Kamen Rider Joker Vs Seryu: The Warped Meaning Of J/Kill The Sins (12-3-0) GRACE OVER!

[TheGreatJedi13]

why are we talking about Joker dealing with stronger enemies
the stats are what's already in his calc. him defeating max doesn't matter
since Koro scales on AP higher in relative to his current AP feats scaling which is half of Double
Also the Metal Dopant feat is on his 7-B key not high 7-C which is used here

 

[Tatsumi504]

Okay so, Kuro is stronger than either Seryu or Shotaro, but by how much? See, Shotaro has fought people far stronger than him before, ranging from Weather, Skull, and Metal. Now why does this matter? Max Joker oneshot Metal. Another thing to note, Shotaro was holding back as to not kill the human controlling Metal. Now, how strong is Metal?

Metal had used the Metal Memory which in section 6 of the Zukan, was 5x stronger than any halves of W, which included Shotaro’s Joker Memory.

Here’s the raw and translation:

メタル側の心肺機能を極限まで高め、制御する器官「コンバーターラング」を内蔵する強化外骨格部位。
基本的な機能は他の５つの半身と同じであるが、メタルメモリによって強化されたこの半身は、他の半身よりもおよそ５倍の強度を持つ。

This is a reinforced exoskeleton part that incorporates the "converter lung," an organ that enhances and controls the cardiopulmonary functions of the metal side to the utmost limit.
The basic functions are the same as those of the other five halves, but this half, reinforced by metal memory, is approximately five times stronger than the other halves.

If it's 5x stronger then that's Low 7-B not High 7-C

So, back to the debate, while Kuro is stronger, unless you show me otherwises, Max Jokers beats him down. And I don’t see eating Shotaro is viable here as Kuro will need enough push force to outmatch Shotaro’s own push force. Kuro having Class M vs Shotaro’s Class T.

A 5x AP difference still isn't enough to destroy Kuro beyond what High-mid regen can cover and like I said, He's been engulfed by explosions stronger than him before and it didn't reach his core. What does lifting strength have to do with eating someone? He can grow to a size big enough to swallow a human whole.

Also you talked about missiles. They’re 5 meters apart. Like, does Seryu always keep a distance away from her opponent’s. I was told that she is a close-mid range fighter who would at times close the distance between her and her opponent.

She has like 10 sets of weapons she can utilize, only after exhausting it's ammo did she enter cqc

 

[BERRIES555]

Nah see, quite literally the only difference between T1 and T2 is stats. The statement that comes from the T1 Metal, not the T2. It’s quite literally the same model, abilities and everything.

Yeah nah, W’s profiles should have a 5x multiplier to finishers and stronger forms. The season is like, the lowest possible priority atm.

See, how strong were those pinch shots? Cause looking at Mine’s profile, it’s depends on the amount of danger she’s in. And it engulfed its body, Shotaro can make people blow up.

The reason why I say LS matters is cause Shotaro could physically pry Kuro’s mouth. If Kuro like, gets a limb, it’ll do some damage. But if Kuro fully eats Shotaro, which you probably should give an example to how (Don’t need a clip btw, just explain it), he could, ya know, dodge.

Could you please explain how she fights when they’re so close (I’ve been asking this like 4 times now : p). Shotaro pretty easily closes the distance. Does she like, actively run away from fights and attack from a range or smth?

 

[Shadowslash125]

why are we talking about Joker dealing with stronger enemies

The reason why is that we're trying to explain Joker's skill level. Besides the obvious three, here are some Dopants he has defeated (albeit as W) that I've seen to have very similar or identical skill sets to Seryu and Koro:

Beast Dopant: Koro but higher regen and tankiness
Quetzalcoatlus Dopant: Probably has the same size as Berserker Koro (but this bastard fecking flies)
And Energy Dopant (who is the only one that Joker has faced in this form): Energy Railgun.
In addition to Zone Dopant (who doesn't have any skillset identical to Seryu and Koro): Double Teaming with Beast Dopant, helps teleport BD to blind spots for sneak attacks and shoots light bullets.

The Shotaro used here is after he has fought the Energy Dopant, which means he has the knowledge to defeat foes with similar abilities to the two (minus nuke).

