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I am currently trying to make an updated page.
Null flower was also doing this, but I think his page is a bit cluttered
Phoenks/Keyaru
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Keyaru vs Goblin Slayer (A mysogymnastic fights a good, decent human being)
- Thread starter Deidalius
- Start date
Null flower was also doing this, but I think his page is a bit cluttered
vsbattles.fandom.com
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Sandbox is pretty limited at the moment. What can I do to help?
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Prolly just go through the series yourself and see if I missed anything important or notable.
Null flower made a bunch of calcs so I can probably just use those in the future
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... I can see why this hasn't been done yet...
My biggest problem with the series is first that his mental and moral deterioration is depicted as a positive thing, and second that his actions are basically the worst thing one can do for his PTSD. Where Shield Hero is about Naofumi avoiding the terrible people who screwed him over and attaching himself to people who are good for him, and Goblin Slayer is about Goblin Slayer and Priestess destroying the goblins so that fewer people will have to endure the terrible experiences they went through, Redo is about Keyaru choosing to surround himself with controlled versions of the very people who wronged him, and taking the pathological power dynamic the princess insisted on having over him and intentionally replicating it with him exercising that same pathological power dynamic over everyone he has in his life, literally a textbook example of sinking ever deeper into the negativity.
Is a CRT needed?
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- Thread starter
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I can become a supporter and help improve that verse on this wiki.
...I mean, I would prefer if Redo of healer wasn't in this wiki since it's noncon **** but since it is here and all attempts to remove it failed, might as well make the profiles as accurate as possible.
Also, in relation to the fight. With the new rules, Keyaru would win. I don't think he would stomp since Goblin Slayer has a chance to use his teleportation scroll to destroy all the body parts of Keyaru, but Keyaru can kill Goblin Slayer too and has a speed advantage.
With unequalized speed it might be more debatable according to the clarifications of Keyaru's abilities that Fénix made, that they don't require touching, just for someone to be near. But Goblin Slayer would be faster and would speedblitz Keyaru at close range and could one shot him with his superior strength and his teleportation summon scroll thingy. Goblin slayer would win with unequalized stats and a range advantage.
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I think a lot of people forget with Keyaru that the entire world he lives in is corrupt, and for all his flaws, Keyaru is preferable to his enemies. They slaughter and indecently assault civilians, while he only targets the guilty, and even protects several innocents. So he actually is an anti-hero, even if some of his tendencies lean more towards being an anti-villain. He's a PTSD victim who has deteriorated to the point of being a sociopath, as shown with the power he needs to exercise over others, and the big problem is that the series treats this transformation as a positive thing. Naofumi also needs to keep himself protected from betrayal or he can't trust anyone, but he doesn't constantly exercise power over others to feel good about himself. What's more, Shield Hero depicts Naofumi's depression and trust issues as a flaw, not a virtue.
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That doesn't justify Keyaru having carnal acts with his fox daughter. Or his lack of consent. Rape is not murder, you can justify murder but never rape.
He is someone who in his quest for revenge became as bad as the people he was fighting against. Eye for an eye turned made him blind and a monster.
Honestly, the only reason the villains in Redo of healer are worse than Keyaru are because they're cartoonishly pure evil just to try to make Keyaru more likeable.
Keyaru's a villain, simple as.
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yeah **** keyaru and his verse
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No, it doesn't. And she is innocent, meaning that in a healthy series he would have not taken the princess with him, and formed a relationship with the fox similar to Naofumi's relationship with Raphtalia.
Murder is really only justifiable in self-defense.
Almost, but yes. The big problem with the series is that it depicts depravity and evil as something to be succumbed to within oneself rather than something to rise above.
Maybe. They are most definitely worse than him though.
In another world he would be. I've tended to find that the factor that makes an anti-hero or anti-villain is being preferable to those they oppose, and generally achieving some kind of better outcome by fighting them. Caim from Drakengard (predecessor to Nier) enjoys mass slaughter and kicks a dying civilian woman in the face when she grabs his leg. Despite this, he's an anti-hero because by fighting the empire he saves the world, and because his backstory explains why he's so rabid. Is he good? No. But he's still not quite a villain. Admittedly his saving of the world is a far stronger heroic achievement than anything Keyaru has done.
