Juujika No Rokunin downgrade

[Dinozxd]

Recently read through the entirety of the series and realized how most calculations that were accepted had big flaws.

Attack Potency/Durability Calculations​

Ganno Cracks Wall: The calculation blog has one rejection and one acceptance from CGMs and It's still on the verse page for some reason.

Uruma Lifts Tree: The source presented in the calculation blog itself states that the force required to uproot a tree is 60 kN (the reference for common feats page corrects that information as well) while the value of 75.3 kN has been accepted for some reason. This information affects both the Lifting Strength and AP results.

Speed Calculations:​

Uruma blitzes Ganno: The calculation suggests that Uruma is about 8 times faster than Ganno when they are obviously comparable (Ganno even outspeeds Uruma in some of scenes) whole throughout their fight.

Uruma Sr blitzes Miguel: The "Distance ater blitz" part of the calculation is wrong (that part doesn't have any linked pixel scaling on it so I'm assuming that's it's the third scan of this imgur post) as It's Miguel (the guy with the beard) who moves there, not Uruma Sr. Only taking his arm movement is fine here.
Edit: The feat got recalced here.

Uruma Sr "saves" Kakeru: DMUA himself stated that using 12.43 m/s for the speed in this calculation would be wrong here and the caluclation is in the verse page even though it wasn't fixed.
Edit: Well, Andou (the guy with the chainsaw) and Uruma Sr are comparable to each other when the calc suggests that Uruma Sr is much faster than the guy. This pretty much invalidates the calculation.

Uruma escapes Kuga: Same problem as the "Uruma blitzes Ganno" calculation. Uruma and Kuga are pretty much comparable even though the calculation suggests that the speed difference between them is about 11x.

Uruma blitzes girl: The calculation uses Subsonic reactions for a non fighter character in the series because:

"I'm using 0.029 since this girl is strong compared to other character like Senkouji who can dodge speeding cars. Which is Subsonic."

The "Subsonic" rating in question is from a calculation blog that was never evaluated. This in turn means that the timeframe used in this calculation is wrong. I think using Average Human reactions for this character (as she has never done any fighting throughout the series and also has no narrative around her that makes her strong) would be more accurate.

Uruma blitzes King: This calculation has the same flaw of using Subsonic reactions for a non-fighter character in the series but that's not the only flaw. The guy who Uruma "blitzes" literally reacts to him in the feat.


Staff Approvals: Mr._Bambu (Neutral about the Uruma escapes Kuga one), DarkDragonMedeus

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Posting here to try and remind myself. It's Christmas, so, busy times. Sorry.

 

[Dinozxd]

Posting here to try and remind myself. It's Christmas, so, busy times. Sorry.

No problem at all! Thank you for being thoughtful.

 

[Zefra3011]

Uruma blitzes King: This calculation has the same flaw of using Subsonic reactions for a non-fighter character in the series but that's not the only flaw. The guy who Uruma "blitzes" literally reacts to him in the feat.

Mh, he doesn't really react to the Attack, he sees Uruma standing there and by the time he says "Who?!" Uruma basically reaches him, if you account for him to react to the attack with an "Who?!" (Which is weird) he still reacted when the attacks was extremely close to him so at best you would Just remove that distance.

 

[Dinozxd]

Mh, he doesn't really react to the Attack, he sees Uruma standing there and by the time he says "Who?!" Uruma basically reaches him, if you account for him to react to the attack with an "Who?!" (Which is weird) he still reacted when the attacks was extremely close to him so at best you would Just remove that distance.

The thing is though, he was still able to barely move after Uruma started moving which is weird when the calc suggests a full perception blitz.

Also, there is still the problem of using Subsonic reactions for King in that calc.

 

[Dinozxd]

@Zefra3011 What do you think about the other stuff btw? You're probably the only active supporter this verse has atm.

 

[Zefra3011]

The thing is though, he was still able to barely move after Uruma started moving which is weird when the calc suggests a full perception blitz.

