Kirby Cosmology Upgrade Part 2

[Firestorm808]

It's standard procedure to show where all your scans and links come from.

The first paragraph under the Low 1-C section has several game scans without referencing its source.

"First, let's go over the statements that USED to hold the most importance before being replaced by the more accurate Japanese statements, as they help contextualize everything else and serve as decent supporting evidence. In the English localizations, Another Dimension's road was stated to be extra-dimensional and beyond the space-time continuum, along with being part of an Extra Dimension (which is a real life term to describe qualitatively higher dimensions) beyond space and time. It's also referred to as another world beyond time and dimensions, in most fan translations of this Tweet."

The now labeled Kirby's Return To Dreamland game video is private so no one could see it.

When I do the cross-examinations, I make sure that all the information is sourced. That is not an unreasonable request.

In any case, I'll have to do it myself with my evaluation later today.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

The first paragraph of the blog is basically obselete anyway, and the video isn't private for me. Sorry for wasting time tho

 

[Firestorm808]

I believe I have all the sources re-organized. I'll be breaking up my conclusions into 2 parts. One regarding the games alone and another regarding the social media statements.

• 2008 | Kirby Super Star Ultra
  • Galacta Knight's pause screen
    • This legend was sealed away long ago because of his power. He defies time to challenge you!
• 2011 | Kirby's Return to Dreamland
  • Galacta Knight's pause screen description
    • The most powerful warrior in the galaxy who somehow drifted into this universe from another dimension. What a dream battle!
  • Clip needed - When Another Dimension was consumed by dimensional walls, they seemingly traveled to the past
  • ヤッタヨ、カービィ！ ボクの船に、 右ウィングがモドッタヨ！ パーツがそろって 船が トベルようになったら、 キミをボクの こきょうに つれていってアゲルヨォ。 ボクの こきょうは、ハルかとおく… コノ星と つながっている、 異空間ロードを ぬけた さきにあるンダ。 すっごく とおくにアルケド コノ船が カンセイしたら、 ひとっとびダヨ。 だから、 たのしみにしてテネッ。
    • "You did it, Kirby! On my ship, the right wing is back! When all the parts are equipped and the ship is ready to fly, I’ll take us to my homeland. My homeland is far away… It’s just past another dimension’s road that connects with this star. It’s a long way away, but when this ship is completed, it’s a jump away. So, look forward to it."
  • • Not only can the universes Kirby and co previously visited be seen inside of AD, but said universes are portrayed as transparent, fading pictures. As if they were of a lower level of existence or 2D by comparison. All throughout this level, you can see the pictures I'm talking about in the background. The pictures are places located on Pop Star and Halcandra, which are in different universes.
• 2016 | Kirby: Planet Robobot
  • English Scans
    • Star Dream Dialogue | GIF
      • "You are mighty indeed. Now for the final test... This was prohibited by the previous admin... Preparing to boot the Space-Time Transport program..."
      • "Let us bring back a legendary swordsman from a forgotten time. He may end up destroying a nearby planet or two, but such is life. The benefits of this final battle outweigh the collateral damage. Prepare yourself..."
      • "Executing Space-Time Transport... Extra-dimensional road... Booting... 3... 2... 1... ...BEGIN!"
    • Galacta Knight's Pause Screen
      • This ancient swordsman is feared for his immense power. He is not a clone. He was awakened and brought here via an extra-dimensional road beyond the space-time continuum.
    • Holo-Doomers
      • A hologram of monsters nested in an extra dimension. The original Doomers were red and blue. They love to eat Energy Spheres, which contain ancient technology.
    • Holo-Doomers
      • These monsters were created by Susie entering data she acquired from her travels. Where and when did she encounter the original monsters from the extra dimension? Who knows?
