Ladybug and Cat Noir could be Universe Level now (No I am not joking) - CRT/Upgrade

[FireSwordHero]

Ok season 4 is over, now I can finally talk about this!

So currently. Ladybug and Cat Noir are currently listed as High 7C, with their powers bumping them to around high 5A (well, presumably on Cat Noirs calcs).

But Im going to argue that their ranking should be bumped up to at least 3A...Their powers that is.

Lmao Ladybug and Cat Noir are physically 3A? Yeah no way

Ok, so... Why do I think that LB and CN should be bumped to 3A?​

So in Ephemeral, we now finally have a basic understanding of how the Miraculous Wish works...

[Transcript from taken from Ephemeral on the Miraculous Ladybug Wikipedia]
Sass: Imagine the world as your school notebook. Everything inside is written in blue, but now you want it to be red instead. Before you can rewrite anything in the color you'd like, you have to erase everything that's already been written in blue!
Barkk: That's what happens when someone makes a wish! The universe is destroyed, and then entirely rebuilt! But who knows how...

While this does imply (and rightfully so) that the Miraculous wish is a Universe+ level of power, note how Barkk summarises the the power...

The universe is destroyed, and then entirely rebuilt!

"Entirely" is the key word in this statement, as the wish doesn't merely warp the universe's reality, but rather remakes the entire thing from the ground up..

So from this understanding, this means the following.

1. The wish is a two part process, with the universe being first destroyed, then rebuilt. Either feat would be considered at least 3A.
2. It is likely Tikki and Plagg's specific powers are what allow the wish to work. Plagg's power destroys the universe, while Tikki's power rebuilts it.
3. While it is stated that Plagg and Tikki's miraculouses are needed to use the spell, it isn't stated that fusing the two miraculous would make their abilities stronger when fused (ala Dragon Ball), merely that the two miraculouses and their powers are needed to perform the wish.

Ergo, Tikki and Plagg's powers are 3A, courtesy of being able to create and destroy a universe respectively.

But should that level of power be applied to Ladybug and Cat Noir? I mean, they haven't shown any power level in that series (at least presumably).

Well, yes, and I do have a few reasons.

Kwami's are essentially power sources for their chosen wielders​

The kwami's function as the source of the heroes powers, both as the magic suits and as the main superpower each hero has, so naturally they should scale.

A Kwami using their power is the same as when the user uses their power, but its just with less control.​

As stated by Multiple Characters such as Master Fu

[In Style Queen,]
Plagg: ...it's just me that's able to help you out!
Master Fu: No! It's out of the question, Plagg! You are way too dangerous without an owner!

By other Kwami's

(Trixx prepares his power.)
Wayzz: You really shouldn't be doing this, Trixx!
Barkk: (frantically) Remember the last time you used your power of Illusion without a holder?
Trixx: (determined) Marinette must not reveal her secret. Mirage!

I feel the need to restate this, because any display of power the kwami's are capable of doing, the heroes can likely do as well, its just that they would normally be able to control it a lot better. Its the reason why Cat Noir can use cataclysm to do something precise as cause a bus to go out of control instead of being obliterated, unlike Plagg who almost destroyed Paris in the Style Queen Episode despite trying to hold back. (I can provide sources later when asked, I just have too much to write right now.

While not exactly the same as the miraculous wish in terms of scope, each superpower the heroes have (+Kwami's) are virtually the same in nature to the process behind the miraculous wish.​

Assuming we take Barkk's words at face value, that means that the universe is both destroyed, then (re)created, which isn't too far from how the heroes powers usually work. Lucky Charm can be used to create any item desired or needed (often bypassing the laws of conservation of energy doing so), while Cataclysm can be used to destroy anything it that it touches. Its just the same powers but on a grander scale. And Tikki has been show to be able to use the Lucky Charm power to create exactly what she wants rather that being given a random item as seen in the Dearest Family episode.

We've already (kinda) seen this power in Ladybug.​

Although not exactly true feats, Ladybug was capable of doing some crazy hax shit even seen within the first season of MLB, such as merging her past and future selves in Time-breaker and Cat Blanc, which also prevented the time paradox that would have occurred (with LB going back to stop Time-breaker/Cat Blanc, the future LB should have been erased, or potentially cause damage to time itself, though we don't know for sure what would occur). Speaking of Cat Blanc...

