Kenny Omega Downgrade

[Expectro2000xxx]

So thanks to the match the other day I saw various things wrong with Kenny so will try to remove some of them and change some others

• Analytical Prediction/Precognition (Can keep on continuously predict and counter enemies moves in the combat and is excellent when it comes to countering enemies moves in the combat)

The first scan is normal dodging, by that logic almost all profiles of characters who can fight would have analytical prediction. The second scan is not avaible so don't know what is supposed to be there, but unless is an actual legit analytical prediction feat (which I honestly doubt at least based in the description) and someone bring a replacement then should be revomed.

• Expert Marksmanship (Kenny uses his pressure point strike on people when they jump or leap on him in mid air on the side of the skull falling them unconscious)

This is absolutely wrong, like pretty wrong, just search in any dictionary the meaning of marksmanship (feels weird that the person who motherlanguage isn't english and who don't talk it well have to point something like this), this is literally just a kick.

• Power Mimicry (Copied Okada's moves against him and copies enemy fighting style as he copied John Moxley's moveset and defeated his opponent using it)

Have saw various times the first clip and honestly can't see him copying any move from the opponent so don't know why is that there. In the second one he indeed used a move from the opponent, however he only imitated one move (which isn't really a complex technique) and used it when the other dude was stunned, so I propose to change it to:

• Minor Technique Mimicry (Imitated the lariat of John Moxley's and used it to finish his opponent when he was stunned)

• Homing Target

There is no justification listed, though I suppose this is the look on target of his eye, which isn't homing attack and at much could be classified as enhanced senses (should also be noted that is unknow how actually effective the look on target is since the only time is show is against normal dudes who were literally standing still).

• Pressure Points (Can knock people out with The V-Trigger as well as break the jaw and skull)

In principle I don't think we really classify brutal kicks which knock down people as pressure points even if the target get stunned, which is what happen in the clips in the album:

1. The first one he kick a dude in the head when he was immobile after slamming him against the floor
2. In the second clip he kicked the opponent in the elbow and then two times in the head which end stunning him
3. In the third one he kicked what look like an old man two times in the head and the dude lost consciousness
4. In the fourth one he kicked a dude in the head after running
5. In the fifth one he kicked in the head someone already exhausted and in the floor
6. In the sixth one he kicked the previous dude in the head again
7. In the seventh one he kicked someone in the head after running
8. In the eighth one he kicked in the head someone running against him and the after the dude was stunned he kicked him again in the head.

All are instances of people getting stunned after receive great damage in the head, not because he have some amazing technique that target pressure points, if we give Kenny pressure point do to this then we may as well give it to all boxers and people who have knocked down someone after hitting them in the head.

• Immense Pain Tolerance (Survived exploding barbwire match, Went through several mouse traps and having his chainsaw used in his groin, Going head first into a glass table being launched on a wooden table and jumping tombstone piledrivers along with chair shot on the head with full force. Omega was able to get up seconds later after being dropped on his head on the sharp wired table with a piledriver, Having him dropped head frist on sharp barbed wired exploding table and being dumped into a pile of wiring bed. Omega was able to survive Chris Jericho's Walls of Jericho, Lion tamer as well as Code breaker and defeated him)

Pain tolerance isn't an ability, so this should all go just to the stamina section. And also talking about his stamina, he probably should have Peak Human instead of Superhuman because while he certainly have quite the stamina in the end they seem things that humans can actually endure.

Lifting Strength: At least Peak Human, likely Class 5 (Capable of lifting people with one hand, Comparable to Chris Jericho. Omega Can deadlift his opponents such as Michael Elgin who is 270 lbs, Defeated and overpowered his rival Kazuchika Okada who is capable of lifting fellow Bullet Club member Bad Luck Fale who is the heaviest NJPW wrestler and weigh 360 lbs)

No feat listed is beyond Athletic Human since that cover the range from 120kg to 227kg, so it should just be changed to Athletic Human.

And I think that was all

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Agree

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Sadge...

The first scan is normal dodging, by that logic almost all profiles of characters who can fight would have analytical prediction. The second scan is not avaible so don't know what is supposed to be there, but unless is an actual legit analytical prediction feat (which I honestly doubt at least based in the description) and someone bring a replacement then should be revomed.

I sadly agree with this one. It's just very good skill dodging at best.

This is absolutely wrong, like pretty wrong, just search in any dictionary the meaning of marksmanship (feels weird that the person who motherlanguage isn't english and who don't talk it well have to point something like this), this is literally just a kick.

Also agreed. This is just very good timing on the part of Kenny. A lot of wrestlers are able to catch opponents in mid-air (which is honestly something we should start arguing with more often).

Have saw various times the first clip and honestly can't see him copying any move from the opponent so don't know why is that there. In the second one he indeed used a move from the opponent, however he only imitated one move (which isn't really a complex technique) and used it when the other dude was stunned, so I propose to change it to:

Agree as well. Kenny can copy basic martial arts moves, but it's not anything crazy.

