Kamen Rider Geats vs Ikit Claw (TT Grand Finale)

[Agnaa]

My tourney draws to a close, as one lucky sharpshooter comes to face with a skaven horde helmed by a haxlord.

Kamen Rider Geats will be in his Encounter Arc key, starting in Monster Form, with Boost Buckle restricted.

Ikit Claw has an hour of preparation beforehand. For context, this is enough to amass an army, some Warp Lightning Cannons, but not the Morskittar engine.

Speed will be equalised. Other than that, the battle assumptions will be standard; starting range will be 4km from Warplightning Cannon being able to reach that far (even though that isn't mentioned on the profile).

Kamen Rider Geats: 9 (@Shadowslash125, @TsukasayaEmmaDCD, @IxaSaga2, @GrayCraft_Dragon, @Kisaragi_Megumi, @BERRIES555, @ZeedKZ, @Lloydblitzed, @Raiden38)

Ikit Claw: 5 (@DaReaperMan, @SomaKing13, @Ebihara, @Naito-desu, @Dark_Soul20189)

Inconclusive: 1 (@Not_Icarus)

@Shadowslash125 @DaReaperMan

 

[Shadowslash125]

Oh boy, here's to the beginning of the end of a tourney.



A very important thing to take note of is that this fight is basically Geats in his element; the very thing he's been doing for 2 millennia straight. While obviously the army he's going to face now is completely different from those that he fights, we can't shake away the fact that he's built for this, unlike a few of the other participants in this tourney. He'll know what to do and what not to do to win.

Another crucial part to consider is that Ikit's whole army is about 8-A in dura. Geats can dish out heavy fire, where one bullet is enough for a one shot. And this guy can shoot about 200,000 a minute (3333 a second), which is his go-to weaponry when he gets into range. Even in the SBA distance, he should still be able to use his sniper form to snipe from afar as well as his Energy Projection Monster Fist which is his stretchy arm fist but energy and a projectile. The Sniper Mode can be further upgraded with the Magnum Buckle to shoot lasers as well. If one person from Ikit's army gets hit, they'll explode. Before considering the fact that Geats' max explosion is 500 meters, one explosion will be more than enough to set off a chain reaction that will explode subsequent rats near the exploded one. With that in mind, even if Ikit himself lives (very unlikely), much of his army he has amassed in one hour will be gone.

As for dodging Ikit's AoE, Geats has dodged this guy's explosion, whose beams can explode this much in sheer size. He can also teleport to the DGP and then back into the battlefield in a safe area where Ikit's explosions haven't reached yet.

This post is not a vote, just laying out the groundwork for the discussion.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Ikit casts Curse of the Horned Rat and turns Geats into a 9-B Clanrat.

Or he puts Geats info a conceptual illusion.

Or like any number of other things in Lore of Ruin or Plague, since pretty much any of the other mages Ikit has with him can do this too

And even if Geats' supernatural luck would help with something his verse ain't interacting with... he cannot and will not be able to fight ******* Skarbrand the Exiled or any number of other Daemons who could be accidentally summoned.

Now sure, Ikit has to get close enough to do any of this or decide to summon a verminlord for the ritual to **** up, but he can delete bullets thrown at him.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Wait hold on, how much range does Ikit's magic even have?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Wait hold on, how much range does Ikit's magic even have?

A few dozen meters up to about 91 meters, same with the rest of the mages he has with him. Thing is he can defend himself from visible attacks pretty well, considering skaven mages being able to delete people is not uncommon. Tiersetter fucke him because it isn't a visible attack.

 

[Shadowslash125]

A few dozen meters up to about 91 meters, same with the rest of the mages he has with him

Noted, so Geats will normally outrange their magic range.

Also is every ratbros in Ikit's army mages? If so, Geats doesn't really need to hit one of the mages so much as he just needs to hit anyone for the chain explosion to commence. Like say hit one of the footsoldiers or some machinery.

What specific lore are the Skavens and in extension Ikit proficient in and what will they usually spam?

Geats' supernatural luck would help with something his verse ain't interacting with

At the moment, in this situation, it's only going to aid him in getting a lucky shot at some part of his army.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Noted, so Geats will normally outrange their magic range.

Yes, but as I said before, they can just delete bullets and whatnot.

Also is every ratbros in Ikit's army mages?

no. Only a few dozen are, but really one is enough.

If so, Geats doesn't really need to hit one of the mages so much as he just needs to hit anyone for the chain explosion to commence. Like say hit one of the footsoldiers or some machinery.

...you do realize we're talking about Warhammer Fantasy mages right? Any one of them can just take control of one of the explosions and just say "nuh uh"

What specific lore are the Skavens and in extension Ikit proficient in and what will they usually spam?

