Kuuga vs Agito (1-0-7)

[Lonkitt]

Kamen Rider Kuuga (Amazing Mighty) vs Kamen Rider Agito (Burning Form)

-Speed will be equalized (since I'm sure there'll be a significant imbalance once speed revisions for them are tackled)
-Kuuga is 33.35 gigatons. Agito is 10.278 gigatons
-Note that since Kuuga was referenced as "No. 4" in Agito's season by Hikawa, it's likely that Shouichi knows of Kuuga, but not exactly who he is or what his powers are
-Please see the note on Kuuga's page as it's relevant
-Fight takes place in an isolated forest

Who wins and why?

Kuuga: 1 (Jamesthetaker)

Agito: 0

Inconclusive: 7 (BERRIES555, Peppersalt43, Veloxt1r0kore, IxaSaga2, Sonicflare9, Armerish, Popted2)

 

[BERRIES555]

Their stats are pretty much equal with their respective scale chains. Agito on the other hand has a massive skill advantage, fighting Lords who are millions to billions of years old. And I honestly think that's really the main point of this match. Neither have good haxes towards each other and Agito even has the slight range advantage with his sword while Kuuga just has his fists. You could argue that Kuuga could use his explosions, but same goes for Agito. I also don't think any of his Rising Forms would be much of a factor since they aren't going to be as strong as his Amazing Mighty.

All in all, Agito high-diff or Incon for both using their finishers.

 

[Lonkitt]

Agito gets a vote

 

[IxaSaga2]

yessss, I need more rider vs rider matches. Amazing Mighty Kuuga's defense is pretty good because he tanked Go-Gadoru-Ba's rising kick without a problem but I think Kuuga is going to struggle against Shining Caliber and Burning Form's Amps. Agito has a massive skill advantage too because the Lords are just much stronger than the Gurongis. But because both Kuuga and Agito in these forms basically have their finishers as regulars moves, I think Agito will have an easier time hitting his moves. So I vote Agito.

 

[Lonkitt]

Agito gets another vote. Also I'm hoping we get to see more Rider vs Rider matchups in the future too

 

[Lonkitt]

Bump

 

[Jamesthetaker]

I pretty sure the whole "Lord is superior than Gurongi" are just about AP alone, skills otherwise, the Gurongi are actual warrior that waged war against other tribes whereas the Lord are just simply holy creature with little to no combat skills. This isn't downplaying Agito but a fact shown many times in the show, we don't even know how good are the Lord at combat beside that they once aid humans against Gurongi, at best they're comparable in skills. Also, being older doesn't translated to being more skilled than other, a being that could live hundred of millions years without doing anything is not better than someone who learnt karate in a month.

Here is how it goes: Kuuga's have 3x AP advantage and Reactive Power Level, Agito have Shining Calibur and Rage Power. Kuuga will at least get a one or two hits at Agito whilst the latter have to defeat Kuuga as quick as possible, however rage amp doesn't happened in a span a second which Kuuga will stamped explosive mark on him and win.

 

[Lonkitt]

Kuuga gets a vote

 

[BERRIES555]

The reason why I think they have equal stats is that Kuuga sat in the middle of that 30 GT explosion while the EoW casually created the 10 GT storm and Agito killed him under 30 seconds. Kuuga's reactive PL wouldn't do anything since it only happens in near death experience. They should have relative stats at that point. Although, I do agree that their skill would also be equal, This pretty much just goes down to hax, which neither have a lot of. The only one they have is their explosion manipulation which could instantly kill the other, but both could easily pull it off.

Changing my vote to Incon.

 

[Lonkitt]

Oh, wow. Now we've got equal votes for each outcome. Interesting

The inconclusive outcome gets a vote

 

[IxaSaga2]

I pretty sure the whole "Lord is superior than Gurongi" are just about AP alone, skills otherwise, the Gurongi are actual warrior that waged war against other tribes whereas the Lord are just simply holy creature with little to no combat skills. This isn't downplaying Agito but a fact shown many times in the show, we don't even know how good are the Lord at combat beside that they once aid humans against Gurongi, at best they're comparable in skills. Also, being older doesn't translated to being more skilled than other, a being that could live hundred of millions years without doing anything is not better than someone who learnt karate in a month.