There is no justification listed, though I suppose this is the look on target of his eye, which isn't homing attack and at much could be classified as enhanced senses (should also be noted that is unknow how actually effective the look on target is since the only time is show is against normal dudes who were literally standing still).

Honestly can't say much on this.

In principle I don't think we really classify brutal kicks which knock down people as pressure points even if the target get stunned, which is what happen in the clips in the album:

1. The first one he kick a dude in the head when he was immobile after slamming him against the floor
2. In the second clip he kicked the opponent in the elbow and then two times in the head which end stunning him
3. In the third one he kicked what look like an old man two times in the head and the dude lost consciousness
4. In the fourth one he kicked a dude in the head after running
5. In the fifth one he kicked in the head someone already exhausted and in the floor
6. In the sixth one he kicked the previous dude in the head again
7. In the seventh one he kicked someone in the head after running
8. In the eighth one he kicked in the head someone running against him and the after the dude was stunned he kicked him again in the head.

All are instances of people getting stunned after receive great damage in the head, not because he have some amazing technique that target pressure points, if we give Kenny pressure point do to this then we may as well give it to all boxers and people who have knocked down someone after hitting them in the head.

Definitely agree. This is not PP. This is just the sheer amount of force the kick had that KO'd/Stunned Kenny's opponents. Finishers are just moves that are far stronger than a wrestler's normal moves.

Pain tolerance isn't an ability, so this should all go just to the stamina section. And also talking about his stamina, he probably should have Peak Human instead of Superhuman because while he certainly have quite the stamina in the end they seem things that humans can actually endure.

I honestly don't mind having Pain Tolerance on someone's profile. It's seriously not that big of a deal.

No feat listed is beyond Athletic Human since that cover the range from 120kg to 227kg, so it should just be changed to Athletic Human.

Also agree.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I honestly don't mind having Pain Tolerance on someone's profile. It's seriously not that big of a deal.

The point is that since pain tolerance isn't an ability and is especifically a stamina thing as per the stamina page, then the correct thing to do is really move those feats to the stamina section and know is a good chance to good so considering how the purpose of this crt is to correct his profile. Is also true that there are some profiles that list pain tolerance as an ability but as we know two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

The point is that since pain tolerance isn't an ability and is especifically a stamina thing as per the stamina page, then the correct thing to do is really move those feats to the stamina section and know is a good chance to good so considering how the purpose of this crt is to correct his profile. Is also true that there are some profiles that list pain tolerance as an ability but as we know two wrongs don't make a right.

There are quite literally tons of profiles on this wiki that have Pain Tolerance as an ability. I don't see the point of removing it tbh.

Agree to disagree.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

There are quite literally tons of profiles on this wiki that have Pain Tolerance as an ability. I don't see the point of removing it tbh.

Agree to disagree.

Those profiles are explicitly wrong, I'm in phone right now but later can go to search and link here the ton of times staff stated how pain tolerance isn't an ability and instead stamina feat.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Yeah I think we cockblocked listing Pain Tolerance shiz around the time of Stamina revision, and just decided to put it into the stamina justification instead.

Quite a lot of profiles still list it (Admittedly, I believe I also did this), but yeah, it shouldn't exist.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Imo, it's kinda unnecessary to remove Pain Tolerance from hundreds, if not, thousands of profiles.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I wonder how we'd list dudes with garbage fighting stamina but great Pain Tolerance

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I wonder how we'd list dudes with garbage fighting stamina but great Pain Tolerance

Idk.

Like lasting 2 mins in a fight is doo doo stamina, but can you tolerate a great amount of pain during that short time frame?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I wonder how we'd list dudes with garbage fighting stamina but great Pain Tolerance

We just list thst in the stamina section, the stamina page go well in detail about how stamina is a broad terme with many categories and explain how pain tolerance is one of them while energy exertion is another different one.

Imo, it's kinda unnecessary to remove Pain Tolerance from hundreds, if not, thousands of profiles.

You know that this type of changes don't necessarily need to be done to all profiles in one go right? Instead can be done progressively one at the time when someone see a profile listing incorrectly pain tolerance as an ability, like how I'm doing right now in this crt while also at the same time correcting in general Kenny profile. Also, I honestly doubt that there are really thousands of profiles doing that (could be wrong, would need to be in pc to confirm), but even if that is the case in perspective they would be an small amount between all the current profiles in the wiki so in any case isn't the best idea to use them as example of what is the correct formatting of a profile.

In short, there is no reason to not move all the pain tolerance feats of Kenny to the stamina section.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

We just list thst in the stamina section, the stamina page go well in detail about how stamina is a broad terme with many categories and explain how pain tolerance is one of them while energy exertion is another different one.

Would ya list em as "Below Average energy exertion, Superhuman pain tolerance" or just fuse them both and make it, I dunno, Above Average?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Would ya list em as "Below Average energy exertion, Superhuman pain tolerance" or just fuse them both and make it, I dunno, Above Average?

That...doesn't make sense.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

That...doesn't make sense.

