Kousuke Endou Vs The Sorrow - Battle for 4th Strongest 8-B Non - Smurfs

[Expectro2000xxx]

SBA, speed equalizated, After Stories Kousuke.

Kousuke Endou: 0

vs

The Sorrow: 0

Inco: 0

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Noneless21]

it's funny how the other vs theead about hajime and shia got some responds but endou's vs thread is not as popular, he's invisible even in the real world lol poor endou

that aside, if the sorrow manage to beat endou before he reaches coolness V then he may be in trouble

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

that aside, if the sorrow manage to beat endou before he reaches coolness V then he may be in trouble

The Sorrow probably isn't even able to detect Kousuke or remember him do to his pressence, similarly he probably can't even detect or affect Hidzuki who will automatically come out if his life is in actual danger.

Kousuke also resist his haxs so to beat him Sorrow would need to use normal attacks which realistically is impossible considering the skill of Kousuke and the things that he normally fight. Also, Kousuke can reach Depth V instantly with Last Zell.

And in the improbable case that he actually could kill him Kousuke will automatically resurrect with the smartphone.

The most realistical win con Sorrow have is BFR, which arguably can be countered with a call to Hajime (which for example showed to be his first option when he was send to the other world in the school trip, though in that time it didn't worked since the cellphones still didn't had the ability to talk between worlds).

Sorrow also don't have resistance against the fear and maddness manip of the sight of Kousuke multiplying which would mean that if he see said thing even with precognition his SAN value will instantly drop (and we know that even people with supernatural willpower and resistances when having a low SAN value lost the conciousness, have memory lost and even turn mentally in infants), so I'm not sure if he could BFR before turn crazy.

In general I'm pretty sure Kousuke takes this but just in case I made the thread to see if someone can bring arguments for Sorrow.

 

[Noneless21]

I mean I'm not MGS fan so I don't even know about the sorrow till this thread is created tbh so let's wait for MGS fan for the debate

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Noneless21]

Bump

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Armorchompy]

The Sorrow probably isn't even able to detect Kousuke or remember him do to his pressence, similarly he probably can't even detect or affect Hidzuki who will automatically come out if his life is in actual danger.

I don't believe this Kousuke resists precog, right? Unless that's the case the Sorrow would basically do the optimal thing, which is BFR him immediately, given that his precog is basically nigh-omniscience/very strong cosmic awareness.

Kousuke also resist his haxs

I see no resistance to BFR.

so to beat him Sorrow would need to use normal attacks which realistically is impossible considering the skill of Kousuke and the things that he normally fight.

That's not a claim I would make given the skill floor and ceiling of MGS, not that it matters here.

The most realistical win con Sorrow have is BFR, which arguably can be countered with a call to Hajime (which for example showed to be his first option when he was send to the other world in the school trip, though in that time it didn't worked since the cellphones still didn't had the ability to talk between worlds).

Outside help?

Sorrow also don't have resistance against the fear and maddness manip of the sight of Kousuke multiplying which would mean that if he see said thing even with precognition his SAN value will instantly drop (and we know that even people with supernatural willpower and resistances when having a low SAN value lost the conciousness, have memory lost and even turn mentally in infants), so I'm not sure if he could BFR before turn crazy.

I doubt Madness Type 3 would have the same level of effect on a nigh-omniscient being.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I don't believe this Kousuke resists precog, right? Unless that's the case the Sorrow would basically do the optimal thing, which is BFR him immediately, given that his precog is basically nigh-omniscience/very strong cosmic awareness.

I see no resistance to BFR.

That's not a claim I would make given the skill floor and ceiling of MGS, not that it matters here.

Outside help?

I doubt Madness Type 3 would have the same level of effect on a nigh-omniscient being.

The problem is that do to his presence even people can't remember him or detect him even despite the fact that they are perfectly able to do so, for example even inside a space completely controled by a AI when she was in guard against him she forgot about his existence (which was her doom).

