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Jujutsu Kaisen Hax/ Ability Additions Pt. 2

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jjk is looking like hxh right now, especially with hakari's jackpot domain expansion

also, hakari is so cool it actually makes me scared of gege killing him in this arc
 
Nanami's resistance was also a byproduct of his acknowledgement of the soul
Actually, it seems like Mahito is implying Nanami hasn't recognized his soul, which why he's protecting his soul unconsciously rather than consciously. However, it's definitely not a ''byproduct''. It would make protecting your soul possible, but doesn't guarantee anything. Also want to add that someone being similar in skill is irrelevant to Nanami's feat, because, again, it's done subconsciously; he has no control over it.

has never been portrayed to be something exclusive to Nanami.
He's the only characters who's noted to do this, so yes, it actually is.
 
Actually, it seems like Mahito is implying Nanami hasn't recognized his soul, which why he's protecting his soul unconsciously rather than consciously. However, it's definitely not a ''byproduct''. It would make protecting your soul possible, but doesn't guarantee anything.
"First off, one must ackowledge one's soul. Without that, it's impossible".
Not to mention that Nanami was directly involed in a conversation regarding the soul's nature moments before. So, the link between acknowledgement of the soul and resistance to Mahito's Transfiguration has been outright stated.

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Also want to add that someone being similar in skill is irrelevant to Nanami's feat, because, again, it's done subconsciously; he has no control over it.
Subconscious behavior is absolutely something that involves prowess and skill, the behaviour that is completely automatic with no control is unconscious behavior which is discernibly different.
He's the only characters who's noted to do this, so yes, it actually is.
If Soul Resistance was something completely unique to Nanami then Mahito wouldn't be referring to this instance when contemplating if his technique would work on other Sorcerers or not.
 
"First off, one must ackowledge one's soul. Without that, it's impossible".
Followed with a ''but'' as if it wasn't really a factor to what Nanami was doing. Fact remains that this wasn't simply a byproduct though.

Subconscious behavior is absolutely something that involves prowess and skill
Sure you can argue it takes skill, but that's not the point. It's done without any awareness or control, so it's not scalable to others.

If Soul Resistance was something completely unique to Nanami then Mahito wouldn't be referring to this instance when contemplating if his technique would work on other Sorcerers or not.
Soul Resistance itself might not be unique, but the way he resisted it is. Also, it's natural for Mahito to considere these things in a fight. It doesn't mean much though.
 
Followed with a ''but'' as if it wasn't really a factor to what Nanami was doing. Fact remains that this wasn't simply a byproduct though.
If acknowledgement of the soul was a straight up non-factor then Mahito wouldn't have a statement as absolute as: "Without that, it's impossible" when discussing Nanami's survivial. Mahito really seems to reiterate the point further by pointing out how Nanami is in fact acknowledging his own soul at some level.

Sure you can argue it takes skill, but that's not the point. It's done without any awareness or control, so it's not scalable to others.
Even if we want to say that Nanami's protection isn't something done with complete awareness, the end result doesn't change, as we do know that concepts such as skill levels and fighting prowess are in fact acknowledged within the verse, while also being proven to be scalable.
It's also stated that Nanami's protection utilized cursed energy, with cursed energy having repeatedly been shown to have multiple levels of control and mastery, which also supports this.

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If acknowledgement of the soul was a straight up non-factor then Mahito wouldn't have a statement as absolute as: "Without that, it's impossible" when discussing Nanami's survivial.
And, again, this is literally followed up with a ''But it seems...'. Do I have to remind you of the definition of ''but''?

Even if we want to say that Nanami's control isn't something done with complete awareness, the end result doesn't change, as we do know that concepts such as skill levels and fighting prowess are in fact acknowledged within the verse, while also being proven to be scalable.
It does change because this is done without awareness and control. It's not the same as regular skill for which they all had to train etc. Do you genuinely not see the difference?
 