I mean there are characters that get exhausted after doing a 30 meter walk but barely react to having half of their bones broken

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I mean there are characters that get exhausted after doing a 30 meter walk but barely react to having half of their bones broken

I usually associate feats like this with characters that have abilities like Toon Force, as Toon Force is one of the most inconsistent abilities on the wiki.

But this does raise a few questions most likey. Not too sure what would we do with this.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Would ya list em as "Below Average energy exertion, Superhuman pain tolerance" or just fuse them both and make it, I dunno, Above Average?

If the character have Superhuman pain tolerance then I don't really imagine a character having a below Average energy exertion, the only case that I can think of something like that would be a character with a time limit mechanic, like for example a character with a trabsformation that only last a minute, but I'm pretty sure that in those cases the characters have other higher energy exertion feats outside of the time limit thing, like for example how Asta can fight for a long time even though he have something like Devil Union that only last five minutes.

I mean there are characters that get exhausted after doing a 30 meter walk but barely react to having half of their bones broken

Would like to see an actual character who do that, because I'm pretty sure that is an insanely strange thing. Closest thing I can think similar to that would be op novel protagonist who reincarnated in weak bodies but those cases are only at the beginning of the novels and only last a short time until they train their current bodies to be something.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

So I saw the Mera profile and she indeed seem like a very rare case do to having a really rare gimmick/power, so she shouldn't be used as standard, that said however don't really think she is really below average since even I can get exhausted after some minutes fighting and I'm relatively speaking fit, (would need to know more about the fight to say if is really below average, like how much she did in the fight and things like that), in her specific case is probably better go with the note in the stamina page about just listing the feats instead of focus in give a rating.

 

[DemonicDude]

• If immense pain is not an ability then I'd like to copy past his pain potence scans into his stamina section. If Kicking people on the head isn't pressure point knock out then then fine remove it.
• This is okada's finisher. Kenny is copying it and adding his own version in the power mimicary clip. He CAN COPY FINISHERS. It's basically basic copying move like we see in WWE aka Cena using RKO

So Kenny Omega in the debates get's questioned at that his X ability is not combat usable or Y ability is not combat usable. Goal is to make sure everything is crystal clear
We will go over the questionable abilities one by one:
1-Teleportation or Time Travel

• Teleportation or Time Travel (As a cyborg Kenny possess all these abilities above). Kenny is a living Terminator parody it's part of his shitck. What I want is:
• A- Whether it's Teleporation or Time travel decide that
• B- It's combat usable or not ?

Considering the fact he's a terminator parody I'll agree with Time Travel.

(Asked by Pikaman here to remove those abilities that are not combat usable. However on vsbattle characters which have Non-Combat abilities stays on their profile and it's also an intregal part of his character. If you remove his power then you are not accepting his entire Terminator character to begin with). Furthermore (Character such as DEMON BALOR teleporation get's used in the VERSUS Debates and argument from Finn Balor guy is One is far more easily argued as combat applicable than the other

(Here is the video of BALOR using teleportation (Video), As you can see light goes out and then he appears so
A-He's not using in combat fights
B-He's not using it without Light Manipulation (Which indicates that it might simply be a Light Manupilation trick)
C-Then it's far different from Kenny's who infront of our eyes disappear and reappear which is a clear cut Teleporation or Time Travel (And since he used to get to a bunch of thugs and beat them this should count as a active combat ability even if it's used one)

Ability Addition:

Resistance to Minor Fear Incudement: (Omega defeated the likes of Minoru Suzuki who is the originator of MMA & founder the Pancrase martial arts Promotion and an NJPW legend feared by everyone in the company). Went through electro shock therapy and PST trauma content (Scan Video)

 

[DemonicDude]

There is no justification listed,
though I suppose this is the look on target of his eye, which isn't homing attack and at much could be classified as enhanced senses (should also be noted that is unknow how actually effective the look on target is since the only time is show is against normal dudes who were literally standing still).

Alien X
has no justification on half oh his abilites because they all shown in a single clip of a only one episode, Kenny powers are also shown once and it clearly says. In the short movie it can be seen it says TARGET LOCK

Lifting Strength comes from Chris Jericho which is self explained.

 

[Shmooply]

has no justification on half oh his abilites because they all shown in a single clip of a only one episode, Kenny powers are also shown once and it clearly says. In the short movie it can be seen it says TARGET LOCK

Wouldn't it be more convenient to list it all under one bullet point, then?

 

[DemonicDude]

I'll write description of each, Other then that I have given explaination to everything above.

• His LS comes directly from Jericho (It's been a while since i've since Jericho's page whether his LS in present day time is Class 5 or Superhuman you guys can check and adjust Kenny's accordinly
• It doesn't matter if Kenny's V-Trigger is treated as Pressure Points or it is not. Thing is you can go ahead and remove the Pressure Point it doesn't really effect him much, Because basic function of V-Trigger is to stun and knock out enemies which it proved in the close quarter combat CQC against Wrestling and MMA Legends all it takes it one. (So it doesn't really matter whether we call it pressure point or not cause no matter which Versus Debate Kenny is chosen to be on, Once it hits its's INDEED going to stun/knock enemies nonetheless. It's it basic function.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I'll write description of each, Other then that I have given explaination to everything above.