  • Japanese Scans
    • Galacta Knight's pause screen
      • "その力ゆえ おそれらてきた、全てを ほろぼし かねない 古の剣士。クローンではなく、未知なる 異空間ロードから 時空をこえ よびさまされた。 様ざまな時代で ふういん されてきた きろくが 残るが、しょうめつ させることは できていない"
      • "An ancient swordsman who can destroy everything due to his strength. Not a clone, he was awakened from an unknown another dimensional road beyond space-time. Records remain that he has been sealed in various eras, but he has never been terminated."
• 2017 | Team Kirby Clash Deluxe
  • Greater Doomer like the Holo-Doomers travels to the Dream Kingdom
• 2018 | Kirby: Star Allies
  • 復仇する懺党 三魔官シスターズ | VS三魔官シスターズ 力を合わせ 強大な三叉となり 最終決戦をいどむ三廃官! 主をおって 彼女らは、様々な次元へ通じる 異界の果て へと たどり着く。闇の神にもすがるほどの 思いは一つ。 あのころの 主に また 会いたい と、かなわぬ きせきを 願っている。信じるんだ…ひとすじの希望を、大団円を!!
  • Revenge-Seeking Repenters Three Mage-General Sisters - VS The Three Mage-General Sisters
    Three abandoned generals who joined forces to become a powerful trident and engage in the final battle! Following their Lord, they reached the end of another world, which leads to a variety of dimensions. They have only one desire, to the point where they’ve even implored the Dark God. They pray for an impossible miracle, to once again see their Lord from those days. Believe...in a ray of hope, a happy ending/the grand finale!!
  • Heroes in Another Dimension Pause
    • アナザーディメンションヒーローズ 続く ハイネスの祈りの えいきょうで、様ざまな次元へ 通じる、異空間の 穴が開かれた。そして この次元では キミは なんと、夢のフレンズにも なれるのだ！だが、 待ちうけるは じょうしきを くつがえす 強さのボスたち。 異空をかけてハートを集め、希望の光を…生むのだっ !
    • Through the influence of Hyness’s continued prayers, a hole in Another Dimension was opened, leading to a variety of dimensions. And in these dimensions, you can familiarize yourself with the Dream Friends! However, strong bosses beyond belief are waiting. Gather hearts under another sky, and the light of hope... create it!
      • While it was worded differently in the tutorial, this description uses the term 異空間の 穴 ikuukan no ana (Or as the game claims, anazādimenshon no ana) dimensional rifts from RtDL, and it leads to various 次元 jigen dimensions. It also once again uses the term 異空 ikuu another sky which first appeared in the Japanese name for the music track Distant Traveler.
• Star Allies Art Book
• 2019 | Super Kirby Clash
  • Greater Doomer appears from a portal to the Dream Kingdom.
• Miiverse
  • 2014 | Behind the Scenes
    • "彼はカービィWiiのクライマックスに消息不明となりますが、こうしてアトラクションの中で元気な姿を見るに、時空を越えるあの異空間で迷いながらも、ひょっこりどこかの出口から脱出できたのでしょうか。カービィ達が元の世界に帰って来たあの後に、マホロアもまた世界を旅しながら、本作のような攻略しがいのあるユニークなテーマパークを、様々な世界で作っているのかもしれませんね。"
    • "Magolor’s whereabouts are uncertain after Kirby’s Return to Dream Land, but he seems pretty lively here. After roaming around the dimension beyond space and time, he might’ve found an exit. When Kirby and his friends returned home, maybe Magolor traveled around building theme parks in different worlds."
  • 2015 | Behind the Scenes
    • "Since Kirby's Return to Dream Land, Magolor has gained a talent for constructing theme parks and attractions. The motif of Dedede's Drum Dash Deluxe is also a theme park, so this was actually a project Magolor worked on! It makes sense to feature him as a guest character. "Magolor's whereabouts are uncertain after Kirby's Return to Dream Land, but he seems pretty lively here. After roaming around the dimension beyond space and time, he might've found an exit. When Kirby and his friends returned home, maybe Magolor traveled around building theme parks in different worlds.
  • 2016 | Behind the Scenes | Two
    • 「メタナイトでゴー　リターンズ」といえば、クリスタルに封印されたギャラクティックナイトが、「真　かちぬきボスバトル」では封印を破って再登場しましたよね。この2つのモードの物語には、つながりがあるのですか？
    • 「真　かちぬきボスバトル」も「if」という設定なので、全てがつながっているわけではありません。
      また、ギャラクティックナイトの出現時に開く異空間ロードは時空を超えた存在のため、時系列で並べるのは難しいんです。ですが、過去3作でのギャラクティックナイトの出現時の場面を並べて推測すると、ロマンが広がると思いますよ。
    • While we're on the topic of Meta Knightmare Returns, Galacta Knight was supposed to be sealed away in a crystal, but he broke that seal and showed up again in The True Arena. Are Meta Knightmare Returns and The True Arena connected at all in relation to the story?