And, again, this is literally followed up with a ''But it seems...'. Do I have to remind you of the definition of ''but''?
Which again reiterates the point of Mahito pointing out how Nanami is in fact acknowledging his own soul at some level. The entire premise of Nanami not acknowledging his soul doesn't add up given that he outright stated his viewpoint regarding the body and soul mere moments before this.

It does change because this is done without awareness and control. It's not the same as regular skill for which they all had to train etc. Do you genuinely not see the difference?
And, again, Subconscious behavior does involve prowess and skill, which is something that can be improved upon and has verbatim been shown to be scalable, with the behaviour that has no control being unconscious behavior.
With Nanami's protection also being stated to involve cursed energy, which again, has multiple layers of mastery.

Frankly there's nothing left for me to say regarding this topic and i'm not particularly close to changing my standpoint.
If there's any discernable point you think is worth bringing up which could change minds then i'd be happy to hear it, but for now I can't really say that i'm convinced.
 
Which again reiterates the point of Mahito pointing out how Nanami is in fact acknowledging his own soul at some level. The entire premise of Nanami not acknowledging his soul doesn't add up given that he outright stated his viewpoint regarding the body and soul mere moments before this.
It quite literally does not. ''But: used to introduce a phrase or clause contrasting with what has already been mentioned.''
His supposed viewpoint also supports this even further, since he's wrong about the soul's existence when asked about it...

And, again, Subconscious behavior does involve prowess and skill, which is something that can be improved upon and has verbatim been shown to be scalable, with the behaviour that has no control being unconscious behavior.
To improve it you need full awareness and control, which is absent in subconscious actions. Subconscious means a lack of awareness and control. You're arguing against its definition here..
Also, Yuji being stated to be greater and stronger than Maki does not make this type of stuff scalable. That's a horrible example to support your argument with.
 
It quite literally does not. ''But: used to introduce a phrase or clause contrasting with what has already been mentioned.''
Claiming one single definition to be correct is inherently fallacious. Especially since it doesn't even add up with the context of the prior sentence given that it would completely contradict the absolute nature of Mahito's original statement.

His supposed viewpoint also supports this even further, since he's wrong about the soul's existence when asked about it...
There have been multiple characters throughout the franchise that have expressed their viewpoint regarding the nature of the body and soul, with Mahito himself even having his viewpoint contested. There's no established "right or wrong" regarding the true nature of the soul at this point. Saying that Nanami's viewpoint is inherently wrong is not only impossible to prove, but doesn't even go against the idea of Nanami's acknowledgement of the soul in the first place. Mahito's acknowledgement of the soul doesn't suddenly become obsolete if Kenjaku turns out to be correct 200 chapters later.

To improve it you need full awareness and control, which is absent in subconscious actions. Subconscious means a lack of awareness and control. You're arguing against its definition here..
According to what exactly? By all metrics, things such as fighting spirit and intuition do get improved despite not requiring full awareness. Even most IRL athlethes experience this. This entire premise is false.

Also, Yuji being stated to be greater and stronger than Maki does not make this type of stuff scalable. That's a horrible example to support your argument with.
It's literally said that Yuji's fighting sense scales above Maki's. This isn't an argument to support the idea of this type of stuff being scalable. It is just straight up being scaled towards eachother.
 
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Claiming one single definition to be correct is inherently fallacious. Especially since it doesn't even add up with the context with of the prior sentence given that it would completely contradict the absolute nature of Mahito's original statement.
Well, nobody's claiming that anyway. It is the most common definition, however, and is the most suitable in this context. ''It's impossible. But it seems...'' literally sets it up as a contrast.

There's no established "right or wrong" regarding the true nature of the soul
Mahito's obviously correct to some degree because he has the most control over his soul in the entire series. Besides, this'd make your point pretty redundant.

According to what exactly? By all metrics, things such as fighting spirit and intuition do get improved despite not requiring full awareness. Even most IRL athlethes experience this. This entire premise is false.
You can improve your intuition because 1. You already have intuitive capabilities and 2. You're aware they exist. You do not naturally have the capability to protect your soul, nor is Nanami aware that he's protecting his soul. It's not comparable at all.

