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Julius Belmont Vs Kisidan

Antoniofer

Antoniofer

VS Battles
Retired
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1,999
Is the the Strongest Vampire Hunter vs Strongest Praetorian: Julius Belmont VS Kisidan.

SBA except that battle takes place in Targoviste, and each fighters start at 50 meters from each other. Speed is equalized.

Nuff say, both fighters have access to all their standard equipment.
 
Following. How high into 2-C is Kisidan, and are any of his abilities layered or higher-dimensional considering Julius resists all of his better hax?
 
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Kisidan does not have much hax at his disposal, his Natura/Gnosis advantages work more as a "plot armor" than anything, like increasing the odds for more effective attacks an such, so is something that directly affect their opponent. Other Natura/Gnosis advantages are more defensive than anything, including messing up with precognition or being unaffected by attempts in messing up with reality and his personal fate.

As having a demigod status, he is considered to have the Gnosis of a... welp, a demigod (35), but only at the moment to cause damage; that means it can surpass existential barriers of certain beings, or bypass some gnostic-based invulnerabilities. Given that Julius is a mortal, doubt this will be kind of useful, as special invulnerabilities caused by magic still work (although given that Kisidan damages energy, he already ignores durability by default, and his katana reduces the defenses of protections, like bypassing certain levels of armor or causing more damage to supernatural shields).

Other powers, his ki techniques to be more accurate, are mostly attack speed amps and multiple attacks stacking, while his Liberation of Soul allows him to [erform attack independent of him, right before the opponent could perform an action; even if somehow sorprised, the attack still takes effect, although right after the opponent's action. He can also go Super Saiyan and increase his combat ability even further.
 
He scales from Ergo Mundus, that is considered to be capable to destroy existance; at what level of 2-C does that put him on is unknown too me (not to well versed at those tiers), but I believe existance is considered at least the material real and the Wake.

As for the Awakening, in terms outside of game may be tricky to measure, but it grants a bonus of +35 to all Kisidan actions, with such stat difference it can turn a matched combat in a clear advantage (passes from a Difficult encounter to a Medium encounter). The Awakening has a duration of 87 seconds, or until the ki reserves are emptied.
 
Antoniofer said:
He scales from Ergo Mundus, that is considered to be capable to destroy existance; at what level of 2-C does that put him on is unknown too me (not to well versed at those tiers), but I believe existance is considered at least the material real and the Wake.

As for the Awakening, in terms outside of game may be tricky to measure, but it grants a bonus of +35 to all Kisidan actions, with such stat difference it can turn a matched combat in a clear advantage (passes from a Difficult encounter to a Medium encounter). The Awakening has a duration of 87 seconds, or until the ki reserves are emptied.
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ah yeah sorry I forgot castlevania was 2-C now

Just looking at the scaling chain for castlevania I’m pretty sure Julius has higher ap and durability although I don’t think he one shots and his durability doesn’t matter because of Juuchi Yosamu.

I have two more questions. First, after instinctually assessing Julius to be more powerful would Kisidan activate his liberation of soul or would he hold off like his weakness section says? Secondly, would Julius being able to effect both concepts and souls be enough to bypass Kisidan’s unconventional soul manip resist?
 
Yeah, durability is not quite a factor since Kisidan damages energy and attack both the form and essence of things.

Kisidan will consider whatever he faces a menace the moment the target survive or even avoid his First Art, then he goes all out; although, he does not necessary will summon the Jugeneth or Soul Weapon (at least, he didn't do that aginst Killrayne).

If something directly tries to alter his soul Kisidan will naturally have a right for a Resistance Check; although, if the hax works in the same way as damaging energy, like, simply punching his soul, he has no right to a check. Naturally, he can still defend normally against such attacks, and he also counts with protection for those attacks (both the longcoat and Jugeneth).
 
There's an option at the top right of OP to follow/unfollow, you do not need to comment to watch a thread.
 
So I'm assuming Kissidan scales to baseline? Because Julius scales to 18 timelines and can oneshot/negate his immortality and regen easily.
 
