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GIl FRA.
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Karna vs Gilgamesh
- Thread starter DragonEmperor23
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There be now seven votes in favor of Gil, since there are two incon votes grace period has begun 10 hours ago.
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has this been requested or added?
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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It wasn't. I've got it though.
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im right here my take for Gilgamesh FRA.
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bump, someone add pls
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Put it on the request thread. its already on Karna's profile
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k
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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^^^ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
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Shouldn't the Gil's chains also be affected by 1/10th damage reduction from the Armor? This could mean he can break easily from the chains.
And Karna does has Brahmastra kundala to kill even when he is restrained. Single shot could prove fatal or even kill Gil.
And Karna does has Brahmastra kundala to kill even when he is restrained. Single shot could prove fatal or even kill Gil.
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Enkiddu doesn't do damage and BK requires him to use his spear, Brahmastra is the eye beam which Gil can still block with auto defensors and shields at a whim.
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That doesn't mean he can't break it with weapons like Brahmastra or even break it physicallyAnonymousBlank said:
Also Are we giving free chain use? Hit from Vasavi Shakti will also lead to gil's Death.
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Karna is not leading with VS, Gil has absolutely no qualms leading with Enkidu against a demigod as powerful as Karna. Karna doesn't have the raw strength to break the chains when they are boosted by his divinity. Using Brahmastra is pretty ooc seeing as Karna is reluctant to use MB(F) when he was impaled/pinned by Kazikli Bey.
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Why are we assuming Gil leading with the chains? If Gil is given the demigod info what will stop Karna from using VS against a literal God or even Brahmastra Kundala? Also Strength isn't required Brahmastra can break it. And most of Karna's opponent weren't that wororthy to use his trump card. He can and will in this fight. EDIT: I thought Karna had an advantage over Gil in terms of Stat and has actual skill unlike Emiya. Shouldn't this be in his favour?AnonymousBlank said:
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Gil isn't being goven info tho. Even when he turns off SNI, Gil still has good clairvoyance and is, believe it or not, very smart. All he needs to do is look at Karna and he will know who he is. Gil will also get serious against the likes of Karna.
Gil isn't a god.
Karna isn't using Brahmastra, BK or VS unless his weaker techs fail first, you can see this in every fight he has in Apocrypha. Uses skill first, then MBF, then Brahmastra, then BK, and then VS.
Karna isn't using Brahmastra on his restraints.
Most of his opponents got screwed by his basic stuff. He only goes for higher stuff when the previous methods fail. See his fight against Sieg, he only uses VS because Balmung is powerful enough to deflect his BK.
He can win, yes, but he is not taking the majority.
Karna has an advantage in skill (stats is only when swinging his spear) but it won't come down to that. Gil spams from the very beginning which prevents Karna from closing the distance while Enkidu restrains him Gil proceeds to skewer him ftw. Off the top of my head, the only people who have ever closed the distance with Gil are Enkidu, Shirou and Saber. The first two hard counter his GoB and the latter didn't actually have to deal with spam when she did close it, just Ea which she had Avalon for and Gil couldn't see her until she was in his face.
Edit: And Gil won this a while back so ...
Gil isn't a god.
Karna isn't using Brahmastra, BK or VS unless his weaker techs fail first, you can see this in every fight he has in Apocrypha. Uses skill first, then MBF, then Brahmastra, then BK, and then VS.
Karna isn't using Brahmastra on his restraints.
Most of his opponents got screwed by his basic stuff. He only goes for higher stuff when the previous methods fail. See his fight against Sieg, he only uses VS because Balmung is powerful enough to deflect his BK.
He can win, yes, but he is not taking the majority.
Karna has an advantage in skill (stats is only when swinging his spear) but it won't come down to that. Gil spams from the very beginning which prevents Karna from closing the distance while Enkidu restrains him Gil proceeds to skewer him ftw. Off the top of my head, the only people who have ever closed the distance with Gil are Enkidu, Shirou and Saber. The first two hard counter his GoB and the latter didn't actually have to deal with spam when she did close it, just Ea which she had Avalon for and Gil couldn't see her until she was in his face.
