MinatoSparkle
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?? This Naruto already befriend Kurama and Amaterasu will not work bc of cloakGenjutsu Amaterasu gg
Naruto can literally block Amaterasu with the Basic Red Kyūbi Chakra.Genjutsu Amaterasu gg
Gives him time to break out, but they'll still be stopped in their tracks. Look at Killer Bee?? This Naruto already befriend Kurama
This is the same Naruto that got burned by regular Lava Style. This isn't the Kurama version 1 cloak, it has no feats of resisting Amaterasu or heat of that magnitude.Amaterasu will not work bc of cloak
Can this Naruto shoot out Version 1 cloaks like he usually does? That's out of character for him.Naruto can literally block Amaterasu with the Basic Red Kyūbi Chakra.
but why tho
Naruto can't do those that fast in kcm. And this is specifically kcm Naruto, not BM Naruto.Wouldn't Naruto just Spam the shit out of Rasenshuriken until he killed him knowing what Sasuke can do or god forbid just activate KCM2?
Also, Add Tags so people can find this easier.
noCould Naruto fully transform into Kurama mode/KCM2?
it's not much time. Gyuki could break Bee out of a genjutsu before Itachi could even hit Bee with fire style shuriken, and we know how fast his shuriken are.Gives him time to break out, but they'll still be stopped in their tracks. Look at Killer Bee
This is the same Naruto that got burned by regular Lava Style. This isn't the Kurama version 1 cloak, it has no feats of resisting Amaterasu or heat of that magnitude.
Can this Naruto shoot out Version 1 cloaks like he usually does? That's out of character for him.
Does that change your vote or...?Nvm then
Waiting for more argumentsDoes that change your vote or...?
Should I consider that inconclusive for now?Waiting for more arguments
Extremely thought out battle I’m impressedShould I consider that inconclusive for now?
And speaking of more arguments, I guess I'll give my thoughts too. This is a toughie, as they're portrayed as nearly equal. Naruto has more versatility chakra and probably more raw power with the rasenshuriken (although I guess you could argue the susanoo/amaterasu is stronger). Sasuke on the other hand probably has greater reaction speed given the fact that he protected Naruto with susanoo twice before Naruto protected himself/evaded, he has better defense, and he's more haxed, although his hax can be countered by Naruto.
Honestly I think it'd be hard for either to pull off a decisive victory. I might say Sasuke has a very slightly higher chance. He knows the rasenshuriken is dangerous and would be able to avoid it given his superior reactions, and if Naruto tried what he did against Pain, trapping Sasuke with shadow clones, he'd susanoo slash around himself and then jump over it. Maybe if Naruto does a feint where he knows Sasuke will do that and he places one more clone in hiding behind Sasuke and has that clone catch the rasenshuriken and throw it back (like against the 3rd Raikage). Then if Sasuke can dodge that one, just have Naruto play volley ball with it, or have even more clones do it, Sasuke will be overwhelmed eventually despite the speed gap, and will be forced to throw up the armored susanoo. At this point I expect Naruto will have thrown multiple rasenshuriken, so it'd probably completely shatter the susanoo. If the cell splitting thing works then it's gg but if the susanoo stopped that, Sasuke would be flat on his face like Itachi against Kirin, and Naruto would be tired, and after recovering they'd both charge in cqc, where Naruto is probably superior given the power of Kurama, although it'd probably be like the anime portion of Base Naruto vs Sasuke, where Naruto's hits do a lot of damage but Sasuke dodges most of it and retaliates. Sasuke might try amaterasu and while Naruto's getting rid of it, blitz him and attack, but Naruto would body flicker out of the way and then summon a thousand clones, which forces Sasuke to bust out the susanoo again to take care of them. They use what they did against Kurama, but stronger
Sasuke might try to counter by spamming enton kagatsuchi and susanoo slashes on the clones, but he wouldn't be able to get rid of enough of them to stop the barrage and his susanoo is ****** again. Sasuke would get frustrated and try an enton arrow, but if Kabuto could avoid an arrow, I'm sure mastered kcm Naruto could too despite it not being a reaction based mode. Then Sasuke pants and throws up an amaterasu circle around him to prevent Naruto from touching him. In response, Naruto forms a rasenshuriken again which Sasuke counters with a susanoo arrow. They're in a stalemate. Naruto's vastly superior reserves are helping him keep the advantage, but he's been using far more chakra taxing jutsu than Sasuke.
