Kuubou Nakiri's AP revision

[THOK_AST_THOK]

This has come to my attention recently. As per his own page, this is the justification of his AP

Multi-Continent level as Foreshock (Can casually shake the entire planet with his quakes. Hits with the force of a moving continent). Multi-Solar System level as Mainshock (Is trillion of times stronger than his foreshock state, and his quakes can reach to the other side of the universe and even shake it just from the initial activation of this phase), higher with time (His tremors increase in strength and range with each second and starts to spread over all of creation)

I'm not sure about the former, but the latter is rated as such due to a calc that put a universe shaking feat to be in that level.

However, i think using that calc alone have an issue. Being that Kuubou's quake does more than just shaking something that it affect

This is also something that's explained in his page, complete with some scans even

Quake Generation: As the embodiment of earthquakes, Nakiri is able to generate them without limit. These quakes represent Nakiri's nature as a God of Destruction, annihilating anything in his path and turning all things to dust. Cracks appear in space from the vibrations he emits, and can even destroy the space they travel through. This wave of destruction can even reach the nucleus of an atom, completely atomizing all that it touches. There are two levels of this ability, Foreshock, and Mainshock:

I'm just going to copy-paste my post on other thread regarding my opinion on this matter

Atomizing and spatial destruction are just what the quake does. While Foreshock and Mainshock are just the level on which the earthquake operate on differing scale. What he shook is what he annihilates, what he shook is what he atomizes, what he shook is what he spatially destroys. This is the base ability of his earthquake generation. Foreshock and Mainshock are just at what scale this quake is operating. With the latter being universal. Hence 3-A

This seems to be the case where the range/AoE of the attack directly translate into AP to me. And as the scan in the AP part said, it's universal in scale. Which i guess would fall into the range of tier 3-A, as per this site's definition of it

• Universe level: Characters who can destroy all of the physical matter within an observable universe at full power. More specifically, usually via an explosion, omnidirectional energy blast, or a shockwave, that encompasses all of the stars and planets within a universe.

tl;dr

My proposal is to change Kuubou Nakiri's tiering. His Foreshock being 5-B from High 6-A as it's described as

Multi-Continent level as Foreshock (Can casually shake the entire planet with his quakes. Hits with the force of a moving continent).

Because it's pretty much an atomization+spatial destruction on the scale of a planet

While his Mainshock being 3-A from 4-A as it's described as

Multi-Solar System level as Mainshock (Is trillion of times stronger than his foreshock state, and his quakes can reach to the other side of the universe and even shake it just from the initial activation of this phase)

Because, again, it's pretty much an atomization+spatial destruction on the scale of a universe

If there's something from within the game that would contend this claim, then post them right away.

Also. A little reading on this series' summary from its wikipedia page told me that most of the story took place in a realm called Dream World (Canaan). And Kuubou's character summary gave that he resides in the deeper layer of Canaan. And from what i know about the realm itself, it would need the end point of Amakasu's Ragnarok for it to be destroyed (with the end point of Ragnarok being a destruction on 2-B scale)

So i don't think something like "If its really that high tier then why the setting is still intact?" or "why is Earth still intact?" or "why does the setting still exist for it to have a sequel?" or something along those line would be a good point for contention. I'd personally attribute that to Canaan being that durable and/or having some more additional properties that i might don't know about, considering it has like 8[?] layers with stuff starting to be funky from the 4th layer onwards

 

[Zensum]

Like I said on other thread I agree with this justification regarding the idea of the spatial attack's AP being gauged by its AoE, if there's no contention. Also do you think this might affect Reinhard's tiering too?

 

[Gun_Slave_Unit]

saw this earlier but was somewhat hesitant to reply as i'm not even slightly familiar with the series. but i think the idea behind it makes sense. if i've got some character who can destroy something spatially, i'd gauge them by their aoe as well.