Edit: And Gil won this a while back so ...
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Clairvoyance is dependent on fact that he uses the phantasm.AnonymousBlank said:
Karna's skill will allow him to see Gil is god beforehand. than he is a dead man. As for Gil not being God claim, he more than 2/3rd God.
In that fight Balmung used Command Seals, not so impressive. Heck Gil will be forced to use A++ phantasm just to harm Karna since anything below that won't harm him at all. Finally Enkidu hasn't been shown to be unbreakable, Brahmastra can break portion of the chain Freeing karna immediately, it's not like Gil actually can kill him by the time he frees him. You also have to take into account Karna's Agility.
I am pretty sure they said the fight ended in tie and Author went on to state that Full powered Karna is stronger than /on par with Gil so.....
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Gil already has passive Clairvoyance without SNI which he will turn on against the like of Karna because he actually needs to be serious for this.
Skill doesn't let you see anything. You are trying to argue Karna will be able to learn Gil is something (that he isn't) before Gil will realise he is a fighting a demigod (when he has Clairvoyance). Gil is only two thirds god meaning he is not a god.
Balmung was only amped at the end against VS, it was deflecting BK long before that. Karna will be harmed by anything Gil throws at him. KK is a DR armor not a "must be this cool to ride" NP like GH.
No one said Enkidu was unbreakable. Karna simply lacks the strength to break it and he is not aiming a nuke at himself. Heracles has the same agility and was amped by ME and he was still caught in seconds.
The quote you are thinking of said Karna was in the same tier as Gil not that he was equal to or stronger. Gil has and always will be Nasu's strongest Servant until he comes out and says otherwise.
Skill doesn't let you see anything. You are trying to argue Karna will be able to learn Gil is something (that he isn't) before Gil will realise he is a fighting a demigod (when he has Clairvoyance). Gil is only two thirds god meaning he is not a god.
Balmung was only amped at the end against VS, it was deflecting BK long before that. Karna will be harmed by anything Gil throws at him. KK is a DR armor not a "must be this cool to ride" NP like GH.
No one said Enkidu was unbreakable. Karna simply lacks the strength to break it and he is not aiming a nuke at himself. Heracles has the same agility and was amped by ME and he was still caught in seconds.
The quote you are thinking of said Karna was in the same tier as Gil not that he was equal to or stronger. Gil has and always will be Nasu's strongest Servant until he comes out and says otherwise.
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Passive clairvoyance? in the myths? If he did have it he wouldn't have struggled against Emiya.AnonymousBlank said:
Karna completely discerned our Sieg in a single look, same could be easily said for Gilgamesh. The strength of character, as well as nature, would be easily be known by Karna.
Balmung used second last command seal to match the Brahmastra Kunndala. Last one was used on VS.
Brahmastra can be used as an eye laser on a portion not on body and closer to Gil. After all its quite the long chain.
For last one i think so i only have wiki for reference and few discussion sites, neither count as complete.
Heracles in his alternate forms has already fought and "defeated" Archer too, so i wouldn't be that surprised.
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About the chains... as far as i know, herc broke the chains because of his willpower.. and karna's known for having that on steroids and apo vol 5 mentioned that his strongest weapon is his willpower so wouldn't he break the chains? Heck he can even use mana burst flames to blast the chains away like he did when vlad's stakes were too many for him to counter so why are the chains still used as an argument here? Also in extella iskander literally says that karna's a servant just as strong as gil and extella is written by nasu and sakurai so i think that pretty much confirms that karna's equal to gil not just "in the same tier" as him
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Herc broke the chains because of his legends of breaking the chains of Atlas/Prometheus, which were also god-binding chains.
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Gil is in-character?
Karna FRA 9001%
Karna FRA 9001%
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Gil in character stops holding back when he sees Karna, and would win 9/10 times easily.
