculer, since your words the ability only works by deconstructing an object or person, causing them to be destroyed. If characters like Chat Noir are able to resist the effects, then it shouldn't hurt them since Cataclysm can only deconstruct objects and not physically hurt them like a laser or an attack. Sure, Chat was hit by Miraculer both times alongside the cataclysm effect, but since Chat could take hits from more physically imposing akumas like Anansi yet be fine with no obvious injury, I doubt that Miraculer is on that level of power where she can gut-punch Chat so hard he feels it even outside of costume.

Ergo, Cataclysm must be an attack with some level of AP on top of it deconstruction, otherwise it makes no sense for Chat Noir to be hurt by it yet still resist its effects.

...Actually, now that I think about it, its possible that Cataclysm could have some sort of conceptual manipulation, since Chat could still be hurt by it despite it only supposedly deconstruction based hax despite it not deconstructing Chat Noir.

Yeah quick change, either Cataclysm must have some sort of conceptual manipulation since it could imbue the physical aspect of destruction into Chat Noir thereby hurting him, or it must have some actual AP since it is energy after all, despite it also having deconstruction effects.