Kenny Omega Supernatural Willpower CRT

[RandomGuy2345]

In fact, isn't one such feat specifically about how he was at his limit, but continued on anyway?

This feat right here.

So basically what Expectro's argument was was that it makes no sense to take the statement commentators made seriously, and that it's more likely that the commentators were just exaggerating how exhausted Kenny was. He also mentions the fact that the statement made by commentary gets contradicted by the fact that Kenny starts moving shortly after all of his energy was depleted.

However, my argument is that it makes sense to take what commentary said seriously when you actually look at the clips of the video and see that it took everything out of Kenny to reach the ropes. Also, I used the term "Running on fumes" to describe what Kenny was doing. There's also the fact that these commentators have decades of experience in commentating matches, so they know their shit when it comes to commentating on a wrestling match. Of course, not everything they say should be taken legitimately, but commentary is a reliable source here.

Random comment to RandomGuy makes perfect sense

Commentator is NJPW English ceommentary team member Don Callis former WWF wrestler.

Been part of NJPW commentary team since 2017. He is so credible that when Omega left the company in 2020 he joined in as he right hand men serving as his manger of both Omega and The Elite who the founder of ALL ELITE WRESTLING company itself.

• He has been in WWF as an active wrestler,
• Commentator in NJPW
• Manager in AEW and NJPW and Impact Wrestling
• Manges Omega and The Elite regularly on AEW as seen below

If this was some normal crook who has never been in the ring then you could dismiss him like Jimmy Smith or some random commentator but he has 2 decades worth of Professional Wrestling Journalism and commentary experience.

Here is @DemonicDude going into deeper detail about how experienced the person who made the statement about Omega having all of his energy shredded away is/

 

[RandomGuy2345]

They'll learn soon enough, they don't know what I'm cooking.

Maybe next time don't try and be a goofy goober like the Batman versus thread.

 

[Chariot190]

Maybe next time don't try and be a goofy goober like the Batman versus thread.

He says, while ignoring how he actively argued for Theory in being skilled enough to contend, and then even after everyone said it was a stomp, doubled down and said it was fair still.
Don't think I forgot boy.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

He says, while ignoring how he actively argued for Theory in being skilled enough to contend, and then even after everyone said it was a stomp, doubled down and said it was fair still.
Don't think I forgot boy.

I never said that, I brought up the argument that Theory's AD may or may not be able to help him adapt to Batman's skill.

Also you pit the entirety of WWE against ******* Batman, or we just gonna forget that? You even got called out for your goonery, too lol.

 

[Chariot190]

I brought up the argument that Theory's AD may or may not be able to help him adapt to Batman's skill.

you just proved my point

Also you pit the entirety of WWE against ******* Batman, or we just gonna forget that? You even got called out for your goonery, too lol.

My only mistake was thinking they ever had a chance
he has fear hax res and probably lowkey resists mind manip so shrug

take the agreement before i sic baoh on jerico

 

[RandomGuy2345]

take the agreement before i sic baoh on jerico

Mf what did Jericho do to you?

Anyways, back on topic:

This feat right here.

So basically what Expectro's argument was was that it makes no sense to take the statement commentators made seriously, and that it's more likely that the commentators were just exaggerating how exhausted Kenny was. He also mentions the fact that the statement made by commentary gets contradicted by the fact that Kenny starts moving shortly after all of his energy was depleted.

However, my argument is that it makes sense to take what commentary said seriously when you actually look at the clips of the video and see that it took everything out of Kenny to reach the ropes. Also, I used the term "Running on fumes" to describe what Kenny was doing. There's also the fact that these commentators have decades of experience in commentating matches, so they know their shit when it comes to commentating on a wrestling match. Of course, not everything they say should be taken legitimately, but commentary is a reliable source here.


Here is @DemonicDude going into deeper detail about how experienced the person who made the statement about Omega having all of his energy shredded away is/

These were the arguments presented for the part where Kenny "reached his limit" and continued fighting. Do you have a opinion on this, Chariot?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

"Immense", though it honestly just depends on who you ask because we unironically don't have any baselines for this shit and it's mostly just "eh yeah that checks out ig" logic.
pol is superhuman tho, especially given how he escaped after being turned into a human potato

I acknowledge that personally, I don't think it strictly qualifies, but I also acknowledge that our "standards" don't actually exist, there's no requirement, it very much varies depending on who you ask, and even between accepted listings on numerous profiles, it can and does vary, and indexing it is far more important than not indexing it. Don't strawman or twist what I've said.

It can be indexed without the need of listing it as an ability (and linking it to the SW page), with just mention in the stamina section (possibly also the intelligence section?) that he was able to continue fighting under x conditions and Y injuries is already enough, like if really wanted it could be even mentioned in the A&T since it's function is to explain in depth the characteristics of a character.