Ladybug and Cat Noir should scale (or downscale) to Cat Blanc​

Alright, I know this is crazy, but hear me out.

• Cat Blanc could use his version of Cataclysm in many different ways compared to Cat Noir, sure. But we already know Hawkmoth's akuma's are capable of modifying an akumatized miraculous's powers, as seen with Queen Wasp/Miracle Queen, where he replaced Venom's single use effects with Wasps that can do the same thing.
• The power boost from an akuma has been shown multiple times to be weaker when a miraculous wielder is akumatized. Crazy to believe I know, but it has been demonstrated in show as Queen Wasp was beaten by Ladybug and Cat Noir in season 2, and that was despite having the combined power of the Bee Miraculous and the akuma, and while Queen Wasp did have the heroes on the run for the most part, it was only due to the hax that her wasps provided. This occurred again in Miracle Queen, though this time with the heroes having fused miraculouses, but neither hero nor villain showed any notable increase in power, beyond just being able to use two powers (heroes) or having an already modified one (Miracle Queen).
• Following off that last note, Cat Blanc durability's was more or less the same as Ladybug's despite being supposedly enhanced, since the latter could easily break the parts on his suit such as his belt and bell.
• It you considered that Ladybug/Cat Noir's power was the same or close in strength to Chat Blanc's, it could be argued that the "Infinite Destruction" Hawkmoth gave to Cat Blanc was an enhancement to his deconstruction and corrosion hax, since Cataclysm normally wasn't able to disintegrate miraculous wielders normally, but Cat Blanc's could.
• But if you don't consider that Ladybug and Cat Noir should scale to Cat Blanc, that's fine as well, but I would like to argue that with the miraculous wish being, at minimum, a 3A feat, it wouldn't be too far to say that the heroes at least downscale, as while the Miraculous Wish can destroy/rebuild a single timeline, Cat Blanc could do it on a multi-timeline scale, as seen in Cat Blanc when he nearly destroyed multiple timelines in Bunnyx's Burrow, even before he used his galaxy dwarfing Mega-Cataclysm.

So yeah, this is my big crazy CRT for Miraculous Ladybug. I think that Ladybug's and Cat Noir's superpowers (specifically their Lucky Charm and Cataclysm should scale to 3A, potentially higher.

Big Change I know, but I had to give my case.
Ok, so now for me to answer some possible counter arguments being answered:

What about Miraculer? In that episode, Cat Noir got hit with a cataclysm from Miraculer, who stole his power, but he survived being hit by it twice! How do you explain that, or are the heroes now physically 3A?​

Well for starters, we already disapproved heroes downscaling to Cataclysm back in this post. Yes I was a supporter back, but I've since seen the error of my ways.

But to answer this question, there's a few factors to consider in this situation.

• As explained prior, the heroes can control the level of power of their abilities, so the strength of the hero's powers can vary greatly according to the wielders, even Cataclysm.
• Hawkmoth, and by extension Miraculer, did not know how truly powerful cataclysm was (since Hawkmoth did not posses the translated grimoire at this time), so its likely they assumed the power was just town level and adjusted it accordingly (at least subconsciously). Alternatively, you could argue that when Miraculer takes someone's power, its weaker than when the heroes themselves use it, though this just an assumption at this point.
• Even then, all miraculous heroes have resistance to deconstruction and corrosion, so while Cataclysm could be potentially 3A, the hero's resistances are just too strong for cataclysm to affect them, even if their actual durability is much weaker.

The hero's can't be 3A. That's way above their usual feats.​

Of course not. I am saying their powers are.

But if you are arguing in terms of their actual superpowers, well its not exactly outside the realm of possibility since we already know at this point that the Miraculous Wish is capable of destroying then creating a universe. Not to mention we already accepted this level of power when we gave Cat Blanc a possible low-2C rating despite the feat given for it being somewhat questionable, and even using said tiering for some vs fights.

Cat Noir can't scale to Cat Blanc, Cat Blanc was way stronger.​

I'm not saying he isn't stronger, but it is possible that the increase in strength could also be more hax based that it was a straight power amp, and Hawkmoth's akumas have been shown to modify a miraculous wielders powers before beyond what they normally can do. And besides, even if Cat Noir doesn't truly scale to Blanc, their is some arugement to say that Cat Noir's Cataclysm does at least downscale to Chat Blanc's own, since the ring's power is already known to be used in a spell that can wipe out an entire universe (along with restoring it via the Ladybug earing's)

 

[FireSwordHero]

Bump

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

So, Been rather busy this last couple of months…

But welp. I agree. However.