• His LS comes directly from Jericho (It's been a while since i've since Jericho's page whether his LS in present day time is Class 5 or Superhuman you guys can check and adjust Kenny's accordinly
• It doesn't matter if Kenny's V-Trigger is treated as Pressure Points or it is not. Thing is you can go ahead and remove the Pressure Point it doesn't really effect him much, Because basic function of V-Trigger is to stun and knock out enemies which it proved in the close quarter combat CQC against Wrestling and MMA Legends all it takes it one. (So it doesn't really matter whether we call it pressure point or not cause no matter which Versus Debate Kenny is chosen to be on, Once it hits its's INDEED going to stun/knock enemies nonetheless. It's it basic function.

pop Just checked Jericho's profile, and saw that his lifting strength is At Least Athletic Human, possibly Peak Human. Is it possible that Jericho's LS was much higher in the past, but was downgraded, and everybody just forgot to change Kenny's LS?

Well, I am neutral on the subject of pressure points, I am not 100% sure if Kenny's is going to always have its stun/knock enemies due to how VB works here. Like there are people who might scale much higher to their AP value and have a higher AP chain than Kenny's, people who amp themselves (granted, this is a higher tier problem and not one in the 9-Bs where Kenny is in), or even those who have immense endurance & stamina (+ supernatural willpower) that can potentially handle V-Trigger (but those people are rare.)

Alien X
has no justification on half oh his abilites because they all shown in a single clip of a only one episode, Kenny powers are also shown once and it clearly says. In the short movie it can be seen it says TARGET LOCK

Lifting Strength comes from Chris Jericho which is self explained.

Ye, you have a good point here, DD.


Not sure what else to say here, so I'll lurk for now.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

pop Just checked Jericho's profile, and saw that his lifting strength is At Least Athletic Human, possibly Peak Human. Is it possible that Jericho's LS was much higher in the past, but was downgraded, and everybody just forgot to change Kenny's LS?

You are 100% correct

 

[DemonicDude]

I have added the description for all abilities,
V-Trigger being a direct head damaging move should cause the same effect in versus debates as it does in the actual combat. What else needs to be removed or not you people can decide

The first scan is normal dodging, by that logic almost all profiles of characters who can fight would have analytical prediction. The second scan is not avaible so don't know what is supposed to be there, but unless is an actual legit analytical prediction feat (which I honestly doubt at least based in the description) and someone bring a replacement then should be revomed.

Kenny unlike most characters on vsb is a trained MMA Finger and the one who he's dodging moves in those clips is against a Karate Champion and MMA fighter, Kota Ibushi. If countering a karate champion in CQC (Close quaraters combat) counter as Analitical prediction so fine it stays if not then removing it would be fine.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Just saw this and I'm currently in phone so can't answer as much as I would like, so just gonna note that in no part of the op I mentioned the teleportation.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

DD went crazy here ngl.

 

[Pikaman]

(Asked by Pikaman here to remove those abilities that are not combat usable. However on vsbattle characters which have Non-Combat abilities stays on their profile and it's also an intregal part of his character. If you remove his power then you are not accepting his entire Terminator character to begin with). Furthermore (Character such as DEMON BALOR teleporation get's used in the VERSUS Debates and argument from Finn Balor guy is One is far more easily argued as combat applicable than the other

(Here is the video of BALOR using teleportation (Video), As you can see light goes out and then he appears so
A-He's not using in combat fights
B-He's not using it without Light Manipulation (Which indicates that it might simply be a Light Manupilation trick)

DD, if you’re going to twist my points and try to turn a Kenny downgrade into a Finn downgrade, I’d appreciate it if you could at least make me aware of the existence of the thread you’re doing it in first…

I NEVER argued for the removal of abilities because they are “non-combat applicable”, obviously NCA abilities should still be added to pages. I campaigned for the removal of abilities Kenny just blatantly doesn’t possess, combat or not, including Pressure Points and Analytical Prediction.

The Demon’s teleportation is combat applicable, I proved that in Finn Vs Chisato. I have no issues with Kenny having teleportation on his page, just with it being used in Vs Threads when it’s never been used in combat.

 

[Pikaman]

Anyways agree with everything in the actual thread

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Kenny unlike most characters on vsb is a trained MMA Finger and the one who he's dodging moves in those clips is against a Karate Champion and MMA fighter, Kota Ibushi. If countering a karate champion in CQC (Close quaraters combat) counter as Analitical prediction so fine it stays if not then removing it would be fine.

Tbf, constantly dodging attacks from a Karate Champion + MMA fighter is never usually Analytical Predict unless stated and/or implied to be so.

This just seems like very, very good skill dodging at best. If you can find statements of commentary saying that Kenny and Kota were "reading" each other's movements, then that'll be a perfect example of Analytical Predict.

 

[Pikaman]

If you can find statements of commentary saying that Kenny and Kota were "reading" each other's movements, then that'll be a perfect example of Analytical Predict.