The only thing Kousuke don't resist is BFR, which can be countered with 1) Use his smartphone that can communicate to people in others worlds/dimensions to call Hajime or the wives (which was the first option he showed to try when he was send to another world) 2) Use Hidzuki to communicate with Hajime group or even fight The Sorrow since she can cross the worlds with her powers, The Sorrow also should be unable to detect her since she is a abstract existence 3) The moment he is send to another word the connection with his clones around the world would cut, which in turn would inform others about his condition and a force would be send to go for him (which is something that happened before).

Unless there is any proof to assume he wouldn't be affected by it he would still become crazy do to low SAN value.

 

[Armorchompy]

The problem is that do to his presence even people can't remember him or detect him even despite the fact that they are perfectly able to do so, for example even inside a space completely controled by a AI when she was in guard against him she forgot about his existence (which was her doom).

I don't believe this is enough evidence that a character like the Sorrow wouldn't spot him. Hell, I'm pretty sure he can sense souls anyway, and I don't believe his "stealth" extends to those, right?

The only thing Kousuke don't resist is BFR, which can be countered with 1) Use his smartphone that can communicate to people in others worlds/dimensions to call Hajime or the wives (which was the first option he showed to try when he was send to another world)

That would be outside help, which matches don't allow.

Unless there is any proof to assume he wouldn't be affected by it he would still become crazy do to low SAN value.

I literally don't even know what that is. Nevermind that the match would be over before that.

And no, Type 3 is based on something inflicting despair, if your perception of reality is beyond that of a normal human you would realistically have more resistance to that.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I don't believe this is enough evidence that a character like the Sorrow wouldn't spot him. Hell, I'm pretty sure he can sense souls anyway, and I don't believe his "stealth" extends to those, right?

That would be outside help, which matches don't allow.

I literally don't even know what that is. Nevermind that the match would be over before that.

And no, Type 3 is based on something inflicting despair, if your perception of reality is beyond that of a normal human you would realistically have more resistance to that.

His presence extend to everything in verse, ghost, pure souls, dead spirits, AIs, abstracts existences, hell his presence is even far superior than a being born from the concept of be undetectable, that's why is said several times that his presence is in the realm of the non-existence.

Yaya no Hidzuki is literally a summon and a being that automatically protect him which appear in his profile, and outside help is valid depending of the case, in this case should be completely fine since call him Hajime is a move he can and will do in fights if needed (which he have proved various times), similarly the disappearence of clones should be valid since it's a defensive mean that happened before in story. Though to be sure could be asked the opinion of @Celestial_Pegasus in this regard.

Low SAN value have affected beings with supernatural willpower with mental resistances and with a perception of reality beyond that of normal humans.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Hajime helping is very iffy honestly, from this the rules are:

"Outside Influence: None. No characters of either verse, aside from those participating in the battle, may influence the outcome of the battle in any way. That means they may not join the fight, grant buffs, create shields, provide information etc. Exceptions are things like blessings, calling upon some higher entities power for a spell, summoning familiars to battle for them, having another character as equipment or more generally spoken the things which are listed on the profile as part of a characters own powers and abilities."

Hajime is not equipment nor some sort of summon, yes he has the smartphone which can contact Hajime, but this is different from directly summoning him to use in battle. Yaya on the other hand has literally marked Endou and he has her horn to summon her.

Btw sensing souls isn't enough to sense Endou, Hajime and co can do that stuff, and even they also forget the dude's existence, there is a reason why his skill is said multiple times to be an erasure of existence itself.

 

[Noneless21]

Then we can assume that the sorrow can't detect endou then?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Lets put it this way, Endou has the highest stealth in verse, where presence sensing is a basically skill with levels, a lvl 1 sense presence can't detect a lvl 1 hide presence, hence why Hajime was almost screwed when he encountered it way back in Tortus, Hajime then goes on to be able to sense those monster who can hide their presence, and levels up his presence sensing skill.

Fast forward, Hajime getting way stronger, being able to detect mana, heat, and even see souls, and yet even he forgets about Endou, and has a very hard time finding him in combat.