    • The True Arena is like another “what if” scenario, so you can’t really consider everything to be connected. Furthermore, the extra-dimensional road that opens up when Galacta Knight appears transcends space-time, so it’s difficult to give it a concrete place in the timeline. But if you consider the stages in which Galacta Knight appeared in the past three games, I think that will give you some food for thought.
• Twitter
  • 2018 |
    • Raw: ジャマハローア。 これは、未だ全てを読み解けぬ とある書物に記されていたのだが、 もしかすると神のおられる器は、別の世界から ある道を通って来られたものかもしれぬと…。 その道のある空間はかつて、こう呼ばれていた。 「アナザーディメンション」と。 #星のカービィスターアライズ
    • Translations
      • 1 "Bonjam. This has not been read completely, although it was written in a certain book, perhaps the descended vessel of God may have come from another world through a certain road… The dimension with that road was once called this: “Another Dimension”. "
      • 2 "Bonjam. Although it is written in a certain book that has yet to be fully deciphered, we’ve come to learn that perhaps the vessel in which God resides may have arrived travelling through a certain road through different dimensions… The space which held that road was once known as this: “Another Dimension”."
      • 3 "Jamaharoa. This is still unfamiliar to us, although it was written in a certain book. It seems that the vessel of Our Lord may have come through a space path from another world... That space path has been called... 'Another Dimension'."
  • 2018 |
    • Raw: ジャマハローア！！ すっごく強いパワーが集まると、別次元の なんていったかしら…そうそう！イクウカンに通じる「穴」が 開かれるって、ハイネス様が言ってたわよ！ 時も次元も超えて、別の世界に通じちゃうから キケンなんですよぉ～、って言ってたわ！！ #星のカービィスターアライズ
    • Translations
      • 1 "Bonjam! When very strong power gathers, a hole leading to... hmm. What was it that he said? Yes, yes! Lord Hyness said that a hole leading to Another Dimension will be opened! He said it's dangerous because it leads to another world which exceeds time and dimensions!"
        • "時間" is "time", and more notably, 次元 (jigen) is "dimensions".
        • "超えて" is what was translated into "which exceeds".
      • 2 "Bonjam! When gathering immensely potent power, what was that about other dimensions… right, right! Hyness-sama said that a hole will be opened leading to Ikuukan! He said, “What’s dangerous about travelling in different worlds, crossing both time and dimensions~”!!
        • For some reason, Flamberge says Ikuukan (Another Dimension) in Katakana イクウカン. 異空間 is the term read as ikuukan, however, while previous games annotate it regularly as ikuukan, throughout Star Allies, the player is told to read it as アナザーディメンション anaza dimenshon. The reading ikuukan does appear once in the Japanese name of Magolor’s Dimensional Vanish.
      • 3 "Jamaharoa!! If a bunch of power gathers, another dimension.... What did he say... Oh, yeah! Hyness said a 'hole' leading to another dimension has opened! Through time and space, we can communicate with another world... That's kiiind of dangerous, I think!!"
  • 2018 |
    • Raw: ジャマハローア…。 この広い銀河には、この次元とは違う、 別次元へと繋がる「穴」があるとか…。 ワタクシも一度、その話を聞いた事がありますが… そんなもの、本当にあるのかしら…？
    • Translations
      • 1 "Bonjam... In this vast galaxy, there is a ‘hole’ that leads to different dimensions unlike this dimension. I, too, once heard rumors of its existence… Could there really be such a thing…?"
  • 2021 |
    • "Have you ever seen the 'Time Realm Grand Slash", that super powerful attack used by Aeon Hero (Galacta Knight)? It's a move that cuts through dimensions, attacking space itself, but apparently you can also sometimes see a huge purple heart in it!" (1/3)
    • "I bet there's lots of stuff there in the space between dimensions..." (2/3)
    • Aeon Hero's move mentioned here doesn't have an official English name as far as I know, so I just translated it literally. It does sound a bit akward translated literally like that, so an official name would probably adapt it differently. (3/3)