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sounds like an ability that should be on his profile. Maybe resistence to sealing?Monarch Laciel said:
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It's never specified how Herc breaks the chains beyond 'Ths is impossible but he's Herc'.
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I believe that Hercules broke Enkidu on sheer strength and anger after seeing Ilya being mortally wounded.
That is also a possible reference to the myth of when Herc broke the adamantine chains holding Prometheus.
That is also a possible reference to the myth of when Herc broke the adamantine chains holding Prometheus.
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not so sure, After all, how is the king of heroes surviving a weapon which will kill gods?RegisNex1232 said:
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not so sure, After all, how is the king of heroes surviving a weapon which will kill gods?
By nuking the Hero of Charity with Ea and Enkidu.
By nuking the Hero of Charity with Ea and Enkidu.
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By nuking the Hero of Charity with Ea and Enkidu.RegisNex1232 said:
I thought karna was faster.....
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Since when? Gil also has a lot of ranged attacks unlike Karna, so it's difficult to get a proper fight.
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check the stat, And Karna also has "ranged attacks". He isn't like Beserker who will fight only when close. Also this Karna in question isn't even in his best class unlike Gil.RegisNex1232 said:
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Stats don't matter when one side has a ranged lockdown and spammable nukes/NPs while the other doesn't. So what if Karna isn't in his best class? That is what is being debated here and Karna has no meaningful advantages over Gil.
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Any attack below A+ won't work on Karna, So spamming them doesn't help.RegisNex1232 said:
Even if Gil somehow uses something worthy, chances are they will simply miss or Karna displaces them away. On the other hand we know how to GG Gil with projectile. still, think he has no advanatge?
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@OnePunch
Where are you getting this "A+ or it doesn't work" from? The only instance I can think of that is anything like this was when Karna offset Balmung with KK and MBF. KK nerfs attacks by 90% so even E ranks will do something albeit barely. Gil has enough A rank gear to throw dozens upon dozens at Herc a second and not use them again even if they missed.
Worthy? KK doesn't work like GH, stop treating it like it does. The chances are that GoB will hit just like they nailed Herc, Saber, Alcides, Lancelot etc. Karna isn't (and can't) "displace" anything.
Yes, we need him to turn off SNI, have one arm, be sucked into the Grail, anchoring himself with his remaining arm, be focused on Shirou, get sniped by a guy who everyone thought was dead and have the plot specifically trying to murder him dead more than normal as stated by WoG. Karna is good but he is not setting shit up anywhere near that extent.
Karna has a barely anything, KK (which is the only reason he can step up to Gil), VS (a one shot tech that he doesn't go for), mad skillz (that won't be in range), eye beamu (gets blocked), and spear nuke (gets blocked too.
Where are you getting this "A+ or it doesn't work" from? The only instance I can think of that is anything like this was when Karna offset Balmung with KK and MBF. KK nerfs attacks by 90% so even E ranks will do something albeit barely. Gil has enough A rank gear to throw dozens upon dozens at Herc a second and not use them again even if they missed.
Worthy? KK doesn't work like GH, stop treating it like it does. The chances are that GoB will hit just like they nailed Herc, Saber, Alcides, Lancelot etc. Karna isn't (and can't) "displace" anything.
Yes, we need him to turn off SNI, have one arm, be sucked into the Grail, anchoring himself with his remaining arm, be focused on Shirou, get sniped by a guy who everyone thought was dead and have the plot specifically trying to murder him dead more than normal as stated by WoG. Karna is good but he is not setting shit up anywhere near that extent.
Karna has a barely anything, KK (which is the only reason he can step up to Gil), VS (a one shot tech that he doesn't go for), mad skillz (that won't be in range), eye beamu (gets blocked), and spear nuke (gets blocked too.