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

The reason why is that we're trying to explain Joker's skill level. Besides the obvious three, here are some Dopants he has defeated (albeit as W) that I've seen to have very similar or identical skill sets to Seryu and Koro:

im talking more about how he explained how he 1 shot max and how is that even relevant to skill

 

[BERRIES555]

Oh oneshoting Metal is just a Max Joker feat

Edit: I think I read your comment wrong. Just ignore this

 

[Tatsumi504]

See, how strong were those pinch shots? Cause looking at Mine’s profile, it’s depends on the amount of danger she’s in. And it engulfed its body, Shotaro can make people blow up.

Seryu physically is High 7-C (520.99KT), her weapons scale above that and among them, she has one big ass missile that she notes is stronger than the rest. A casual shot from Mine matched Seryu's strongest artillery and Koro can tank several shots from her. Mine only ever dealt significant damage to Koro when in a pinch, using pumpkin's sniping shots but a shot from her big enough to engulf his body still didn't end him.
In the fight, Mine enters a pinch when she separates from tatsumi (it's a 2v1, Seryu and Koro vs Mine). Base Koro could still take multiple shots from Mine, Seryu ordered him to use the trump card cause Mine figured out where his core is, her weapon was basically on assault rifle mode.

The reason why I say LS matters is cause Shotaro could physically pry Kuro’s mouth. If Kuro like, gets a limb, it’ll do some damage. But if Kuro fully eats Shotaro, which you probably should give an example to how (Don’t need a clip btw, just explain it), he could, ya know, dodge.

Koro could just... you know... swallow unless you saying he'll climb his way back to Koro's mouth or exit through his rear end.
What is an example needed for? Just grab him and toss him in his mouth while he's initially surprised. Class T lifting strength doesn't mean he's too heavy to lift and unless he actually tries to instantly break out, Koro can eat him in that brief instance of surprise.

Could you please explain how she fights when they’re so close (I’ve been asking this like 4 times now : p). Shotaro pretty easily closes the distance. Does she like, actively run away from fights and attack from a range or smth?

Gaining distance isn't a problem considering she has an actual human (animal in this case) shield protecting her. Koro also has @ mode called "arms" where he just gains massive buffed hands and goes rapidly swinging, it's not like Seryu's weapons need to be used from hundreds of meters away. Shotaro closes the distance, no problem he gets to eat a salvo of explosives from multiple grenade, rocket launchers, probably tank piercing, explosive rounds as well. There's also some kind of drill she can use for close combat, can still be shot as well as a massive flail (spiked ball on a chain). All of these + Koro in the mix means the punch, kick merchant shouldn't even attempt cqc.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Also when she uses her long-range weaponry, doesn't she use them from far away? When she uses the Justice Volley Fire, she's like very very far from Tatsumi and Mine. In this case, the two should be about a giraffe's height away. Like BERRIES has asked, does she run away to extend the range between them or will she just chuck Koro at Shotaro while she prepares the shots?

im talking more about how he explained how he 1 shot max and how is that even relevant to skill

Oh, Maximum Joker (Or Max Joker to shorten it) is the name for Joker's finishers. We're saying that Joker using his finisher is strong enough to One Shot the Metal Dopant which is 5x stronger than each of W's halfs including this Joker one. Regardless of T2 or T1 gaia memories, the Metal memory is able to bring this benefit. While yes, this feat was performed by T2 Joker against T2 Metal Dopant but it's just the boost from T1 to T2, which all users of the latter memories benefit from. Meaning that if T1 Joker does this feat to T1 Metal Dopant, the result will still be the same. Also if you're worried about this, this Higher AP only applies to his finishers.

The bad news is that he likes to spam it a lot.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Besides the obvious three, here are some Dopants he has defeated (albeit as W) that I've seen to have very similar or identical skill sets to Seryu and Koro:

Gonna need some kind of visual aid ro show it reaches the level of explosive rain Seryu can just dish out

 

[Tatsumi504]

Also when she uses her long-range weaponry, doesn't she use them from far away? When she uses the Justice Volley Fire, she's like very very far from Tatsumi and Mine. In this case, the two should be about a giraffe's height away. Like BERRIES has asked, does she run away to extend the range between them or will she just chuck Koro at Shotaro while she prepares the shots?