The generals of the Gurongis were destroyed by a regular police squad with a few shots from enhanced bullets. The Police squads couldn't do a single thing to the Lords throughout the whole show. G3 was already program to perfectly combat against the Gurongis but even the lowest Lords proved to be way too strong for G3. He needed multiple upgrades to even stand toe to toe with the Lords.

Here is how it goes: Kuuga's have 3x AP advantage and Reactive Power Level, Agito have Shining Calibur and Rage Power. Kuuga will at least get a one or two hits at Agito whilst the latter have to defeat Kuuga as quick as possible, however rage amp doesn't happened in a span a second which Kuuga will stamped explosive mark on him and win.

Kuuga's AP was from EoS and Agito's feat was done before BoS. El of the Water has gotten so much stronger since then. I don't want to say the whole scaling chain again but I think Kuuga and Agito's AP should be similar. The only thing is that Kuuga has RPL that comes when he is in a life threatening situation but Agito has his rage power that activates the moment he becomes Burning Form and gets stronger according to his emotions.

This is Kuuga in Amazing Mighty Form, he has none of his weapons besides his hands and feet to counter Agito. He won't have Rising Dragon's agility. He also won't have Pegasus's enhanced senses while Burning form has better senses than Agito's Flame Form (which is Agito's version of equivalent of Pegasus Form and Titan Form) and even Trinity Form. Agito will react to Kuuga easily.

In terms of finishers, Kuuga's mark explodes people but a regular slash from Shining Caliber destroys people. Shining Calibur has the wider and longer range while Amazing Mighty has his kick which he only hit because the monster wanted a clash where both hits their moves.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

The generals of the Gurongis were destroyed by a regular police squad with a few shots from enhanced bullets. The Police squads couldn't do a single thing to the Lords throughout the whole show. G3 was already program to perfectly combat against the Gurongis but even the lowest Lords proved to be way too strong for G3. He needed multiple upgrades to even stand toe to toe with the Lords.

Kuuga's AP was from EoS and Agito's feat was done before BoS. El of the Water has gotten so much stronger since then. I don't want to say the whole scaling chain again but I think Kuuga and Agito's AP should be similar. The only thing is that Kuuga has RPL that comes when he is in a life threatening situation but Agito has his rage power that activates the moment he becomes Burning Form and gets stronger according to his emotions.

This is Kuuga in Amazing Mighty Form, he has none of his weapons besides his hands and feet to counter Agito. He won't have Rising Dragon's agility. He also won't have Pegasus's enhanced senses while Burning form has better senses than Agito's Flame Form (which is Agito's version of equivalent of Pegasus Form and Titan Form) and even Trinity Form. Agito will react to Kuuga easily.

In terms of finishers, Kuuga's mark explodes people but a regular slash from Shining Caliber destroys people. Shining Calibur has the wider and longer range while Amazing Mighty has his kick which he only hit because the monster wanted a clash where both hits their moves.

The police took a lot of time to kill the Gurongi and it was done via nerve-breaking bullets. Again, that is simply because the Lord are physically stronger than Gurongi but nothing implied they're as smart as the latter. In fact the Gurongi are shown to be more analytical killer than the Lord whom just simply went on killing spree without thinking much. Also, we're talking EoS version so early series feat doesn't really affect much.

3x AP is a clear advantage for Kuuga, and in this situation Kuuga can amp as fast as Agito can. Agito rage power doesn't make him stronger than his opponent in a span of second, especially when they got higher AP. My point still stand.

Even Mighty Form have dozen of times senses and perception greater than human and both are engaged in CQC so enhanced sense matter much. Agito have weapons but Kuuga can just dodge it or disarm him.

Any hit from Kuuga's could stamped explosive mark in Agito body, not to mention, he also resist explosion so Agito wouldn't able to do the same thing to Kuuga.

 

[IxaSaga2]

The police took a lot of time to kill the Gurongi and it was done via nerve-breaking bullets. Again, that is simply because the Lord are physically stronger than Gurongi but nothing implied they're as smart as the latter. In fact the Gurongi are shown to be more analytical killer than the Lord whom just simply went on killing spree without thinking much. Also, we're talking EoS version so early series feat doesn't really affect much.

It doesn't really matter that the Gurongis or the Lords are smarter or not. At the end of the day, it's always a 1v1 between the rider and the monsters. The Lords simply were the tougher opponents with more hax that Agito had to deal with.

3x AP is a clear advantage for Kuuga, and in this situation Kuuga can amp as fast as Agito can. Agito rage power doesn't make him stronger than his opponent in a span of second, especially when they got higher AP. My point still stand.

