Kamen Rider Joker Vs Seryu: The Warped Meaning Of J/Kill The Sins (12-3-0) GRACE OVER!

[Nicetoderp]

Alright, Joker via just slightly higher AP. And more stopping power to just end the fight outright that bypass Koro's attempt at puppeting her body via explosion.

 

[Shadowslash125]

That's a vote right? If so, then counted.

 

[Shadowslash125]

For the moment, I'm not going to cast my vote just yet, since I want to hear more arguments from Seryu's side.

 

[Nicetoderp]

That's a vote right? If so, then counted.

It is a vote

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Seryu when she realized she was about to explode
She knows Joker will die with him cause he was in melee range

 

[BERRIES555]

****, I was gone for a few hours. What did I miss?

 

[Nicetoderp]

Seryu when she realized she was about to explode
She knows Joker will die with him cause he was in melee range

Joker would mostly be fine, actually. Since every Rider just tank the same explosion manip from each other. Also, they usually are able to just withstand the explosion.

...

What? It wasn't on his profile?

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Joker would mostly be fine, actually. Since every Rider just tank the same explosion manip from each other. Also, they usually are able to just withstand the explosion.

...

What? It wasn't on his profile?

incon by technicality
you hate to see it.

idk if the thing is calc to know the strength and idk how strong is their resistance but afaik it even reached Mine who is already far away in sniping range

 

[Nicetoderp]

afaik it even reached Mine

It only just several times larger than the things they're exploding. Every Riders, even across different continuity, can shrugs off the explosion they made going off in their own face.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Seryu when she realized she was about to explode
She knows Joker will die with him cause he was in melee range

Ok, there's a chance that Kamen Rider Joker's Explosion will kill Seryu before she sets off the nuke. Even if she does, Shotaro has about either 15 seconds or one minute to react. Because they're specifically fighting in the city he's trying to protect from her. He has the opportunity to y'know just explode her head before it happens.

 

[BERRIES555]

Joker’s explosions are pretty strong, considering how the Max Joker could oneshot T2 Metal, which was over twice as durable as Joker himself.

 

[Shadowslash125]

incon by technicality
you hate to see it.

idk if the thing is calc to know the strength and idk how strong is their resistance but afaik it even reached Mine who is already far away in sniping range

To be fair, Tatsumi did have to save her from that explosion.

 

[BERRIES555]

Ok, there's a chance that Kamen Rider Joker's Explosion will kill Seryu before she sets off the nuke. Even if she does, Shotaro has about either 15 seconds or one minute to react. Because they're specifically fighting in the city he's trying to protect from her. He has the opportunity to y'know just explode her head before it happens.

I was told that Seryu literally tells people that there’s a nuke in her brain. If that’s true and they’re fighting in Fuuto, Shotaro will do anything in his power to kill Seryu before she can even think about letting off a nuke. That city is too precious to him

 

[Shadowslash125]

Seryu literally tells people that there’s a nuke in her brain

Few seconds before she sets it off iirc.

 

[BERRIES555]

Well no my point still stands, Shotaro will go for the kill and go for a Max Joker

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Ok, there's a chance that Kamen Rider Joker's Explosion will kill Seryu before she sets off the nuke. Even if she does, Shotaro has about either 15 seconds or one minute to react. Because they're specifically fighting in the city he's trying to protect from her. He has the opportunity to y'know just explode her head before it happens.

It's a bomb it doesn't just suddenly not explode when you set it to explode by any other means

It only just several times larger than the things they're exploding. Every Riders, even across different continuity, can shrugs off the explosion they made going off in their own face.

It is not. it is already larger than Rubicante's explosion which is already 7-B
because those were tanked by the crew due to them being far from the center but even Bols who is just below it survived

But the case for Seryu is different because even if Mine were given time to run and she did got far enough that the Temple is no longer in the view she is still almost caught up until she was saved

Seryu can skip the time countdown since time bombs are set up with a delayed fuse so if the bomb is set up directly without the need for the delayed fuse it would explode instantly

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I was told that Seryu literally tells people that there’s a nuke in her brain. If that’s true and they’re fighting in Fuuto, Shotaro will do anything in his power to kill Seryu before she can even think about letting off a nuke. That city is too precious to him

she did not randomly ramble it on enemies
she only told Mine at the end when the fight was over and even laughed first to delay Mine further and Mine guessed it afaik

 

[BERRIES555]

Okay so, she says it when she’s close to death. Crush her head in. Also like, if Seryu does indeed threaten Fuuto, Shotaro is willing to just outright kill people. There has been people who threatened Fuuto in the past and Shotaro was forced to kill them. And if he really wanted to, Max Joker’s makes Yummy explode till they’re decided to smithereens. It really wouldn’t be difficult for Shotaro to destroy the nuke in her head while killing Seryu herself

Also like, is Seryu’s best win con really just mutual destruction via nuke. And how strong is that nuke, is it ever calced or something

 

[Shadowslash125]

It's a bomb it doesn't just suddenly not explode when you set it to explode by any other means

An explosion from one source (say a bomb) is more likely to destroy or damage another one than to trigger the same response for it to go under a chain reaction. I tried googling that out, so take this with a grain of salt. That is assuming if Seryu hasn't already been killed/incapacitated by Joker.

