Kick her a** 18!!! (CONCLUDED)

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Android 18 VS Zeena

Scenario: Android 18 and Krillin go about their day, when they encounter Zeena robbing a store. Krillin tries to stop her but she knocks him away. Zeena then proceed to insult Krillin and saying how a pathetic (in her words) man like him ended up with her. Android 18 becomes enraged by this and would not tolerate such behavior. Zeena laughs and challenges 18 for a fight

Basically, this is pretty much inspired from this scene in the Tournament of Power

Fight happens in West City

Speed is equalized

SBA otherwise (Both are 4-C)

Android 18: 3 (ShakeResounding, Knifeman29, LephyrTheRevanchist, Flashlight237)

Zeena:

Inconclusive:

 

[Da3ggman]

How does Android deal with Zeena's weird Gravitate/Technology Manip?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

How does Android deal with Zeena's weird Gravitate/Technology Manip?

Beause she's not a robot. She's a human enchanced by cellular cybernetics. Her mind is also still human so she'll not be mind haxed

 

[ShakeResounding]

Honestly (and thankfully), I'm probably gonna give this to 18.

18 is superior in AP/Dura, and that alone is pretty significant since they're physical fighters. On top of that, 18 has greater combat prowess, has a better mindset in combat, has infinite stamina compared to Zeena's finite amount to ensure attrition isn't an issue for her, and can fly to keep herself out of reach and bombard her with never-ending ki blasts if hand to hand combat somehow isn't in her favor. So after enough time, Zeena gets overwhelmed and squashed.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Counted

 

[Knifeman29]

18 fra

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Hm, I guess No.18 fra

 

[Flashlight237]

18 FRA, plus in-character Zeena cares more about her looks than Android 18, which I feel would be more detrimental on Zeena's end.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

18 FRA

 

[LaserPrecision]

Beause she's not a robot. She's a human enchanced by cellular cybernetics. Her mind is also still human so she'll not be mind haxed

Given this feels like Zeena's only good win-con, I feel I should question this a bit further. Are we sure she can't control the cybernetically enhanced? She's able to controls hordes of Zombot's which are organic people altered on the cellular level by cybernetics similar to Android 17 and 18. Android 18 describes what she went through as "mechanization", has a reactor built into her, and has coding/programming as described by Gero. So are we sure she can't control she can't control Android 18 at all? If not, exactly what win-cons does she have? Because it seems like she's easily outclassed otherwise.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Given this feels like Zeena's only good win-con, I feel I should question this a bit further. Are we sure she can't control the cybernetically enhanced? She's able to controls hordes of Zombot's which are organic people altered on the cellular level by cybernetics similar to Android 17 and 18. Android 18 describes what she went through as "mechanization", has a reactor built into her, and has coding/programming as described by Gero. So are we sure she can't control she can't control Android 18 at all? If not, exactly what win-cons does she have? Because it seems like she's easily outclassed otherwise.

No. The difference between her and the Zombots is that the Zombots aren't biological beings (anymore). Those that became fully infected completely turned into Robots and have nothing biological inside them

Meanwhile Android 18 is mostly human for the most part, and while she has coding, her brain and body still function like that of a human rather than a pure machine

Also, that's ignoring even the point that she won't even lead with the robot control because she'd have no idea 18 is a cyborg just from looking at her. For all Zeena would know she's just a regular human

 

[jojo123]

18 FRA

 

[LaserPrecision]

No. The difference between her and the Zombots is that the Zombots aren't biological beings (anymore). Those that became fully infected completely turned into Robots and have nothing biological inside them

But they are still biological. One of the links I pasted there have Eggman outright state they still have normal cells that are slowly deteriorating:

"My research found that as the metal virus mutates, it becomes unsustainable. Any infected heterotrophic eukaryote cells will eventually suffer a form of apoptosis. Autotrophic cells will endure slightly longer. But not by much."

That is very much several biological/organic components that are undergoing organic processes because of the Metal Virus. To say they're not biological at all is entirely dishonest to what's stated by Eggman.