Sasuke tries to break the stalemate with EMS genjutsu, despite knowing that genjutsu can be broken out of by perfect jinchuriki. But it doesn't work, they exchange blows a couple more times, and Sasuke screams, "Over...and over. And over and over and over and over and over! Just give up already and let me cut you down!"
"Sorry. No can do. Because I'm your one and only friend."
Sasuke makes a legged susanoo and forms a chidori in its arm and Naruto forms a giant wind style rasengan as he's used too much chakra for rasenshuriken (although Kurama promises more soon). and they clash, causing a stalemate that knocks them both out of their forms, but then Kurama lends Naruto one last bit of chakra and Naruto smashes a giant rasengan into Sasuke, knocking him unconscious for at least one hour and winning over his allegiance.
So after some internal debating, I think Naruto would win with extremely high diff. Shadow clones and his immense reserves in addition to Kurama constantly giving him more is just too much for Sasuke.
Have I won a vote?Extremely thought out battle I’m impressed
Should I consider that inconclusive for now?
And speaking of more arguments, I guess I'll give my thoughts too. This is a toughie, as they're portrayed as nearly equal. Naruto has more versatility chakra and probably more raw power with the rasenshuriken (although I guess you could argue the susanoo/amaterasu is stronger). Sasuke on the other hand probably has greater reaction speed given the fact that he protected Naruto with susanoo twice before Naruto protected himself/evaded, he has better defense, and he's more haxed, although his hax can be countered by Naruto.
Honestly I think it'd be hard for either to pull off a decisive victory. I might say Sasuke has a very slightly higher chance. He knows the rasenshuriken is dangerous and would be able to avoid it given his superior reactions, and if Naruto tried what he did against Pain, trapping Sasuke with shadow clones, he'd susanoo slash around himself and then jump over it. Maybe if Naruto does a feint where he knows Sasuke will do that and he places one more clone in hiding behind Sasuke and has that clone catch the rasenshuriken and throw it back (like against the 3rd Raikage). Then if Sasuke can dodge that one, just have Naruto play volley ball with it, or have even more clones do it, Sasuke will be overwhelmed eventually despite the speed gap, and will be forced to throw up the armored susanoo. At this point I expect Naruto will have thrown multiple rasenshuriken, so it'd probably completely shatter the susanoo. If the cell splitting thing works then it's gg but if the susanoo stopped that, Sasuke would be flat on his face like Itachi against Kirin, and Naruto would be tired, and after recovering they'd both charge in cqc, where Naruto is probably superior given the power of Kurama, although it'd probably be like the anime portion of Base Naruto vs Sasuke, where Naruto's hits do a lot of damage but Sasuke dodges most of it and retaliates. Sasuke might try amaterasu and while Naruto's getting rid of it, blitz him and attack, but Naruto would body flicker out of the way and then summon a thousand clones, which forces Sasuke to bust out the susanoo again to take care of them. They use what they did against Kurama, but stronger
Sasuke might try to counter by spamming enton kagatsuchi and susanoo slashes on the clones, but he wouldn't be able to get rid of enough of them to stop the barrage and his susanoo is ****** again. Sasuke would get frustrated and try an enton arrow, but if Kabuto could avoid an arrow, I'm sure mastered kcm Naruto could too despite it not being a reaction based mode. Then Sasuke pants and throws up an amaterasu circle around him to prevent Naruto from touching him. In response, Naruto forms a rasenshuriken again which Sasuke counters with a susanoo arrow. They're in a stalemate. Naruto's vastly superior reserves are helping him keep the advantage, but he's been using far more chakra taxing jutsu than Sasuke.
Sasuke tries to break the stalemate with EMS genjutsu, despite knowing that genjutsu can be broken out of by perfect jinchuriki. But it doesn't work, they exchange blows a couple more times, and Sasuke screams, "Over...and over. And over and over and over and over and over! Just give up already and let me cut you down!"