Kuuga's amps only comes when he basically dies. Agito's rage power amp comes immediately, we see this in the Agito: A new transformation special. El of the Water in his strengthened form (way stronger than the 10 GT feat) 1v4 all the Agito riders easily. With Amps, Burning Agito sent EoW back flying even when he couldn't do anything previously.

Even Mighty Form have dozen of times senses and perception greater than human and both are engaged in CQC so enhanced sense matter much. Agito have weapons but Kuuga can just dodge it or disarm him.

Agito's Flame Form is his counterpart to Kuuga's Pegasus. Trinity Form upscales from that. Burning further upscales. Agito's enhanced senses goes incredibly well with CQC. We see this so much in Flame Form's fights. If Kuuga can just dodge, then why can't Agito?

Any hit from Kuuga's could stamped explosive mark in Agito body, not to mention, he also resist explosion so Agito wouldn't able to do the same thing to Kuuga.

Agito got hit by Another Agito's Assault Kick and did not explode.

 

[Lonkitt]

Bump

 

[Jamesthetaker]

It doesn't really matter that the Gurongis or the Lords are smarter or not. At the end of the day, it's always a 1v1 between the rider and the monsters. The Lords simply were the tougher opponents with more hax that Agito had to deal with.

Kuuga's amps only comes when he basically dies. Agito's rage power amp comes immediately, we see this in the Agito: A new transformation special. El of the Water in his strengthened form (way stronger than the 10 GT feat) 1v4 all the Agito riders easily. With Amps, Burning Agito sent EoW back flying even when he couldn't do anything previously.

Agito's Flame Form is his counterpart to Kuuga's Pegasus. Trinity Form upscales from that. Burning further upscales. Agito's enhanced senses goes incredibly well with CQC. We see this so much in Flame Form's fights. If Kuuga can just dodge, then why can't Agito?

Agito got hit by Another Agito's Assault Kick and did not explode.

I agree with the Lords are physically stronger than Gurongi but the latter are more skilled due to being ancient warrior and analytical killer. Have you seen the Lords done any notable skills feat, aside from just killing random people?

Kuuga's amp come when he's severely wounded which is how he got Rising/Amazing Mighty form in the first. If anything Kuuga amps literally boost him from 8-C to Low 7-B then 6-C which worked for long lasting result then just short time solution like Agito. I will say it again, 3x AP isn't no joke.

Both have to engaged in CQC no matter what, enhanced senses is good but that won't make him untouchable or anything hell he got hit once or twice.

There is alot of thing need to be clear up with Kamen Rider explosive kick: First of all, it happened when they using finisher or having higher AP than opponent, its not like they can make explosive by touching them. Second, if the enemy have good endurance or higher durability they can survived being blown up as shown many times.

If we assume that they can survived Rider's finisher then we need an explicit explaining it rather than just said:"They just survived it".

 

[IxaSaga2]

I agree with the Lords are physically stronger than Gurongi but the latter are more skilled due to being ancient warrior and analytical killer. Have you seen the Lords done any notable skills feat, aside from just killing random people?

The Gurongis being analytical killers are basically killing people with a pattern, anyone can come up with that. The police forces found out the patterns very easily. Yes they are ancient warriors, but the still preyed on weaker tribes that weren't able to combat them without the help of the Lords. The Lords were shown to be better at coordinated attack which every rider from Agito had to deal with. Gurongis just goes in 1 by 1 and all die to Kuuga. This mistake is probably what caused them to lose to the original Kuuga.

Kuuga's amp come when he's severely wounded which is how he got Rising/Amazing Mighty form in the first. If anything Kuuga amps literally boost him from 8-C to Low 7-B then 6-C which worked for long lasting result then just short time solution like Agito. I will say it again, 3x AP isn't no joke.

As I said, Agito Burning Form severely outclasses the 10 GT feat. I don't thinks its a 3x AP gap. First the 10 GT feat was done by EoW before the series. He took some hits from Agito and were visibly hurt making Ground Form 10 GT. After some time when he came back half way into the series, he was able to stomp Agito, Gills and G3-X. This means he got much more powerful. After that, Burning Form killed him with Burning Bomber and EoW was revived with a much stronger form. This time he was able to beat Burning Form, EX Gills, G3-X and Another Agito all at once. EX Gills and Another Agito at this point were comparable if not stronger than Burning Form. Agito in Burning Form suddenly came back and amped himself to smack EoW right in the chest and hurt him tremendously when Burning Form, EX Gills, Another Agito and G3-X couldn't hurt him at all. Strengthened EoW is no joke, it took Burning Rider Punch, EX Gills Heel Claw, Assault Kick and Shining Rider Kick to finish him off.