Given that I do not known how baselines are handled in Tier 2 and above, this is not something I can confirm. Although given he also ignores durability, Julius having more Dura advantage may not turn to be an issue, and Kisidan is fine as long as he can defend from attack, even if a direct attack may kill him.

Does Julius counts with some level of accelerated regeneration or immortality (at least that is combat applicable) that could prevents him from dying from direct hits?
 
From what I'm seeing Belmonts don't resist Dura Negation (They resist antimatter and deconstruction but I guess that wouldn't apply.) How skilled is Kisidan?
 
Theglassman12 said:
So I'm assuming Kissidan scales to baseline? Because Julius scales to 18 timelines and can oneshot/negate his immortality and regen easily.
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oh yeah I forgot the time reaper feat.
From what I can tell from reading the Anima page, the 2-Cs scale to three separate dimensions but again if Kisidan can also one shot with his dura neg then it seems to just become who hits first though I’m not sure about that because belmonts resist life and soul manipulation if that’s how the sword works, but if it’s more of like concept manip then Julius doesn’t resist that.
If it comes down to who hits first I think kisidan is more likely to do so because of his apparent thousands of years of experience and the first art’s speed amp which he seems to start with.
 
Well, a quick rundown is that he started to fight as a gladiator after having 7 years old; he survived 7 campaign battles, notable since he was a slave and those were put in the first line in such battles, feat that granted him freedom. Years later, he and his party took down a mad wizard and at that moment consumed the essence of a god of war and became even stronger. With the time was recluted by Imperium as a free agent, a Godkiller, doing his work as executioner with no issue during centuries.
 
Alright well Julius is referred to as the strongest of all the Belmonts, who defeated Dracula for good who in life was a renowned military commander during the crusades alongside Julius's ancestor Leon. Leon was a skilled knight that was stated to be second to none in combat since being knighted at the age of 16 who can fodder this enemy and battle a perfect duplicate of himself more than once. Keep in mind that Leon had no real experience with the supernatural till that night yet he faced off against these monsters and bested them.

Each Belmont afterwards was trained in the ways of combatting the beings of the night thus putting them above Leon, with Julius being the best. Dracula was also skilled in combat not only fighting the Belmonts through the centuries but also being the one who taught Alucard how to wield a blade and his reincarnation Soma Cruz was naturally proficient with a wide array of weapons despite being up to that point a normal teenager. So Belmonts are no stranger to blade users given Trevor and Richter canonically have at least fought Alucard to some extent and Julius fought alongside him and battled Soma.

Belmonts generally fight from a distance with their whips and sub weapons, though they're more than capable of CQC if needed. From what I see Julius could disarm Kisidan of his sword if that's a thing (Immeasurable LS vs Class 5) I'm leaning on Incon right now, considering both have resists but can slap the other in one hit its a toss up to me it seems.
 
After reading kisidan’s character sheet it seems that he doesn’t start with the first art or any other ki attack and would only use it when pressed so it seems like more of a toss up for me now too. If they do get into a situation where he chooses to use the first art I think he is likely to win of his sword can one shot. But on the other side of the coin if Julius decides to use Grand Cross it would must likely suck kisidan in and obliterate him without a problem but I don’t think Julius starts with that either.

Also if he’s disarmed I think he has another sword though I don’t know if it’s as good as his first one
 
Appleztree said:
Also if he’s disarmed I think he has another sword though I don’t know if it’s as good as his first one
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His Soul Weapon is overall better as its one level of Quality above and attacks in energy (generally bypassing most protections), but both weapons possesses the same level of Fortitude and Capability to pierce through defenses. The difference is that the Soul Weapon does not have the improved AoE (something not really necessary in this fight, as that is used when fighting enemy masses) and do not possesses a ki storage (although, the new ki storage would come from his Jugeneth).
 