For the Skaven? Lore of Ruin(AKA the Warp) and Lore of Plague, Ikit can use them all but his preference is Warp and he likes Ulgu/Shadow as well.

Yes, those are three of the more dangerous lores to fight.

At the moment, in this situation, it's only going to aid him in getting a lucky shot at some part of his army.

Indeed

 

[Shadowslash125]

This will essentially take a while to reply to.
Just to make it quicker while I take a deep dive into Aethyr Manip, which specific spells are the ones that can do these:

Any one of them can just take control of one of the explosions and just say "nuh uh"

just delete bullets and whatnot

 

[DaReaperMan]

This will essentially take a while to reply to.
Just to make it quicker while I take a deep dive into Aethyr Manip, which specific spells are the ones that can do these:

Both are something any mage with a go-getter attitude and a pulse(sometimes not even that) can do because Aethyr can just delete things and is everything in this setting.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Ok, we got that cleared up, so...

Any one of them can just take control of one of the explosions and just say "nuh uh"

The problem with that is there's only a short window of time for the mages to cast their funni explosion fizzle wizzle before a single explosion immediately turn into multiple explosions at once. Even by the time the explosion control happens, a huge amount of the army would've fallen prey to the explosions. Also, each explosion can go about 500 meters max and can cause enemies to explode at the same time in its vicinity, hence the fact that a huge chunk if not all of Ikit's army (including himself) will be in the explosion. Most likely, it'd be able to delete all the mages before the mages delete or control the explosion.

Thing is he can defend himself from visible attacks pretty well, considering skaven mages being able to delete people is not uncommon. Tiersetter fucke him because it isn't a visible attack.

Magnum bullets aren't exactly the most visible either, especially when they're shot like a revolver or a sniper. Fair enough that the Skaven would notice the dirty danmaku this guy packs if he sprays, but it's the sniper bullets that they'll be facing first due to the SBA range. These things are way worse in visibility and only show up when Geats lands his targets. Even though all the Geats Riders have AnPr resistance from being able to hold their own against Magnum users, any other rider not named Geats has trouble defending against the bullets, with some getting hit and others really having to think outside the box to deflect it. Geats himself is the only rider to perfectly dodge said magnum bullets, in sniper form no less. While I don't doubt they would be able to defend it, the fact that they have to find the bullet coming to them like a needle in a haystack would bring trouble.

Pair that up with the Info analysis and AnPr to have his bullet accurately hit a necessary target in the most unorthodox way possible as well.

The monster buckle allows Geats to be stretchy stretchy and grow his fists to epic proportions, but did you know that he can also use that to his advantage by popping the army from underground similarly to this? Hell, he might not even need to risk his arm, and just punch the entire army from down under with just an energy projection version, thereby not being in danger from the funni rats.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Ok, we got that cleared up, so...


The problem with that is there's only a short window of time for the mages to cast their funni explosion fizzle wizzle before a single explosion immediately turn into multiple explosions at once. Even by the time the explosion control happens, a huge amount of the army would've fallen prey to the explosions. Also, each explosion can go about 500 meters max and can cause enemies to explode at the same time in its vicinity, hence the fact that a huge chunk if not all of Ikit's army (including himself) will be in the explosion. Most likely, it'd be able to delete all the mages before the mages delete or control the explosion.

Yeah the entire "spell" is just controlled. It's not chain reacting once it gets to a mage who literally thinks and it stops. It would also get every mage immediately serious which basically means Geats is screwed if any of them, especially Ikit who can ******* teleport, gets close enough to cast on him.

Magnum bullets aren't exactly the most visible either, especially when they're shot like a revolver or a sniper. Fair enough that the Skaven would notice the dirty danmaku this guy packs if he sprays, but it's the sniper bullets that they'll be facing first due to the SBA range. These things are way worse in visibility and only show up when Geats lands his targets. Even though all the Geats Riders have AnPr resistance from being able to hold their own against Magnum users, any other rider not named Geats has trouble defending against the bullets, with some getting hit and others really having to think outside the box to deflect it. Geats himself is the only rider to perfectly dodge said magnum bullets, in sniper form no less. While I don't doubt they would be able to defend it, the fact that they have to find the bullet coming to them like a needle in a haystack would bring trouble.

Pair that up with the Info analysis and AnPr to have his bullet accurately hit a necessary target in the most unorthodox way possible as well.

Oh, so like the assassination attempts performed on Ikit frequently! By Eshin characters and others! Who are borderline invisible unless your name is Oxyotl!

Especially Ikit. Who can see the winds of magic and just say no to this thing obviously moving through them.

