Kenshiro vs Guts

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Guts ,Kenshiro

Rules

Both in character

10 meter distance

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Kenshiro is Low 7-C, Guts is only 8-B

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Check the special abilities of both, I wont make a match with two characters who have a big tier gap without reason.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The Berserker Armor may block the Hokuto Shinken but Ken's basic physical strikes are still more than enough to put Guts down, regardless of Guts' abilities

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Obviously Guts wont be able to tank Kenshiro's attacks against him, however he can certainly dodge them. And there is Dragonslayers ability to damage the soul/ethereal body of his target, when you factor this in it's where the matchup gets interesting.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

This is a good matchup but i will have to give this to Kenshiro via higher AP and having attacks that damage pressure points and atoms even though Guts has faster reactions, he doesn't have any attacks to harm Kenshiro durability. Ken just needs to hit him with a few blows.

 

[Foodiefight]

This is a good matchup but i will have to give this to Kenshiro via higher AP and having attacks that damage pressure points and atoms even though Guts has faster reactions, he doesn't have any attacks to harm Kenshiro durability. Ken just needs to hit him with a few blows.

I gonna say what this ssj say

 

[Battlemania]

AllanSaiyan took the words out my mouth. Going to go with Kenshiro with mid-high difficulty.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

I don't think you have read the previous point I said, let me repeat just in case. Dragonslayer has the ability to harm the targets ethereal body/soul, and with this he stands a chance.

 

[Cohobast]

Just as a quick disclaimer I'm only going off what's on the pages since I havent seen much from either verse. I dont see how harming Kenshiro's etheral body/ soul would equalize the two unless it's been said that his durability is strictly the result of Ki. Overall Guts just doesnt seem to have the stats or abilities to keep up with Ken or the AP put him down.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

I think this should answer your question Cohobast.

 

[Cohobast]

I'd have to look more into how etheral bodies work in the berzerk universe before I'd be able to weigh in further. If harm/destruction to an etheral body can happen independantly of the physical then he might be able to do some damage. It's also hard to say what Kenshiro's resistance to such an attack might be or if being a skilled martial artist/ ki user constitutes a form of soul defense.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Damage done to the ethereal body debilitates the physical body, and also seems to bypass Regenerationn too. Plus I think you would need to get a scan of Kenshiro being able to no sell soul damage if you want to prove he can resist it.

 

[Cohobast]

Has there been a case of damage being done to the etheral body being divorced from damage done to the physical body, from the scan you showed it looks like the blow that hit him had a physical componant to it as well. If he has to go through the physical body to hit the etheral body I cant see him doing more than scratch damage

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

If Guts was to cut Kenshiro, he would be going through both simultaneously. And if Kenshiro's soul is not shown to be resistant to soul damaging attacks then Dragonslayer would debilitate Kenshiro's physical body and allow Guts to inflict major damage onto him.

 

[Cohobast]

That brings us back to the problem that he just can't cut Kenshiro to begin with. If he can't hurt the small town + level body surrounding his vulnerable soul then he can't hurt the soul underneath.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Going by this logic, Guts would be unable to harm intangible beings as he cannot hit the body, therefore he cannot hit the soul. This logic is wrong however due to these scans.

Dragonslayer cuts through Kenshiro due to it harming the astral body which debilitates the physical body. If Kenshiro has no soul or is resistant to these attacks then Dragonslayer would do scratches to him. Which requires proof.

 

[Cohobast]

I dont have any problem at all with him hitting intangible beings since there would be nothing in the way of him hitting their soul. What I had a problem with was the idea of him being able to cut through an extreamly tangable body in order to even reach the soul.

