Kaguya Void Manip via ETSB

[DodoNova2]

well, I came across something very interesting, the description of ETSB, I read you

Expansive Truthseeker Orb (Þå¿Õ╝Áµ▒éÚüôþÄë, Bōchō Gudōdama) It is listed as a Kekkei Mōra, Ninjutsu. It says that she used the Divine Tree to absorb Chakra from all of the Shinobi and create a maximized (µÑÁÕñºÕîû) Truthseeker Orb. The equivalent (ÕÉîÒüÿþë®ÒüáÒüî, same/identical/similar) black orbs that appear behind Naruto's back when using Six Paths Sage Mode can't be compared to its dimensions. Comprised of all five elements and yin-yang, it had the power to obliterate the world and return it to nothing. Ôåæ Caption: Comprised of all Chakra natures, a vast, expanding mass is filled to the brim.Created to reshape the world, it was a huge mass of chaos.
	~ Naruto Databook - Expensive Truthseeker Orb​

Here is the Scan in Japanese, if you do not believe the description, I would look for a translated version directly

EDIT: please, no argument like "Databook = / = reliable" or "Lolhyperbole"

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Hmm this is interesting. Surprised I never noticed this.

The descriptions seem pretty explicit. I can agree to this being added.

I'll see what other people say though.

 

[PaChi2]

Give her EE and be done with it.

 

[Reppuzan]

Nope.

ETSB is literally a giant TSB, that's all it is. The greatest feat TSBs have shown is the ability to reduce things to dust.

 

[PaChi2]

Nope.

ETSB is literally a giant TSB, that's all it is. The greatest feat TSBs have shown is the ability to reduce things to dust.

Technically, its better than something that reduces things to atoms, so that's something to consider. But eh.

 

[Omimi]

Nope.
ETSB is literally a giant TSB, that's all it is. The greatest feat TSBs have shown is the ability to reduce things to dust.

TSB (without Yin―Yang Release) = dust

TSB (with Yin―Yang Release) = erase

tobirama said that if we(sm naruto and tobirama) teleport behind him carelessly, we(sm

naruto and tobirama) might get erased. both tobirama and minato said that TSB (with Yin―Yang Release) can erase. so is there any reason to deny this .

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

It blatently says erase, nothing and so on.

I'm pretty sure that's more than enough.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kukui

What makes it so special that it acts fundamentally different from a literally identical technique?

Its composition is exactly the same as a regular Truth Seeking Ball, there's no reason why it would suddenly have different properties.

 

[LordGinSama]

Gotta agree with Repp here. Whenever the best feats of destruction TSBs have is turning things to dust I don't think a bigger version of the same technique would count as Void manipulation.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

well it erases and recreates a new world. Narrated by Zetsu in the story to boot

 

[Reppuzan]

@Tenshin

It's explicitly stated to have effects similar to Dust Release.

That's not existence erasure.

 

[Kepekley23]

@Rep

Dust Release erases things on a molecular level, and TSB >>>>>>>>>> Dust Release is stated.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kep

Kep, being able to pulverize things smaller than molecules is still Matter Manipulation. There isn't a sudden jump to Void Manipulation.

Hiruzen, one of the most intelligent and well-practiced shinobi in the franchise, explicitly states that it acts like Dust Release.

 

[Kepekley23]

I was not actually arguing for Void Manipulation, I was correcting what you said about it only pulverizing things.

Hiruzen actually said Obito's TSBs were far better than a kekkei tota. The only kekkei tota in the series is Dust Release.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

Reppu. . .go to the next page. Cause the page you showed was talking about fluidness of the shape


Cause Kep states it ^

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kepek

And that still doesn't justify Void Manipulation. Since better than Matter Manipulation is still Matter Manipulation.

There is still literally no reason why erasure should be accepted when all other showings for Truth Seeking Orbs don't do anything remotely resembling existence erasure.

 

[Kepekley23]

That's what I said, Rep...

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

They erased the soul arms of Minato. . .

And Kep was not arguing with you about Void Manipulation

 

[Reppuzan]

@Tenshin

Nope.

Destroyed Minato's arms sure. But they weren't erased. TSBs have the ability to disrupt Edo Tensei technique, preventing the target from regenerating. So when Minato's arms were destroyed, they stayed destroyed.

That's a far cry from being erased.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

The one problem I'm having with this right now is we're comparing the ETSB with REGULAR TSB's which is very wrong.

 

[Joseph619]

They erased the soul arms of Minato. . .

And Kep was not arguing with you about Void Manipulation

It's brcause TSB nullifies ninjutsu, and Edo tensei is a ninjutsu, that was Minato was not able to grow his arm back.