The wish is a two part process, with the universe being first destroyed, then rebuilt. Either feat would be considered at least 3A.

The feat is Low 2-C in nature. Sass' analogy about writing into a color and then wanting to write in other one is to say that the universe is overwritten; which involves the flow of time.

It is likely Tikki and Plagg's specific powers are what allow the wish to work. Plagg's power destroys the universe, while Tikki's power rebuilts it.

Emilie, my queen, Ladybug and Cat Noir escaped me again today, but I will never give up. I will get their Miraculous. Thanks to the all powerful forces of destruction and creation, I'll destroy this world that took you from us to build a new one, where we'll never be apart again. I will succeed, Emilie. Whatever the cost.

Kwami's are essentially power sources for their chosen wielders

A Kwami using their power is the same as when the user uses their power, but its just with less control.

Agree with the point to an extent. S4 got a little bit deeper in the lore of Kwami's being unable to use their powers without a holder, and for everything it seems that it isn’t quite about how refined their control is while they are used as much as them causing side-catastrophes. Trixx's Mirage's Catastrophe in Gang of Secrets is implied to be real to an extent, as well as Kalkki's Voyage creates subsequent portals that suck structures into different locations; something that isn’t the power just going out of control while the main use works just fine.

While not exactly the same as the miraculous wish in terms of scope, each superpower the heroes have (+Kwami's) are virtually the same in nature to the process behind the miraculous wish.

You could add the limitless power a Miraculous had towards their concept.

Ladybug and Cat Noir should scale (or downscale) to Cat Blanc​

Alright, I know this is crazy, but hear me out.

No. And I won’t hear you out.

Cat Blanc could use his version of Cataclysm in many different ways compared to Cat Noir, sure. But we already know Hawkmoth's akuma's are capable of modifying an akumatized miraculous's powers, as seen with Queen Wasp/Miracle Queen, where he replaced Venom's single use effects with Wasps that can do the same thing.

He was also given an infinite power of destruction, according to Hawk Moth.

The power boost from an akuma has been shown multiple times to be weaker when a miraculous wielder is akumatized. Crazy to believe I know, but it has been demonstrated in show as Queen Wasp was beaten by Ladybug and Cat Noir in season 2, and that was despite having the combined power of the Bee Miraculous and the akuma, and while Queen Wasp did have the heroes on the run for the most part, it was only due to the hax that her wasps provided.

She was defeated because they targeted her Akumatized object straight on. Queen Wasp was directly stated to be Ladybug and Chat Noir's most powerful enemy at the time and was clearly physically superior to Chat Noir, something to have in mind when a weakened Chat Noir did better against Mayura than Queen Bee in Miraculer.

This occurred again in Miracle Queen, though this time with the heroes having fused miraculouses, but neither hero nor villain showed any notable increase in power, beyond just being able to use two powers (heroes) or having an already modified one (Miracle Queen).

Merged Holders are more powerful, as stated by Marinette herself.

• Following off that last note, Cat Blanc durability's was more or less the same as Ladybug's despite being supposedly enhanced, since the latter could easily break the parts on his suit such as his belt and bell.
• It you considered that Ladybug/Cat Noir's power was the same or close in strength to Chat Blanc's, it could be argued that the "Infinite Destruction" Hawkmoth gave to Cat Blanc was an enhancement to his deconstruction and corrosion hax, since Cataclysm normally wasn't able to disintegrate miraculous wielders normally, but Cat Blanc's could.

The first point is paradoxical with the second because Chat Blanc survived the same attack that obliterated Ladybug and Hawk Moth.

But if you don't consider that Ladybug and Cat Noir should scale to Cat Blanc, that's fine as well, but I would like to argue that with the miraculous wish being, at minimum, a 3A feat, it wouldn't be too far to say that the heroes at least downscale, as while the Miraculous Wish can destroy/rebuild a single timeline, Cat Blanc could do it on a multi-timeline scale, as seen in Cat Blanc when he nearly destroyed multiple timelines in Bunnyx's Burrow, even before he used his galaxy dwarfing Mega-Cataclysm.

