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I'm busy tonight but I can probably send the relevant scans tomorrow.
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Jujutsu kaisen top tier speed downgrade
- Thread starter NARONG_SUVAN
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Nue lightning wasnt accepted as real lightning sadly
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- #163
Yes.
I think some characters ( like uraume and maki) should get supersonic+ as well but that will need another crt right?
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- #165
I recheck and sukuna , gojo , hakari will be on supersonic not supersonic+ they will scale from yuta
Sukuna (full power key) : At least Supersonic (even though he was in weakened state Sukuna can equally fought Okkotsu Yuta and believed to be able to kill him instantly if Sukuna was in perfect health.)
Gojo : At least Supersonic (Satoru Gojo is the fastest Jujutsu sorcerer of the modern era.[52] He can keep up with Full Power Sukuna, who faster than Okkotsu Yuta. Sukuna was impressed by Satoru's maneuverability even while he was enhanced by his Domain[3]), higher while using Domain Expansion, higher travel speed with Cursed Technique Lapse: Blue (Surprised a Domain-enhanced Sukuna with his speed[3])
Can’t figure wording out for hakari but I think he will scale from this
Sukuna (full power key) : At least Supersonic (even though he was in weakened state Sukuna can equally fought Okkotsu Yuta and believed to be able to kill him instantly if Sukuna was in perfect health.)
Gojo : At least Supersonic (Satoru Gojo is the fastest Jujutsu sorcerer of the modern era.[52] He can keep up with Full Power Sukuna, who faster than Okkotsu Yuta. Sukuna was impressed by Satoru's maneuverability even while he was enhanced by his Domain[3]), higher while using Domain Expansion, higher travel speed with Cursed Technique Lapse: Blue (Surprised a Domain-enhanced Sukuna with his speed[3])
Can’t figure wording out for hakari but I think he will scale from this
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I think we should wait for the arc to end. That was the plan since the begin after all
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- #167
I doesn’t disagree with this but can I ask why?
I don’t think current arc have anything to do with speed scaling because it’s scale from yuta ( who wasn’t even in his own body now so he have no way to gain new speed feat) even if hakari comeback and fight Sukuna his speed scaling will not change
Same go for gojo
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?
Ok.
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Why would you want to weaken your opponent instead of killing them? Kashimo also should be smart enough to not assume a sorcerer lacks RCT simply because they haven't shown it yet, JJK battles are all about concealment and outsmarting.
His movement demonstrates that he was in motion, not just standing still, in which case if he's capable of running as a lightning bolt is travelling at him then him moving his head out the way isn't insane.
Right, but if it had to move mid-air to hit him that implies Hakari moved out of its initial trajectory.
What evidence does Naobito have to place him above special grades in terms of speed?
I don't think Naobito scales to it, but even if I did Naobito was completely perception blitzing Dagon. Dagon only landed a hit once he blocked Naobito's vision and surprise attacked him.
This isn't how things work. Characters can amplify their combat speed to insane heights, doesn't mean they have to LIVE always in those speeds meaning when they're having conversations or whatever we don't need to assume they're speaking at their max speed to construct anti-feats. It's the same reason why the Flash having conversations with his enemies, allies, civilians, etc., aren't used as anti-feats.
Once again you're ignoring the fact that they weren't JUST fighting in that time period. You go on to say how we can use this to gain a "rough estimate" of their speed even if they were talking, being able to assume the ratio and whatnot, but you're adding so many assumptions into this. You're taking a scene with a time frame, constructing a bunch of assumptions to gain a possible distance travelled, then using that isolated incident to regard several feats of a higher end as outliers - I'm sorry that no one is taking you seriously here because why should we? We know the time frame, we don't know the distance, we see them demonstrate is clearer and more measurable ways higher end speed feats than you're proposing, why assume a distance to create contradictions for ourselves when they aren't necessitated by the story?
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There are speed feats way above supersonic. Pretty sure there were Hypersonic calcs even.
So downgrading gojo and Sukuna at supersonic+ is crazy.
^ I've also yet to see anybody talk about this so far to see if we could get this one replaced with Sun's calc of the feat.
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How many sorcerer can regrow a missing arm ? And doing it mid battle
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Most of time thats how it works. People wait for the arc to end and then create a big revision, like when One Piece supporters waited 2 years to revise Wano.
Plus theres a lot of piercing blood dodging feats in this arc that weren't calced
And iirc, there was already a speed revision being planned after the arc
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- #173
Can you link its?