You’d still need more proof than that lmao

 

[RandomGuy2345]

You’d still need more proof than that lmao

Nah. I'm pretty sure there were characters that had Analytical Prediction because they were able to read their opponent's movements and quickly countered them. It's pretty basic, but it's still AP.

You can ask a staff member or someone else who's knowledgeable if you disagree.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

As a note, even if that is actually accepted as analytical prediction (which honestly shouldn't be since that is the basic prediction that all actually fighters have) and get added to a profile, don't word it like some sort of super broken analytical prediction and treat it in debates like god level skill please (like how was treated in Kenny debates), that would be really dumb and dishonest

 

[RandomGuy2345]

As a note, even if that is actually accepted as analytical prediction (which honestly shouldn't be since that is the basic prediction that all actually fighters have) and get added to a profile, don't word it like some sort of super broken analytical prediction and treat it in debates like god level skill please (like how was treated in Kenny debates), that would be really dumb and dishonest

I already said it was basic ass Analytical Prediction, but it's still AP at the end of the day.

Even then, if DD can't find statements that outright state and/or imply that it's AP, then the ability has to get removed from his profile.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Bumpity

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Now I'm home so guess could respond to some of the early messages from DD

• If immense pain is not an ability then I'd like to copy past his pain potence scans into his stamina section. If Kicking people on the head isn't pressure point knock out then then fine remove it.
• This is okada's finisher. Kenny is copying it and adding his own version in the power mimicary clip. He CAN COPY FINISHERS. It's basically basic copying move like we see in WWE aka Cena using RKO

Indeed pain tolerances isn't an ability so the correct thing to do is put those feats in the stamina section.

Ok, in that case then that clip should also be added to the justification in the Okada part so people can see the move that he imitates. However, as I stated the moves that he imitated aren't really complex and he only used them in specific moments when his opponent was stunned and/or exhausted, so my suggestion still stand to change it to:

• Minor Technique Mimicry (Imitated Okada's finisher and used it against him when he was stunned. Also iitated the lariat of John Moxley's and used it to finish his opponent when he was stunned)

So Kenny Omega in the debates get's questioned at that his X ability is not combat usable or Y ability is not combat usable. Goal is to make sure everything is crystal clear
We will go over the questionable abilities one by one:
1-Teleportation or Time Travel

• Teleportation or Time Travel (As a cyborg Kenny possess all these abilities above). Kenny is a living Terminator parody it's part of his shitck. What I want is:
• A- Whether it's Teleporation or Time travel decide that
• B- It's combat usable or not ?

Considering the fact he's a terminator parody I'll agree with Time Travel.

(Asked by Pikaman here to remove those abilities that are not combat usable. However on vsbattle characters which have Non-Combat abilities stays on their profile and it's also an intregal part of his character. If you remove his power then you are not accepting his entire Terminator character to begin with). Furthermore (Character such as DEMON BALOR teleporation get's used in the VERSUS Debates and argument from Finn Balor guy is One is far more easily argued as combat applicable than the other

(Here is the video of BALOR using teleportation (Video), As you can see light goes out and then he appears so
A-He's not using in combat fights
B-He's not using it without Light Manipulation (Which indicates that it might simply be a Light Manupilation trick)
C-Then it's far different from Kenny's who infront of our eyes disappear and reappear which is a clear cut Teleporation or Time Travel (And since he used to get to a bunch of thugs and beat them this should count as a active combat ability even if it's used one)

In no part of the op or the crt I questioned the teleportartion (or time travel since is a parody to Terminator) or asked to change it, he indeed have that so there is absolutely nothing wrong with listing said thing in his profile.

That said however, is really something dishonest try to argue in a debate that said ability is combat applicable because in no video from all the clips I have see Kenny used that in middle of combat and I'm also pretty sure there is no instance of him using that in a combat scenario, and no, using it once to teleport to this era (he really just did a fancy entrance) and coincidentally appear in fron of people that he just decided to beat in a whim isn't an argument about the ability be combat applicable. If you want to argue about the ability being combat applicable then bring scenes of him using that in middle of a combat, otherwise isn't a combat applicable ability by simply virtue of Kenny never using it in combat.

Resistance to Fear Incudement: (Omega defeated the likes of Minoru Suzuki who is the originator of MMA & founder the Pancrase martial arts Promotion and an NJPW legend feared by everyone in the company). Went through electro shock therapy and PST trauma content (Scan Video)

Have anyone be scared of Suzukiwithout knowing about him? About the great exploits he did? Because one can easily feel emotions toward people if they know that said person have a great reputation and have done amazing things, a practical example very easy to get, if in a closed space you suddenly have in front of you someone like Mike Tyson you probably will feel something, be it nervouness, admiration or even fear (in the case that he appear with an angry face or a look like as if he want to beat you), if in said situation you don't know about him then you probably wouldn't feel much (though do to how buffed he is it's possible that you could still feel something even if you don't know about Mike Tyson, in which case change the example to someone visually less intimidating but more intimidating if you know about their history, like any serial killer, the effect will be the same of you getting nervious and scared).