The monster buckle allows Geats to be stretchy stretchy and grow his fists to epic proportions, but did you know that he can also use that to his advantage by popping the army from underground similarly to this? Hell, he might not even need to risk his arm, and just punch the entire army from down under with just an energy projection version, thereby not being in danger from the funni rats.

Which is something that can just be wholesale denied by any of the mages, and would probably result in the above scenario of getting haxed happening.

 

[Agnaa]

Magnum bullets aren't exactly the most visible either, especially when they're shot like a revolver or a sniper. Fair enough that the Skaven would notice the dirty danmaku this guy packs if he sprays, but it's the sniper bullets that they'll be facing first due to the SBA range. These things are way worse in visibility and only show up when Geats lands his targets. Even though all the Geats Riders have AnPr resistance from being able to hold their own against Magnum users, any other rider not named Geats has trouble defending against the bullets, with some getting hit and others really having to think outside the box to deflect it. Geats himself is the only rider to perfectly dodge said magnum bullets, in sniper form no less. While I don't doubt they would be able to defend it, the fact that they have to find the bullet coming to them like a needle in a haystack would bring trouble.

Oh, so like the assassination attempts performed on Ikit frequently! By Eshin characters and others! Who are borderline invisible unless your name is Oxyotl!

Especially Ikit. Who can see the winds of magic and just say no to this thing obviously moving through them.

I am surprised that you think such things are less invisible than air shockwaves.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I am surprised that you think such things are less invisible than air shockwaves.

To a mage? Yeah it 100% is less invisible lol

 

[Agnaa]

If it's due to magic-related components of such projectiles, then I wouldn't expect that to help much with those weird bullets.

 

[SomaKing13]

Witchsight will basically make them all aware of what's going on

 

[DaReaperMan]

If it's due to magic-related components of such projectiles, then I wouldn't expect that to help much with those weird bullets.

With the bullets, because of Rider screwery it would be easy for someone with Witchsight to see them. While Ikit doesn't necessarily have Witchsight he has what matters here from it, as if would look like an anomaly.

While just a shockwave would look like the wind is blowing which doesn't tell a mage anything

 

[Shadowslash125]

Yeah the entire "spell" is just controlled. It's not chain reacting once it gets to a mage who literally thinks and it stops. It would also get every mage immediately serious which basically means Geats is screwed if any of them, especially Ikit who can ******* teleport, gets close enough to cast on him.

The explosion happens immediately upon being hit. By the time they think and cast, they would already be blown to bits before any explosion can be contained. Sure, it can happen if there are remaining mages in the vicinity for damage control but if the entire mage sector gets wiped, there won't be any chance for said explosions to be poofed up like you said.

Oh, so like the assassination attempts performed on Ikit frequently! By Eshin characters and others! Who are borderline invisible unless your name is Oxyotl!

Especially Ikit. Who can see the winds of magic and just say no to this thing obviously moving through them.

Wouldn't that just mean that in theory any and all mages will be able to see or at least sense Kokken's slashes?

Which is something that can just be wholesale denied by any of the mages, and would probably result in the above scenario of getting haxed happening.

While I don't entirely doubt the prowess of the mages, the fact that the bull guy was able to get the jump on both Geats in his currently strongest form that can amp his perception to hell and beyond and one of the game masters that had previously stomped the bull guy means that this feat was no laughing matter. Geats who terribly upscale him in skill can burrow his arm on the ground without anyone noticing (no visible attack, no sensing) and punch the entirety of the army from below without them so much as blinking. That attack can also result in explosions.
In hindsight, I should've got this during the Trishula fight but oh well.

With the bullets, because of Rider screwery it would be easy for someone with Witchsight to see them. While Ikit doesn't necessarily have Witchsight he has what matters here from it, as if would look like an anomaly.

Geats' powerset comes from tech rather than anything mystical or magical. The only closest thing for them is their innate desire amps, but they're not even like visual amps you see like Goku's aura. Another closest thing you can describe as 'Rider screwery' is the huge ass danmaku and homing capabilities. But as I've said before, the sniper is the weapon that will come up first rather than the OG danmaku blaster 40K due to the SBA range.
Basically, what's so anomalous about a bloody bullet from a sniper rifle?

If it's due to magic-related components of such projectiles, then I wouldn't expect that to help much with those weird bullets.

Agnaa hits the nail in the head with this one.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The explosion happens immediately upon being hit. By the time they think and cast, they would already be blown to bits before any explosion can be contained. Sure, it can happen if there are remaining mages in the vicinity for damage control but if the entire mage sector gets wiped, there won't be any chance for said explosions to be poofed up like you said.

And you're dealing with Hypersonic reactions which basically means any of them can react. Not to mention Ikit can still, again, teleport and gagglefuck him with a cute spell called "Complete Illusion". I'm sure you can guess how badly that removes Geats from play.