I do believe that Ladybug and Chat Noir's powers get into the universal category, but Chat Blanc hasn’t to do anything on this. At best he should get a mention on Shadow Noir (who?) profile due the combined forces of the Ladybug and Black Cat Miraculous being superior to the Akumatized Black Cat Miraculous, as of being constantly referred to the Ultimate Power of the series.

What about Miraculer? In that episode, Cat Noir got hit with a cataclysm from Miraculer, who stole his power, but he survived being hit by it twice! How do you explain that, or are the heroes now physically 3A?

Thomas had a take on this a while ago. The Cataclysm was real, Chat Noir's near-invulnerability protected him. It scales to him, but it actually doesn’t. So:

The hero's can't be 3A. That's way above their usual feats.

In terms of physicals, I agree. In terms of superpowers it’s a way broader thing.

Cat Noir can't scale to Cat Blanc, Cat Blanc was way stronger.​

Well, that's the truth.

 

[FireSwordHero]

Glad to see that someone at least agrees with my 3A scaling (or at least it should be 2C). However I still think the heroes could scale to Cat Blanc

He was also given an infinite power of destruction, according to Hawk Moth.

Its likely that the statement could be seen as hyperbole. Even then, the "infinite" aspect could just be in terms of enchanced hax like being able to corrode previous wielders, when before his cataclysm couldn't, as well as being able to manipulate his power in different ways, such as being able to use it to destroy alternate timelines.

The first point is paradoxical with the second because Chat Blanc survived the same attack that obliterated Ladybug and Hawk Moth.

That's mainly because (as I stated earlier) Chat Blanc's cataclysm has enhanced Corrosion and Deconstruction hax, while Blanc himself has an enhanced resistance to said hax which the normal miraculous wielders did not have. Something that he's already considered to have on his key by the community.

Based on earlier discussions regarding cataclysm, we don't consider Cataclysm to have an actual AP value as much its level of "power" depends on what cataclysm is applied to, in a similar sense to environmental destruction not being equal to an actual AP, otherwise we would have already made the miraculous wielders 7A on minimum by virtue of Chat surviving being hit by it. Plus its effects have been shown to vary in terms of potency in multiple episodes, and even stated in the page we already have for Cat Noir.

And even then, his cataclysm attacks are much powerful than he himself is, considering the few times Ladybug can get close, she could destroy parts of his suit.

However, if Chat Blanc's obliteration feat was considered an actual AP feat, like you say it is, rather than being a hax feat, then Ladybug should not have been able to damage Cat Blanc's suit in any way since the stat advantage would be to large for Ladybug to overcome (the moon blast feat was calculated to be 5A, which is far beyond Ladybug's High 7C rating, so Ladybug being able to damage his suit would be laughable) . Which itself could also be seen as paradoxical.

Unless you now think Ladybug is 5A

Ergo, the points are not paradoxical, but considering the blast feat to be AP based would make it be

In terms of physicals, I agree. In terms of superpowers it’s a way broader thing.

That's what ive been saying through my post. Im saying their powers should have a much higher scaling than their physical attributes.

 

[FireSwordHero]

Bump
But no seriously, can we get a few more people in on this discussion? It's probably one of the biggest upgrades for MLB, so I would like to see what everyone else working on the MLB pages thinks about this.

 

[OmniMagician]

For what it's worth, I agree

 

[ByArrow]

Bump

 

[ByArrow]

Bump

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I really don't have time to read everything but I think I get most of it and I'm not sure.
The kwamis are supposed to be abstract creatures that represent each of their concepts, which means that the infinite destruction tht chat Blac uses should be just a copy of the power of Plagg, except that chat Blac become much more powerful that he was before, so it might be likely that Cat Noir cannot use the full power of Plagg which is supported by Plagg having a "true form". I do believe that everything Plagg did in this "chibi form" would scale to cat noir just like for Tikki and Ladybug, for example in the episode dearest family Tikki makes a giant cake and cat noir destroyed it which means cat noir is "as strong as Tikki".

 

[FireSwordHero]

I really don't have time to read everything but I think I get most of it and I'm not sure.
The kwamis are supposed to be abstract creatures that represent each of their concepts, which means that the infinite destruction tht chat Blac uses should be just a copy of the power of Plagg, except that chat Blac become much more powerful that he was before, so it might be likely that Cat Noir cannot use the full power of Plagg which is supported by Plagg having a "true form". I do believe that everything Plagg did in this "chibi form" would scale to cat noir just like for Tikki and Ladybug, for example in the episode dearest family Tikki makes a giant cake and cat noir destroyed it which means cat noir is "as strong as Tikki".