Mh, he doesn't really react to the Attack, he sees Uruma standing there and by the time he says "Who?!" Uruma basically reaches him

The "Who?!" suggests he reacted to Uruma standing there and not Uruma dashing at him, you can "barely move" if you reacted at something earlier than the thing that blitzed you

Also, there is still the problem of using Subsonic reactions for King in that calc.

that's fair, King is not a fighter or anything so 0,2 or 0,13 is better.

@Zefra3011 What do you think about the other stuff btw? You're probably the only active supporter this verse has atm.

Uruma Sr "saves" Kakeru: DMUA himself stated that using 12.43 m/s for the speed in this calculation would be wrong here and the caluclation is in the verse page even though it wasn't fixed.

The main problem is the distance between Uruma's brother and the chainsaw, it looks very close at first but later you see it's far away, it also account for the chainsaw's movement to reach the little guy, when, well, it didn't, it's likely that he just moved earlier which would be common sense since he wanted to save him, I don't think it's a feat basically.

anyway yeah, Juujika needs a revision, I'm fine with the OP overall

 

[Dinozxd]

The "Who?!" suggests he reacted to Uruma standing there and not Uruma dashing at him, you can "barely move" if you reacted at something earlier than the thing that blitzed you

makes sense I guess.

The main problem is the distance between Uruma's brother and the chainsaw, it looks very close at first but later you see it's far away, it also account for the chainsaw's movement to reach the little guy, when, well, it didn't, it's likely that he just moved earlier which would be common sense since he wanted to save him, I don't think it's a feat basically.

Oh, never thought of this. I should add this to the OP before Bambu checks it.

anyway yeah, Juujika needs a revision, I'm fine with the OP overall

I'm planning on making a CRT similar to this one. It seems to be hella derailed with all the Supersonic Reo stuff (I agree that it was bad btw, that stuff was wanked to hell) even though it looks like a really crucial CRT for the verse.

 

[Dinozxd]

Bump

 

[Dinozxd]

bump 2x (hope this doesn't get ignored like past JNR threads)

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

My guy got no chill

 

[RoggerReggor]

I think the OP is pretty promising. But I will still wait for Clout (if he's not left the wiki permanently because he's very inactive) and again, some of the problems of these calcs are that they aren't either properly evaluated (having partial CGM acceptances and otherwise) or don't have any evaluations at all.

Do we even have any active JNR supporters at this point bruh?

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

MY MAN DINO COOKED

Agree with the thread

 

[Dinozxd]

But I will still wait for Clout (if he's not left the wiki permanently because he's very inactive)

I think he was active when we got the "bullet dodging" feat but I don't think he has been active since then.

 

[Zefra3011]

I don't think he is active so as far as I'm aware I'm the only supporter "active" atm (not like I did much for the verse until now).

My suggestion for this thread is to nuke any feat in the OP other than:

- Uruma Lifts Tree, the feat itself doesn't really need to be calced and should just link the common feat value.

- Uruma Sr blitzes Miguel and Uruma blitzes King: are the best feats in terms of speed, the characters don't even grew much in power so there is no need to calc everytime Uruma blitzes someone and the King's one is his best feat.

I can calc them properly with reasonable timeframes + maybe the new feats in the recent chapters are worth a calc, I'll take a deeper look into them.


I also would like to add different rating for when he "uses" his rage power, he truly becomes both stronger and faster but I'll do a CRT for that.

 

[RoggerReggor]

- Uruma Sr blitzes Miguel and Uruma blitzes King: are the best feats in terms of speed, the characters don't even grew much in power so there is no need to calc everytime Uruma blitzes someone and the King's one is his best feat.

I think the part where he blitzes Miguel is a good thing, but the part where he blitzes King is somehow irrelevant after DMUA's thread regarding reaction timeframes.

 

[Dinozxd]

Uruma Sr blitzes Miguel

I think the timeframe isn't the only thing wrong with this calc. I have my reasonings in the OP as well.

I can calc them properly with reasonable timeframes + maybe the new feats in the recent chapters are worth a calc.

I was planning on doing that but I would appreciate it if you can do that as well.