About the amps, yes, Kuuga can recover himself from near death experiences and get stronger but Kuuga only got those massive amps from getting shocked by while he was in the E.R. That won't apply here.

Both have to engaged in CQC no matter what, enhanced senses is good but that won't make him untouchable or anything hell he got hit once or twice.

That same enhanced senses made Agito react to an attack that is moving faster than Agito could see it. He could still get hit, but any choreographed move (Kuuga's Amazing Mighty Kick), Agito will easily react.

There is alot of thing need to be clear up with Kamen Rider explosive kick: First of all, it happened when they using finisher or having higher AP than opponent, its not like they can make explosive by touching them. Second, if the enemy have good endurance or higher durability they can survived being blown up as shown many times.

Agito's Shining Caliber are basically finishers from the get go. Agito killed EoW in two hits from Shining Caliber, anything who was slashed a few times by Twin Mode died. Burning Form one shotted a Lord that were comparable to him (Mantis Lord) during the show with one punch.

If we assume that they can survived Rider's finisher then we need an explicit explaining it rather than just said:"They just survived it".

Agito Ground form got hit with Assault Kick when El of Water redirected it. He de-transformed by it naturally because Another Agito is comparable to EX Gills but did not explode. After some time, he got back up and started fighting again, now in Burning Form.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Pretty much every Gurongi have a unique pattern of their own and they were fighting for a long time before, that alone make them smarter than any Lord. Can you shown me an example of the Lord skills feat aside from them using numbers to overwhelming opponent?

You cannot cover Agito disadvantage by a circular scaling chain, that would mean he can do the same to someone who's 5x stronger than him. Rage amp is good but actual value are decisive factor.

Kuuga have enhanced senses as well and this is Amazing Mighty so it's better than base form, Agito cannot dodge every hits from Kuuga.

So? Pretty much a kick from Kuuga can finish Agito easily, plus with higher AP mean that he won't waste time doing that.

Make another CRT for Agito if you wanted to add that, right now Kuuga have an explicit resistance to explosion manip.

 

[IxaSaga2]

Pretty much every Gurongi have a unique pattern of their own and they were fighting for a long time before, that alone make them smarter than any Lord. Can you shown me an example of the Lord skills feat aside from them using numbers to overwhelming opponent?

As I said before, Gurongis were fighting people like the Linto who were a peaceful tribe (and even weaker version of humans because the Rose Gurongi said "The Lnitos have changed). I mean the unique patterns are basically, "Let's kill people that drives in Taxis", or "I'll kill people that's driving a truck". It doesn't make them tactical geniuses. The police just have to link the info together.

The Lords have killed people with seed of Agito, at that point people in the Akatsuki can use telekinesis and all the things related to seed of Agito, one even killed Gills by drowning him using TK. The Lords swatted away all their attempts to kill them and killed all the Akatsuki.

You cannot cover Agito disadvantage by a circular scaling chain, that would mean he can do the same to someone who's 5x stronger than him. Rage amp is good but actual value are decisive factor.

I'm not covering it. 10 GT scales to casual El of Water and Burning form is simply way stronger than him at full power being able to one-shot him. Y'all gonna have to watch Agito to see how much of a menace the EoW was when he returned.

Kuuga have enhanced senses as well and this is Amazing Mighty so it's better than base form, Agito cannot dodge every hits from Kuuga.

Amazing Might is upscale from Mighty and Rising Mighty not Pegasus who is better than both.

So? Pretty much a kick from Kuuga can finish Agito easily, plus with higher AP mean that he won't waste time doing that.

And Agito can kill Kuuga easily with a slash from shining calibur.

Make another CRT for Agito if you wanted to add that, right now Kuuga have an explicit resistance to explosion manip.

