Kirito vs Soul King

[LordWhis]

4A versions. SBA.

Kirito:

Soul King:

Incon:

Who wins this ?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Soul Crush

 

[Jinsye]

gg

 

[Schnee_One]

Soul Crush

GG

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Freeze GG got crushed...

 

[Planck69]

SOUL CRUSH!.......gg.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

You should have known how this was gonna end just by looking at the profiles.

 

[M11UTD]

soul crush gg

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Soul crush GG

 

[Scottycj256]

Soul Crush ******* GG

 

[Purgy]

Soul Crush gg

Also I think this was done before

 

[Ionliosite]

GG hsurC luoS

 

[PhantomØ4]

Does the fact that SAO character's "souls" are quantum fields (or something along those lines, I just read a few volumes) not grant them any resistance to soul manipulation? That's weird.

 

[Purgy]

Does the fact that SAO character's "souls" are quantum fields (or something along those lines, I just read a few volumes) not grant them any resistance to soul manipulation? That's weird.

I have no idea what that means to be honest.

 

[PhantomØ4]

It just means that the verse's "souls" are not conventional.

 

[Purgy]

It just means that the verse's "souls" are not conventional.

Souls across verses generally aren't, they're not granted immunity to soul based abilities simply because they differ in one way or another, otherwise soul based abilities would only really work in the verse they come from.

 

[Ionliosite]

No, SAO characters don't have resistance to soul manip.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Ok, got it. What about their game/simulation avatars? Are they considered to be suseptible to soul manipulation?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Soul Crush gg

Also I think this was done before

I think it was Krito vs Yhwach

 

[CursedGentleman]

Ok, got it. What about their game/simulation avatars? Are they considered to be suseptible to soul manipulation?

This.

Everyone knows Gamers don't have souls

 

[Ionliosite]

Ok, got it. What about their game/simulation avatars? Are they considered to be suseptible to soul manipulation?

Of course they are, why wouldn't they? They explicity have souls on Alicization.

 

[YungManzi]

Some people are granted some form of resistance or even flat out unequalized if the souls are not equal enough.

Hell, it's the reason why Samurai in Samurai 8 have soul resistance. Their souls are completely different from something like a bleach soul.

Same reason why the slime peeps argue you can't mind hax their characters without soul manipulation because their minds are their souls (Or reside inside of them or something like that).

Or characters who are machines and their minds are just a bunch of algorithms, they're still technically minds, but they're completely different from standard mind control. Therefore the person with mind hax needs feats of effecting machines with their mind hax.

 

[YungManzi]

And listen @lon

Just because it's not on the profile doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The machine example earlier being a prime example (Since many of them don't have the standard abilities listed that comes with not being a living thing)

 

[Purgy]

Some people are granted some form of resistance or even flat out unequalized if the souls are not equal enough.
Hell, it's the reason why Samurai in Samurai 8 have soul resistance. Their souls are completely different from something like a bleach soul.

Same reason why the slime peeps argue you can't mind hax their characters without soul manipulation because their minds are their souls (Or reside inside of them or something like that).

Or characters who are machines and their minds are just a bunch of algorithms, they're still technically minds, but they're completely different from standard mind control. Therefore the person with mind hax needs feats of effecting machines with their mind hax.

Don't know about Samurai 8 so can't comment on that but I've never seen this brought up, nor is it mentioned on the Soul Manipulation page or anywhere else. As I said earlier, the way souls function across fictional universes varies quite a lot, if we only allowed it to affect verses with similar soul functions then you might aswell just restrict soul based abilities to their respective verse which is not only unfair but also illogical since the same argument could be made to restrict a lot of abilities like that.

 

[YungManzi]

No. You're missing the point.

I'm not saying that the souls have to be exactly the same in order for equalization to happen. Please re-read my mind hax analogy. That obviously wasn't what I was getting at.


Larger Issue: Why the hell should you be able to soul manip someone who's soul is nowhere near equivalent to your verse's soul?

Like in a verse where souls are just someone's consciousness/thoughts and are basically synonymous with their minds.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Messing with the souls in SAO is basically Quantum Manipulation, I think you're thinking too much in specifics between verses because nornally they're not all that different unless you get into specifics.

 

[YungManzi]

Well, normally they're not too different.

But in some cases they are, and we have to account for those cases.

Just like we account for characters not having souls, we also have to account for characters' souls being nowhere near traditional; like the aforementioned Samurai 8 peeps.