It's literally said that Yuji's fighting sense scales above Maki's. This isn't an argument to support the idea of this type of stuff being scalable. It is just straight up being scaled towards eachother.
His fighting sense being greater than Maki's is such a small and simple scale. That's completely different from trying to scale Nanami subconsciously protecting his soul. It's such a strange comparison.
 
We have no other instances of this occuring in the series, so I think my argument has more basis than yours in this instance. With nothing else in the series to go off of to disprove or contradict this, it seems that we've been very clearly shown that the rebirth of cursed spirits can manifest in this way.
It can manifest this way, but this is not how they normally manifest so we shouldn't slap this uncommon ability on every Cursed Spirit.
We know that Special Grade Cursed Spirits are super rare and that don't usually create a spare body that becomes active minutes after their death. We know how they are normally created; negative emotions around a specific theme gradually accumulate until they create a Cursed Spirit that has the same theme. This takes a while as indicated by their rarity, and Jogo not knowing when fear of fires/volcanoes will create a Cursed Spirit or what form it will take.
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None of those reincarnations are facilitated by an abstract shared among consciousness. Their essence is tied to human conceptualization of what they represent. Aka they have no true physical form.
The question is: Do they keep their consciousness after death, or will their consciousness disappear and a new consciousness made from the same ingredients (fear/hatred of forests/volcanoes/sea/humans) get eventually created?

The latter appear to be the case. Remember that both Yuki and Geto want a world without Cursed Spirit, but if the Cursed Energy of intelligent Cursed Spirits don't get destroyed and is bound to reform on its own (instead of Cursed Energy gathering from scratch, implying a new consciousness) then this is not really possible.
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The Void stuff? That comes from the JjK interview discussing the physics of Gojo's CT.

The trees are the bits not being destroyed on the outskirts of the area of the attack.

Only the kinetic energy exists; nothing else to indicate destruction of the environment not related to the shockwave or purple traveling. Anything coming into contact with purple itself however was erased. Todo even states that there was no way to tell if the curse was exorcised or not, another indicator of erasure.
I accept it as Void Manipulation that brings something non-existent (imaginary mass) into existence. The physics/math dialogue was about how it doesn't mathematically make sense to create imaginary mass through an addition process (Blue + Red). But there is no statement that it literally removes existent things from existence, nor is that something inherit about a theoretical imaginary mass.
If the outskirt fragments, the center might very well pulverize.

Can refer to Hanami getting pulverized. Plus they were unable to confirm a hit due to the environmental damage, and a Cursed Spirit's corpse gets disintegrated quickly so they won't have time to search for confirmation.

One of the first time we see generic curses
The black hole through walls appears to be phase through walls intangibility, which is exclusive to low-grade Curses. And if high-grade Curses are able to open portals whereever, this begs the question of why they didn't.
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The question is: Do they keep their consciousness after death, or will their consciousness disappear and a new consciousness made from the same ingredients (fear/hatred of forests/volcanoes/sea/humans) get eventually created?

The latter appear to be the case. Remember that both Yuki and Geto want a world without Cursed Spirit, but if the Cursed Energy of intelligent Cursed Spirits don't get destroyed and is bound to reform on its own (instead of Cursed Energy gathering from scratch, implying a new consciousness) then this is not really possible.
The reason Jogo doesn't fear death is because he knows that his spiritual information will continue to move on, which is something we know happens especially when cursed energy is involved; Naoya coming back, Toji's body and spirit information being available to bring back copies, Panda's experience with his siblings departing to another realm to meet with Yaga, etc.