Seryu can skip the time countdown since time bombs are set up with a delayed fuse so if the bomb is set up directly without the need for the delayed fuse it would explode instantly

I don't think I've heard of this at all, at least not from the anime (I haven't read the manga pls don't kill me).

she only told Mine at the end when the fight was over and even laughed first to delay Mine further and Mine guessed it afaik

Unlike Mine, Shotaro is a detective for quite some time, and he's going to figure out the bomb shenanigans faster than Mine. His intelligence is not to be underestimated, since he's able to deduce the identity of a certain Dopant before Philip could. To give context, Philip is the human version of a Google Search Engine, who can delve into the Gaia Library to search for information. Shotaro was able to piece the clues together to figure out the identity before he could. He's also able to figure out that another dopant was holding back for her own reasons. A finisher or just a plain fist to the head is enough to destroy the nuke inside her.

 

[BERRIES555]

yeah if Seryu’s beat win con is to kill herself to kill Shotaro, which he might just survive depending on how strong the attack is, then unless Seryu has another, more reliable win con, i might just go Shotaro FRA. Max Joker is an attack that will just destroy Seryu, or at the very least really **** her up, if landed. He’s better in CQC, Max Joker is spammable, and he’s leagues ahead in intelligence.

I’ll hold my vote off until Seryu has something other than “Nah, i’d kill myself”. i’m heavily leaning towards Shotaro

 

[Shadowslash125]

By the way, we're forgetting about Koro lol

 

[Nicetoderp]

If Koro wish to eat a Maximum Drive, then it ain't surviving. Unless the core is obscenely more durable than his own body, it's gonna explode as well.

 

[BERRIES555]

Nah like, biological tenge die if their core is destroyed. Max Joker. if a Yummy could be reduced to basically scrap metal, it’s gonna destroy that core. which i think is the color or smth.

Also, again, Max Joker is spamable and Shotaro is smart enough to use it against Kuro. if that doesn’t work, legit just chuck Kuro away. Class T vs Class M. Also leaves Seryu open

 

[Shadowslash125]

Guys, why not just chuck Koro at Seryu?

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

By the way, we're forgetting about Koro lol

forgettable

Unlike Mine, Shotaro is a detective for quite some time, and he's going to figure out the bomb shenanigans faster than Mine. His intelligence is not to be underestimated, since he's able to deduce the identity of a certain Dopant before Philip could. To give context, Philip is the human version of a Google Search Engine, who can delve into the Gaia Library to search for information. Shotaro was able to piece the clues together to figure out the identity before he could. He's also able to figure out that another dopant was holding back for her own reasons. A finisher or just a plain fist to the head is enough to destroy the nuke inside her.

determining the identity of a person through research is different from determining the arsenal of a person through interaction.
does do not come hand in hand
there is a knowledge and intelligence in deduction and knowledge and intelligence in battle instinct.
a detective cannot suddenly learn how to counter martial arts during fight even if he is as deductive as the wisest detective

An explosion from one source (say a bomb) is more likely to destroy or damage another one than to trigger the same response for it to go under a chain reaction. I tried googling that out, so take this with a grain of salt. That is assuming if Seryu hasn't already been killed/incapacitated by Joker.

Yes but did you know on the Little Boy bomb 99% of its uranium didn't undergo fission but still yielded destructive results

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

If Koro wish to eat a Maximum Drive, then it ain't surviving. Unless the core is obscenely more durable than his own body, it's gonna explode as well.

There are some hints but
the 2 tengus that got destroyed were from Bols which self-destructed
and Koro who died in Seryu's explosion

Tengus are generally far more durable than they appear Koro is imitating a biological body which might result to him being less durable but we know to completely destroy a Tengu you need Bols level opr Seryu level potency at best

 

[BERRIES555]

Max Joker has killed people stronger than Shotaro himself. If you need Seryu level AP to kill a Tengu, Max Joker is killing it. Not only that like, chuck the dog. Attack the owner

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Max Joker has killed people stronger than Shotaro himself. If you need Seryu level AP to kill a Tengu, Max Joker is killing it. Not only that like, chuck the dog. Attack the owner

It's not Seryu level
Seryu's self destruct is on a higher level which if we use Tengu breaking as a scale point it would be Bols
idk why it was not notated in her AP with self-destruction.

but since its not in the profile i guess it is a moot point to argue it as incon

Joker prolly takes this

 

[Shadowslash125]

Vote Counted and if there's no more arguments, then I vote for Joker too.