"Sorry. No can do. Because I'm your one and only friend."
Sasuke makes a legged susanoo and forms a chidori in its arm and Naruto forms a giant wind style rasengan as he's used too much chakra for rasenshuriken (although Kurama promises more soon). and they clash, causing a stalemate that knocks them both out of their forms, but then Kurama lends Naruto one last bit of chakra and Naruto smashes a giant rasengan into Sasuke, knocking him unconscious for at least one hour and winning over his allegiance.
So after some internal debating, I think Naruto would win with extremely high diff. Shadow clones and his immense reserves in addition to Kurama constantly giving him more is just too much for Sasuke.
I don't think KCM Naruto can do anything to Humanoid Susanoo of this Sasuke.naruto has shown to be capable of fighting larger enemies consistently and has the abilities to overcome Susanoo's Durability
Sasuke can Genjutsu those toads and make them fight Naruto.Naruto can also just straight-up summon toads to fight for him or restrict Susano'os movements.
I forgot the exact moment, but wasn't Sasuke getting fluster or angry that Naruto had as much as he did, implying he was surpassing Sasuke or something? This is KCM2 with Sage mode btw.I don't think it makes sense from the story's point of view for this version of Naruto to be stronger than EMS Sasuke. Sasuke at that point had Humanoid Susanoo, as big as Kurama Avatar.
EMS Sasuke with Juugo's CM ~= BSM Naruto, if we downscale both 10x (cause of SM multipliers) BM Naruto should be equal to EMS Sasuke without Juugo.
BM Naruto>>>KCM.
Sasuke was more concerned about Naruto's fast progression, he never truly admitted being inferior. Although he admitted that he had less chakra.I forgot the exact moment, but wasn't Sasuke getting fluster or angry that Naruto had as much as he did, implying he was surpassing Sasuke or something?
The picture is of regular KCM without SM.This is KCM2 with Sage mode btw.
I was talking about the moment where Sasuke was getting angry at that particular Naruto, not the naruto in the OP.The picture is of regular KCM without SM.
EMS Sasuke also fought alongside KCM Naruto though, and they were treated as near equals. That fight is an outlier, as Sasuke received no power up other than Jugo's curse mark and some V1 Kurama chakra, which shouldn't be enough to make up for the massive difference between KCM and BSM, especially since Naruto has been given Minato's Kurama chakra.I don't think it makes sense from the story's point of view for this version of Naruto to be stronger than EMS Sasuke. Sasuke at that point had Humanoid Susanoo, as big as Kurama Avatar.
EMS Sasuke with Juugo's CM ~= BSM Naruto, if we downscale both 10x (cause of SM multipliers) BM Naruto should be equal to EMS Sasuke without Juugo.
BM Naruto>>>KCM.
Sasuke didn't use his most powerful technique, AKA Humanoid Susanoo.EMS Sasuke also fought alongside KCM Naruto though
Sasuke had EMS, you realize EMS is a big deal in Narutoverse, right? It's what made Madara unlock Perfect Susanoo.That fight is an outlier, as Sasuke received no power up other than Jugo's curse mark and some V1 Kurama chakra, which shouldn't be enough to make up for the massive difference between KCM and BSM, especially since Naruto has been given Minato's Kurama chakra.
And Naruto didn't use multi shadow clones.Sasuke didn't use his most powerful technique, AKA Humanoid Susanoo.
Sasuke had EMS, you realize EMS is a big deal in Narutoverse, right? It's what made Madara unlock Perfect Susanoo.
You can't disregard it by saying outlier either, that version of Sasuke could also use Majestic Attire which is Perfect Susanoo.
What??Sasuke didn't use his most powerful technique, AKA Humanoid Susanoo.
Sasuke had EMS, you realize EMS is a big deal in Narutoverse, right? It's what made Madara unlock Perfect Susanoo.
You can't disregard it by saying outlier either, that version of Sasuke could also use Majestic Attire which is Perfect Susanoo.
I mean their points are technically right, even if their conclusion is wrong.What??