Plagg having a true form doesn't mean that his power increases, its just that Plagg is now transforming into his true self. It shouldn't be seen as a power increase because a) the script never states that they are increasing or using their full power and b) it would make more sense for the Kwamis to be small unless ordered to...because their giant forms are massive and are a dead giveaway to where they are. Imagine Miraculous but Marinette and Adrien have to hide these giant **** off massive god like beings.

Also Chat Blanc being more powerful than Chat Noir is not necassarily something I agree with, since I believe its more or less Hawkmoth modifying his power to function differently, same with Queen Wasp, but I decided its better safe than sorry and decided to state that Cat Noir should still downscale from Cat Blanc, which would put him at near similar levels of power.

Also, another thing that supports my verdict is that throughout the show, even in the first season, Ladybug and Cat Noir have demonstrated feats that prove the universe level power of their superpowers:

• In Timetagger, Ladybug merged two timelines with the Lucky Charm that were created as a result of timetagger traveling back in time by around 5 minutes.
• In Pixelator, Cat Noir destroyed the titular villain's pocket dimension with his Cataclysm. This is technically a feat that we did calc a long while back, but it was done under the assumption that the dimension wasnt infinite and lowballed it to the point of the event horizon, when it has been stated to "go on forever" by one of the titular heroes.
• In Ephemeral, Ladybug managed to fix the time distortions caused by Sass's use of Second Chance, which caused the past to merge somewhat with the present and time to fluctuate. Granted, its not an exact quantifiable feat, but still impressive.

Also, in regards to Tikki's cake feat, which is still impressive but not universe level feat, there are some things to consider about the feat.

• Tikki wanted to create a giant cake to satisfy her magically insane hunger cravings. She wasn't exactly trying to wipe out the universe.
• Majestia did a similar 5A feat yet its obvious that Tikki's full power is superior to her
• Its an episode about a Kwami going out of control with her hunger to point where she almost squishes the earth with a giant pastry. Is there really any narrative logic we can pull from this that justifies Tikki as just being planet level in her Chibi form?
• ACTUALLY, Tikki did that feat in her Revealed form as we see in the tornado, so by your logic Revealed Tikki would only be High 5A, even she should be superior to Ladybug who also did a High 5A feat

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Plagg having a true form doesn't mean that his power increases, its just that Plagg is now transforming into his true self. It shouldn't be seen as a power increase because a) the script never states that they are increasing or using their full power and b) it would make more sense for the Kwamis to be small unless ordered to...because their giant forms are massive and are a dead giveaway to where they are. Imagine Miraculous but Marinette and Adrien have to hide these giant **** off massive god like beings.

There’s no point on having to reveal Plagg and Tikki’s true form so to the Ultimate Power to be used if they are the same as Avatar Plagg and Avatar Tikki.

Given what Season 5 gives about the wish, I have to disagree with the notion of Tier 2 Ladybug and Chat Noir. At very least anything relating to the Ultimate Wish.

The only thing we know for a fact about Chat Blanc in terms of scaling is that he's stronger than Chat Noir. There’s no reliable scaling to him and Hawk Moth makes clear that he'll grant him an infinite destructive power.

In Timetagger, Ladybug merged two timelines with the Lucky Charm that were created as a result of timetagger traveling back in time by around 5 minutes.

Timbreaker. That's Causality Manipulation.

In Pixelator, Cat Noir destroyed the titular villain's pocket dimension with his Cataclysm. This is technically a feat that we did calc a long while back, but it was done under the assumption that the dimension wasnt infinite and lowballed it to the point of the event horizon, when it has been stated to "go on forever" by one of the titular heroes.

"As if". Adrien isn’t a reliable source in that department. He’s been stuck on that dimension for about an hour at very most, he has no way to measure it size and he would obviously feel like that if he doesn’t gets anywhere after a while. Pocket Reality Dimension fears are very strict in that regard and there’s no conclusive proof Pixelator’s makes the cut for being an infinite one.

In Ephemeral, Ladybug managed to fix the time distortions caused by Sass's use of Second Chance, which caused the past to merge somewhat with the present and time to fluctuate. Granted, its not an exact quantifiable feat, but still impressive.