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All of karna's nps are literally long-ranged nukes tho... and thats not even counting the lightning attacks he can keep shooting with VS and the spliting lightning spear attack he uses in extella, it made a decent explosion when it was animated in apo. Gil may have more nps to throw at him but none of them can actually hurt karna aside from Ea unlike karna who can hurt gil with any of his activated nps. Iam not trying to say that karna wins this tho, still think that its inconclusiveRegisNex1232 said:
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Kavacha and kundala along with MPF allowed karna to shrug thousands of stakes from vlad in his own territory with each of those stakes being capable of screwing normal servants, and that was karna holding back. If he would simply get trashed like herc or lancelot because of GoB he wouldn't be stated as an equal to gil multible times in and out of narrativeAnonymousBlank said:
And please lets not even get started at what it took to kill both of them in story, it took just as much bullshit and plot armors to kill karna as it took to kill gil
If you think gil can simply block eye beamu and brahmastra kundala then why is it so hard to believe that karna can block casual nps like he did against thousands of stakes and a balmung blast?
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90% offset is thanks to his NP, but what about his natural endurance? This the reason why A+ weapons would only work. Even Dracula's stakes didn't work until he started using the ones from inside his body.AnonymousBlank said:
GoB hit Hercules because he was trying for close combat. On the other hand Karna has no such need. And He can displace them like Archer using his own weapons.
To kill Karna they had to do equal number of bullshit especially considering how he pursue them even after being injured(which he could have and finished the job unlike Gil). As for range if Karna's attack can't reach Gil how are Gil's attack reaching him? That's seems i don't know biased?
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And Like i said before, Herc as berserker was his weakest incarnation, Gilgamesh has already lost to "True Archer". He made a mockery of his GoB and his treasure before. Wouldn't be surprised if same thing happened here.
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@One Punch
Stop quoting large posts, please.
Stop quoting large posts, please.
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@OnePunch
It was specifically stated that it was KK and MBF that blocked Balmung, his endurance was irrelevant when the attack has already been neutralized.
Vlad's stakes are weak as hell compared to pretty much everything Gil throws out. Kazikli Bey kills shit with pure quantity Gil has that and quality.
GoB will hit Karna too because he goes for cqc. He isnt using his Brahmastra amd variations from the beginning.
Gils hit because they come from anywhere he wants, he unloads them in similar quantities to the stakes, they are all individually stronger than the stakes, SNI lets Gil pull off pretty much every plan he wants.
Karna's don't because they won't be spammed, can be blocked by the hundreds of shields can whip out on a whim, SNI meams Gil already knows they are coming.
Herc being a Berserker makes my point even better since he is already superior to Alcides stat wise before the ME amp. Gil casually stomped that guy and Saber while nerfed. Alcides only "beat" Gil because his lion skin lolnopes everything made by humans (which is what comprises 99.9999% of GoB's contents), doesn't have Divinity for an easy Enkidu win, has boatload of extra NP with crap like Reincarnation Pandora. Gil still casually blocked his arrows which were strong enough to deflect GoB.
At the end of the day it still goes
>SNI
>Enkidu
>Ea
>GG
It was specifically stated that it was KK and MBF that blocked Balmung, his endurance was irrelevant when the attack has already been neutralized.
Vlad's stakes are weak as hell compared to pretty much everything Gil throws out. Kazikli Bey kills shit with pure quantity Gil has that and quality.
GoB will hit Karna too because he goes for cqc. He isnt using his Brahmastra amd variations from the beginning.
Gils hit because they come from anywhere he wants, he unloads them in similar quantities to the stakes, they are all individually stronger than the stakes, SNI lets Gil pull off pretty much every plan he wants.
Karna's don't because they won't be spammed, can be blocked by the hundreds of shields can whip out on a whim, SNI meams Gil already knows they are coming.
Herc being a Berserker makes my point even better since he is already superior to Alcides stat wise before the ME amp. Gil casually stomped that guy and Saber while nerfed. Alcides only "beat" Gil because his lion skin lolnopes everything made by humans (which is what comprises 99.9999% of GoB's contents), doesn't have Divinity for an easy Enkidu win, has boatload of extra NP with crap like Reincarnation Pandora. Gil still casually blocked his arrows which were strong enough to deflect GoB.
At the end of the day it still goes
>SNI
>Enkidu
>Ea
>GG
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