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Kaido vs Landorus

Wrath Of Itachi said:
Ok, that makes sense, but how do we determine how much Rayquaza gets from his boost for vs battle sake.
Click to expand...
When dealing with unknown boosts that dont usually show to be dramatic in-verse (like, ingame 1 Swords dance can allow a pokemon to oneshot everything in their path while that doesnt happen anywhere else), it's best to use a rule of thumb like:

1) Base Ray > Base enemy = DD Ray is >>> Base enemy, which can or not be enough to oneshot.

2) Base Ray = Base Enemy = DD Ray is > Base enemy.

3) Base Ray < Base Enemy = DD Ray = Base Enemy.

Or something close to this.
 
Let me try to figure it out:

Landorus < 11.5 TT (below Lugia)

Kaido = 13.5 TT (Totally comparable to Whitebeard)

We can conclude that Lando < Kaido

After SD it could be argued that Lando's AP will be close or equal or a bit higher than Kaido's. However, Kaido's Durability is above his own AP, so the damage he will take from Landorus' attacks will not be critical.

And then we have Kaido's dragon form, which likely boosts his stats by a big shot. So even if you argued Lando stacking more SD's, he cannot compensate Kaido's boost in AP and Dura with AP alone.

In other words, even if Lando can match Kaido's dragon form in AP with SD, his durability is sh*t at this point and wont hold out for much time against Kaido.

Kaido has my vote.
 
Lando doesn't just have AP boosts, a lot of his moves also decrease his opponent's speed and when you combine a speed and range advantage, the option of playing it completely safe opens up.

Aside from that, if Kaido can boost his stats, shouldn't it be mentioned in his profile? Also, wouldn't that make him susceptible to the move Punishment which does more damage, the more the opponent stat boosts? Though I would guess that Punishment doesn't apply to form changes, just independent powers that increase stats.

Albeit, punishment is a contact move so he won't be able to use punishment and his range advantage at the same time.
 
Range advantage is questionable.

Landorus' physical attacks, the ones he can boost, are mostly cqc.

Kaido, in return, has a beautiful breath attack in dragon form, which Landorus cant take a hit of.

Abusing range against someone who more likely than not has a very developed Kenbushoku haki is pretty difficult.

All Zoans boost their user's physical stats. Kaido's dragon should be no exception.
 
There are some non-contact physical moves in Landorus' set. Stone edge is the most notable in this case, but rock slide gets a mention for flinching and rock tomb for speed decreasing... Earth quake would be his best non contact physical move, but that doesn't work on Kaido.

My question is not whether or not Zoans boost stats, but whether or not "punishment" works on it. But considering Lando can't afford to take a hit from Kaido, it might not be an option in the first place, even with protect.

And my last question: Does Kaido have a speed advantage?
 
Punishment working on Zoan is the same as working on Megas or Ditto's transformation. If it doesn't to them, it will not work on Kaido for boosting in his Dragon form.

I'm aware that both Landorus and Kaido scale way above those feats so they kinda cancel each other out. If anything, Kaido would have a minor advantage.
 
Punishment doesn't work on Zoan? Just making sure, it certainly makes more sense that way, considering megas and transformation... Assuming the entire AP/Dura increase is fully innate to the form and isn't a distinct aspect like a stat boosting passive, ex: Speed boost qualifies as something that boosts punishment.
 
SauceSorcery said:
I'm surprised at how close that is.
Does Kaido prefer to avoid/intercept attacks or tank them?
Click to expand...
Given he's only ever taken damage once in his life I'm guessing tank. What' the point of dodging when you're that strong.

As far as range goes I'm not sure it matter. Can't see Landorous throwing rocks from hundreds of kilometers.
 
Weeeelll. Landorus is capable of flying, though so is his opponent.

You could throw a rock from hundreds of kilometers away, provided that you're above your opponent. Plus stone edge is 'shot' after being manifested out of thin air, almost like a bullet compared to simply being thrown.