@Antoniofer he can heal from stab wounds as can other belmonts so there's that, and his regen can't be nulled easily since their dopplegangers can't nullify their regen. As for tier 2 scaling, whatever amount of timelines they can destroy is what they scale to, and anyone who destroys more or less is infinitely stronger and weaker respectively. So if kisidan only scales to 3 timelines he's kinda ****** if Julius lands a single blow.

@Appleztree Julius does resist concept hax, it's part of the belmont resistances. And Julius has beaten beings with massive amounts of experience in the past like Dracula and Death.
 
I guess thinking it over I'll probably vote Julius actually, Kisidan's main wincon seems to be to land a lethal blow with dura negation.

The problem is its with a sword versus a guy with a whip and several sub weapons, all of which can paste Kisidan with one hit. Even if he lands the hit assuming its not in a fatal spot Julius can probably regen it and do his Akuma flash step into grand cross.

Voting Julius here 6/10 atm
 
So I undertand that Julius may one shot Kisidan; however, in order to kill him one Julius need to inflict a direct hit, that may not be easy in a speed equalized match.

If Kisidan notuce that Julius hits leave a clear hole within his body be may as well try to end the fight quickly (given Kisidan ability to withstand pain and the Elimination of Penalties ki abilitiy, a hole shouldn't do much unless it sever a limb or made in a vulnerable point). Alternative means he may use the Awakening, and and then summon his Imperium equipment and then charge either use the Liberation of Soul or charge Niabat Ean Lucia, although the entire process take some time, between 9 to 12 seconds (game time), or 12 to 15. If time is really a factor, he can dexide to not transform and use the special equipment and instead push Niabat Ean Lucia (increasing its effectivity by a 50%), but yet that will cost him 3 to 6 seconds.

Without a good defense, is possible Julius is unable to survive Niabat Ean Lucia given its 3 simultaneous slashes at with a great bonus (+150 to attack, or +225 if pushes and one additional attack). But I believe everything reduces if Kisidan can survive up to 15 seconds against Julius.
 
I mean the Belmonts are no stranger to aiming for the head, just look at most boss fights with Dracula. Plus he'll be chucking subweapons like axes, daggers, holy water and boomeranging crosses as well as fighting from a distance with his whip the entire time and not letting himself be too close. Plus I know it says Kisidan resists TK, but Julius can drag in Soma with his Grand Cross who has immeasurable LS so I want to say that he'd be pulled in due to being beyond whatever TK was apparently used in Kisidan's verse unless I get a citation.
 
Dracula do not even defends during those fight, and his combat tactics are extremely limited, so I would not consider the in-game combat to accurately represent the real fight. In any case, Kisidan also counts with the Second Art to counter multiple incoming attacks in case Belmont can really span multiple of these.
 
Dracula has combat applicable invulnerability that lets him laugh off attacks unless you hit his head regardless so my point still stands there though, the reason those fights are limited are because of older games. He mixes things up a lot more in later titles and also teleport spams a lot. Yes Belmonts can spam their attacks and set up traps in advance to ensure their opponents are tagged from one of two options. AP gap is still real enough for one shot and Julius can clap him regardless while having the regen to survive stab wounds. Also Kisidan won't be able to use Info Analyse as Belmonts resist that so he might not know how much of a threat this guy with a whip is right away.
 
Kisidan's info analysis is more an instinct rather than a supernatural ability, plus he will deem someone a threat the moment it survive or dodge his First Art; although, he does have ki detection and erudition that allows him to gauge the strength of his opponent (although ability si kind of vague in that regard, as, is does not specify what strength means in that sense, if its only martial ability or if it also counts magic/psychic/summoning abilities). He also has how conceal his ki, although given Julius does not have a form of supernatural detection, I don't think that ability is relevant here.
 
Fair enough if its vague we can ignore it, Julius like other Belmonts can sense monsters naturally like Leon can and the whip can detect those trying to hide their presence and power as well as those from a distance if that's any help. Can I get a citation in regards to resistance to TK? Julius has Immeasurable LS with Grand Cross compared to Kisidan's feats, unless I can get a feat from his verse that helps prove good enough resistances I'd say he should still be sucked in.
 