She didn't start the fight near them. She spotted them from afar while they were leaving a city and proceed to rain fire on them from afar. Nothing says she can't use it in close range, she can't gain distance to use it

 

[Shadowslash125]

She didn't start the fight near them. She spotted them from afar while they were leaving a city and proceed to rain fire on them from afar. Nothing says she can't use it in close range, she can't gain distance to use it

There's a scene prior to the Justice Volley Fire feat, where Seryu's checking for civilians around the area, then letting loose the moment she finds only Tatsumi and Mine on the radar. Since this location is in the city inhabited by innocent civilians (while the ground floor itself has cleared, there can be people in the buildings around the area that may not be aware or have nowhere else to run to. Would she still use those funny exploding stuff from her arsenal or would she just not care about the collateral damage in this case. Just something I'm wondering about.

 

[Tatsumi504]

There's a scene prior to the Justice Volley Fire feat, where Seryu's checking for civilians around the area, then letting loose the moment she finds only Tatsumi and Mine on the radar. Since this location is in the city inhabited by innocent civilians (while the ground floor itself has cleared, there can be people in the buildings around the area that may not be aware or have nowhere else to run to. Would she still use those funny exploding stuff from her arsenal or would she just not care about the collateral damage in this case. Just something I'm wondering about.

If the ground floor in a 100m radius is clear i don't see why not. Her sense of justice like I've said is distorted. One reason to view those people as evil is all she needs.
Seems 1 was bothering myself for nothing. Her ten weapons of judgment are on her profile. She has 3 that can be used freely in cqc

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Honestly i"m not buying on the Koro swallow Shotaro because the LS difference is still hella big, like sure he got eaten but he can just burst out from that fella like no problem with it
If it's like Class M vs Class G then I can give Koro a benefit here but against Class T? That's twice of disadvantage

 

[Shadowslash125]

The jaws where Koro's supposedly going to swallow Shotaro can lead to his head part, which Mine was easily able to shoot through in their first fight. I don't see how Joker isn't going to like punch through that normally or with a finisher and just be back onto square one.
Another question, will Seryu use the Justice Volley Fire while Koro is fighting Joker?

 

[BERRIES555]

Gonna be real with you chief, I don’t see how that’s beating a Max Joker. Like, the scale chain is there but Max Joker is stronger.

Okay so, imagine this. A dog runs up and bites you, you can physically pry the dogs jaw with your hands. That’s kinda a simplified way of explaining it. Like it Kuro bites down, the newtons of force he pushes down is less than the newtons of force Shotaro can lift/push up. You know what I mean? When I mean an example, I mean like, how Kuro eats people. Cause if it’s just run and chomp, I don’t see why Shotaro would be caught off guard.

I’m sorry but that still doesn’t explain how Seryu fights. She can gain distance with Kuro as. A shield, but does she do that in character? Like, if Seryu starts a fight 5 meters away, what’s likely her first move? That’s what I’m asking. I’m not asking what she’d do if she had range, I’m asking what she’d do if she didn’t. Also, I just wanna say that you explaining the Seryu vs Mine and Tatsumi fight lowkey kinda makes me believe even more that Seryu wouldn’t go for a big missile launcher here .

The explosions will just take out an object’s body and more. One, two and three. But yeah, Rider explosions consistently cover both the person and a blast area

 

[BERRIES555]

The jaws where Koro's supposedly going to swallow Shotaro can lead to his head part, which Mine was easily able to shoot through in their first fight. I don't see how Joker isn't going to like punch through that normally or with a finisher and just be back onto square one.
Another question, will Seryu use the Justice Volley Fire while Koro is fighting Joker?

Genuinely, from what’s being said I don’t think she would. Like it seems that she only did that massive volley of attacks when she is already at a great enough distance

 

[ZeedKZ]

Joker FRA

 

[Shadowslash125]

Counted.

 

[Catbowtie]

Oh wow! @Shadowslash125 do you need for Seryu or can I bow out? (I am NOT a Seryu supporter, but I'm sure you've seen it on my message wall)

 

[Shadowslash125]

Oh wow! @Shadowslash125 do you need for Seryu or can I bow out? (I am NOT a Seryu supporter, but I'm sure you've seen it on my message wall)

If you want to. I'm fine with it either way

 

[Catbowtie]

Nah, I'm good. I'm out.

 

[Shadyboi0]

Half boiled FRA

 

[Shadowslash125]

Counted.