 

[Firestorm808]

Based on the games alone, Another Dimension is a place with roads connecting other dimensions/universes. While inside Another Dimension, we can see transparent, fading images from other universes, but not much context is given regarding that. Star Dream's Space-Time Transport program uses the Extra-dimensional road to summon Galacta Knight from outside the current timeline. It seems that "Another Dimension" and "Extra Dimension" are used synonymously in the bios. Greater Doomer like the Holo-Doomers can travel Dream Kingdom Realm.

From the games, I can't really say there is support for Another Dimension being greater in size than the other Timelines/realms. The games seem to make it a plane connecting to all the other timelines/realms. I would say that portrayal in the games and narrative have priority over translation differences.

In any case, I'll go over the social media posts when available and see if they have a grounding in the games.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for helping out, Firestorm808.

Can somebody list all of the other staff members who have commented here, so they can take a look at Firestorm808's schematic evaluations above?

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Based on the games alone, Another Dimension is a place with roads connecting other dimensions/universes. While inside Another Dimension, we can see transparent, fading images from other universes, but not much context is given regarding that.

We already have context that implies AD contains universes (as already agreed upon even by Effi), or at least that it's greater in size than them. It explicitly contains the roads that connect universes together, including "distant" ones, as established in TKC. If those pictures aren't meant to portray those universes, then what are they for? The only other thing I can think of is portals and that's insanely unlikely due to how AD's portals are consistently portrayed as star shaped rifts that look NOTHING like this. My conclusion is the best educated guess.

Star Dream's Space-Time Transport program uses the Extra-dimensional road to summon Galacta Knight from outside the current timeline. It seems that "Another Dimension" and "Extra Dimension" are used synonymously in the bios. Greater Doomer like the Holo-Doomers can travel Dream Kingdom Realm.

That's about right, but "extra dimension" turned out to be a mistranslation, like I said in the blog. And Holo-Doomers are just holograms of Sphere Doomers, so they don't actually inter-dimensionally travel like the real deal. Very minor detail.

From the games, I can't really say there is support for Another Dimension being greater in size than the other Timelines/realms. The games seem to make it a plane connecting to all the other timelines/realms. I would say that portrayal in the games and narrative have priority over translation differences.

Do direct visual showings take priority over statements? I don't think they do, and in this case, the Japanese statements are the only ones that matter. Translation differences are indeed irrelevant. What matters is that the translation of the initial statement is an accurate one to begin with.

In any case, I'll go over the social media posts when available and see if they have a grounding in the games.

They don't contradict any of the in-game info if that's what you're wondering. They just expand upon it.

 

[Firestorm808]

We already have context that implies AD contains universes (as already agreed upon even by Effi), or at least that it's greater in size than them. It explicitly contains the roads that connect universes together, including "distant" ones, as established in TKC. If those pictures aren't meant to portray those universes, then what are they for? The only other thing I can think of is portals and that's insanely unlikely due to how AD's portals are consistently portrayed as star shaped rifts that look NOTHING like this. My conclusion is the best educated guess.

This information was not elaborated on or explained in the blog provided. Please do so. We cannot assume what the images mean without any grounding.