Effects like Organic Telekinesis can be resisted. However, there's some discrepancies, there's few TK effects that can't be resisted, such Telekinetic Trapping, it can be defended against, but if it impact the target then instead of a resistance check its a Attribute check (either Strength or Agility). If Grand Cross works in the same way as Void (Destruction spell Lv 90), most likely Kisidan can't stand the dragging if the force is too great.
 
@Antoniofer he does defend in some of the games, so does several other enemies and even doppelgängers that they fight and they’re still able to circumvent around their defenses to get a good shot in. Also it’s not a hole in the body, julius would have him explode in flames and his body would be gone in one hit given the vampire killer can do that. That and the vampire killer has some layered power nullification and statistics reduction since it can weaken Dracula’s castle.

as for defense Julius can phase through Kisidan and his attacks with Omnia Vanitas, that and if Kisidan tries to get close he can nuke him with grand cross which will pull him in and screw him over.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Julius does resist concept hax, it's part of the belmont resistances. And Julius has beaten beings with massive amounts of experience in the past like Dracula and Death.
Click to expand...
I don’t see it on the Belmont bloodline page but it’s possible I’m just missing it

Antoniofer said:
Effects like Organic Telekinesis can be resisted. However, there's some discrepancies, there's few TK effects that can't be resisted, such Telekinetic Trapping, it can be defended against, but if it impact the target then instead of a resistance check its a Attribute check (either Strength or Agility). If Grand Cross works in the same way as Void (Destruction spell Lv 90), most likely Kisidan can't stand the dragging if the force is too great.
Click to expand...
What resistance check is used to stop telekinesis because if it’s strength then it’s class 5 vs immeasurable
 
Yeah there's fodder enemies that guard attacks too like dead crusader as an example. Looking at the book of destruction I want to say Grand Cross could match it, here's a scan of Julius using it. It can draw in spiritual matter too considering it works on ghosts in Julius Mode iirc plus in the background you can see chunks of the castle breaking off, said castle is a creature of chaos in and of itself so there's also that.
 
Theglassman12 said:
as for defense Julius can phase through Kisidan and his attacks with Omnia Vanitas, that and if Kisidan tries to get close he can nuke him with grand cross which will pull him in and screw him over.
Click to expand...
To add to this, even characters with NPI and every hax under the sun like Soma can’t harm Julius while using Omnia Vanitas.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Also it’s not a hole in the body, julius would have him explode in flames and his body would be gone in one hit given the vampire killer can do that. That and the vampire killer has some layered power nullification and statistics reduction since it can weaken Dracula’s castle.
Click to expand...
Did that only worked against creatures of the night? Or to make it more general, supernatural creatures? Kisidan is considered a mortal (he is a natural being).
Appleztree said:
What resistance check is used to stop telekinesis because if it’s strength then it’s class 5 vs immeasurable
Click to expand...
PhR (physical resistance), but I do not thing Grand Cross work as that psychic power.
 
Antoniofer said:
Did that only worked against creatures of the night? Or to make it more general, supernatural creatures? Kisidan is considered a mortal (he is a natural being).

PhR (physical resistance), but I do not thing Grand Cross work as that psychic power.
Click to expand...
Yeah there's witches (As in normal humans that use magic) that serve as foes in AoS and DoS and it works just fine iirc
 
 
Reading through Omnia Vanitas it sounds more like a doging/speed boost ability than something that make the character invinsible (avoid being harmed by enemies is more about avoiding them that making oneself invulnerable or intangible).
Theglassman12 said:
@Antoniofer works on anyone given he can literally set the whip ablaze and burn anyone who gets hit by it.
Click to expand...
I see, although I wouldn't consider this to be a guarenteed one-shot even if the hit is indirect tho.
 
Stillwinston said:
Yeah there's witches (As in normal humans that use magic) that serve as foes in AoS and DoS and it works just fine iirc
Click to expand...
Are witches within the Castle actually normal human that uses magic? In any case, what about humans that do not use magic?
 
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