Wouldn't that just mean that in theory any and all mages will be able to see or at least sense Kokken's slashes?

See above, Kokken's slashes have nothing special about them. It's blowing wind, they wouldn't notice anything properly different.

While I don't entirely doubt the prowess of the mages, the fact that the bull guy was able to get the jump on both Geats in his currently strongest form that can amp his perception to hell and beyond and one of the game masters that had previously stomped the bull guy means that this feat was no laughing matter. Geats who terribly upscale him in skill can burrow his arm on the ground without anyone noticing (no visible attack, no sensing) and punch the entirety of the army from below without them so much as blinking. That attack can also result in explosions.
In hindsight, I should've got this during the Trishula fight but oh well.

And there's like 40 Warhammer mages here, each and every one of whom can end Geats in a thought, delete his attacks with a thought, and Ikit can fly and teleport.

Geats' powerset comes from tech rather than anything mystical or magical. The only closest thing for them is their innate desire amps, but they're not even like visual amps you see like Goku's aura. Another closest thing you can describe as 'Rider screwery' is the huge ass danmaku and homing capabilities. But as I've said before, the sniper is the weapon that will come up first rather than the OG danmaku blaster 40K due to the SBA range.
Basically, what's so anomalous about a bloody bullet from a sniper rifle?

Geats has Rider physiology doesn't he? Well, that, combined with his luck, would make him and everything he's got to look like an anomaly in the winds of magic. Hell, even if Rider Physiology doesn't make him look like a brick to the winds of magic due to that Rider history business, his luck permeating the area and running around his attacks ABSOLUTELY would!

 

[Agnaa]

And you're dealing with Hypersonic reactions which basically means any of them can react.

And there's like 40 Warhammer mages here, each and every one of whom can end Geats in a thought, delete his attacks with a thought

That sounds very dangerous for Kokken.

Couldn't they just, see that some of the army are getting killed by something, and use their 5-10x faster reactions start casting shit to save them, and then go wreck Kokken like that?

I'd think their travel speed (including shit like teleportation) and range would have to be pretty low for that to not be ridiculous.

 

[DaReaperMan]

That sounds very dangerous for Kokken.

Couldn't they just, see that some of the army are getting killed by something, and use their 5-10x faster reactions start casting shit to save them, and then go wreck Kokken like that?

I'd think their travel speed (including shit like teleportation) and range would have to be pretty low for that to not be ridiculous.

Kokken has 4 kilometers, and the army doesn't necessarily start in front of Ikit. Only very specific utility magic makes it past the kilometer mark, and Ikit doesn't have a reason to think the wind will delete him without prior knowledge lol

 

[Shadowslash125]

I'm like in the middle of making a meal so Imma just address this first.

Geats has Rider physiology doesn't he? Well, that, combined with his luck, would make him and everything he's got to look like an anomaly in the winds of magic. Hell, even if Rider Physiology doesn't make him look like a brick to the winds of magic due to that Rider history business, his luck permeating the area and running around his attacks ABSOLUTELY would!

The only thing remotely busted would be their NPI, and even then it just allows them to interact with stuff. It's a bullet that can interact with the stuff not many people can. The rest of the geebus can't even be applied to 95% of any matches that features Kamen Rider at all.
Also his luck... is just his luck. There's nothing really noteworthy about his luck that would tick anyone off during their fight. Hell, with the SBA distance, how would one figure out he's a lucky guy by the way he shoots? A good hit wouldn't necessarily give away that this guy has luck and anime on his side, no?

 

[DaReaperMan]

It is worth noting that Ikit himself, because he's an Ulgu practitioner, can throw himself into other dimensions and whatnot to avoid attacks. Or he turns himself into Aethyr to dodge. I'm assuming Ikit's at the front of the army to start with, since that's where he tends to be as far as the Thanquol novel and Total War are concerned, it's just that if a lone guy is coming from like 4 kilometers away, he's just sending the army.

I'm like in the middle of making a meal so Imma just address this first.

The only thing remotely busted would be their NPI, and even then it just allows them to interact with stuff. It's a bullet that can interact with the stuff not many people can. The rest of the geebus can't even be applied to 95% of any matches that features Kamen Rider at all.
Also his luck... is just his luck. There's nothing really noteworthy about his luck that would tick anyone off during their fight. Hell, with the SBA distance, how would one figure out he's a lucky guy by the way he shoots? A good hit wouldn't necessarily give away that this guy has luck and anime on his side, no?

His luck would absolutely register in the Winds of Magic, there's several registers of supernatural luck in the various lores of Aethyr, so yeah. Everything Geats has would be like a beacon shouting his luck and where his attacks are.