Do direct visual showings take priority over statements? I don't think they do, and in this case, the Japanese statements are the only ones that matter. Translation differences are indeed irrelevant. What matters is that the translation of the initial statement is an accurate one to begin with.

When I refer to "statements" in the previous post, I mean in-game statements. For example, the use of extra-dimensional has little use for a Low 1-C rating without supporting evidence regarding an increase in size, scale, etc. In common use, extra-dimensional simply means "Originating outside the known physical reality of the universe." This doesn't automatically mean being from a "higher" reality.

What does extradimensional mean?

Definition of extradimensional in the Definitions.net dictionary. Meaning of extradimensional. What does extradimensional mean? Information and translations of extradimensional in the most comprehensive dictionary definitions resource on the web.

www.definitions.net

 

[Antvasima]

When I refer to "statements" in the previous post, I mean in-game statements. For example, the use of extra-dimensional has little use for a Low 1-C rating without supporting evidence regarding an increase in size, scale, etc. In common use, extra-dimensional simply means "Originating outside the known physical reality of the universe." This doesn't automatically mean being from a "higher" reality.

What does extradimensional mean?

Definition of extradimensional in the Definitions.net dictionary. Meaning of extradimensional. What does extradimensional mean? Information and translations of extradimensional in the most comprehensive dictionary definitions resource on the web.

www.definitions.net

This is correct, yes. Thanks again for helping out.

 

[Arceus0x]

This information was not elaborated on or explained in the blog provided. Please do so. We cannot assume what the images mean without any grounding.

When I refer to "statements" in the previous post, I mean in-game statements. For example, the use of extra-dimensional has little use for a Low 1-C rating without supporting evidence regarding an increase in size, scale, etc. In common use, extra-dimensional simply means "Originating outside the known physical reality of the universe." This doesn't automatically mean being from a "higher" reality.

What does extradimensional mean?

Definition of extradimensional in the Definitions.net dictionary. Meaning of extradimensional. What does extradimensional mean? Information and translations of extradimensional in the most comprehensive dictionary definitions resource on the web.

www.definitions.net

So while i wait for pepto to respond, I'd like to ask, do you think it at least proves that AD is 4-dimensional?

 

[Firestorm808]

So while i wait for pepto to respond, I'd like to ask, do you think it at least proves that AD is 4-dimensional?

To clarify, you ask if Another Dimension is a Tier 2 Structure?

 

[Arceus0x]

To clarify, you ask if Another Dimension is a Tier 2 Structure?

yeah in a way, like if AD by itself is 4-D

 

[Firestorm808]

I would have to verify the requirements to qualify as one, but AD has roads that can connect to another timeline's past. Maybe?

 

[Arceus0x]

I would have to verify the requirements to qualify as one, but AD has roads that can connect to another timeline's past. Maybe?

not only past but future too

 

[Firestorm808]

Regarding the Twitter and Miiverse statements, there still isn't any concrete information to say that Another Dimension is larger to justify the Low 1-C use of the vocabulary. To exceed, be beyond, or be extra-dimensional can still mean just being outside the timeline without further context.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out here, Firestorm808. So what do you think should be done here?

 

[Arceus0x]

Thank you for helping out here, Firestorm808. So what do you think should be done here?

I think we should wait for pepto at least for a bit before closing this down since he might have something to say

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Arceus0x]

Okay.

last he responded was on friday so i think we should wait for like 2-3 days and just close this if he doesn't return. If he wants to re-open it later he can just message a mod after all.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. It depends on what the other staff members here think that we should do though.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

This information was not elaborated on or explained in the blog provided. Please do so. We cannot assume what the images mean without any grounding.