This isn’t untrue and it’s actually the closest one to apply for Low 2-C as iirc it was stated that Sass' Second Chance Chance tangled the Timeline, but that can also fall under the Causality Manipulation umbrella.

• Tikki wanted to create a giant cake to satisfy her magically insane hunger cravings. She wasn't exactly trying to wipe out the universe.

• Its an episode about a Kwami going out of control with her hunger to point where she almost squishes the earth with a giant pastry. Is there really any narrative logic we can pull from this that justifies Tikki as just being planet level in her Chibi form?

The point of the episode is that Tikki is being irrational because of her hunger. Sure, I agree that Tikki is stronger than that as she claimed that her next Gallete would've been even bigger, but intentionally isn’t exactly a factor into this. Tikki's intention was definitely not to destroy the earth either, but she was about to do so.

Majestia did a similar 5A feat yet its obvious that Tikki's full power is superior to her

Indeed, partly because the Gallete feat is actually superior to Majestia’s.

ACTUALLY, Tikki did that feat in her Revealed form as we see in the tornado, so by your logic Revealed Tikki would only be High 5A, even she should be superior to Ladybug who also did a High 5A feat

That wasn’t Tikki's true form, it was a foreshadow. You can clearly see Avatar Tikki below the silhouette as well as seen her in a first shoot in the middle of the pink energy.

True Tikki and Plagg are the only ones I see having a reliable ground to scale to Chat Blanc, as they are the source of the Ultimate Power, but other than them? Nobody. Regardless of the missing laughs, Ladybug and Chat Noir should "””settle""" with Tier 5.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Plagg having a true form doesn't mean that his power increases, its just that Plagg is now transforming into his true self. It shouldn't be seen as a power increase because a) the script never states that they are increasing or using their full power and b) it would make more sense for the Kwamis to be small unless ordered to...because their giant forms are massive and are a dead giveaway to where they are. Imagine Miraculous but Marinette and Adrien have to hide these giant **** off massive god like beings.

Also Chat Blanc being more powerful than Chat Noir is not necassarily something I agree with, since I believe its more or less Hawkmoth modifying his power to function differently, same with Queen Wasp, but I decided its better safe than sorry and decided to state that Cat Noir should still downscale from Cat Blanc, which would put him at near similar levels of power.

Also, another thing that supports my verdict is that throughout the show, even in the first season, Ladybug and Cat Noir have demonstrated feats that prove the universe level power of their superpowers:

• In Timetagger, Ladybug merged two timelines with the Lucky Charm that were created as a result of timetagger traveling back in time by around 5 minutes.
• In Pixelator, Cat Noir destroyed the titular villain's pocket dimension with his Cataclysm. This is technically a feat that we did calc a long while back, but it was done under the assumption that the dimension wasnt infinite and lowballed it to the point of the event horizon, when it has been stated to "go on forever" by one of the titular heroes.
• In Ephemeral, Ladybug managed to fix the time distortions caused by Sass's use of Second Chance, which caused the past to merge somewhat with the present and time to fluctuate. Granted, its not an exact quantifiable feat, but still impressive.

Also, in regards to Tikki's cake feat, which is still impressive but not universe level feat, there are some things to consider about the feat.

• Tikki wanted to create a giant cake to satisfy her magically insane hunger cravings. She wasn't exactly trying to wipe out the universe.
• Majestia did a similar 5A feat yet its obvious that Tikki's full power is superior to her
• Its an episode about a Kwami going out of control with her hunger to point where she almost squishes the earth with a giant pastry. Is there really any narrative logic we can pull from this that justifies Tikki as just being planet level in her Chibi form?
• ACTUALLY, Tikki did that feat in her Revealed form as we see in the tornado, so by your logic Revealed Tikki would only be High 5A, even she should be superior to Ladybug who also did a High 5A feat

The other guy already answered and for the most part he said exacly what i would have said.
But I never talked about Tikki and Plagg being limited to 5-A, I actually stated that Plagg's true power would be at least the same as Cat Blanc, what i said was that he would be limited in his "chibi" form based on the fact that Cat Noir is much weaker than cat blanc who would be equal to Chibbi Plagg.

 

[Robo432343]

bump???

 

[Robo432343]

bump

 

[Trigger]

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