 

[THOK_AST_THOK]

Like I said on other thread I agree with this justification regarding the idea of the spatial attack's AP being gauged by its AoE, if there's no contention. Also do you think this might affect Reinhard's tiering too?

I don't have Reinhard's tiering in mind when i made this. And to be quite honest, it's really none of my concern. Whether Reinhard's AP would be affected by this or not, assuming this CRT goes through, i'll let people judge it on another CRT. My point on making this CRT was not to affect Reinhard's tiering, i just found an issue with this guy being 4-A judging by how his power works as explained in the scans within his page

 

[Zensum]

@Thok Ight if this goes through, someone will figure it out.

 

[Antvasima]

You can use he Masadaverse page to find people to politely ask to comment here.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

As far as I've known, Reinhard (as do others like Yakou and Sensory Merc) will end up being scaled too as, though I tried finding this on Masada's own Twitter, WoG...from Masada again, states that Reinhard is equal to Amakasu's Ragnarok Gods who are equal to or greater than Huanglong, who is in turn stronger than Nakiri here at his strongest (something about Gods being greater than Tatari's/Waste Gods, which Nakiri is the of the latter category and his original self Huanglong is of the former).

So IF Nakiri does in fact become 3-A by sheer AoE, Reinhard and other's scaled around them like Yakou and stuff will scale too. At least that's how it's been done for what I've heard from ALRF.

Even without mentioning them, I don't mind Nakiri being 3-A but I would prefer to hear what others have to say before we do anything about this.

 

[THOK_AST_THOK]

I couldn't care less. This is not a thread to talk about Reinhard. Don't derail the thread with something that can be done in another thread under an entirely different topic. The focus here is Kuubou Nakiri, not Reinhard Heydrich.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Like I how I mentioned others beyond Reinhard and you only point to him. And I did say "even without mentioning them", which is another way of me saying "That aside".

But okay. If you say so.

Edit: I don't even particular care anyways since I don't really do edits much for this verse (still like it a lot, just not into it since there's not much for me that I can...well work with). THAT ASIDE, I don't mind 3-A for Kuubou and I guess 5-B for his base/initial state as long as others are reasoned with this as well.

 

[Antvasima]

You can use he Masadaverse page to find people to politely ask to comment here.

^

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

well i did hear about it spreading through all of creation and I think this makes sense overall

 

[Antvasima]

It is probably best to ask ALRF as well.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

That's going to be hard to do if not close to impossible seeing as his message wall now says with a tag reading "indefinite hiatus" which I take now means he won't be responding anytime soon...

It's worth a try though cuz he usually will pop up randomly out of nowhere but I doubt he'll answer asap. (Shrugs)

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I know this is technically a necro, but this seems important to bump.

This should be calc'd though, no?

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody summarise what needs to be done here?

 

[Warren_Valion]

Can somebody summarise what needs to be done here?

From my understanding...

Nakiri Kuubou is a God of Destruction and the embodiment of Earthquakes, and thus has the ability to "generate earthquakes without limit". However, Nakiri's earthquakes not only shake objects/people/things, but at the same time - they atomize them.

"Quake Generation: As the embodiment of earthquakes, Nakiri is able to generate them without limit. These quakes represent Nakiri's nature as a God of Destruction, annihilating anything in his path and turning all things to dust. Cracks appear in space from the vibrations he emits, and can even destroy the space they travel through. This wave of destruction can even reach the nucleus of an atom, completely atomizing all that it touches. There are two levels of this ability, Foreshock, and Mainshock"

Nakiri's ability to generate earthquakes isn't just shaking a structure - anything that Nakiri shakes with his earthquakes gets atomized.

And thus using the generic calc of shaking the universe calc is inaccurate, because Nakiri doesn't just shake the universe - he is atomizing it at the same time. So, Nakiri's Foreshock (the High 6-A one) should be a higher tier - likely 5-B for shaking/atomizing the planet.

And his Mainshock (the 4-A one) should be a higher tier - likely 3-A for shaking/atomizing the universe.