Also I don’t want to discuss another calc in this thread so I just use what already get accepted
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- #174
Even kashimo assumes hakari can use RCT( something that we see no one from his era can do) it’s unreasonable to think he have RCT so advance that can heal entire arm before get shit stomp by kashimo or have enough CE left after heal entire arm
Taking out a arm is valid way to win again sorcerer
We have nothing that suggest hakari move when lightning already shooting.
Kashimo need time to adjust his stances and aim hakari can move in those time just because we didn’t see him in panel doesn’t mean he just standing still and wait for kashimo to shoot lightning
? I doesn’t understand this it’s move mid air doesn’t mean hakari move only mean starting point is higher than hakari shoulder
Fastest sorcerer after gojo satoru ( btw I think it’s mean that gojo only faster because teleport
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- #175
Well if that true then this thread doesn’t seem necessary I may close this tomorrow ( i gonna go to sleep now)
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There's doesn't need to be a large number for it to be a possibility, and I'm not even saying Kashimo should assume Hakari can do it I'm just saying it's stupid to hit someone's arm instead of their head and expect them to have no recourse. Not to mention Kashimo himself ironically regenerated the bottom half of his arm against Sukuna instantly.How many sorcerer can regrow a missing arm ? And doing it mid battle
Read above
Where has that been established?
We do, I outlined that he was not only in motion from his initial stance but he also visually reacted to it via his eyes.
Kashimo didn't need to adjust? It shot out instantly.
If the lightning is aimed at a part of Hakari's body it'll move straight towards that since that's what it's being drawn into for it to move, so if it has to change direction and trajectory that suggests the target was moved.
He has a reputation as the fastest, but what would that reputation include? Not Hakari, he's been suspended for a year, not Yuta, he's been training in Africa in secret after losing his special grade ability, not Yuki, she lives in secrecy beyond what even the higher ups know. His title is even brought into question, with Nanami, Mei Mei, and Gojo thinking Naobito is slower than Kusakabe who's abilities are very public information. So why would this act as an objective assessment?
This is just silly, Gojo can perception blitz Naobito tiers (Jogo) with combat speed, and other sorcerers can teleport without being considered faster (Todo and Ui Ui are big examples, Megumi can also pseudo-teleport with the shadows too).( btw I think it’s mean that gojo only faster because teleport
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- #177
I mean just use little media literacy you will known that you can win again equal opponents if he lost an arm also kashimo confidence that he can finish hakari here
Need or not it’s another story but he definitely adjust his stances here his head move up then next page he ready to running to hakari we also seeing hakari already move when he react to lightning he can just move before lightning get shoot out
If we use this line of logic then hakari should get hit no matter how he move out because lightning will follow his head
Because it get state by narrator? also if they are somehow 500 faster than their fastest this should be get mentioned.
I don’t recall anything about Kusakabe speed only his barrage that nana I say he can’t think someone who can evad that I don’t think nanami is reliable narrator and that doesn’t seem to be about speed alone because kusakabe can block Sukuna slash with his pseudo auto-hot
and other sorcerers can teleport without being considered faster (Todo and Ui Ui are big examples, Megumi can also pseudo-teleport with the shadows too).
Their teleport is true teleport gojo just traveling highspeed through reducing space ushering blue it’s even say that he have chances to hit some civilian if he ‘teleport’ in crowded areas
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- #178
He literally doesn’t expect that
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That fastest sorcerer after Gojo is only a so called "known to society" type of statement. It isn't a universal statement lol.Fastest sorcerer after gojo satoru ( btw I think it’s mean that gojo only faster because teleport
Also no he's the fastest not because of blue. Blue is simply just teleportation. It is not speed. Kusakabe debunked this long ago.
Heck Toji is blatantly >> these mf's. And gojo is blatantly above.
Oh sure we also need to be told how fast gojo is exactly right? No. Makes no sense.
Go read the manga. It is just blatant teleportation
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I once made a post about this even. There is all the evidence you need to know as to why the teleportation is teleportation. Not speed.
Kusakabe Blatantly refutes the notion of it being high speed movement. This is the retcon, and he along gojo is one of the two with the highest knowledge about his limitless, especially Gojo who also calls it teleportation various times. ->
"Compress space and coordinates". Infact this is a explicit reference to the getting it right extra pages. T-San says "scale to a point at infinity", "Sterographic projection" and "Compress space" and explains it the same way Kusakabe said compressing space and coordinates. Indeed Gege took this and applied what he had learned onto infinity.