Yeah, and to be frank, that's vague as ****, what are "human standards", average human? Outliers that existed throughout history? What about humans that could only do what they could due to various medical conditions like lack of pain? Let's be real, we have no standards, and a vague "beyond real human standards" means nothing in the grand scheme of things especially when it doesn't actually list any real human examples. Where are the examples? The page should at the very least list real human standard examples as a baseline yet it doesn't, what about the dude who was able to function despite getting a pipe through the head? Would we say he has supernatural will? Or even type 2 immortality? No, because he's an exceptional outlier who while he might have existed irl, isn't at all the conventional standard. So would the minimum for supernatural willpower be "hey survive and continue to be fine after getting a 2 inch thick pipe lodged through your head"? Not really, but you can't deny such a thing happened and should be impossible irl.
And as I've said multiple times before, it's more important to index it.

What peak humans can do. In the previous crt about stamina I went in depth (from this post onwards) about what real humans can go through. The pipe case didn't new existed, guess I later will search for it to know the details.

This feat right here.

So basically what Expectro's argument was was that it makes no sense to take the statement commentators made seriously, and that it's more likely that the commentators were just exaggerating how exhausted Kenny was. He also mentions the fact that the statement made by commentary gets contradicted by the fact that Kenny starts moving shortly after all of his energy was depleted.

Yes and no, my point is that it shouldn't be taken so literally in the way that want for it qualifying for SW (literally having zero energy left), however is a fact that Kenny was indeed quite tired so that part is indeed true.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

It's fine, just threaten them with a Batman or Kamen Rider vs match or some shit.

 

[Chariot190]

It can be indexed without the need of listing it as an ability (and linking it to the SW page), with just mention in the stamina section (possibly also the intelligence section?) that he was able to continue fighting under x conditions and Y injuries is already enough, like if really wanted it could be even mentioned in the A&T since it's function is to explain in depth the characteristics of a character.

Disagree, it's not stamina and it isn't intelligence, it's willpower, ergo, it's linked to the only page on the wiki that touches upon willpower (for some reason?).

It's not an attack or technique either, it's willpower.

I can't agree to any of that, that's just shoddy workarounds without actually indexing it and putting it in places where it doesn't belong moreso than just linking to SW but wording it as something a tad below.

What peak humans can do. In the previous crt about stamina I went in depth (from this post onwards) about what real humans can go through. The pipe case didn't new existed, guess I later will search for it to know the details.

Stamina isn't will power, in fact that's far more tangible, we can just see what a person has exerted through, and call it a day, stamina isn't so simple in comparison.
I saw that CRT lad, you're confusing endurance/stamina with willpower. Someone could have sub human stamina and endurance, but have a will stronger than most people. What matters is, well, force of will. Like obviously a trained roided out muscle bound athlete doing a 12km run is nothing, easy. But some nerd with glass bones doing the same thing, requires far more will and effort to do. It's the same feat but in terms of effort and will it is not the same, there's also things like overcoming fear, having the will to make extreme choices, etc, will isn't just a matter of "ouch i got hurt but im gonna continue".

I'd argue will is less about what they do, and more about what's being done in relation to their base capabilities, which just brings up another issue with this, it's subjective as all hell.

You're gonna be shocked when you find out what people have survived. There's shit we list as Type 2 immortality that normal people somehow lived through. They're natural outliers, how did they do it? Lmao **** if we know in some cases, it just kinda happened.

Yes and no, my point is that it shouldn't be taken so literally in the way that want for it qualifying for SW (literally having zero energy left), however is a fact that Kenny was indeed quite tired so that part is indeed true.

I'm not even arguing about this, I'm arguing in general at this point. As far as I'm concerened, as long as it's explained and isn't listed as SW but rather just a strong will, it's fine.

Either way, we do in fact allow this practice, I see no reason why we can't here beyond just opinion, but at that point you'd have to remove this practice, as a whole, as to avoid double standards.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Or maybe it's because the people who threaten us with those matches are salty over the fact that their character took an L to a fake sport.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Disagree, it's not stamina and it isn't intelligence, it's willpower, ergo, it's linked to the only page on the wiki that touches upon willpower (for some reason?).

It's not an attack or technique either, it's willpower.

I can't agree to any of that, that's just shoddy workarounds without actually indexing it and putting it in places where it doesn't belong moreso than just linking to SW but wording it as something a tad below.

Pain tolerante (aka stamina) go to the hand with the willpower of someone, something noted by the Supernatural Willpower page itself:

Characters with this ability may be able to resist enormous amounts of pain

And the stamina page itself:

Often times, many of these stamina feats occur as a result of strong willpower, potentially Supernatural Willpower in some cases. In these cases, mental exhaustion and the breaking of someone's will can be major contributing factors for the degree of stamina as well.

The feats used to argue for Kenny are also directly pain tolerance:

1. Withstand the pain from a boston crab and other previous techniques.
2. Withstand the injuries from combats.
3. Withstand attacks

Hence why it would, and is, listed in the stamina section as pain tolerance.

Despite the name Attack & Techniques in that section go listed any notable trait of a character in general besides their attacks and techniques itselfs, is the reason of why for example is possible to list there something like the expressionlessness of a character as long that is something significant in of the character, you don't see it indexed in the P&A section linking to a page as a power to which it doesn't qualify (for example isn't listed linking to something like Social Influencing because it doesn't qualify for the power despite be the closest ability to it).