Endou is absurd, like his closest friends often forget the dude even exists for weeks at a time, absolutely nobody notices when he is gone for long stretches of time, even his own parents.

 

[Noneless21]

Sheesh man, endou might as well has limited memory manip that makes other people forget about him. Then the sorrow probably wouldn't detect him and get screwed

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Hajime helping is very iffy honestly, from this the rules are:

"Outside Influence: None. No characters of either verse, aside from those participating in the battle, may influence the outcome of the battle in any way. That means they may not join the fight, grant buffs, create shields, provide information etc. Exceptions are things like blessings, calling upon some higher entities power for a spell, summoning familiars to battle for them, having another character as equipment or more generally spoken the things which are listed on the profile as part of a characters own powers and abilities."

Hajime is not equipment nor some sort of summon, yes he has the smartphone which can contact Hajime, but this is different from directly summoning him to use in battle. Yaya on the other hand has literally marked Endou and he has her horn to summon he

Don't Kousuke meet the requirement? I mean, he called him to use his Bel Agartha to destroy something he himself was unable (the ka-chin chapter in the end of the berserker arc), in the exorcist arc he also tried to contact him (though it failed do to Hajime be in Hell in his date with Shia), and literally the first thing Kousuke tried when he noticed that he ended in another world in the beginning of the onmyouji arc was try to call Hajime (though he failed since the phone in that point still was unable to connect with other worlds). I think it should be somewhat valid but well.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Sheesh man, endou might as well has limited memory manip that makes other people forget about him. Then the sorrow probably wouldn't detect him and get screwed

I actually considered various times try to give him that in a crt btw.

The fact that he even surpassed the presence of the apparition with the conception of be undetectable is quite absurd honestly.

 

[Noneless21]

I actually considered various times try to give him that in a crt btw.

I mean it makes sense that he got passive limited memory manip that makes other people forget about him.

the fact that even a being that was closer to souls and spirits can't detect him then that pretty much explain that his stealth is too cracked for the sorrow

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yaya is perfectly fine, phone calling his friend though something feels off about it imo, this probably warrants some opinions from others.

Regardless. though atm don't see Sorrow being able to sense Endou, Abysslord on top of that is probably too much, instantly 5x stronger, thousands upon thousands of clones which can all use durability ignoring blackhole at the same time, while also getting stronger quick enough that he becomes at least 6-B during the course of a fight.

Sheer numbers and hax, basically, to overwhelm Sorrow.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Yaya is perfectly fine, phone calling his friend though something feels off about it imo, this probably warrants some opinions from others.

Regardless. though atm don't see Sorrow being able to sense Endou, Abysslord on top of that is probably too much, instantly 5x stronger, thousands upon thousands of clones which can all use durability ignoring blackhole at the same time, while also getting stronger quick enough that he becomes at least 6-B during the course of a fight.

Sheer numbers and hax, basically, to overwhelm Sorrow.

I think of the Hajime bit similar to what Myuu do, though in her cases that's one of her first options while Kousuke himself use that as last option unless needed, but the opinions of others in the matter would probably be good. The Hidzuki point however is absolutely valid as you said.

I think is pretty clear that Kousuke surpass him in all regards, the only problem is the argument that The Sorrow will see the future and instantly use bfr, but that have the problems that it would need to detect and remeber him, and can additionally be countered by Hidzuki who he also should be unable to detect.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Wouldn't compare Myuu to Kousuke, Myuu is like a Pokemon Trainer, with their being analogies between her and Nurarihyon, the leader of Parade of 100 Demons, she goes around always getting new friends, who become completely loyal to her, even taking control of the apparitions of onmyouji's.

Her friends helping her is basically part of her powers, while Endou on the other hand, is just good friends with Hajime, who he can contact if he gets into trouble. Though yea this topic should probably go elsewhere.

 

[Armorchompy]

Phone calling your friend is definitely outside help, rest seems fine I guess. That said the power should definitely not be listed as stealth mastery but perception manip

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

So, Kousuke take his place right?

 

[Noneless21]

It seems so