The way I currently see the situation playing out is that if Guts attacks Kenshiro with his sword, he'll be hitting his physical and spiritual body at the same time, since he's attacking both I'd say the strength of his physical body would stop the sword before it can cut and damage his spiritual body. What you seem to be saying is Guts would hit his spirit first, doing damage which would then be reflected on his body but I still don't see him breaking past the physical defense with Kenshiro's listed durability.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

"he'll be hitting his physical and spiritual body at the same time," You admit that he would be hitting the spiritual body, but the effects of this wont debilitate his physical body?

 

[Cohobast]

He'd be hitting both at the same time. The stronger defense takes priority from my understanding.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

If Kenshiro's soul has shown no resistance to soul damaging attacks, Dragonslayer would go through both as his physical body will be debillitated as a result from harming the astral one.

 

[Cohobast]

If he could cut through the spiritual body first, even by an infinitesimal amount of time then I'd say that his physical body would be debilitated but it doesnt work if he is hitting both simultaniously. The stronger physical defense would stop to blow before any damage can be done to the astral.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

If he could cut through the spiritual body first, even by an infinitesimal amount of time then I'd say that his physical body would be debilitated but it doesnt work if he is hitting both simultaniously. The stronger physical defense would stop to blow before any damage can be done to the astral.

This argument makes no sense, you agree that Dragonslayer will be hitting both simultaneously, yet he wont do any damage to his astral body due to Kenshiro's physical defense.

Just knowing that Dragonslayer will hit the astral body is enough to know that he will do damage to the physical body. As Kenshiro (as far as I am aware) has no spiritual damage resistance.

 

[LordKill90908]

I'm fairly certain that the soul damaging moves in tandem with the physical attack. If he can't cut the physical body, the astral attack can't get to the astral body as it is tied to the physical attack. Simply put, Guts still needs to be able to cut Kenshiro in order to damage the soul.

 

[Ryukama]

Ken's physical superiority could let him tank all of Guts hits and likely one shot him. However Guts has the reactions to avoid and a technique that negates durability which he'd be more likely to use before Ken would use Muso Tensei. I give it to Guts high difficulty.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

If he can't cut the physical body, the astral attack can't get to the astral body as it is tied to the physical attack. Simply put, Guts still needs to be able to cut Kenshiro in order to damage the soul.

The physical strike hits both spirit and physical bodies at the same time, as stated in scans previously shown damage done to the astral body debilitates the physical body. Allowing Guts to cut through. Unless Kenshiro has soul damage resistance he wont tank it.

 

[Cohobast]

I have to put my vote with Ken still just because I think striking both defences simultaniously forces the blade to stop when it hits the physical part of Ken's body. If you can show either something proving soul damage hits first or if guts has an attack that only hits spirit then that would change things.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

When it hits both physical/spirtual bodies simultaneously the damage done to Kenshiro's soul will debilitate his physical body, allowing for Dragonslayer to go further into his body. This also creates a permanant wound which Kenshiro cannot heal (unless he has soul resistance,healing techniques).

 

[Cohobast]

When it hits both physical/spiritual bodies simultaneously I'd still say the sword falls short at the physical barrier without damage to the soul. If guts does somehow manage to do physical damage througgh Ken's durability the wound would be permanant but in the short term the spiritual damage won't help guts in this fight. You'd still need spirit damage to come first somehow if you want the cleaving effect you're looking for.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

It won't fall short at the physical barrier, because it will be debilitated as a result from the damage his soul will take. As both are hit simultaneously. This will be my last word on the matter as I fear we will be running in circles and I tire of repeating myself.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Awaken thread.

 

[Moathon]

Sigh, old thread but unless speed is equalized Guts won't touch Kenshiro with Dragon Slayer, IMO Hokuto No Shinken has better durability negation than Guts anersal, kenshiro has 1001 ways of incapitating, killing or disabling Guts, plus Kenshiro has far better durability and stamina feats than Guts. Kenshiro blitz him and takes this with mild difficulty 8/10 times.

 

[Mohammed_Mubarak_Alkhater]

Guts Is Already Dead.

 

[The_Calaca]

Holy mother of a necro and a stomp.