 

[BERRIES555]

Yeah I’ll vote for Shotaro.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Counted and Grace!
That was some fun debating. Thanks you guys for coming and contributing to the thread.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I'm late casting vote but yeah, I also go with negative rizz detective FRA

 

[Shadowslash125]

Aight Counted

 

[Tatsumi504]

None of the votes even considered what I've said previously. Of anyone can counter these points, I'll accept Seryu losing.
1.) He isn't getting past Koro. Sure go ahead and chuck him, just leaves his back open for Koro to eat.
2.) None of his attacks is going to permanently damage Koro thanks to his durability and regeneration. Koro was tanking attacks from Mine's pumpkin which gets stronger the more of a pinch she's in. Mine's casual attacks already possess more fire power than any of Seryu's weapons bar the suicide nuke.
3.) People may hate me for this but the explosions y'all are talking about just looks like the normal ending of any fight in shows like power rangers, the boss monster always explodes so nothing points to this being an ability. As I mentioned in 2, Koro's durability and regen can keep up with Mine's attacks and yes, Mine has engulfed his entire body in a blast and it barely did any skin damage. Needless to say the initial AP gap is nonexistent, Koro can tank far stronger attacks and regenerate from stronger attacks that engulf him and they don't reach his core.
4.) No one brought up anything showing how a punch, kick merchant is gonna evade a salvo of explosives to initiate cqc with Seryu. I couldn't find anything good besides this 1:52.
5.) Berserker Koro scales way higher and can just eat him, he will still have to deal with Seryu while avoiding Koro.
6.) The suicide nuke is powerful enough already to kill those comparable to Seryu even though they're a good distance away. He isn't surviving, Seryu doesn't jist mouth off she has a nuke in her head randomly. She had reason to against Mine due to her distorted ideals and she never mentioned the nuke exactly. She also had already activated it prior to mouthing off so at worst it's still a mutual kill for her.

Voting Seryu and if the punch kick merchant can counter the above points, incon

 

[Shadowslash125]

Counted

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Seryu FRA

 

[Shadowslash125]

Counted.

 

[BERRIES555]

Okay so, Kuro is stronger than either Seryu or Shotaro, but by how much? See, Shotaro has fought people far stronger than him before, ranging from Weather, Skull, and Metal. Now why does this matter? Max Joker oneshot Metal. Another thing to note, Shotaro was holding back as to not kill the human controlling Metal. Now, how strong is Metal?

Metal had used the Metal Memory which in section 6 of the Zukan, was 5x stronger than any halves of W, which included Shotaro’s Joker Memory.

Here’s the raw and translation:

メタル側の心肺機能を極限まで高め、制御する器官「コンバーターラング」を内蔵する強化外骨格部位。
基本的な機能は他の５つの半身と同じであるが、メタルメモリによって強化されたこの半身は、他の半身よりもおよそ５倍の強度を持つ。

This is a reinforced exoskeleton part that incorporates the "converter lung," an organ that enhances and controls the cardiopulmonary functions of the metal side to the utmost limit.
The basic functions are the same as those of the other five halves, but this half, reinforced by metal memory, is approximately five times stronger than the other halves.

This right here is our bad, so sorry for this. With 400+ profiles all needed to be looked at with things like crossovers, guidebooks, and lore dives, we miss a lot and prioritize some over others.

So, back to the debate, while Kuro is stronger, unless you show me otherwises, Max Jokers beats him down. And I don’t see eating Shotaro is viable here as Kuro will need enough push force to outmatch Shotaro’s own push force. Kuro having Class M vs Shotaro’s Class T.

Also you talked about missiles. They’re 5 meters apart. Like, does Seryu always keep a distance away from her opponent’s. I was told that she is a close-mid range fighter who would at times close the distance between her and her opponent.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Forgot to mention, Dopants are basically humans sticking USBs into themselves to become monsters. These explosions you're seeing in the scans are restraint so that the person detransforms from Dopant Form safely.

 

[BERRIES555]

Yeah and when facing people who they want to kill, Shotaro will just kill them. Doesn’t matter if they’re monsters or humans as he killed Yummy and Eternal