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I have said my piece, whether or not you want to keep ignoring shit and make dumb assumption is up to you
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Lady upgrade
- Thread starter ZillertheBucko
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wow how the **** did this go to shit so fast
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- Thread starter
- #43
so uh
6-C/4-C dmc5 Lady Weapons...let's talk some more about that.
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uh like, i had a response typed up but tony's got it covered pretty well i think
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- #45
well I don't think Tony's argument was any good but, in that case
I'd like to pick up starting from here at least. I predict that a resolution can be reached.
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I disagree with any AP upgrades for Lady, since she wasn't able to actually do any harm to Trish or Dante, but her ability to go the distance against both, as well as her ability to take on hordes of fodder demons, should grant her Genius Intelligence in combat context and possibly an upgrade to her speed
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- #47
read above
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I did, and read the thread tony linked to as well for good measure. She caused harm to a 7-B Dante and even then only because he let it happen, that's not nearly good enough to upgrade her to 6/4-C
Eden_Warlock99
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Maybe a "possibly" could work, we'd be ignoring this statement otherwise
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- #50
her shooting dante was never even the primary piece of evidence, so I am questioning if you really read everything I said. The point of making the crt was the statement that scales her above Nero.
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Not necessarily ignoring it, more like disregarding it as inconsistent with actual showings
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- #52
"not ignoring it, just disregarding it" that's the same thing
so if you're going to go with the route of calling it inconsistent, then we circle back around to the very first thing I requested of you
and then explain how the supposed inconsistencies actually matter despite everything I've said against that.
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Yeah, I did, and the point is that her briefly stunning early DMC 3 Dante is pretty much the closest thing to substantial evidence that the statement has. Plus, it was the only evidence in favor of the statement that you linked in the original post, so yeah I'm thinking it was the primary piece of evidence.
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7-B Lady sounds more reasonable to be honest. It puts her at the low-mid tier which means she could have taken on Cerberus. And considering that she seems to have more knowledge about the tower than Dante (got to a higher floor where Arkham was before he did), I don’t think she would have just tried to get into the tower without expecting to fight its gate guardian.
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- #55
....what?
No, that's not how it works, that's not even slightly how it works
the statement is the evidence. That's it.
I am asking you once again, please explain how there are inconsistencies that are relevant here.
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Yeah, Tony said it well and considering he's one of the most trusted DMC supporters speak a lot
I disagree based on what Tony has said
I disagree based on what Tony has said
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Ignoring means straight-up acting as if it doesn't exist, disregarding means acknowledging its existence but not considering it legit
Because nothing you said against them convinced me of your stance
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- #58
for one, I do not care in the slightest how trusted he is. Aside from being an asshole about it, his logic simply didn't hold up. Even though you're not staff, I'm still not going to just let you come in here and just FRA for something Tony said that I already responded to.
Which means we would act in a manner as if it doesn't exist, given that we wouldn't be using it. In this context it's effectively the same thing.
And you still haven't responded to it
I sure love how multiple people have come here to just ignore my entire counterargument and be like "yes what Tony said" and add absolutely nothing despite me asking you many times to simply give any kind of a proper response. This is supposed to be a discussion no a vote for who gets to be the president of dmc related opinions, so is it too much for me to ask one of you for a SINGLE counterargument beyond the most shallow "disagree FRA because you aren't convincing"
run through this again
it was clearly stated in dmc5, by Dante, that he doesn't know anyone other than himself and Vergil
this is you saying "no Dante, actually you DO know someone else who can defeat lady"
now it is your turn to provide some very specific evidence. Rather than hiding behind the debunked arguments from earlier, I would request that you point out some very specific things from said argument (or come up with it yourself) and present them here. If you took the time to do that, then it would be relatively easy to pick it apart in a more detailed manner, and you would see that beyond a surface level that the arguments against 4-C Lady do not actually work.
I will be waiting.
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In what world does a statement outweigh actual showings and take precedent as a primary piece of evidence?
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Aren't those the same scans I used?
But yeah lady scaling to 8C is consistent as heck since either those are her feats or she scales to 8C demons.
Palito266
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You did? Not keeping up with the thread maybe i got a bit confused :v
Anyway i have to disagree with OP cuz of the scans and Tony's explanation.