That's what the OP is stating from my understanding.

 

[Sera_EX]

Shaking the universe is not 3-A. Even if High 6-A gets bumped up to 5-B, a trillion times 5-B is not 3-A. This includes if it's "spatial destruction" on a universal scale. It's Universal range perhaps but the attack potency is nowhere near 3-A.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Shaking the universe is not 3-A. Even if High 6-A gets bumped up to 5-B, a trillion times 5-B is not 3-A. This includes if it's "spatial destruction" on a universal scale. It's Universal range perhaps but the attack potency is nowhere near 3-A.

It's not "just shaking the universe" though.

"Quake Generation: As the embodiment of earthquakes, Nakiri is able to generate them without limit. These quakes represent Nakiri's nature as a God of Destruction, annihilating anything in his path and turning all things to dust. Cracks appear in space from the vibrations he emits, and can even destroy the space they travel through. This wave of destruction can even reach the nucleus of an atom, completely atomizing all that it touches. There are two levels of this ability, Foreshock, and Mainshock"

Everything that Nakiri is shaking is being atomized at the same time.

If Nakiri is shaking the universe with the initial activation of his Mainshock, then that would mean that he is also atomizing that which he is shaking - the universe in this case.

And would atomizing the Universe not be 3-A?


At least, that's what the OP is stating.

 

[Sera_EX]

Nope, it's literally a 1,000,000,000,000x 5-B earthquake that reaches the other side of the universe. That's Universal range, not Attack Potency.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Nope, it's literally a 1,000,000,000,000x 5-B earthquake that reaches the other side of the universe. That's Universal range, not Attack Potency.

You're taking the multiplier of being "trillions of times stronger than before" too seriously, the description of the power disproves the multiplier from being numerically accurate in this case.

Also, when has a multipler ever been taking as law when it is disproven in the series?


The ability's range equals its potency when using the description of the Nakiri's Wave of Destruction/his tremors. Nakiri's tremors destroy so completely that they can even reach the nucleus of an atom, completely atomizing all that it touches.


They completely atomized all that they touch - since the ability starts with universal range at the activation of the Mainshock, that means that the tremor is "touching" the universe, and thus it is atomizing said universe simultaneously.

The tremors are also said to increase in strength and range with each second - again, showing that they are connected, and that later, said tremors will start to spread over all of creation.


Also, to state that the Foreshock is 5-B is to agree with the fact that Nakiri's tremors are atomizing all they touch and shake - otherwise shaking a planet is High 6-A - which Nakiri is currently rated.

 

[Sera_EX]

If starts at universal range then yes, I'm okay with 3-A then.

 

[Warren_Valion]

If starts at universal range then yes, I'm okay with 3-A then.

Multi-Solar System level as Mainshock (Is trillion of times stronger than his foreshock state, and his quakes can reach to the other side of the universe and even shake it just from the initial activation of this phase)

His quakes can reach the other side of the universe and shake the entire structure from just the initial activation of the Mainshock - so I believe it does start at Universal range.

 

[Sera_EX]

Alrighty. Done deal.

 

[Antvasima]

So should I unlock the page so one of you can edit it, or should we wait for more responses?

 

[Sera_EX]

I'd wait for more responses, since it'll involve scaling.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

This looks good to me.

Should scale to Reinhard Heydrich, Mercurius, Yakou Madara, Amakasu Masahiko's summons and Shinno Akikage

 

[Warren_Valion]

So should I unlock the page so one of you can edit it, or should we wait for more responses?

Waiting for more responses would likely be best.

Hell, this isn't even my CRT - I am just taking what the OP wrote and trying to simplify it because you asked for it.

Not to mention the repercussions that this upgrade would entail are quite large and should likely be evaluated by others as well before having the changes made.


What I mean is this...

Amakasu can summon gods stronger than a being stronger than Nakiri.