Still my point still stand bc it’s doesn’t have a feat that make them stand apart from the legless Susano’oI mean it's a higher state of Susanoo, although the hands Sasuke made might be as durable as it, hard to say.
But he didn't use the legless susanoo either.Still my point still stand bc it’s doesn’t have a feat that make them stand apart from the legless Susano’o
He does hold an AP advantage in Susanoo, but a Rasenshuriken from a weaker Naruto did significant damage to The Third Raikage, who's beyond Gyuki level. I know Sasuke's Susanoo is strong, but is it really more durable than a tailed beast? Especially since specifically the PS was comapred to those?I'm going to personally go with Sasuke on this one, though with high difficulty more than likely.
Currently, Sasuke's base is scaled to KCM Naruto on the profiles (I don't personally agree with that, but it is what it is lol). This means that he holds a significant AP advantage with the Susano'o, especially the more advanced stages, as they are hefty amps to both his AP and durability as you all know. The Susano'o also offers great advantage in close quarters combat as it'll render all of Naruto's attempts to overwhelm Sasuke from multiple angles ineffective due to its nature as an omni-directional barrier.
It also offers amazing ranged options with its large blades, arrows, and Yasaka Magatama's, all of which can be spammed and clad in Amaterasu for extra power and damage. He can also enhance his defenses with Enton as well. The Susano'o is basically the perfect counter for Naruto's pincer attacks using clones, as it protects Sasuke omni-directionally and holds a significant AP/Dura advantage.
I think Amaterasu and Enton are also being overlooked heavily here. Naruto's ability to shed his chakra cloak that's been affected by Amaterasu is neat, but is not as infallible or invincible as some people think it is. It's a rather slow method, that only works against isolated and small scale Amaterasu attempts. It's far more in character for MS/EMS Sasuke to use Amarerasu and Enton more effectively in the form shields, spikes, magatamas, blades, arrows, and just generally more large scale and creative applications. If he's pierced or hit with any of these techniques it'll be all over for him. At best, the slow chakra shedding technique will save him momentarily, but it'll still create an opening for Sasuke to simply attack him again in that instance. And it's not like Naruto himself doesn't view Amaterasu as a threat at this stage, anyway. He clearly still thinks it's extremely dangerous, and rightfully so. AT WORST, it'll be a great pressuring mechanism for Sasuke that'll have Naruto on the defensive, which is bound to create some openings at the very least.
Genjutsu is also being severely underestimated here, IMO. Sure, it likely won't come down to it, but it's still an option at Sasuke's disposal that can create openings. Naruto's not inherently resistant, neither are any Jinchuriki actually. They can still fall pray to genjutsu, it's just that their Bijuu quickly snap them out of it. Sasuke is fully aware of this fact, and so I don't see him making the same mistake he did against Bee here. Instead, he could simply go inside Naruto's sub consciousness and simply put Kurama under genjutsu and suppress him, as he effortlessly did at the start of Shippuden.
"Why didn't Sasuke ever do this again, if it's so easy?", I hear you asking. WELL, PIS is a beautiful thing my friends, and Naruto is certainly no stranger to it.Sasuke is especially susceptible to it, as he never uses his Rinnegan or Sharingan hax to their fullest potential, but oh well.
The Rasenshuriken also won't be that effective IMO. Sasuke can protect himself with the Susano'o, which should be more than durable enough to tank it. It's also made of chakra, so I don't see it succumbing to the durability negating properties of the RS, as it lacks skin and cells for the RS to exploit with it's cellular sized blades.
Sasuke can also intercept the RS with his arrows, or with Enton, which will ironically be enhanced and magnified by the RS lol.
Another point that I think is worth mentioning is that Sasuke has an advantage in reaction speed, which was directly confirmed through their performance against Juubito. Couple this with Sasuke's Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan enhanced sight, reflexes, and precog, and I personally have a very hard time seeing Naruto pulling off any blitzes or surprise attacks. Everything he does will be perfectly seen, predicted, analyzed, and countered by Sasuke's superior reactions and sharingan abilities.
Naruto's summons are useful, but people forget that Sasuke has summons of his own. He can summon Garuda, his hawk, for extra mobility and flight, which is a great advantage that he can exploit. He can simply soar in the air and freely attempt to snipe Naruto with his arrows and Amaterasu.