 

[Agnaa]

Kokken has 4 kilometers, and the army doesn't necessarily start in front of Ikit. Only very specific utility magic makes it past the kilometer mark, and Ikit doesn't have a reason to think the wind will delete him without prior knowledge lol

Kokken herself has 1.2km range.

I'm assuming Ikit's at the front of the army to start with, since that's where he tends to be as far as the Thanquol novel and Total War are concerned, it's just that if a lone guy is coming from like 4 kilometers away, he's just sending the army.

That's a good clarification, thanks!

 

[Shadowslash125]

Not to mention Ikit can still, again, teleport and gagglefuck him with a cute spell called "Complete Illusion". I'm sure you can guess how badly that removes Geats from play.

Unless he can immediately go into spell cast, he'd be serving himself up on a platter for a thing called a bullet. Thankfully, he has a built-in radar that can pick him up as he's teleporting.

See above, Kokken's slashes have nothing special about them. It's blowing wind, they wouldn't notice anything properly different.

Neither is Geats' bullet. See below.

what's so anomalous about a bloody bullet from a sniper rifle?

His luck would absolutely register in the Winds of Magic, there's several registers of supernatural luck in the various lores of Aethyr, so yeah. Everything Geats has would be like a beacon shouting his luck and where his attacks are.

The only thing I found about supernatural luck is Lore of Ranald, and nothing really tells me that Geats' supernatural luck really falls in any of these categories. Not only are those spells (since Geats' luck is passive and innate to him alone), but no one really knew he had such potent luck till he got split into 4 Aces, not even those that can sense shit like that. If anything, it'd just have them think this guy has a really good aim.

Ikit can still, again, teleport and gagglefuck him with a cute spell called "Complete Illusion". I'm sure you can guess how badly that removes Geats from play.

What's essentially stopping him from doing the same thing to Kokken? Ikit's stuff and his army completely outrange Kokken since her attacks can only go for like 1.2 km.
Sure, Ikit would be at the forefront but like that's basically dangling a carrot to a pig that can't reach it. At the same time:

it's just that if a lone guy is coming from like 4 kilometers away, he's just sending the army.

He's definitely going to be seeing that 'some wind from some lone gal' is wiping some of his army out, no?

 

[Shadowslash125]

I forgot to add onto this part.

Ikit's at the front of the army to start wit

That's going to be problematic on his end since that's just a one stop shop from a bullet hitting him. Either that or the bullet hits someone else and he gets included in the tally of people that got boomed in the explosion.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Unless he can immediately go into spell cast, he'd be serving himself up on a platter for a thing called a bullet. Thankfully, he has a built-in radar that can pick him up as he's teleporting.
Neither is Geats' bullet. See below.

Oh trust me, see below. As for detecting teleportation... not really gonna help cause Ikit isn't stupid enough to try to "nothing personal" kid someone.

The only thing I found about supernatural luck is Lore of Ranald, and nothing really tells me that Geats' supernatural luck really falls in any of these categories. Not only are those spells (since Geats' luck is passive and innate to him alone), but no one really knew he had such potent luck till he got split into 4 Aces, not even those that can sense shit like that. If anything, it'd just have them think this guy has a really good aim.

"but it's passive and innate--" doesn't matter, read the list of crap Aethyr is again(practically everything) and remember making someone lucky falls under it. AKA, Ikit and his mages can see Geats like one would see a Daemon. To explain it like your five, Ikit can see the winds of magic and Aethyr, Luck falls under the winds of magic and Aethyr, meaning that this thing which literally makes up everything in verse will cover Geats' luck

If you want another post from me on this matter, get Geats' luck inherently more uninteractible than Aethyr or make a CRT to remove luck from the list of stuff Aethyr covers, until then, all of his crap is like a beacon screaming Morse code at Ikit and will all be countered with singular thoughts.

What's essentially stopping him from doing the same thing to Kokken? Ikit's stuff and his army completely outrange Kokken since her attacks can only go for like 1.2 km.

You realize that literally 0.00001% of the army can actually get sniping right? It's not hard to dodge a Warp Lightning cannon shot, cause she outranges everything else that isn't a nuke or utility

Sure, Ikit would be at the forefront but like that's basically dangling a carrot to a pig that can't reach it. At the same time:

He's definitely going to be seeing that 'some wind from some lone gal' is wiping some of his army out, no?

He needs to see someone to engage them, and Ikit is good, but he isn't see through four kilometers of solid treeline with no aid from the opponent's inherent abilities good

 

[Shadowslash125]

h trust me, see below. As for detecting teleportation... not really gonna help cause Ikit isn't stupid enough to try to "nothing personal" kid someone.