Another Dimension contains the roads through which inter-dimensional time travel is achieved, as seen in these two statements:

• 1 "Bonjam. This has not been read completely, although it was written in a certain book, perhaps the descended vessel of God may have come from another world through a certain road… The dimension with that road was once called this: “Another Dimension”. "
• 2 "Bonjam. Although it is written in a certain book that has yet to be fully deciphered, we’ve come to learn that perhaps the vessel in which God resides may have arrived travelling through a certain road through different dimensions… The space which held that road was once known as this: “Another Dimension”.

and we know the road connects to multiple universes, as we've seen from every time it's been used, including one which is explicitly specified to be distant relative to the rest of the cosmology. This means that it would be crazy to assume that AD somehow doesn't contain the universes themselves, when it contains the links that chain them together. Now that we know AD contains universes, that the flat pictures inside of it are locations inside those universes, and that said pictures aren't portals, I'll ask again: What are they if not entire universes depicted as 2D projections (from AD's perspective)?

When I refer to "statements" in the previous post, I mean in-game statements. For example, the use of extra-dimensional has little use for a Low 1-C rating without supporting evidence regarding an increase in size, scale, etc. In common use, extra-dimensional simply means "Originating outside the known physical reality of the universe." This doesn't automatically mean being from a "higher" reality.

It's not "extra dimensional (adjective)", it's "extra dimension (noun)". Not that it matters though, since it turned out to be a mistranslation. We went over this in the first thread and I was hoping we would be done. This isn't relevant anymore, and it never should have been.

Regarding the Twitter and Miiverse statements, there still isn't any concrete information to say that Another Dimension is larger to justify the Low 1-C use of the vocabulary. To exceed, be beyond, or be extra-dimensional can still mean just being outside the timeline without further context.

The most specifically accurate translation of the Twitter statement in the OP says a different story. Again, if you don't believe me, you can read the sources I've linked in earlier posts, and I can even refer you to my translator. Unless you're simply saying the statement is worthless unless the games themselves say the same thing that it does. The Twitter account may be a tertiary source, but it's still canon, and the info we got from it isn't contradicted by the games in the slightest.

To this day, I'm still confused as to what more is needed here. We have an explicit mention of dimensional superiority along with a pre-established relationship of superiority to space and time, which is backed up by what we see and what we're told in the games. The fact that universes are portrayed as flat and transparent from AD's perspective is just icing on the cake.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

So while i wait for pepto to respond, I'd like to ask, do you think it at least proves that AD is 4-dimensional?

That's the absolute bare minimum. I even asked Elizhaa on his message wall a while back if AD would at least be a 4D space, and he said yes.

Regarding the Twitter and Miiverse statements, there still isn't any concrete information to say that Another Dimension is larger to justify the Low 1-C use of the vocabulary. To exceed, be beyond, or be extra-dimensional can still mean just being outside the timeline without further context.

What about being superior? What about the fact that these are mathematical dimensions? That's what this is about when you translate the Japanese statements most accurately. It doesn't get more blatant than that.

 

[Firestorm808]

and we know the road connects to multiple universes, as we've seen from every time it's been used, including one which is explicitly specified to be distant relative to the rest of the cosmology. This means that it would be crazy to assume that AD somehow doesn't contain the universes themselves, when it contains the links that chain them together. Now that we know AD contains universes, that the flat pictures inside of it are locations inside those universes, and that said pictures aren't portals, I'll ask again: What are they if not entire universes depicted as 2D projections (from AD's perspective)?

I don't follow your reasoning. How does AD containing the roads to other universes equate to AD containing universes? You are assuming that images of other universes equate to them being in AD. Couldn't the images just be a depiction of where a road will lead to going outside of the AD? Think of AD as a train station with multiple tracks and signs depicting where each rail goes.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out here, Firestorm808. It is very appreciated.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

I don't follow your reasoning. How does AD containing the roads to other universes equate to AD containing universes? You are assuming that images of other universes equate to them being in AD. Couldn't the images just be a depiction of where a road will lead to going outside of the AD? Think of AD as a train station with multiple tracks and signs depicting where each rail goes.