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- #63
I already addressed this directly earlier but I will do it once more
the armor has no anti feats to suggest that her being unable to crack it actually means anything, since we don’t even see Nero having scratched it at the end of a cutscene, so using this as counter evidence doesn’t do much. Additionally, this does not necessarily have any bearing on dmc5 lady, since the fact that Dante made the statement in the first place could also have implied that her weaponry got stronger since that took place.
So yeah, there’s my response to this, again.
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- #64
You on the other hand have still not shown said evidence. You come in here contributing nothing with an FRA, I ask you to elaborate, you once again do not provide your argument, I ask you to be specific, you once again say “when does a statement outweigh actual showings” and now I say “I HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR THE DAMN SHOWINGS FOR THE PAST 3 HOURS, JUST SHOW ME”
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- #65
Here’s my advice
50% of all FRAs crumble under scrutiny because they don’t actually take the time to point out the specific details and just broadly agree with an argument, so when they actually get into the nitty gritty of it they can’t defend their point and just resort back to saying they agree with someone else
and the other 50% are people who just happened to randomly select the correct side to FRA to. I have always found it to be a counterproductive practice, so I challenge everyone here to actually try and go head to head with me and argue each point to the finer details; you might just learn something new.
50% of all FRAs crumble under scrutiny because they don’t actually take the time to point out the specific details and just broadly agree with an argument, so when they actually get into the nitty gritty of it they can’t defend their point and just resort back to saying they agree with someone else
and the other 50% are people who just happened to randomly select the correct side to FRA to. I have always found it to be a counterproductive practice, so I challenge everyone here to actually try and go head to head with me and argue each point to the finer details; you might just learn something new.
Palito266
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Nero killed that knight, but Lady only did so with a strategy. It even says the ******* demon came out UNHARMED from a shot by the Kalina Ann. The knight not getting scratched is the novel's way of saying "yeah that ain't doing shit, think harder Lady" and she actually had to put effort to kill it, putting her body weight on it and breaking the armor, turning into blue fog like what happened in Nero's case.
Wanna know how Nero and Dante take care of him? Like any other fodder demon, CASUALLY.
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- #67
So one of two things must be true
1. The angelo is 4-C
Or
2. The statement only applies to dmc5 Lady, whom the statement directly applies to and has no instances of struggling with those, along with the advantage of having a reasonable timeskip between the events
pick your poison, either way it doesn’t debunk Lady being 4-C
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Lmao
Staff is against this, knowledgeable members are against this and every time someone debunks the OP he just goes "well here's my faulty answer, take it or leave my thread".
Why didn't this get closed after I asked is beyond me
Staff is against this, knowledgeable members are against this and every time someone debunks the OP he just goes "well here's my faulty answer, take it or leave my thread".
Why didn't this get closed after I asked is beyond me
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This honestly seems to be in the same vein as attempting to upgrade Fear Zeus' durability to Low 1-C because he took a bunch of attacks from PoH Kratos, despite Zeus having Fear banished out of him with one chokeslam in a cutscene and the reason Zeus surviving that long is because of the simple concept of a game having artificial stakes in it or it wanting a QTE to put up a good show and not have Zeus be vaporized and end the game that fast, and completely ignoring that Kratos likes to brutalize his opponents to no end.
I disagree with OP for Tony's reasons.
I disagree with OP for Tony's reasons.
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- #70
I have not played God of War, but those specific circumstances have not been proved to apply here in any way, it is pointless to bring them up here.
and for the love of god PLEASE stop hiding behind Tony’s arguments everyone. I have addressed them multiple times and he has since not been participating in the debate. For Christ sake, can we please just actually focus on responding to new counterarguments instead of repeating outdated ones, as I have asked time and time and time and time again???
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- #71
I have never once asked anybody to leave my thread, what I have done is attempt to engage in a productive back and forth so we can actually come to a conclusion. You on the other hand are the only one who left the thread, despite me never asking you to do so, funny how you’re projecting your own actions onto me now.
Because you asked in absolutely terrible faith as anybody could see that your entire request was “I disagree with this thread, please close it because I don’t like it”
And also because you were being very intentionally frustrating to deal with, turning what was a normal discussion into a shitshow and accusing me of not reading threads and being unwilling to cooperate with me asking you for clarification on multiple occasions, layered on top of just being a dick in general.