 

[Purgy]

No. You're missing the point.
I'm not saying that the souls have to be exactly the same in order for equalization to happen. Please re-read my mind hax analogy. That obviously wasn't what I was getting at.


Larger Issue: Why the hell should you be able to soul manip someone who's soul is nowhere near equivalent to your verse's soul?

Like in a verse where souls are just someone's consciousness/thoughts and are basically synonymous with their minds.

I never said you said that... Infact I literally said "similar", not exact. Calm down and carefully read what I'm writing.

Can you link me to an official thread that actually states if souls function in different ways then they're automatically immune to soul based attacks? It's ludicrous and where do you draw the line in terms of difference.

 

[Purgy]

Not having a soul and having a soul that behaves differently aren't the same, no idea why you're comparing the two scenarios.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Why are you using "behave" and "function" anyways? This is more about the fundamental nature of them, their structure, what they're made of. Not what they do.

 

[YungManzi]

"As I said earlier, the way souls function across fictional universes varies quite a lot, if we only allowed it to affect verses with similar soul functions then you might aswell just restrict soul based abilities to their respective verse which is not only unfair but also illogical since the same argument could be made to restrict a lot of abilities like that."

Since you want to focus on one word I said, I'll re quote myself and change it for you.

"I'm not saying that the souls have to be similar in order for equalization to happen."

Kek. But really they do. The basic requirement for equalizing two abilities is for them to be semi-similar. Completely different powers aren't equalized.

The reason why Haki is not equal to chakra.

 

[Purgy]

Why are you using "behave" and "function" anyways? This is more about the fundamental nature of them, their structure, what they're made of. Not what they do.

It really doesn't matter. Unless there's a forum rule or something saying what you're suggesting is correct, then that's not how things are debated here.

 

[YungManzi]

Why the heck would there need to be a rule stating such?

It's already been established by accepted profiles here, and it's honestly a pretty uncontroversial point.

You're the first person I've seen even argue against it.

 

[Purgy]

Why the heck would there need to be a rule stating such?
It's already been established by accepted profiles here, and it's honestly a pretty uncontroversial point.

You're the first person I've seen even argue against it.

There needs to be a rule or official clarification otherwise it's just an opinion. I've never seen this argument made and I'm 99% this is the 2nd or 3rd SK vs Kirito thread.

 

[YungManzi]

@Monster

What he's arguing for contradicts Ayaka's resistances.

 

[PhantomØ4]

I didn't know Kirito was the only character with unconventional reistences. ƒñö YungMazi has been been giving examples of other series anyways, lol.

if there's not a rule I can't possibly be correct? What kind of logic is that? That's brings as much value to the conversation as me saying that there's not a rule about equalization of souls you can't debate like that for it. AKA, nothing.

@YungManzi Even then the only thing she would lose resistance to is Mind Manipulation and her mind is in another dimension

 

[Purgy]

if there's not a rule I can't possibly be correct? What kind of logic is that? That's brings as much value to the conversation as me saying that there's not a rule about equalization of souls you can't debate like that for it. AKA, nothing.

That's not what I said though is it? Poor strawman honestly, I've seen much better. We generally use things that are officially accepted here to debate and not our opinions, but that isn't to say your opinion can't be right, but as an example, I can't just go into a debate claiming Goku is 11D and tier 1 because that goes against his profile and what is accepted.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Wording was much better this time. I understand what you are attempting to convey better now, perhaps I won't strawman this time.

This is a case by case thing, there is nothing that is "accepted" as a rule written somewhere as you want here for either side of our argument as far as I am aware. Unlike with your analogy which makes use of something set in stone by the community and someone trying to use their idea which contradicts it in a vs thread so, false analogy. I can't say if I've seen better or not, I don't tend to mind fallacies much beyond knowing they're incorrect.

 

[Purgy]

Wording was much better this time. I understand what you are attempting to convey better now, perhaps I won't strawman this time.
This is a case by case thing, there is nothing that is "accepted" as a rule written somewhere as you want here for either side of our argument as far as I am aware. Unlike with your analogy which makes use of something set in stone by the community and someone trying to use their idea which contradicts it in a vs thread so, false analogy.

Glad you understood this time.

There is something that needs to be set in stone, and thats Kirito having sufficient Soul Resistance to withstand Soul Crush, which to my knowledge he doesn't have.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Perhaps because his soul resistance would be unconventional for a reason. Idk maybe Soul crush crushes Quantum Fields now.