Shunkan Idō 瞬間移動 literally means "teleportation", kind of instantaneous movement. This is the exact same word used for Goku's instant transmission, which is also described as teleportation
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Regrowing a limb is a hell of a feat according to Ryu so I guess only the top tiers can do that I guess. Gojo, Sukuna, Hakari, maybe Yuta and by extension Yuji.How many sorcerer can regrow a missing arm ? And doing it mid battle
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Kashimo can gain confidence from Hakari losing an arm, still doesn't explain why blowing off his arm would be an equal win con to blowing off his head.
Moving his head up doesn't really cohort with Hakari turning his body and initially a charge towards Kashimo, clearly the difference in stance and motion lines is to convey Hakari isn't be statue blitzed here, evident by how his eyes literally widen at the lightning showing reaction to us very blatantly.
No, something can be a homing attack and still be blocked or slightly evaded as to where it hits your arm instead of your head. If the lightning is already so close to Hakari and Hakari dashes out the way, it turning to match his head would be too slow before it reaches something like his shoulder for instance.
It's stated to be a reputation by the narrator, meaning it's not stated as an objective fact of the world merely a commonly believed thing. The reason why no one would mention otherwise is, as I've mentioned, all of the MHS+ characters are either no from this time period or completely unknown to everyone else.
Kusakabe blocking is him using his speed, and Naobito's statement is literally a reputation thing so idk how you can believe that his reputation is accurate but Nanami, Mei Mei, and Gojo are all "unreliable narrators".
He can both teleport and move at high speeds through the pull of blue, he's said to do both, and you're not engaging with the actual argument I made here.
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Kenjaku used RCT to regrow two arms against Yuki as well
Yuki also used RCT to heal a new arm after the gravity crush
Arkenis
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Kenjaku regrew his forearm, Yuki healed her arm. Neither are regrowing the arm like Uro would've had to do. And Ryu could just be speaking from knowledge on his era of RCT users not the modern era which also has/had only four rct users prior to the soul swaps.
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Sorcerers generally target rct users head.
Probably because there is a chance for you to get cracked on the verge of death when you try your absolute best to survive, aka gaining enlightenment. Shrug
Probably because there is a chance for you to get cracked on the verge of death when you try your absolute best to survive, aka gaining enlightenment. Shrug
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No big difference from Uro, and we are talking about limbs in general, not only about Uro
Thats what I said
Shut the **** up Arkenis
Yes, I don't care. I just said that most of the RCT users in the cast can regrow limbs
Arkenis
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That's Kenjaku's forearm not the arm like Uro, like I said.
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Eh, combined with the other broken arm the mass difference is probably negligible
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the person who made this crt brought it up as a focal point for why Kashimo would aim for the head
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let's see the explanation for why a character needing complimentory information processing speed to handle his superhuman speed and effectively use it in fights isn't how it should work
in a fight to the death?
you know, the one sukuna and gojo are actively participating against during the 41 seconds time frame where they need to hold out maximum attention and processing power less they get blitzed by the mach 500 opponent next to them, gojo himself does perceive and measure events happening in a less than 0,01 seconds timeframe despite the fact that the prior clash having taken effect for less than 10 seconds and in that sub 10 seconds time frame and all he managed to do then was land one solid blow on sukuna and then fail to follow it up before Mahoraga emerges and shatters his domain, this is a low speed showing, which further reinforces my stand on the fight isn't always happening in supersonic speed and the events happening in less than 0.01 seconds futher kills any implementation of triple digit mach velocities which is further proven by the fact that yuta isn't sure when he is speaking the events that transpired (who is also appearently mach 500 lol)
that was never my argument, you pulled that out of nowhere, speaking was never an anti feat because otherwise battles always have character talking even in outer space, when moving at light speeds or generally when it's just impossible for them to speak, idk why you even brought this up, i never even claimed this
same as above
you say this all the time as if i haven't acknowledged it, the fact that you keep weirdly ignoring the part where i stated this fight wasn't happening in superhuman mach 500 speeds anyways no matter how many times you state they weren't just fighting all the time because the time frame exists and they didn't do much within it (bolded in case you needed visual aid to hold your attention)
sure, they weren't fighting all the time, never denied that, the fact that kills your arguments is this clash, much like the sub 10 second timeframe i showed earlier isn't like the previous clashes and can't be handwaved by just pointing out that much of the battle is offscreen, we see every single move they do in this timeframe, and the very easy conclusion is besides the last tid bit where they were moving in compressed time and firing off supersonic attacks and projectiles, they were slow, that's it, please comprehend this
which is right, we can get a rough estimate of the speed the figthers were operating at at that moment because of the equation S=D/T that a lot of people here seem to have no idea about, we get the D....well, i'm keeping like that, we get the D and T part of the equation for most of the fight, the part until gojo fires off his supersonic red is where most of the 41 seconds was spent, seeing they were operating at supersonic speed during that clash that's pretty much safe to assume
what we can conclude from this?