Besides, when you're half the speed of light and you have that AP, you can probably throw things pretty far anyway.

There is the case of dodging though, which is why I bring up speed reduction (in the form of rock tomb) first and swords dance before that.
 
Yea, I'm not saying he physically can't. I'm just saying it would be pretty funny for him to even be that far from Kaido in a fight :O Then throws some rocks and actually connects with a guy he may not be able to see from that far away, who doesn't do anything in that time-frame. :p :S
 
Rock slide can cover an area, but that would be funny.

Otherwise. Being able to control the distance in a flyer vs flyer, range vs range fight is pretty useful and this can be achieved by being faster than your opponent, especially since there are little to no obstacles in the air.
 
Landorous Picks up a rock: Take this Kaido!

Kaido sulking decides to pick up some booze and start drinking. Halfway through the rock comes and breaks his drink.: Who dare break my booze!?

Landorous Picks up and fires another one. Right after kaido gets up and looks around so the secondmisses agai

Kaido: "Show yourself coward!"

Landorous: "Stop moving you drunk!"

Tornadous: I don't thik he can hear you or knows you're picking a fight
 
Basically, if the AP gap is small because they both scale far above their feats, Landorus wins by increasing his AP above Kaido's safely, easily and in fewer swords dances, before decreasing Kaido's speed and using protect to get out of brief unfavourable positions like someone with a rechargable bomb in a bullet hell game.

At least based on a comment, Kaido seems inclined to not dodge, but rather tank and counter attack. This makes his fighting style exploitable for the "secondary effect" hax of pokemon, such as rock tomb and mud shot.

If the AP gap is very large and since Kaido's durability is higher than his AP. It'll be very unsafe for Landorus to spend several turns swords dancing, even with protect and by the time he reaches Kaido's AP, he'll still need to hit him a lot of times while he himself can get one-shot or almost one-shot... It's still safer to swords dance so instead of spending the entire match hitting someone hundreds of times, you only have to spend half the match close to them... But still.

Kaido's own attacks would get in the way of hitting him in this case, so rock tomb and mud shot won't be as much of an advantage unless Landorus can close the gap, which will take forever and won't work for mud shot because it's special... At least he has the stamina to pull it off.

Otherwise, Landorus may need to resort to spamming Extrasensory. Not sure how that will be calculated since it's basically a low form of mind hax.

In short: AP gap = small = Lando wins | AP gap = large = Kaido wins
 
Earthquake and earth power not working on a flying type is logic. It works, outside of the game mechanics.

Mudshot doesn't work on flying types in game, but I think it would work anyway since it doesn't require the opponent to touch the ground in order to work and we don't take all game mechanics as law. Some are contradicted or disproven, such as: Base stats, power points, four move limit, etc.

Besides, rock tomb is a physical move so Landorus will probably use that anyway if he swords dances.
 
I recall rockslide worked by an Onix thrashing against a chasm and literally creating an avalanche, but that was the anime. Otherwise I did a little read up on rock attacks. From what I see every description says "throws" or "pick up and throw". Nothing about generating. Stone edge is different as it cites the spikes are rising from the ground.

Point being in every instance Tornadus has to use what is available to him so if this fight is in the sky or even standing on the clouds he's out of luck.

That said if he "grounds" Kaido then he should be able to use even earthquake. He may also take advantage of kaido's weakness to seawater, which is a way better idea then trying to compete with him physically.

So . . . where are they fighting?
 
The depictions across anime, the games and even the manga all vary for potentially all moves.

For example, look at the number of different ways tri-attack has been shown in the anime and the games... There are a lot of ways to use tri attack.

Stone edge at least has two depictions; manifesting rocks around the user then launching them like bullets, or summoning gigantic rock spikes underneath the opponent and either extending them until they hit or exploding them out of the ground.

Considering they can fly at 0.5c, they can probably take the fight anywhere regardless of where it starts. Landorus doesn't know Kaido's weakness though, even though Lando is rather intelligent, so he'll likely try to go for an independent win condition.
 
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