Stamina isn't will power, in fact that's far more tangible, we can just see what a person has exerted through, and call it a day, stamina isn't so simple in comparison.
I saw that CRT lad, you're confusing endurance/stamina with willpower. Someone could have sub human stamina and endurance, but have a will stronger than most people. What matters is, well, force of will. Like obviously a trained roided out muscle bound athlete doing a 12km run is nothing, easy. But some nerd with glass bones doing the same thing, requires far more will and effort to do. It's the same feat but in terms of effort and will it is not the same, there's also things like overcoming fear, having the will to make extreme choices, etc, will isn't just a matter of "ouch i got hurt but im gonna continue".

I'd argue will is less about what they do, and more about what's being done in relation to their base capabilities, which just brings up another issue with this, it's subjective as all hell.

You're gonna be shocked when you find out what people have survived. There's shit we list as Type 2 immortality that normal people somehow lived through. They're natural outliers, how did they do it? Lmao **** if we know in some cases, it just kinda happened.

Stamina, specifically pain tolerance, is tied to willpower however, something the wiki acknowledge, reason to why it go listed in the stamina section.

Kenny things are literally "ouch i got hurt but im gonna continue" so don't know what your are arguing if you are in favor to give him the ability for that.

I know the cases of people fighting with the skull dented, necks broken and such, but the pipe one was new to me.

 

[DemonicDude]

I was talking about rest between matches since he isn't constantly fighting 24/7. After matches fighters receive medical treatment, and if you suddenly can't

walk straight and instead fall into a dresser and knock over a bunch of stuff you damn sure will go with a doctor to see what happens, maybe he didn't received specialized big treatments that would make him leave the ring for long periods of time, but that doesn't mean he didn't receive any treatment at all, even more considering how he himself knew that he needed treatment and tried to be careful with his health (things you can see in his comments in the pages linked here in this crt).



Ok, and? If you acknowledge they are bot durability and stamina feats why bring them? Also, he didn't receive super heavy cuts that would put his life in danger and still fought (he received small cuts, something that don't kill you unless great veins are cut), if he received an fatal cut (like for example having his jugular cut) and still fought do to sheer will I could see SW, but that isn't the case here.



I can see the point of being stamina feats, but I don't see nowhere how that is remotely close to the levels of feats stated in the SW page (or in Saman comments) that would grant the ability.



Yes, and no one said that he wasn't going through a lot of pain and physical tormet, however that level is in the realm of the realistically speaking humanly possible and nowhere is close to the feats stated to be needed in the SW page or in Saman comments. Just because they are real persons isn't a reason to be so lenient with them, precisely that was what made them have several ridiculous things accepted in the profiles, if they don't meet the level needed for an power then they just don't get it, as simple as that.

Also, the excuse of the confinement to things we can do as people don't work because 1) We accept the verse as fiction with fictional characters (literally the only reason why the verse is allowed, along with various of its wrestlers) 2) We accept that they can actually do things impossible to humans, Kenny himself for example is accepted as a cyborg that can stop time and travel in time (showcased in one of his videos), so they have the ability to really perfom things that humans can't (through the use of videos mainly), if despite that fact they don't showcase absurdly beyond human level feats that would grant SW then is entirely their fault, they have the means but don't use them like that

 

[DemonicDude]

Also Money Manipulation is based asf.

Okada has money manipulation

Kazuchika Okada GIF - Kazuchika Okada Wrestling - Discover & Share GIFs

Click to view the GIF

tenor.com

 

[DemonicDude]

Nah. Pikaman, who's been very critical of the proposals DD .

Who is that ??? I have no idea. WWF 90s jobber name lol.

 

[DemonicDude]

Maybe next time don't try and be a goofy goober like the Batman versus thread.

NRG thread flashbacks from High 8-C Tournament...

 

[DemonicDude]

Mf what did Jericho do to you?

Anyways, back on topic:


These were the arguments presented for the part where Kenny "reached his limit" and continued fighting. Do you have a opinion on this, Chariot?

If this is not supernatural Willpower then it's immense pain tolerance and I'm calling a mod to see it not now probably some hours later cause they are offline.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

then it's immense pain tolerance

Immense Willpower*

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Bump.

Oh, and I agree with Chariot's proposals.

I feel like the feats shown are something we should index, as the feats are clearly showing Kenny's immense amounts of willpower. Of course, it doesn't quite reach the absolute absurd standards of Supernatural Willpower, but I feel like it shouldn't be ignored. Hell, iirc, it's outright stated in the Supernatural Willpower page that there are characters with very strong wills, but don't quite reach the absurd standards of Supernatural Willpower.

I also agree with his argument of the amount of outliers for stamina feats we have in the real world, and how we shouldn't be using them to compare fictional verses.

I feel like Kenny Omega should just have 'Strong Willpower' indexed in his P&A section.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Already saw this thread a while back.

Agreed with Chariot then, still agree now.