I mean, even without the nothing personal technique, the radar's going to alert him of Ikit's presence the moment he even blips into his casting range. So like ok?

"but it's passive and innate--" doesn't matter, read the list of crap Aethyr is again(practically everything) and remember making someone lucky falls under it. AKA, Ikit and his mages can see Geats like one would see a Daemon. To explain it like your five, Ikit can see the winds of magic and Aethyr, Luck falls under the winds of magic and Aethyr, meaning that this thing which literally makes up everything in verse will cover Geats' luck

If you want another post from me on this matter, get Geats' luck inherently more uninteractible than Aethyr or make a CRT to remove luck from the list of stuff Aethyr covers, until then, all of his crap is like a beacon screaming Morse code at Ikit and will all be countered with singular thoughts.

Dude, Geats doesn't make himself lucky or anything that Aethyr Manip can just pick up. "Oh, it's part of the winds of magic" like ******* hell does Ikit straight up sense anyone that picks up a four-leaf clover with that?
Look, the point is that his luck isn't derived from magic. And it's also not like his bullet (which is the main thing they should be picking up on) is even laced with Geats' luck in the first place.

You realize that literally 0.00001% of the army can actually get sniping right? It's not hard to dodge a Warp Lightning cannon shot, cause she outranges everything else that isn't a nuke or utility

Then like Geats is essentially this, but he has more range with his sniper (his fist falls into the same range as Kokken tho). By this point, then no one should even be able to detect Geats with the Aethyr Manip (even if they could) nor his bullet. So even that is outranged by Geats.

He needs to see someone to engage them, and Ikit is good, but he isn't see through four kilometers of solid treeline with no aid from the opponent's inherent abilities good

Then he'd fail to see the sniper bullet that would kill him or explode a chunk of his army... and kill him.

That just seals Ikit's fate tbh. So uhh yea, Geats FRA.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I mean, even without the nothing personal technique, the radar's going to alert him of Ikit's presence the moment he even blips into his casting range. So like ok?


Dude, Geats doesn't make himself lucky or anything that Aethyr Manip can just pick up. "Oh, it's part of the winds of magic" like ******* hell does Ikit straight up sense anyone that picks up a four-leaf clover with that?
Look, the point is that his luck isn't derived from magic. And it's also not like his bullet (which is the main thing they should be picking up on) is even laced with Geats' luck in the first place.

Aethyr, AKA the winds of magic make up everything. On an info 2, AE1, all kinds of NEP, CM1, and even Acasuality 5 level. If that flew over your head, we do equalize, and there ain't we can do about it. As for there being no luck involved in the bullet... hehe...

Then like Geats is essentially this, but he has more range with his sniper (his fist falls into the same range as Kokken tho). By this point, then no one should even be able to detect Geats with the Aethyr Manip (even if they could) nor his bullet. So even that is outranged by Geats.Then he'd fail to see the sniper bullet that would kill him or explode a chunk of his army... and kill him.

That just seals Ikit's fate tbh. So uhh yea, Geats FRA.

Thank you for picking up an assault rifle and pumping your argument full of holes! Did you know that speed equal puts Geats' shots as just being shit? Supersonic+ vs Hypersonic. It's hilariously slow compared to Ikit who isn't entirely unskilled. Also, those things bend space and time or at least have that sort of power to make someone explode, which absolutely is something sense-able by Ikit or any mage in the setting for that matter. I know this because I Ctrl+F'd both Explode and Explosion into Geats' profile.

And even if Ikit miraculously lets it get close to him, it'll be physically visible to any of the Grey Seers, engineers, or Ikit himself can either nuke it or dodge it. You're acting like it blitzes across the range when it doesn't.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I love how I completely glossed over the mechanics of the explosions until I checked just now so yeah. This argument starts and ends at "Geats bends space and time to try to achieve his wincons" and end at "That is incredibly easy for someone who can see the winds of magic to spot and delete or take control of"

 

[Agnaa]

He needs to see someone to engage them, and Ikit is good, but he isn't see through four kilometers of solid treeline with no aid from the opponent's inherent abilities good

Remember that by SBA they're in Central Park. They'd be right at the edge of that, presumably with a good amount of the army spilling into the city.

Aethyr, AKA the winds of magic make up everything. On an info 2, AE1, all kinds of NEP, CM1, and even Acasuality 5 level. If that flew over your head, we do equalize, and there ain't we can do about it. As for there being no luck involved in the bullet... hehe...

Hmm, I'm a bit unsure about the winds of magic being equalised to other things. Best argument might be that by composing everything (including ordinary matter), they can tell when something isn't just ordinary matter. But idk, that does feel like a lot to stretch it into, especially if you're saying that sort of thing can be detected before/without it doing something anomalous.