 

[Zefra3011]

I think the part where he blitzes Miguel is a good thing,

yeah, the problem with that feat is that entirely only scales to Uruma's grandad since Uruma himself is blitzed so while the feat is impressive at the same time it's "bad" for the general powerscaling of the verse

but the part where he blitzes King is somehow irrelevant after DMUA's thread regarding reaction timeframes.

I'll just reduce the timeframe to 0,13 s, it still gives subsonic result which is great

I think the timeframe isn't the only thing wrong with this calc. I have my reasonings in the OP as well.

the feat is bad calced overall, I'll make sure to do a decent job, the feat itself is valid

I was planning on doing that but I would appreciate it if you can do that as well.

I'll do it as soon as I have time <3

 

[RoggerReggor]

The best thing to do is to use 80 milliseconds for the Miguel calc (or I think just go for a human perception timeframe which will give more accurate and higher results) because it is actually very good and actually follows what blitzing is. The other calc where he blitzes King should not even go for the 80 milliseconds thing to be fair. King looks like reacting to the attack imo.

 

[RoggerReggor]

I'll just reduce the timeframe to 0,13 s, it still gives subsonic result which is great

How strong was King again? Iirc he's not displayed as a combatant that much.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Yeah I agree with the thread. Shame this manga fell off after the timeskip

 

[Zefra3011]

The best thing to do is to use 80 milliseconds for the Miguel calc (or I think just go for a human perception timeframe which will give more accurate and higher results) because it is actually very good and actually follows what blitzing is. The other calc where he blitzes King should not even go for the 80 milliseconds thing to be fair. King looks like reacting to the attack imo.

King isn't a fighter, I would use 0,13 and not 0,2 just because he should still be stronger than the average guy and 0,13 isn't that absurd even for an average people, anyway no, king doesn't react to the attack, he says "who?" after seeing Uruma standing there so he basically react at what happens before the attack when the attack is basically finished, if you argue he reacted at the attack he still did it when the attack was almost finished meaning Uruma could still move 95% of the distance without him reacting, remember that there is a distance over 5m between them, if he geniuely reacted at the attack he could do something other than say "who?" and wait for the attack to reach him

 

[Zefra3011]

Uruma Sr "saves" Kakeru: DMUA himself stated that using 12.43 m/s for the speed in this calculation would be wrong here and the caluclation is in the verse page even though it wasn't fixed.

now that I re read the chapter, even if the old man has the upper hand they are relative.

 

[RoggerReggor]

King isn't a fighter, I would use 0,13 and not 0,2 just because he should still be stronger than the average guy and 0,13 isn't that absurd even for an average people, anyway no, king doesn't react to the attack, he says "who?" after seeing Uruma standing there so he basically react at what happens before the attack when the attack is basically finished, if you argue he reacted at the attack he still did it when the attack was almost finished meaning Uruma could still move 95% of the distance without him reacting, remember that there is a distance over 5m between them, if he geniuely reacted at the attack he could do something other than say "who?" and wait for the attack to reach him

Sorry, I thought he was saying "Huh?" or something because it was in a different language, I translated it and yeah, it says "Who?". But I don't think we can say 95% distance coverage for sure. If King has an offensive attitude, then I think we should go with this, but he genuinely looks like he's more of afraid and not having any reaction problems here. But the granddad feat is legit very good tbh.

 

[Zefra3011]

you don't really react with "who?!" to an attack, unless he wanted to know the name of the knife that he asked it, jokes aside, I still think it's a blitz, if not, there is a better feat in the last chapter so it's fine.

 

[Dinozxd]

now that I re read the chapter, even if the old man has the upper hand they are relative.

Added this to the OP. Thanks for helping out.

 

[Zefra3011]

Juujika no Rokunin: the old man blitzes Miguel

vsbattles.fandom.com

as It's Miguel (the guy with the beard) who moves there, not Uruma Sr. Only taking his arm movement is fine here.

mh, the whole feat is presented as the old man being able to "teleport" compared to Miguel's speed, it would be really weird if Miguel would be the one moving the highest distance, I think it's evident Miguel only moved his arm while the old man outright "teleported" behind him.