the figtht considerably varies in speed throughout the multiple scenes that were shown depending on the output of each party and the techniques they're using or what tactics they're going for, gojo and sukuna aren't always going full throttle when they're just running around in the street or really in most of the fights
the multiple showings of speed won't stop existing just because you don't like them, they're as much as canon as any other feat, the one currently being discussed is so disgustingly out of these character's leagues and showings in terms of speed i'm genuinely unsure how it lasted this long, a substantial portion of time in this battle was probably spent just standing around, talking, thinking and recovering, wihich is true for all fights never mind sorcerers who need time to prepare their CTs
assumptions, you say, please point up where i assumed anything, i will be glad to fix my arguments or elaborate more now than i'm not muddle headed
...once again, i implore you to state where the assumptions are, i said they didn't cover much distance nor do much of anything which is objectively true for anyone who has eyes and can read, since you can't do much of anything beside complain i'll do it myself
the 234th chapter ends by specifying a time frame in which Hollow Purple will be detonated, it being 41 seconds, and Ch. 235 ends with that exact outcome, we've got 41 seconds of time to account for in Ch. 235, in that chapter
1 The first thing that happens here is gojo regains output for RCT and finishes healing his arm, followed by a fight with mahoraga which doesn't last long as gojo the launches him away, moves behind Sukuna while mahoraga is still in the air, and then throws the both of them into the building right next to them
2 after this, gojo begins chanting to charge up a more powerful version of red which sukuna doesn't attempt to stop because he wanted to use mahoraga to discover a technique to bypasse/surpasse gojo's Limitless.
3 after red is launched, this is when superspeed actually starts being a thing in this fight, the unleashed red is most likely supersonic based on the shockwave drawn around its launching point, the same one gege always draws around peircing blood,, sukuna then tells mahoraga to race towards blue and prevent it from combining with red to become Purple after the supersonic red was already launched, which despite it's headstart Mahoraga catches up to it and he even knew he'd be successful in doing so from the start, even if it had to jump through several floors to do it , so mahoraga is pretty much supersonic, there is no deyning that during this sequence, then gojo managed to use blue's pull to outspeed mahoraga,
4 sukuna then jumps into the fight and attempts to destroy red with PB and Gojo was able to land a blow on Sukuna and his complete a chant in condensed time (see what gege did there?)before the Piercing Blood can reach it's target, blue regains output from the chant and sukuna gets ******, the end
1 and 2 were the sequence of events where most of the 41 second time frame was spent, the only show of superhuman speed that gege implemented was after the firing of red in which case the events that transpired after that didn't take much time, which goes back to my point, most of this fight isn't happening in superhuman speed, the speed varies greatly from scene to scene and the entire fight literally ***** your mach 500 speed interpretation both sides
you are literally the one disregarding feats as outliers and taking a "higher end" speed feat you pulled out of nowhere by assuming kashimo's lightning that was never stated nor implied to be as fast as it's irl counterpart as real lightning despite the vast god damn feats gege presented in the series to show otherwise, this isn't an isolated incident, time frames in the like of 0,01 seconds 10 seconds 41 seconds 3 minues etc are all around the place, all you're doing is handwaving them because they happened off screen and when i inevitably do show you instances that didn't happen off screen, you handwaved as outliers, it's almost as if defending the presuposed speed you think these characters have takes precedence over the actual showings presented in the series instead of try to make sens of them within the boud of the series, you're too focused on getting a higher number you can't even think about anything else
if it makes you feel any better i ceased taking anyone here seriously ever since i spoke to people here yesterday
we know the distance isn't big, i can't be bothered to analyze the fight more than i already did, based on the showings of chap 235, the characters weren't all that fast before red was launched, you're free to try and prove otherwise, but do know i expect information from the series from you so that i know based on what you're coming to the conclusions you're getting to
and i never denied those
what i denied is the mach 500 bullshit because then the timeframes would always cease to make sens
because i'm not assuming, i am literally basing everything on what actually transpires in the fight because all their movements were shown and in those movements, the only instance of supersonic speed was only shown after red was fired
if no one can understand this even now dragon balls fans won't be the only ones who can't read anymore
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Yes, holding your attention != speaking at mach 500 speeds, there was moments where they were both stood still waiting for the other to make a move to counter - like Sukuna waiting for Gojo to make a move to utilise Mahoraga's adaptation, this is because most characters aren't living at their peak speeds but merely utilise them in bursts like punches, dodges, blocks, dashes, and so on. This is even accepted in radical cases on VSBW, like how Barry Allen can be accepted as immeasurable speed yet any DC reader will show you weird moments where he's fighting within time frames - even if seriously - yet only for JJK a scene where they stop and talk is suddenly an anti-feat?