Thank you for picking up an assault rifle and pumping your argument full of holes! Did you know that speed equal puts Geats' shots as just being shit? Supersonic+ vs Hypersonic. It's hilariously slow compared to Ikit who isn't entirely unskilled.

I think that's pretty solid reasoning tbh. Even with a danmaku spam, Ikit can wipe it out.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Remember that by SBA they're in Central Park. They'd be right at the edge of that, presumably with a good amount of the army spilling into the city.

Not the first Skaven invasion on the surface man-things, yes-yes.

Hmm, I'm a bit unsure about the winds of magic being equalised to other things. Best argument might be that by composing everything (including ordinary matter), they can tell when something isn't just ordinary matter. But idk, that does feel like a lot to stretch it into, especially if you're saying that sort of thing can be detected before/without it doing something anomalous.

It's morso a thing of Aethyr=everything, from the air you breathe to the ground beneath your feet, it's Aethyr. Mages are literally twisting it's inherent BS uninteractible form to cast their magic. For instance, when Balthasar Gelt turns someone into a gold statue, he's literally applying the concept of gold onto them. If something is inherently anomalous, such a bullet with the ability to break space and time to make someone explode, someone who can see the winds of magic, AKA Aethyr in it's more inherent uninteractible form, can see that anomaly.

It's the same reason people with Witchsight can sense Daemons before properly seeing them with their own two eyes, cause said Daemons are inherently anomalous, even if they haven't done anything yet

 

[Agnaa]

It's morso a thing of Aethyr=everything, from the air you breathe to the ground beneath your feet, it's Aethyr. Mages are literally twisting it's inherent BS uninteractible form to cast their magic. For instance, when Balthasar Gelt turns someone into a gold statue, he's literally applying the concept of gold onto them. If something is inherently anomalous, such a bullet with the ability to break space and time to make someone explode, someone who can see the winds of magic, AKA Aethyr in it's more inherent uninteractible form, can see that anomaly.

It's the same reason people with Witchsight can sense Daemons before properly seeing them with their own two eyes, cause said Daemons are inherently anomalous, even if they haven't done anything yet

My concern is more that I don't think we equalise systems that way; I don't think something like "everything has ki" means that things which nullify/detect ki can nullify/detect anything anomalous from other verses. I think we more rely on the displayed mechanics/theming of the systems themselves.

 

[DaReaperMan]

My concern is more that I don't think we equalise systems that way; I don't think something like "everything has ki" means that things which nullify/detect ki can nullify/detect anything anomalous from other verses. I think we more rely on the displayed mechanics/theming of the systems themselves.

The question for verse equalization with Fantasy in ways that Aren't supernatural is "Does it break the laws of reality?" With messing with space and time, the answer is yes fundamentally no matter how you twist it into being tech. How a mage makes his fireball is literally twisting Aethyr in it's raw state and applying the concept of fire to that state. The specifics of how it functions straight up depend on the mage and how they want to use it.

A dude who resists Aethyr Manipulation isn't going to resist a WoW Shaman throwing lava into their face besides resisting the heat. The Scarecrow's toxins aren't supernatural, so it won't equalize, that kind of thing...

Also, if you don't equalize this way, a mage literally can't cast magic and a Daemon instantly disappears because there just aren't winds of magic in the area to use to cast or to sustain their form, so uh... yeah. Unless I'm misunderstanding you.

 

[Agnaa]

The question for verse equalization with Fantasy in ways that Aren't supernatural is "Does it break the laws of reality?" With messing with space and time, the answer is yes fundamentally no matter how you twist it into being tech.

A dude who resists Aethyr Manipulation isn't going to resist a WoW Shaman throwing lava into their face besides resisting the heat. The Scarecrow's toxins aren't supernatural, so it won't equalize, that kind of thing...

Fair enough.

Also, if you don't equalize this way, a mage literally can't cast magic and a Daemon instantly disappears because there just aren't winds of magic in the area to use to cast or to sustain their form, so uh... yeah. Unless I'm misunderstanding you.

By "equalisation" I'm just referring to how their abilities that interact with abilities function on their opponent's abilities. For a real simplified example, it's just relevant when deciding which sorts of things a counterspell works on.

Regardless, they'd still be able to interact with reality and their opponent in the same way they could ordinarily (as long as those don't depend on interacting with their opponent's abilities).

 

[Ebihara]

feel like most of the disscuion has been about can ikit deal with the explosions/seeing luck. I feel like it would work.. whats ikit's win con after that, a variety of magic?