 

[Dinozxd]

mh, the whole feat is presented as the old man being able to "teleport" compared to Miguel's speed, it would be really weird if Miguel would be the one moving the highest distance, I think it's evident Miguel only moved his arm while the old man outright "teleported" behind him.

Oh I just realized that Uruma Sr has motion lines on his whole body so he likely teleported from one place to other like you suggested.

The calc looks fine so I'll add it to the OP so Bambu can evaluate that as well when he has time.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Juujika no Rokunin: the old man blitzes Miguel

vsbattles.fandom.com

I think the speed is great, but the KE and LS wouldn't be much. He didn't swing Uruma but just lifted him up and then teleported right behind Miguel. While yeah, that's LS, but it would just require the same amount of force as lifting him, which would be Uruma's weight.

 

[Dinozxd]

I agree with Rogger about the KE and LS ends of the calc.

 

[Dinozxd]

bump

 

[Dinozxd]

bump

 

[Dinozxd]

bump

 

[Dinozxd]

bump

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Bump

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Ganno Cracks Wall: The calculation blog has one rejection and one acceptance from CGMs and It's still on the verse page for some reason.

Uruma Lifts Tree: The source presented in the calculation blog itself states that the force required to uproot a tree is 60 kN (the reference for common feats page corrects that information as well) while the value of 75.3 kN has been accepted for some reason. This information affects both the Lifting Strength and AP results.

Both seem sensible. Agree.

Uruma blitzes Ganno: The calculation suggests that Uruma is about 8 times faster than Ganno when they are obviously comparable (Ganno even outspeeds Uruma in some of scenes) whole throughout their fight.

Looked through the fight scene and you appear to be correct.

Uruma Sr blitzes Miguel: The "Distance ater blitz" part of the calculation is wrong (that part doesn't have any linked pixel scaling on it so I'm assuming that's it's the third scan of this imgur post) as It's Miguel (the guy with the beard) who moves there, not Uruma Sr. Only taking his arm movement is fine here.
Edit: The feat got recalced here.

This new calc hasn't been evaluated and I don't want to do it

Uruma Sr "saves" Kakeru: DMUA himself stated that using 12.43 m/s for the speed in this calculation would be wrong here and the caluclation is in the verse page even though it wasn't fixed.
Edit: Well, Andou (the guy with the chainsaw) and Uruma Sr are comparable to each other when the calc suggests that Uruma Sr is much faster than the guy. This pretty much invalidates the calculation.

It wasn't accepted to begin with so it doesn't even really need invalidation.

Uruma escapes Kuga: Same problem as the "Uruma blitzes Ganno" calculation. Uruma and Kuga are pretty much comparable even though the calculation suggests that the speed difference between them is about 11x.

Are they actually comparable? This one seems significantly more one-sided.

Uruma blitzes girl: The calculation uses Subsonic reactions for a non fighter character in the series because:

"I'm using 0.029 since this girl is strong compared to other character like Senkouji who can dodge speeding cars. Which is Subsonic."

The "Subsonic" rating in question is from a calculation blog that was never evaluated. This in turn means that the timeframe used in this calculation is wrong. I think using Average Human reactions for this character (as she has never done any fighting throughout the series and also has no narrative around her that makes her strong) would be more accurate.

Fair enough, agree with striking it from the record.

Uruma blitzes King: This calculation has the same flaw of using Subsonic reactions for a non-fighter character in the series but that's not the only flaw. The guy who Uruma "blitzes" literally reacts to him in the feat.

Hesitantly agree. There's some vagueness about that "reaction" but he seems to begin to pull his head back, so... sure.

 

[Dinozxd]

Are they actually comparable? This one seems significantly more one-sided.

It's this scene more specifically. The guy which Uruma has to be 11 times faster than pretty much rushes and grabs him before he can react. Of course, Uruma is still faster, but not as fast as this calculation suggests imo.

This new calc hasn't been evaluated and I don't want to do it

Is the debunk valid or?

 

[Dinozxd]

Thanks for the evaluation, btw.

 

[Dinozxd]

bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

My thoughts are the same as Bambu's