 

[LordGinSama]

@Kakui

It's still matter manipulation at the end of the day. Nowhere near void manipulation or existence erasure.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

. . . Tobirama stated it, If Minato gets hit with truth-seeking orbs he will die permanantly



And here we see Minato's soul and his arms are stil gone

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kukui

All an Expansive Truth Seeking Orb is a giant Truth Seeking Orb. That's it.

@Tenshin

Still not buying it. TSBs were never stated to interact with the soul and those parts of Minato's soul could have simply gone back to the afterlife after the vessel supporting them was damaged.

 

[Omimi]

@Kepek
And that still doesn't justify Void Manipulation. Since better than Matter Manipulation is still Matter Manipulation.

There is still literally no reason why erasure should be accepted when all other showings for Truth Seeking Orbs don't do anything remotely resembling existence erasure.

(copy-past) TSB (without Yin―Yang Release) = dust

TSB (with Yin―Yang Release) = erase

tobirama said that if we(sm naruto and tobirama) teleport behind him carelessly, we(sm

naruto and tobirama) might get erased. both tobirama and minato said that TSB (with Yin―Yang Release) can erase. so is there any reason to deny this .



@Knightofannihilation666

both tobirama and minato said that TSB (with Yin―Yang Release) can ERASE

even thou we have canon statmant for TSB(with Yin―Yang Release) as Void Manipulation/ existence erasure' so why deny it

 

[Omimi]

@Kukui
What makes it so special that it acts fundamentally different from a literally identical technique?

Its composition is exactly the same as a regular Truth Seeking Ball, there's no reason why it would suddenly have different properties.

but TSB always had erasure properties

 

[Reppuzan]

Yin-Yang Release doesn't constitute automatic existence erasure. It extends from everything from summoning to Tailed Beast Bombs to teleportation techniques.

Because they never say existence erasure. They're not specific enough for it to quantify when it's already stated to act like known matter hax.

 

[Ezeriot]

Nope.

ETSB is literally a giant TSB, that's all it is. The greatest feat TSBs have shown is the ability to reduce things to dust.

Technically, its better than something that reduces things to atoms, so that's something to consider. But eh.

In the manga, Ohnoki's ability is stated to be "almost molecular," not atomization.

 

[Omimi]

Yin-Yang Release doesn't constitute automatic existence erasure. It extends from everything from summoning to Tailed Beast Bombs to teleportation techniques.
Because they never say existence erasure. They're not specific enough for it to quantify when it's already stated to act like known matter hax.

tobirama did thou

tobirama said that if we(sm naruto and tobirama) teleport behind him carelessly, we(sm naruto and tobirama) might get erased

point is even sm naruto wouldve earased

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

Truth-Seeking balls is made of all five natures, and Imbued with Yin-Yang can cause permanent erasure.

Tobirama states that if Minato gets hit he will die. He even stated that his arm could be permannetly gone and that is proven when we see Minato's soul.

 

[Omimi]

In the manga, Ohnoki's ability is stated to be "almost molecular," not atomization.

note sure but only viz translation said molecular

other translation didn't say anything about molecular

if someone had raw manga that would be great

 

[Reppuzan]

@Tenshin

Prove it.

Show me a single scan where they say existence erasure.

They're already dead. If their Edo Tensei bodies are destroyed they go back to the afterlife. Thus they "die."

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

Omimi just told you. If they teleport behind them carelessly they would get erased

Your being deniable when the facts and feats are there.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Tenshin

They not specific enough about the erasure.

If their bodies are erased, they die. But it's never specified whether they're simply "reduced to nothing" by being torn into elementary particles or if they're actually expunged from existence.

You're the one making the claim, bring up a scan that has anything that specifically dictates existence erasure.

 

[DMUA]

Show me a single scan where they say existence erasure.

If I understand your logic correctly, we need to remove existence erasure from Beerus because Hakai is never stated to be existence erasure?

It's blaitently stating that they'll get erased, so I don't know what else you want here.

 

[Reppuzan]

And yet one of the smartest characters in the entire franchise explicitly compares its effects to Matter Manipulation.

 

[Omimi]

@Tenshin
They not specific enough about the erasure.

If their bodies are erased, they die. But it's never specified whether they're simply "reduced to nothing" by being torn into elementary particles or if they're actually expunged from existence.

You're the one making the claim, bring up a scan that has anything that specifically dictates existence erasure.

we did post a scan that specifically dictates existence erasure


here red box---------------------------------------------------------->

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

@DMUA he wants to be specific, despite all the evidence in contrast

 

[Reppuzan]

@Tenshin

Because we have contrasting statements about their effects.

Both Hokages are making hypotheses, but I'm inclined to agree with Hiruzen more given that the latter was known for his ability to pick apart techniques with a glance.

Also, where did this translation come from?

 

[Omimi]

And yet one of the smartest characters in the entire franchise explicitly compares its effects to Matter Manipulation.

and same smartest characters in the entire franchise also compares its effects to existence erasure