I can draw a map of the cosmology if it helps better illustrate the point I'm about to make, but first, let me ask you something just to be sure we're not wasting time on something actually deemed trivial.
If I can prove that those pictures being representations of universes is the most reasonable assumption, would you agree with the upgrade?

 

[Firestorm808]

What have the other staff said on the assumption regarding these images?

 

[Mephistus]

(There was even a link to a Wiki page that shows the game files of the images in the background, but it strangely seems to be gone, unless it's somewhere else in the blog).

It wasn't in there, so just in case here it is: link 1 or link 2

"Transparent images of the past levels can be seen in the background of Another Dimension in Kirby's Return to Dream Land. The ones found in the first segment of the level are harder to see, but the ones that appear during the Lor & Magolor battle are more visible."

 

[Firestorm808]

@Antvasima

What are your thoughts on the interpretation of these images in the other dimension?

 

[Antvasima]

Can you or/and somebody else here explain what I need to try to evaluate here in a relatively easy to understand manner please?

 

[Peptocoptr27]

What have the other staff said on the assumption regarding these images?

I'm not asking other staff. I'm asking you. I've provided all the information there is on this topic, so it's up to you to decide. Effi and E12 are free to come back whenever to present their counter-arguments whether you decide to agree or not.

Can you or/and somebody else here explain what I need to try to evaluate here in a relatively easy to understand manner please?

I wrote it all down with everything linked and sourced but my computer ******* deleted it as I was about to finish. I'm pissed off so I'll do it tomorrow.

 

[Firestorm808]

If I can prove that those pictures being representations of universes is the most reasonable assumption, would you agree with the upgrade?

I'm not asking other staff. I'm asking you. I've provided all the information there is on this topic, so it's up to you to decide. Effi and E12 are free to come back whenever to present their counter-arguments whether you decide to agree or not.

I have already given my answer regarding using this assumption.

I don't follow your reasoning. How does AD containing the roads to other universes equate to AD containing universes? You are assuming that images of other universes equate to them being in AD. Couldn't the images just be a depiction of where a road will lead to going outside of the AD? Think of AD as a train station with multiple tracks and signs depicting where each rail goes.

From what I have read, there isn't enough justification for saying that entire timelines exist inside another dimension.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out, Firestorm808.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

I have already given my answer regarding using this assumption.

From what I have read, there isn't enough justification for saying that entire timelines exist inside another dimension.

I know, but if I CAN prove it's the most reasonable conclusion, would you agree with the upgrade?

 

[Firestorm808]

I can't guarantee that I would agree since there are other factors to consider, but it would give more credence to your proposal, yes.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Can you or/and somebody else here explain what I need to try to evaluate here in a relatively easy to understand manner please?

In the final level of Kirby's Return To Dreamland that takes place in AD, you can see flat, fading pictures of places Kirby and co. visited previously in the game through dimensional rifts. Those places are all located in different universes. That's exactly where Kirby's 2-C ranking comes from, so I won't waste time explaining why that's a fact. The current cosmology blog expands upon that by saying that when Kirby is flying past those pictures in Another Dimension, he's in fact most likely passing by alternative versions of Pop Star and Halcandra (planets which, again, are established to be in different universes). As such, we can easily infer that in this level, Kirby and co. are flying by entire universes, and that said universes are perceived as seemingly 2D transparent projections compared to the higher dimensional space of AD. Any other educated guess we can try to make is pretty non-sensical and/or contradicted by previous information.
I thought that maybe those pictures could just be portals leading to those universes rather than the universes themselves, but we know for a fact that portals leading to and from AD don't look like that. In Return To Dreamland, they're always star shaped rifts, and this is pretty consistent with the games that came after.
Firestorm came up with this theory instead:

Couldn't the images just be a depiction of where a road will lead to going outside of the AD? Think of AD as a train station with multiple tracks and signs depicting where each rail goes.