 

[DaReaperMan]

feel like most of the disscuion has been about can ikit deal with the explosions/seeing luck. I feel like it would work.. whats ikit's win con after that, a variety of magic?

I mean, even just Lore of Ruin/Warp has like 3 instant win spells in it, and Ulgu has a **** ton of instant win spells.

By "equalisation" I'm just referring to how their abilities that interact with abilities function on their opponent's abilities. For a real simplified example, it's just relevant when deciding which sorts of things a counterspell works on.

Counterspell will generally work on the supernatural or reality breaking aspects, it won't let a mage just have a bullet do a 180° or something. At least, not without using a TK spell.

Regardless, they'd still be able to interact with reality and their opponent in the same way they could ordinarily (as long as those don't depend on interacting with their opponent's abilities).

Yeah

 

[IxaSaga]

I mean, even just Lore of Ruin/Warp has like 3 instant win spells in it, and Ulgu has a **** ton of instant win spells.

so he can just instant win against geats in a shit ton of ways? What are some of these spells btw

 

[DaReaperMan]

so he can just instant win against geats in a shit ton of ways? What are some of these spells btw

Once he gets close enough, yeah, and that's pretty much "When", not if.

As for the spells in specific... for Lore of Ruin/Warp: Warp Lightning, The Chittering, Curse of the Horned Rat, Gnaw(though, as said, it's unlikely to be used)

For Ulgu/Shadows: Bewilder Foe(It means death), Complete Illusion(Imagine geats trapped in an illusion of his worst nightmares, unable to defend himself. It's literally Genjutsu.), Hallucinate(It means death), Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma(means death), Pit of Shades, Ribauld's Retroactive Illusion(Literally will cause Geats' death near the start of the battle if Ikit decides to cast it. Because it happens in the past.), The Traitor of Tarn, and finally Universal Confusion.

Literally all of Ulgu is either impossible to bypass survivability, incredibly useful utility, or instant win BS. Not mentioning other lores because I'm counting Ikit's preferred lores, but there is Lore of Plague for the Gray Seers. Lore of Ruin/Warp can be used by both Grey Seers and the Lore Engineers use. Not going over Lore of Plague because it has literally only 13 spells in it and is INCREDIBLY close range

 

[IxaSaga]

Once he gets close enough, yeah, and that's pretty much "When", not if.

As for the spells in specific... for Lore of Ruin/Warp: Warp Lightning, The Chittering, Curse of the Horned Rat, Gnaw(though, as said, it's unlikely to be used)

For Ulgu/Shadows: Bewilder Foe(It means death), Complete Illusion(Imagine geats trapped in an illusion of his worst nightmares, unable to defend himself. It's literally Genjutsu.), Hallucinate(It means death), Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma(means death), Pit of Shades, Ribauld's Retroactive Illusion(Literally will cause Geats' death near the start of the battle if Ikit decides to cast it. Because it happens in the past.), The Traitor of Tarn, and finally Universal Confusion.

Literally all of Ulgu is either impossible to bypass survivability, incredibly useful utility, or instant win BS. Not mentioning other lores because I'm counting Ikit's preferred lores, but there is Lore of Plague for the Gray Seers. Lore of Ruin/Warp can be used by both Grey Seers and the Lore Engineers use. Not going over Lore of Plague because it has literally only 13 spells in it and is INCREDIBLY close range

Gotcha

Thank you for picking up an assault rifle and pumping your argument full of holes! Did you know that speed equal puts Geats' shots as just being shit? Supersonic+ vs Hypersonic. It's hilariously slow compared to Ikit who isn't entirely unskilled. Also, those things bend space and time or at least have that sort of power to make someone explode, which absolutely is something sense-able by Ikit or any mage in the setting for that matter. I know this because I Ctrl+F'd both Explode and Explosion into Geats' profile.

I'm not getting this statement though. Shouldn't Ikit's Hypersonic+ reactions, combat, and perception all get equalized to Geats' bullets by the same difference here?
"The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight, etc."
Since Geats' combat speed and bullet speed is both Supersonic+ and his Athletic Human/Hypersonic speeds are null here.

This would also mean that travel speed gets equalized which means he's gonna travel at a snail's pace, no?

 

[Agnaa]

I'm not getting this statement though. Shouldn't Ikit's Hypersonic+ reactions, combat, and perception all get equalized to Geats' bullets by the same difference here?
"The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight, etc."

This would also mean that travel speed gets equalized which means he's gonna travel at a snail's pace, no?

No.

You compare each character's combat speeds. In this case, Kamen Rider Geats at Supersonic+, and Ikit Claw at Supersonic.

Then, you divide all of the faster character's speeds by the difference. Geats would be made about 2.27x slower, while Ikit Claw's speeds would remain the same.