Meanwhile Android 18 is mostly human for the most part, and while she has coding, her brain and body still function like that of a human rather than a pure machine

It doesn't matter if their coding/programming allows them to still function like a human with sentience. People like Gemerl with a "heart" (Soul), and a consciousness were still controlled by Zeena as well. With him eventually breaking out (Which should give him a limited resistance tbh):

Though even after breaking out of the mindhax, due to being mechanical she was still able to remotely control him (I don't think it was just TK since his eyes became red and the red strands stemming from her hand weren't only directed at his limbs, but also his head gem which also became red).

So yes, their technology manipulation allows them to control what is effectively cyborgs who are still partially organic, and override the programming/coding even if it's advanced enough to have the user develop a consciousness/soul.

Besides, in-universe they are considered to be too mechanical (as Androids/Robots) to be reverted "back to human"

So I think there's close to no reason to assume Zeena's technology manipulation wouldn't affect them.

Also, that's ignoring even the point that she won't even lead with the robot control because she'd have no idea 18 is a cyborg just from looking at her. For all Zeena would know she's just a regular human

That's fair. I wasn't arguing for her leading with it though. Just that I don't see why It wouldn't work. But the problem is, if we assume it doesn't work, then what win-cons does Zeena even have? She's kinda entirely outclassed by 18's greater mobility and strength. Wouldn't that be a stomp?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

That's fair. I wasn't arguing for her leading with it though. Just that I don't see why It wouldn't work. But the problem is, if we assume it doesn't work, then what win-cons does Zeena even have? She's kinda entirely outclassed by 18's greater mobility and strength. Wouldn't that be a stomp?

Not really. Android 18 AP advantage isn't enough to one shot, and Zeena have some skill of her own to battle 18, and of course, Zeena can try to control her if somehow she realizes that she's a cyborg, so I don't think it's a stomp

 

[LaserPrecision]

Not really. Android 18 AP advantage isn't enough to one shot, and Zeena have some skill of her own to battle 18, and of course, Zeena can try to control her if somehow she realizes that she's a cyborg, so I don't think it's a stomp

No no, I agree that if Zeena has the ability to control 18 that she has a win-con. My grievance was that you weren't even giving Zeena the benefit of the doubt that she could even control 18. If she didn't have THAT win-con, I don't think she has any. I also never claimed it was a one-shot gap. But having the advantage means Zeena doesn't really have a feasible win as she's essentially facing a far better version of herself in terms of versatility.

Do you concede on Zeena being able to control her though? If so, I feel that should be looked into.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

No no, I agree that if Zeena has the ability to control 18 that she has a win-con. My grievance was that you weren't even giving Zeena the benefit of the doubt that she could even control 18. If she didn't have THAT win-con, I don't think she has any. I also never claimed it was a one-shot gap. But having the advantage means Zeena doesn't really have a feasible win as she's essentially facing a far better version of herself in terms of versatility.

Do you concede on Zeena being able to control her though? If so, I feel that should be looked into.

Yeah I concede on that, but I did note that it's not something she'd start with due to lack of knowledge, so there's no reason to discount the votes

 

[LaserPrecision]

Yeah I concede on that, but I did note that it's not something she'd start with due to lack of knowledge, so there's no reason to discount the votes

I wasn't saying to discount the votes. I was just saying it's something that should be noted since I feel most of the people have voted haven't seen our debate or your concession on it. The reason a lot of people started voting is because of your comment about her tech manip not working on 18 (plus Shake's comment).

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Ok then

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I wasn't saying to discount the votes. I was just saying it's something that should be noted since I feel most of the people have voted haven't seen our debate or your concession on it. The reason a lot of people started voting is because of your comment about her tech manip not working on 18 (plus Shake's comment).

I have noticed

 

[LaserPrecision]

I think I'll vote for 18 too btw. It is unlikely she'd figure out Android 18 is mechanical. Unless 18 does something obvious during their fight to give away she is one. I don't think her powers are dead giveaways given the type of powers present in Sonic.

 

[Da3ggman]

18's first win FRA

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Dragon Ball character defeating someone with mind hax? Incredulous, but not enough to disagree. Will vote 18 FRA.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

That's grace

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Good for 18

 

[TauanVictor]

18 FRA

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Grace ended. Android 18 won

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Grace ended. Android 18 won

Closing