The problem is that we already know where the road will lead to. Magolor opened a portal to AD specifically to go to Kirby's planet from his own home world. Even if those pictures were meant to indicate directions to other universes, they would absolutely fail to do that in every conceivable way if we're really to take the train station analogy to its logical conclusion. Funnily enough, there's even a Kirby novel that calls AD "directionless", so the notion that there could be weird transparent floating signs in it that indicate directions to nearby universes never seems to have crossed anyone's mind before, even when writing official (albeit non-canon) Kirby novelizations of in-game events.

I can't guarantee that I would agree since there are other factors to consider, but it would give more credence to your proposal, yes.

Like what? This argument we're discussing is just the cherry on top of even more blatant and straight-forward evidence. It sucks to continue arguing my point when there's no limit to the number of times where you're allowed to say "It's not enough, we need more". For the last time, what more is needed specifically? By not telling me, you're allowing yourself to move the goal post as many times as you want, which is a pretty scummy tactic.

 

[Firestorm808]

Funnily enough, there's even a Kirby novel that calls AD "directionless", so the notion that there could be weird transparent floating signs in it that indicate directions to nearby universes never seems to have crossed anyone's mind before, even when writing official (albeit non-canon) Kirby novelizations of in-game events.

"Another Dimension - a strange, otherworldly space that existed in the space between separate dimensions. It did not operate like normal space, and an unusual energy pervaded it." - Tertiary canon novel

Being the space between universes doesn't really support it being qualitatively larger.

Eficiente:

• [Directionless] That's meaningless, any big or confusing place can be called that.
• In the MCU thanks to that awful Loki show the outside of the timeline (The energy line), and infinite timelines, is space with floating rocky islands. If someone were to manipulate space or rocks there as thicc as 1 moment in a timeline then that wouldn't be universal. The timelines there are the big complex structures, everything else around them is not.
  • Dr. Strange Multiverse of Madness has a place that's the space between universes, and it's just another reality of unknown size.
• In Gravity Falls the Nightmare Realm is a realm between dimensions, and it's pretty much another universe.
• In Kirby Another Dimension seems to be the space between dimensions, and it's a tunnel with many regular universes in it.

 

[Mephistus]

I dont think the images should look like that anyway if peering into another universe, we would or should see the full blown picture akin to a portal there into the dimension not just those ""cutout parts"" of the dimension(s) for those level sections. Its odd why thats happening.

 

[Arceus0x]

I dont think the images should look like that anyway if peering into another universe, we would or should see the full blown picture akin to a portal there into the dimension not just those ""cutout parts"" of the dimension(s) for those level sections. Its odd why thats happening.

I'd say not necessarily. GK's attack is a very special case

 

[CosmicWreck]

Spoiler: Long post.

Hm. Well, thank you for your hard work but use of certain terms (like "exceed" and "beyond") doesn't mean something follows our tiering system not to mention kanji translations are illusory supports since they don't really fix the crux of the issue.

That is, taking these statements at face value, although understandable doesn't really change anything. We've known for a long time that the Another dimension transcends and is beyond time and universes. Similar terminologies have been applied to time and dimensional travelers however and the Kirby franchise in particular does not challenge this use of terminology as it has always been used as a method of doing just that, traverse time and dimensions (or at least, from what I've seen as a casual gamer), not much else.

The only evidence I've seen given that seems to bring new information into light is an interpretation of the nature of the Another dimension based on the visual depictions of the universes which doesn't mean anything in and of itself as artistic license means it's perfectly natural for universes to be displayed as anything from other earths, papers, or even movie films. If no in game explanation was given I see no point in giving meaning to a visual aid that has no support in reality.

To summarize: hard disagree since the thread seems to be built on semantics which directly oppose the way the Another Dimension has been portrayed in the series, that is its transcendence has only ever been a description of the Another Dimension's ability to travel to other universes, and the only real evidence to otherwise is an interpretation of artistic license liberties of fading picture universes that have no basis in reality as there is no relevant explanation in verse.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

As you can probably tell, I have basically no time to respond on week days and it's exhausting to reply to the same things over and over again, so I'll try to get back to this this weekend

 

[Eseseso]

bump