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Agreed, honestly. Especially the core idea behind the verse, which is that rather than rising above evil, it's better to succumb to it and meet it on its own level. A very bad ideal.
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I feel I should explain my stance here. I see Keyaru as the closest thing his verse has to a heroic figure, which is sad, but I also see him as a victim who decided to express the same pathological control over others that was exerted over him, in effect becoming what he hated.
My biggest dislike of the verse is not for Keyaru himself, but for the core ideals behind the verse. His turning into a sociopath is treated as an improvement of himself, and this is a big problem. The ideals behind it can be directly contrasted with the ideals of Shield Hero.
My biggest dislike of the verse is not for Keyaru himself, but for the core ideals behind the verse. His turning into a sociopath is treated as an improvement of himself, and this is a big problem. The ideals behind it can be directly contrasted with the ideals of Shield Hero.
- Where Shield Hero shows Naofumi keeping away from the people who wronged him, Redo shows Keyaru choosing to keep them in his life on his own terms. Naofumi's response is healthy, Keyaru's is extremely unhealthy.
- Shield Hero shows Naofumi forming a bond with Raphtalia which he tries to keep cold and distant but is unable to, and ultimately she rescues him from his despair. Meanwhile Redo shows Keyaru needing to exert violent and mentally abusive control over the fox, resulting in a lopsided and unhealthy relationship built to give him total control. As a result, where Naofumi and Raphtalia grow into a close team who love each other, Keyaru's relationship with the fox will always be based on his power over her, established through making her dependent on him, alarmingly similar to the drug addiction he suffered.
- Where Naofumi dedicates his efforts to saving the world due to his love for people in it like Raphtalia and Filo, Keyaru has selfishly dedicated his entire existence to his own pleasure and sense of power. Where Naofumi has chosen to be a man on a mission to help the people he cares about, who will work towards the best outcome for them even if it costs him his life, Keyaru has chosen to surround himself with people he sees as nothing but toys, and to simply indulge all of his own worst whims. A person like that in real life will inevitably end up being a terrible and ultimately worthless person, living for nothing but abusive sex with people he views as objects. He might as well just be a comatose drug addict, living like that.
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noninho
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That's why I'd like GS to win, but it's ok
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I might have rambled a bit... But still, I stand by the contrast. Goblin Slayer deals with his pain by killing goblins and by protecting others from them, Naofumi's pain consumes him for a time but because he didn't change his actual nature, he and Raphtalia were able to bond in ways Keyaru will never bond with his puppets, and Raphtalia saved him as a result. This close bond is also true of Goblin Slayer and Priestess.
Keyaru's need for power in his relationships is a textbook sociopathic trait, and so are his disregard for morality and his heightened sex drive. Unlike those other characters who've grown close to other people who are in equal friendships with them, Keyaru has denied himself that friendship by doing what he does, and the biggest joke? He had the opportunity to simply flee the castle, disappear and restart his life, and he flushed it down the toilet so he could have the princess. Imagine choosing to spend your life with someone you hate while forcing them to love you, and then continuing to hate them. I can't think of anything more toxic, off the top of my head.
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I mean, he's winning with equalized speed.
No one has brought up good arguments to why Goblin Slayer wins with equal speed yet.
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Goblin Slayer wins by being better and literally defying the fate that the true gods of his verse, who views it as a game of DnD and him as a character, set up for him which makes him the only character whom they cannot anticipate or influence.
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How does that stop him from being speedblitzed and corrupted to death?
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I thought we were still discussing characters and stuff...
But yeah, Orcbolg is getting stomped with speed equalized.
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Goblin Slayer being better than Keyaru goes without saying.
It's a take as hot as tap water.
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That's not true; tap water can get up to a reasonable temperature. More like ice water.
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Tap water is not hot nor warm unless you live in a crappy city.
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The hot tap can be.
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