Jason_Courne
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Is there a reason Lady's fight with Trish, isn't being acknowledged?
It seems like the most clear cut scaling for Lady to 4-C
It seems like the most clear cut scaling for Lady to 4-C
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- #73
Well who knows
Palito266
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The knight being 4-C is absolutely boogus cuz Agnus literally explains they're made out of a lot of demons and their souls, so we can discard the first option based on that alone.
I dunno where the DMC 5 Lady > Other Ladies argument comes from but it seems to me that you're trying to say that cuz if you don't then your logic falls to the ground.
Sadly, there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO proof that DMC 5 Lady is stronger than her past counterparts, the Kalina Ann is the same, and she doesn't do anything out of the extraordinary like really flashy strategies or moves to consider her as such.
I dunno where the DMC 5 Lady > Other Ladies argument comes from but it seems to me that you're trying to say that cuz if you don't then your logic falls to the ground.
Sadly, there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO proof that DMC 5 Lady is stronger than her past counterparts, the Kalina Ann is the same, and she doesn't do anything out of the extraordinary like really flashy strategies or moves to consider her as such.
Palito266
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Maybe it's because Trish isn't bloodlusted, missing a free shot and purposefully getting hit. Lady even comment that it feels like "she's fighting another human"
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Anime Trish doesn't have anything to scale her to 4C, only DMC4 Trish who actually has shit backing her up as stronger than before (unlike lady), also she was messing around with lady during that chapter
Jason_Courne
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Yeah but it's not like she's going 100% easy mode on Lady, she's actively using her magic to empower her gunshots and Lady even survived a direct magic explosion from Trish with the fight devolving into a straight up fist fight
And in a different (earlier) fight it was shown that Lady's weaponry could contend with Trish's magic
I mean that's just Lady being snarky
Yeah but we don't have a key for Anime Trish and we have no reason to believe she is millions of times stronger in DMC4 unlike Dante
She was actively using her magic against Lady and dodging her attacks rather than just tanking them, so it wouldn't make sense to say she was holding back
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- #78
And yet post DT Nero was even struggling a little with them
The proof is the statement itself, and there is nothing directly going against the statement being true at that point in time. If dmc5 lady has evidence and dmc4 lady doesn’t, then the split is just going to be made rather than assuming the statement is false. That would only happen if it it was later stated that Nero would beat her or that her weapons have gotten weaker since dmc3/4 or something, but direct evidence like that does not exist. Given that the statement is true, it means dmc5 lady has a 4-C arsenal regardless. Either that or we just go with Nero not being a million times stronger than the angelos.
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You are the one who escalated shit, I just responded in kind.
Anyways, have you stopped to think that maybe, just maybe, people disagree with you and agree with me because nothing you said works with the context of the series or the one I provided?
Idk, to me it feels like you think anyone who disagrees with you is wrong and your word is absolute and the evidence doesn't matter because you said so.
The only explosión I remember is the one from Kalina Ann, could be wrong since it has been a long time.
Also demonic juice isn't at full capacity 100% of the time, demons can control the output and all that stuff... It's just that they don't do that because duh they are evil and arrogant and stuff.
True, we don't have a key but that's not enough reason for us to say she is as strong as an older Trish.
Also demons can get stronger by doing absolutely random shit and Trish is no exception to the rule, it isn't hard to think her power started growing from that time to DMC 4.
Also iirc Trish is like marionette level in DMC 1 and the anime happens like 2 years from that and DMC 4 happens 5 years after the anime
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- #80
No, I am asking the people who disagree with me to have a discussion to decide who is correct. The one who escalated shit is most likely the one mocking me over stupid shit having not read threads that were unrelated to this crt, and that would be you. You were the first to get heated and the first to act like a dick, and I very clearly pointed out to you the moment I could have taken you to the rvr, and the only reason I didn’t is because I am patient enough and actually willing to debate with the people who disagree with me.
Trish in dmc1 took a Dante Level attack and only got knocked unconscious from it…I don’t think she’s marionette level, even if she doesn’t scale to Dante there.
Also I’d just like to point out that Trish was definitely actually getting hurt when Lady went at her hand to hand, and she was visibly bothered by it on her face, so make of that what you will.
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