Amakasu has this AP description stating that:

"Planet level physically (Masada has stated that he can destroy the planet with enough energy leftover to keep on going 'afterwards'), Multi-Solar System level with 'summons' (He can summon gods stronger than Huanglong, who is in turn superior 'than' his Tatari self, Nakiri Kuubou)."

Reinhard Heydrich, and thus Yakou Madara and Sensory Mercurius as well for scaling to Reinhard, scale to Amakasu's strongest summons according to WoG.

"Multi-Solar System level (Word of God states Reinhard is equal to Amakasu Masahiko's Gods summoned through Ragnarok, 'whom' are stronger than Huanglong, who is, in turn, stronger than his Tatari self, Nakiri Kuubou)"


So upgrading Nakiri to 3-A also upgrades those who scale to 3-A as well from my understanding of the scaling chain.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

From what I remember AL telling me this of Kuubou, his quakes can quickly cover over the universe (or reach all over? whichever one makes sense to say) in what was either an instant or in seconds or something he said so not like already over but can very quickly cover all that range in such a short time.

As for tier upgrading, I'm fine with it if everyone else here is too. And, despite THOK's earlier remark about these people not being related yet they are by extension, this ofc will scale to the other non-Senshinkan chars (i.e DI Reinhard, Sensory Merc, and Colorless Taikyoku Yakou) as well as Amakasu's God summons considering the whole God > Tatari thing.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

i think most of us agree on 3-A and do agree on how this scales overall

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I'm neutral on this and I don't know anything about senshinkan so you can do as you please ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»

 

[Gun_Slave_Unit]

the op made his intention clear on this thread. while this might affect other pages as well, the sole intention of this thread was to take care of nakiri kuubou alone and the scaling that it'll bring should be discussed on another thread so as to not clutter the thread.

on that regard. nakiri kuubou's current justification for his ap is as follow

Multi-Continent level as Foreshock (Can casually shake the entire planet with his quakes. Hits with the force of a moving continent). Multi-Solar System level as Mainshock (Is trillion of times stronger than his foreshock state, and his quakes can reach to the other side of the universe and even shake it just from the initial activation of this phase), higher with time (His tremors increase in strength and range with each secondand starts to spread over all of creation)

feels like the wording is already good enough so i guess the change would look like this?

Planet level as Foreshock (Can casually shake the entire planet with his quakes. Hits with the force of a moving continent). Universe level as Mainshock (Is trillion of times stronger than his foreshock state, and his quakes can reach to the other side of the universe and even shake it just from the initial activation of this phase), higher with time (His tremors increase in strength and range with each secondand starts to spread over all of creation)

maybe adding some note about how it atomizes and spatially destroy what it shakes too?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

that could help in explaining how the quakes work

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

We can ofc just focus getting this out of the way and then go and change up the others after. Only after this, I mean.

On-topic, it probably is a good idea to explain in the AP on how the quakes work. Though I thought it was already noted on the PnA or Techniques area?

 

[Gun_Slave_Unit]

it is. but might as well put in the ap justification as well

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Shaking the planet is not 5B you might want to change the justification for planet level

 

[Warren_Valion]

Yeah, you kind of need to explain the nature of Nakiri's quakes in his AP justification for it make sense.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

What these guys said.

Shaking the Earth can from Low 6-B to as high as High 6-A so it'll need to be edited in order to explain why Kuubou will be 5-B at his Base state.

 

[Gun_Slave_Unit]

how about something like this?

Planet level as Foreshock (Can casually shake the entire planet with his quakes. The tremor that Nakiri Kuubou generates also atomize and spatially destroy what it affect, which in this case would be the entire planet. Hits with the force of a moving continent).

for his foreshock's ap.

Universe level as Mainshock (Is trillion of times stronger than his foreshock state, and his quakes can reach to the other side of the universe and even shake it just from the initial activation of this phase. Due to the nature of his tremor, this would mean hes also atomizing and spatially destroying them), higher with time (His tremors increase in strength and range with each second and starts to spread over all of creation)

for his mainshock's ap