The second thing is just plain dumb, they just went to a horror attraction, under no way that is ground to give someone resistance to fear at all.

Alien X
has no justification on half oh his abilites because they all shown in a single clip of a only one episode, Kenny powers are also shown once and it clearly says. In the short movie it can be seen it says TARGET LOCK

Lifting Strength comes from Chris Jericho which is self explained.

Abilitites without justification isn't really something commendable to do, even more so when you can put them together in the same bullet point as others profiles with bullet point format do.

The thing also shouldn't really link to the Homing Attack page since it isn't a homing projectile, which is why I suggested maybe change it to Enhanced Senses, another alternative now that I think about it could be list it as Unconventional while still linking to the Homing Attack page, also would be good to note how is unknow the effectivity of the target lock since the only instance of the ability showed is against a standing still normal dude and in his fights many times he was unable to hit his opponents so it isn't a broken thing as you tried to make it appear in the debates.

Chris Jericho LS is this:

Lifting Strength: At least Athletic Human, possibly Peak Human (Superior to the likes of Ricochet, who was able to perform a fallaway slam to Ivar, who weighs 304 pounds [138KG])

Which don't reach Peak Human and instead is just Athletic Human since that cover from the range from 120kg to 227kg.

• It doesn't matter if Kenny's V-Trigger is treated as Pressure Points or it is not. Thing is you can go ahead and remove the Pressure Point it doesn't really effect him much, Because basic function of V-Trigger is to stun and knock out enemies which it proved in the close quarter combat CQC against Wrestling and MMA Legends all it takes it one. (So it doesn't really matter whether we call it pressure point or not cause no matter which Versus Debate Kenny is chosen to be on, Once it hits its's INDEED going to stun/knock enemies nonetheless. It's it basic function.

About this, is normal irl logic that people can get stunned if they get hit in the head, specially if they receive a big impact like the kicks that Kenny used, that don't magically mean that the V-Trigger is far stronger that his other attacks and just mean that as real humans the wrestlers get affected by this type of things, so don't really expect it having the same effect in versus matches, specially against anime, manga, novel or game characters since those most of the time don't really follow irl logic as much as they should.

I have added the description for all abilities,
V-Trigger being a direct head damaging move should cause the same effect in versus debates as it does in the actual combat. What else needs to be removed or not you people can decide



Kenny unlike most characters on vsb is a trained MMA Finger and the one who he's dodging moves in those clips is against a Karate Champion and MMA fighter, Kota Ibushi. If countering a karate champion in CQC (Close quaraters combat) counter as Analitical prediction so fine it stays if not then removing it would be fine.

You can't just edit the profile and change things like that, the crt first need to be approved by staff members

Uuhh, you know that a good chunk of profiles (like a great percentage of the current total profiles in the wiki) are trained fighters with most of the time titles like champions or things above that right? That don't mean we just give them and anyone who ever fought against them analytical predicton, analytical prediction isn't an ability handled like that.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

About this, is normal irl logic that people can get stunned if they get hit in the head, specially if they receive a big impact like the kicks that Kenny used, that don't magically mean that the V-Trigger is far stronger that his other attacks and just mean that as real humans the wrestlers get affected by this type of things, so don't really expect it having the same effect in versus matches, specially against anime, manga, novel or game characters since those most of the time don't really follow irl logic as much as they should.

Umm...no.

Finishers in Pro Wrestling do far more damage than a wrestler's normal moves. We've been over this many, many times.

 

[DemonicDude]

Now I'm home so guess could respond to some of the early messages from DD

Indeed pain tolerances isn't an ability so the correct thing to do is put those feats in the stamina section.

Ok, in that case then that clip should also be added to the justification in the Okada part so people can see the move that he imitates. However, as I stated the moves that he imitated aren't really complex and he only used them in specific moments when his opponent was stunned and/or exhausted, so my suggestion still stand to change it to:

What type of complex moves are you looking for ?
I'm asking this is because literally his copying moves is same as any other WWE or any wrestler in general copy moves

• Here is Kenny paying tribute to the creator of the Bullet Club Finn balor using his Slinge Blade (video) As well as using Styles Clash (video) and using Piledriver which drops people on the head (video) which is also an Okada's move so yes his Power Mimicary is literally the same as any other wrestler in the verse of Professional wrestling.

That said however, is really something dishonest try to argue in a debate that said ability is combat applicable because in no video from all the clips I have see Kenny used that in middle of combat and I'm also pretty sure there is no instance of him using that in a combat scenario, and no, using it once to teleport to this era (he really just did a fancy entrance) and coincidentally appear in fron of people that he just decided to beat in a whim isn't an argument about the ability be combat applicable. If you want to argue about the ability being combat applicable then bring scenes of him using that in middle of a combat, otherwise isn't a combat applicable ability by simply virtue of Kenny never using it in combat.

I thought it would be allowed because I saw a character who also has never shown an ability in the combat but his species does so it's verse user gave him all those here. I was mis informed by looking at these users.