This is an open lie. TCB translates it as saying 10 seconds SINCE Sukuna suffered from Unlimited Void once he began feeling the impact of the brain damage, not that the domain was itself 10 seconds long. Kinda weird you'd link every other statement but that "sub 10 seconds" one, almost as if you were trying to sneak that in there dishonestly.
Why does there being less than 0.01 second time frames during a moment where Sukuna was healing suggest there's not impressive speed showings?
Both Yuta and Higuruma noticed it so it's clearly not a speed thing, evident by the fact they're also watching it through Mei Mei's crows and not in person so their own processing speed isn't being portrayed and how they're shocked Sukuna is so fast despite JUST watching him fight.
"that was never my argument"
"the one sukuna and gojo are actively participating against during the 41 seconds time frame where they need to hold out maximum attention and processing power"
You literally ARE arguing against the idea of two opponents slowing down whilst speaking
It does matter, because if they're not fighting for the full time frame then saying "they didn't do much" is irrelevant, because we don't know the time span they were fighting in only the broad time span which includes the speaking. Pretty easy concept to grasp, let's see if you get it this time around
"we get the D" - we don't. Enjoy your "rough estimate" (code for: I have no metric I'm using, no basis, I'm just guessing based on my intuition) tho
jesus, you spent 5 paragraphs repeating yourself
please spare me. Give me a metric, I'm done being charitable with you and assuming you're engaging in good faith here, I'm done reading your paragraphs where you slip lies and lies in whilst just positing things with no basis, give me a metric or I'm just dismissing your shit atp.I never dismissed any feat. You're arguing the time frame is a feat and I've never dismissed the time frame as inaccurate, fake, or an outlier, etc., I've worked within the confines of the series to lay out a functioning interpretation. That's not the same as you saying "well maybe lightning != lightning!" yea and maybe 1 second != 1 second, real high level thinking here...
"prove they're that fast"
"here's feats of them moving that fast"
"no, prove they're that fast IN THIS PANEL"
"well, they've moved that fast in fights befor-"
"NO, IN THIS PANEL, PROVE THEY'RE MOVING THAT FAST"
lol okay
projection
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Someone being mistaken on something or using an alternative translation doesn't make what they're saying an "open lie". Don't throw out accusations.
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I don't think it was a simple mistake when they link every statement BUT that specific statement which is vital for their argument, not to mention the numerous other more implicit dishonest and rude comments they sneak in their posts. If it was a mistake then my bad ig, but I wouldn't give much charity to them in this regard
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What are you even talking about? Only managed to land one blow? Dude... That was after UV landed in that very small time frame. What happened after Gojo did a small donut on Sukuna is the battle got skipped right ahead to Sukuna's DE collapsing after 2 minutes and 40 seconds. No way you're real bruh.
And you're ******* using Yuta? you're using the bloody spectators who aren't even reinforcing themselves???
Bro
And light speed and FTL characters aren't throwing around millions of punches always either. What kind of argument is this?
Them throwing around couple of punches means nothing. Idc about this timeframe you're trying to use as a support for it either. It means quite literally nothing. If you think they're not supersonic either then lmfao at you for ignoring gojo getting his hand up faster than PW, heavily weakened Sukuna blatantly blitzing PB and the entire cast in donutting choso.
Ur barely comprehending anything bro.
That's just basic red space manip pushing space.
It doesn't even destroy his mach 500 argument either.Just gonna ignore the rest of your arguments.
You gonna say anything damage?
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You guy talking like no one having seen hakari fight before he only get suspended one year not decades people shouldn’t suddenly forgot how fast hakari is
Speed is big part of naobito character who is one of the strongest grade 1 if somehow hakari faster than him surely it’s should be mention
Arkenis
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Nah Hakari just never hit Jackpot until kashimo, he never got to show his mach 500+ speed
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Or Hakari just got faster? Naobito being a speed merchant amongst grade 1's mean nothing to people Gege portrays as lightning timers.
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Ye and Hakari got compared to Yuta who is SG level. So yes he got better.
And yes being known as the fastest by public barely means much really
I doubt society has ever seen gojo's FP in stats either if even Kenjaku despite with Geto's memories can underestimate gojo THREE times. Despite having far higher authority than a bunch of scrubs from JJK society in stats, experience, knowledge, etc. Really. These type of statements presents so many unknowns and reaches to even use when comparing speed.
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