More importantly, he has Aoda, a summon that's comparable to Manda, who's equal to or superior to Gamabunta and Gamakichi. Naruto has Ma and Pa as well, but it's not really in character for him to summon them at this stage. So yeah, when it comes to summons, Sasuke is not at any sort of disadvantage. If anything, he might have an advantage lol.
Finally, Naruto does obviously have incredible stamina, but I think people are forgetting that he doesn't have unlimited time in KCM. He often exhausted the form at multiple points during the war, especially when he uses chakra taxing techniques for extended periods of times, which we can all agree is exactly what he'll need to defeat Sasuke and penetrate his defenses. Naruto can't last forever here, and actually needs to be conservative with the spam if he wants to have any hope of victory. On the other hand, Sasuke has never been shown to be tired at any point since acquiring the EMS. He's just been freely abusing and spamming extremely taxing Dojutsu techniques and Jutsu such as Susano'o, Amaterasu, Enton, Chidori, and Kuchiyose without any ill-effects or repercussions. Admittedly, that's kinda the whole idea behind the EMS, so yeah lol. I don't see Sasuke gassing out here. Teen EMS Sasuke's stamina isn't as trash as his adult, God tier, counterpart, which is ironic.
I just believe Sasuke is perfectly suited to countering Naruto at this point, and that's why he gets my vote.
The Third Raikage outright tanked the Rasenshuriken. It's been stated repeatedly that the Rasenshuriken failed to affect or damage him, save for neutralizing his Raiton Armor and some visible cracks, due to his insane durability. Heck, the chapter is literally called "The Rasenshuriken Limit!!". Anyway, leaving all that aside, the feat isn't really taken into consideration on the profiles, seeing as how KCM Naruto is not 6-C, while the Raikage is. So this whole point is kinda moot, for the time being.He does hold an AP advantage in Susanoo, but a Rasenshuriken from a weaker Naruto did significant damage to The Third Raikage, who's beyond Gyuki level. I know Sasuke's Susanoo is strong, but is it really more durable than a tailed beast? Especially since specifically the PS was comapred to those?
Kabuto dodging him does not mean Naruto can. There's no correlation between the two.Those ranged options can be dodged. Sasuke may have greater reaction speed, but there's no evidence he has greater combat speed, especially since Kabuto could dodge his ranged weapons.
Ay was faster than that version of Sasuke, Naruto is not faster than this version of Naruto.It would be effective, but if Ay can dodge Amaterasu, it shouldn't hit Naruto. It'll just pressure him into constantly keeping on the move. And he can run longer than Sasuke can shoot.
It doesn't matter. Kurama is susceptible to high level Sharingan Genjutsu, which Sasuke happens to be quite good at using.He could do that to sealed bubbly chakra of Kurama, but there's no evidence he can do that to the fully awakened Kurama. It's still wind based chakra blades. That's powerful stuff.
It certainly is when he's already as fast as Naruto, and has literal precog, info analysis, and enhanced sight on top of it.Yeah, the EMS will help, but reaction speed isn't the be all end all, much as my Minato stanning might make one think of me.
Naruto never spams Rasenshurikens like that, and if he does, he'll just be asking to run out of KCM.He won't summon. He knows they'll just be Amaterasud. And he'll use rasenshuriken/massive rasengan spam against the summons.
Even BM has a time limit. He can't stay in KCM forever, especially not when he's spamming so many techniques continuously. Sure, he can recharge it pretty quickly, to be frank, I don't think base Naruto will last ten seconds against EMS Sasuke, so he won't be able to recharge in time.That was because he didn't have Kurama's cooperation. But now he has access to all of Kurama's chakra, just in a weaker form. And he stayed in KCM for quite a while, and it can constantly recharge. In fact, his mastered variant of it didn't run out until he tried using BM. Also that's a no limits fallacy for Sasuke. Anyways, Sasuke had times to rest (talking to the Hokage and watching Naruto and Minato fight), and was given chakra by Naruto too. Also Adult Sasuke uses much more chakra draining jutsu, that's why he runs out quicker.