You can't just edit the profile and change things like that, the crt first need to be approved by staff members

Yes and that's what we are doing, I have FIXED his LS scaling to Jericho (It was outdated). I have every right to edit pages and FIX them I did not break any rules. If you have any issue with Jericho's LS then discusses it here
Whatever get's accepted here then get's put on the PROFILE.

Have anyone be scared of Suzukiwithout knowing about him? About the great exploits he did? Because one can easily feel emotions toward people if they know that said person have a great reputation and have done amazing things, a practical example very easy to get, if in a closed space you suddenly have in front of you someone like Mike Tyson you probably will feel something, be it nervouness, admiration or even fear (in the case that he appear with an angry face or a look like as if he want to beat you), if in said situation you don't know about him then you probably wouldn't feel much (though do to how buffed he is it's possible that you could still feel something even if you don't know about Mike Tyson, in which case change the example to someone visually less intimidating but more intimidating if you know about their history, like any serial killer, the effect will be the same of you getting nervious and scared).

In NJPW it is stated by commentary that when trainers at the performance centers hears the name minoru suzuki they all get scared and this is seen in the ring countless time it's part of his character this is because he plays the role of a ****** and horrible person. No it is not because of him being a dangerous fighter like Mike Tyson it's because he's decribed as scary. Basically everyone who fights him seems intimidated and along with the other PTSD Scan (I'm asking for MINOR fear inducement resistance). I literally gave you those Reddit post becuse I do NOT OWN NJPW Library content so I can go back and see all the previous matches of his, His indimiating and fear factor is part of his character against no matter who he's facing. It's NOT straight up Fear power that's why i'm asking for minor fear inducement.

The second thing is just plain dumb, they just went to a horror attraction, under no way that is ground to give someone resistance to fear at all.

But he went through a legit Trauama in the scan he names them all (Electro therapy, Blinking lights etc those causes effects ya know in real life) Did you even saw the scan VIDEO.

About this, is normal irl logic that people can get stunned if they get hit in the head, specially if they receive a big impact like the kicks that Kenny used, that don't magically mean that the V-Trigger is far stronger that his other attacks

So I guess Undertaker's Tombstone piledriver is also not stronger than Undertaker's regular body slam or punches then....

 

[DemonicDude]

Didn't really plan on commenting more but I guess maybe I will (kinda tired of rexplaining the whole verse over and over)

• Analytical Prediction: I found this video of Kenny vs Kota both countering each, Commentary mentions Kenny scouted Kota's attack (Video). Both are using heavy mma open palm strikes and kicks etc.
  kota ibushi is Kenny's trainer. As well as a Boxer+karate champion+MMA fighter+ Wrestler his attacks revolves around fast paced Karate Strikes and Roundhouse kicks (video) so he's not some everyday wrestler not in the slightest. They know what MMA and Boxing move both prosseses.
  
  
• Supernatural Willpower: Trauma (Scan Video) in the pat 3 of the link.
  High speed blinking light alone gives seizures never mind the electro therapy. Basically electro therapy is a type shock treatment it effects the heart, nerves and muscles all this + The supporting evidence for supernatural willpower would be him versus jericho. Kenny can fight even after having every ounce of energy being shredded. He was fine since he had a World Champion match in the stadium just next week with no injuries or anything.
  Basically electro therapy is a type shock treatment it effects the heart, nerves and muscles.
  
  
• Resistance to minor Fear Inducement: Via overcoming Suzuki intimidating in the combat.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Umm...no.

Finishers in Pro Wrestling do far more damage than a wrestler's normal moves. We've been over this many, many times.

That is probably wrong then, because at least in this case Kenny could had got the same result if he used other moves as long he still violently hit the head of his enemies.

What type of complex moves are you looking for ?
I'm asking this is because literally his copying moves is same as any other WWE or any wrestler in general copy moves

• Here is Kenny paying tribute to the creator of the Bullet Club Finn balor using his Slinge Blade (video) As well as using Styles Clash (video) and using Piledriver which drops people on the head (video) which is also an Okada's move so yes his Power Mimicary is literally the same as any other wrestler in the verse of Professional wrestling.

Things that are actually hard to imitate? Like for example the Okada thing from the clip I saw is something that even I or you could probably replicate if we try, the John lariat though not complex we probably couldn't do it but that would be more because we aren't accustomed to ring strings so to someone accustomed to them like a pro wrestler pull that shouldn't be really hard.

Then WWE have bad technique mimicry? Don't know what more to say, if the things that they imitate in specific moments are specific moves without much complexity then is a basic technique mimicry hence why I would like to add the Minor part to not create misunderstandings that they are able to copy entire fighting styles or complex techniques like what some people argue in vs threads.

I thought it would be allowed because I saw a character who also has never shown an ability in the combat but his species does so it's verse user gave him all those here. I was mis informed by looking at these users.

I mean, in the case that an entire species do something in combat then logically speaking is an reasonable assumption that x individual of said species will also do so in combat or at the very least be able to do it if wanted.