I will be making Agito part 2 soon.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

I have never said that Gurongi were genius in anyway, however, some shown that they were at least tactical in killing people rather than just doing randomly. Here is some example:

Lower Gurongi known to take advantage of their abilities like Me-Badjisu-Ba abusing his range to kill his prey from above, Me-Giiga-Gi using hit n run tactic when he need to cool down. Higher Gurongi have their own personal weapon and rules for each of them like Go-Buuro-Gu who tear off his wing to avoid being blown up, Go-Bemiu-Gi pierce a number of victims equal to each succeeding note in a pattern, Go-Bada-da are skilled motorcyclist comparable to Kuuga.

Not to mention, they were fighting previous Kuuga in a long time so its implies that they should have experience in combat as well. What matter is how the Gurongi ultilized their ability and Kuuga have fought numerous of them in different way as well. I have only seen the Els being good at using their ability but it is pale comparing to the unique styles the Gurongi have given.

Agito's rage amp can one-shot a 10 Gigatons but that's how far he can go, we cannot assume the same thing would happened if he faced someone who is 3x stronger than him. Honestly, you are overestimating Agito rage power here.

That's what i said, Amazing Mighty massively scales above Mighty and Rising Mighty. It not like Agito can predict the future or anything, Kuuga can pretty much hit him as normal.

It won't be easily against a guy with 3x AP advantage.

 

[IxaSaga2]

I have never said that Gurongi were genius in anyway, however, some shown that they were at least tactical in killing people rather than just doing randomly. Here is some example:

Yea, I definitely hyperbolized that.

Lower Gurongi known to take advantage of their abilities like Me-Badjisu-Ba abusing his range to kill his prey from above, Me-Giiga-Gi using hit n run tactic when he need to cool down. Higher Gurongi have their own personal weapon and rules for each of them like Go-Buuro-Gu who tear off his wing to avoid being blown up, Go-Bemiu-Gi pierce a number of victims equal to each succeeding note in a pattern, Go-Bada-da are skilled motorcyclist comparable to Kuuga.

Not to mention, they were fighting previous Kuuga in a long time so its implies that they should have experience in combat as well. What matter is how the Gurongi ultilized their ability and Kuuga have fought numerous of them in different way as well. I have only seen the Els being good at using their ability but it is pale comparing to the unique styles the Gurongi have given.

The Gurongis are pretty varied when it comes to that. I think the most impressive being Go-Bemiu-Gi. Besides that, the Lords have shown a lot of capable things too. Most of them are skilled with their weapons and use their advantages really well. One of them fought with Agito on top of a moving car without losing balance. A lot of them can dodge and reflect bullets from G3.

Agito's rage amp can one-shot a 10 Gigatons but that's how far he can go, we cannot assume the same thing would happened if he faced someone who is 3x stronger than him. Honestly, you are overestimating Agito rage power here.

I would say that if EoW didn't get strengthen by Lord of Darkness. EoW Strengthen Form is disgustingly stronger than his 10 GT form with a good amount of new abilities. Since there's no definitive multiplier so I'll do a comparison, EoW regular form is defeated by Burning Form but can stomp base Gills and G3-X in a 2v1. EoW strengthen form stomps Agito Burning Form, G3-X, EX Gills, and Another Agito and he also got straight back up from being hit by 3 finishers.

That's what i said, Amazing Mighty massively scales above Mighty and Rising Mighty. It not like Agito can predict the future or anything, Kuuga can pretty much hit him as normal.

Burning Form would be great at dodging and reacting to attacks is what I mean since Flame Form can perfectly hit a Lord at is flying faster than Agito could see him while being blindsided.

I feel like I'm repeating myself too much though, so I rest my case.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Yeah, we both laid out our reason well so i will let others to vote on whoever they wanted.

 

[Lonkitt]

Bump

 

[Lonkitt]

Bump

 

[Lonkitt]

Bump. Also keep in mind both Kuuga and Agito have explosion resistance because of the recent revisions

 

[Lonkitt]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Both sides' reasonings are too good

Incon FRA

 

[Lonkitt]

Vote counted for Incon

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Incon FRA

 

[Lonkitt]

Incon gets a vote

 

[IxaSaga2]

I can settle for an incon.

 

[Lonkitt]

Is that a vote swap?

 

[IxaSaga2]

yea

 

[Lonkitt]

Incon vote counted

 

[Lonkitt]

Bump

 

[Lonkitt]

Bump

 

[Lonkitt]

Bump

 

[Lonkitt]

Bump

 

[Lonkitt]

Bump

 

[Sonicflare9]

incon fra

 

[Lonkitt]

Incon vote counted