 

[Catbowtie]

Joker For Reasons Above.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Counted.

 

[shootingrock]

Fuuto's Trump Card FRA

 

[Shadowslash125]

Counted.

 

[Shadowslash125]

This was taking too long.
Shotaro Hidari, AKA Kamen Rider Joker had been fighting the crazed Seryu and her monstrous dog for a few minutes now. These two certainly weren't anything he couldn't handle, with Koro being a weaker version of the Beast Dopant he and Philip had fought together as Kamen Rider Double. Its regeneration was slower but still troublesome and the woman's weapons packed some punch. Every time he tried to get near her, her bloody dog just intercepted him, and it wasn't easy to fight against two enemies at once, as the two bounced him around in their attacks for a while. The next worst thing to happen was Koro's last resort, which enhanced him to high hell, making this fight a struggle on his own. If only Philip was here...

Now that he had gotten a few blows out of them, there was no more time to be lost; he needed to end this quickly. Before he could do anything, a piercing sadistic laugh could be heard from Seryu. She had cleared some distance between them and was now taking out her big guns; he could see missile turrets, an anti-tank rifle and some other weapon he couldn't describe. No point in rushing at her at all, since he also had to worry about the giant red Koro charging right at him. Suddenly, a lightbulb appeared in his mind as he just charged straight for them, letting the dog do the same to him while its owner prepared her shot. As soon as Koro's arm was in range to lunge at Shotaro, he suddenly grabbed his arm and took a small spin, taking this giant behemoth with him into his motions. As soon as she fired at him, Kamen Rider Joker chucked Koro right at her, making it tank all of the firepower of her weapons and likely destroying the teigu as well. By the time the smoke from the resulting impact cleared just enough for Shotaro to see a spherical orb on Koro's left shoulder while its all battered but still living, he wasted no time inserting his memory into the finisher slot.

"JOKER! MAXIMUM DRIVE!"
Kamen Rider Joker's fist became coated in purple energy as he ran to Koro, before delivering a forceful punch to the core, sending it flying and hitting what sounded like a human body to him before what was left of Koro exploded into smithereens, possibly damaging Seryu too. When the smoke cleared completely, he found his answer. Seryu was on the floor near the remains of Koro's core, her sadistic smile only grown exponentially since their first meeting, despite the state of her broken body. Her limbs and their weaponry underneath had been blown off by the explosion. Looks like this battle is finally over, he thought to himself before her psychotic laugh broke his train of thought. She rambled loudly about her final weapon in her head; a bomb that she said was strong enough to take him and possibly take this city with her. There's only fifteen seconds left, possibly less if she had set it off before she started rambling. There was no way he was going to let her destroy this city. Those who make the city cry will pay. And even more important to him was his vow to Philip.

"I'm going to keep protecting this city. For Philip!"

He shouted out loud before initiating his Maximum Joker finisher on her. Running to her, he jumped into the air and proceeded to shift his body to the position of a dive kick, with the very same purple energy coating his feet this time. All Seryu could do was to scream in pain as she received the kick to her head, any sign of her twisted sense of justice replaced by fear that she won't take him with her as she finally exploded from his finisher rather than her own suicidal attack. By the time Kamen Rider Joker landed on his feat, what was once Seryu was now pieces of her flesh and blood strewn everywhere, some burning from the explosion. He will protect this city to his last breath, and Shotaro Hidari wasn't going to let anyone stop him in his tracks. After detransforming from his rider form, he pondered slightly about what could've been if he was even a second late. The Futo PD returned to the spot of the battlefield, checking if their hero is safe and sound, and investigating the remains of his adversaries. Ryu Terui, a fellow Kamen Rider and a cop, told Shotaro that the pink-haired girl vanished from everyone's sights all of a sudden and that they would be taking this investigation from here, prompting Shotaro to walk away from the battlefield, the fear of possibly losing this battle still plaguing his mind.
All those depressing thoughts were cleared once he heard a meow nearby, making him turn to see the lost cat he's supposed to catch. Finally remembering whatever he was supposed to do, he chased the cat for a few more minutes before eventually catching it.

GRACE IS OVER! THANK YOU GUYS FOR TAKING PART IN THIS MATCHUP!
This matchup can now be added, I think. Enjoy this ending too, yeah?