Yes and that's what we are doing, I have FIXED his LS scaling to Jericho (It was outdated). I have every right to edit pages and FIX them I did not break any rules. If you have any issue with Jericho's LS then discusses it here
Whatever get's accepted here then get's put on the PROFILE.

I was talking more so about the adding justification to abilitites, in this case that wouldn't be necessary because all of the cyborg abilitites can be put together in the same bullet point instead of repeat them various times.

In NJPW it is stated by commentary that when trainers at the performance centers hears the name minoru suzuki they all get scared and this is seen in the ring countless time it's part of his character this is because he plays the role of a ****** and horrible person. No it is not because of him being a dangerous fighter like Mike Tyson it's because he's decribed as scary. Basically everyone who fights him seems intimidated and along with the other PTSD Scan (I'm asking for MINOR fear inducement resistance). I literally gave you those Reddit post becuse I do NOT OWN NJPW Library content so I can go back and see all the previous matches of his, His indimiating and fear factor is part of his character against no matter who he's facing. It's NOT straight up Fear power that's why i'm asking for minor fear inducement.

You yourself said it, is because his reputation and know about his character that people fear him, put a completely random person who don't know anything about him in front of him to see if there is the same effect because I onestly doubt it.

Not all charactsers that can scare others have fear manip and not all characters who don't get scared have resistance to fear manip, not everything is an ability in the world.

But he went through a legit Trauama in the scan he names them all (Electro therapy, Blinking lights etc those causes effects ya know in real life) Did you even saw the scan VIDEO.

... You can't be serious...... First of all, the thing is quite literally just a real horror attraction, there is absolutely nothing there that would give someone resistance to fear manip.

Second (can't believe that I really need to explain this but well), the reason of why those things happened to some people when looking at the pokemon episode is because there is a real life condition called EPILEPSY, specifically speaking in this situation the chapter triggered those with Photosensitive epilepsy, if you read the article that you yourself send you can see how is stated:

According to Kotaku, the reason so many people were affected was because about 1 in 4000 people can suffer photosensitive seizures and with nearly four million people watching the show in Japan, more would likely be affected.

So unless Kenny have Photosensitive epilepsy, which I seriously doubt because otherwise no one would have allowed him to go, he wasn't in danger to suffer those effects.

Also, do to law people need to have warnings regarding this type of things so the horror attraction isn't even special for having said warning. So please stop with this train of logic to give a character something, because is a quite ignorant argument that ignore how the world work.

So I guess Undertaker's Tombstone piledriver is also not stronger than Undertaker's regular body slam or punches then....

Don't really know about Undertaker and his finisher, but if is supposed to be something like Kenny just violently kicking tired dudes in the head to stun them then definitely isn't a move that need a special mention in the ap section.

Didn't really plan on commenting more but I guess maybe I will (kinda tired of rexplaining the whole verse over and over)

• Analytical Prediction: I found this video of Kenny vs Kota both countering each, Commentary mentions Kenny scouted Kota's attack (Video). Both are using heavy mma open palm strikes and kicks etc.
  kota ibushi is Kenny's trainer. As well as a Boxer+karate champion+MMA fighter+ Wrestler his attacks revolves around fast paced Karate Strikes and Roundhouse kicks (video) so he's not some everyday wrestler not in the slightest. They know what MMA and Boxing move both prosseses.

So you are acknowledging that the reason to why they can dodge each other moves like that is because they not only know each other and have quite the close relaptionship but also are very familiar with the other fighting style? Then why is this supposed to be added to the profile as analytical prediction? If they are quite accustomed to it then they really aren't analyzing and predicting things in a way that should grant analytical prediction.

• Supernatural Willpower: Trauma (Scan Video) in the pat 3 of the link.
  High speed blinking light alone gives seizures never mind the electro therapy. Basically electro therapy is a type shock treatment it effects the heart, nerves and muscles all this + The supporting evidence for supernatural willpower would be him versus jericho. Kenny can fight even after having every ounce of energy being shredded. He was fine since he had a World Champion match in the stadium just next week with no injuries or anything.
  Basically electro therapy is a type shock treatment it effects the heart, nerves and muscles.

Is a ******* normal horror attraction dude, seriously stop with that, they aren't receiving the type of shock treatment that would really have bad effects in people because then it wouldn't be commercial (like Kenny itself also comment how is low levels of electricity in the warnings, if they wanted to have harmful effects on people they would instead use high discharges, so this is just to give stimulus to people instead of permanently affect them, which is normal considering how this is an attraction with the purpose of enternain people).

The second thing I also don't think give supernatural willpower but you can see if a staff accept it as that.

• Resistance to minor Fear Inducement: Via overcoming Suzuki intimidating in the combat.

No, they get intimidated because they know him, not because he have some sort of fear aura or something like that, if that was the case then please share an instance of someone who don't know him getting scared just by his presence.

 

[Pikaman]

That is probably wrong then, because at least in this case Kenny could had got the same result if he used other moves as long he still violently hit the head of his enemies.

No, Random’s right. Finishers are an in-verse mechanic where each character has a “signature” move which does far more damage than their basic manoeuvres. The V-Trigger is Kenny’s finisher.