And despite the above, it wouldn't really matter. His incorporeality stems from the fact that he's an abstract manifestation of collective perception, thus having no true physical form. So as long as he maintains that status, it would still hold true.
I accept it as Void Manipulation that brings something non-existent (imaginary mass) into existence. The physics/math dialogue was about how it doesn't mathematically make sense to create imaginary mass through an addition process (Blue + Red). But there is no statement that it literally removes existent things from existence, nor is that something inherit about a theoretical imaginary mass.
If the outskirt fragments, the center might very well pulverize.
Not at all. The void formula has to do with making things null. Something that imaginary numbers are used for. Unreality mixing with reality results in a cancelling similar to matter interacting with anti-matter, hence why whatever is in purple's way is "voided" as a result. The person in the interview refers to Purple as "the void technique".

Also as already linked, we do not see any destruction outside of purple's path and also linked earlierTodo also comments that they couldn't even confirm if Hanami was exorcised because of the attack, clearly inferring that it was erased. Shooting force at really high speeds is also the function of red as previously stated, and Purple is clearly set up to have a specific hax function via the introduction of imaginary properties. Given the preponderance of evidence, it's either existence erasure, or Void Manipulation: conversion to nothingness. We'll just have to agree to disagree at this point if you still contest this.
Can refer to Hanami getting pulverized.
Hanami didn't get pulverized. And once again we saw no dust clouds or rubble either time Purple was used.

Hanami was in the middle of melding her body into the Earth so it's literally impossible to tell how much of her actual body was out of range and what was not. This explains her injuries not being complete and does not act as evidence the preponderance of evidence for Purple being void manip.
Plus they were unable to confirm a hit due to the environmental damage,
No, that wouldn't make one difference. He commented on the fact that everything in purple's range was completely erased, hence they couldn't even detect for cursed energy or residuals to confirm. Curses get erased all of the time, Nanami literally did so with a hand swing, so he clearly isn't just talking about level of destruction.
and a Cursed Spirit's corpse gets disintegrated quickly so they won't have time to search for confirmation.
False. Curses are often times immolated, exploded, erased by physical attacks, etc. Todo is implying that typically one would be able to confirm exorcism, as the case with Purple is clearly out of the norm, in addition to invisible nature of the attack and on screen "damage" we see, and the fact that there was no rubble as it carved through miles of ground (or a dust cloud) all point towards Todo indicating the special nature of the attack making it so that there was nothing left for them to analyze (he is under the assumption Hanami dies while Gojo is aware it got away).
The black hole through walls appears to be phase through walls intangibility, which is exclusive to low-grade Curses. And if high-grade Curses are able to open portals whereever, this begs the question of why they didn't.
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It's not really a black hole.
We clearly see in the pic I posted that the "surface" being transmuted by the curses also has depth to it with multiple demons spread out around it.
The portals allow passage, intangibility involves making oneself not interact with matter. So therefore, it would not be possible for them to take Nobara with them both times when kidnapping her as they'd have the be both solid (in order to grab her) while intangible, while also making Nobara herself intangible.
 
I think the obvious solution is to remove EE completely and just have Void Manip replace it
 
So most have voted agree in addition to the only mod support. Is this good to go?
 
I believe two or so more mods are needed to approve the thread before it can be applied
 
I can do it, but is the OP up to date? That'll make it easier for any staff coming in to voice any problems if they have them
 
Will check later, got a long work day ahead.

Tho before I comment, I just want to ask, is this meant to be standard abilities added to all files across the verse or just Gojo?
 
Several abilities spread out over several profiles. They'll normally specify who gets what on the ability in the Bolded names with each P/A
 
What do we currently accept domains as? Because this isn't exactly power null, but moreso pushing against domains, which is what... pocket realities? Can't remember, been a while since I read the manga, so correct me if I am wrong.
  • Selective Incorporeality/Invulnerability/Intangability - High-grade cursed spirits such as Jogo, Hanami, Dagon (and presumably Mahito) will continue to exist in essence, even if in different forms. Furthermore, cursed spirits do not appear on video capturing devices and the sounds they produce are also imperceptible to humans. Cursed spirits can latch onto human hosts and cause physical strain without the human realize they are being affected by the curse or it displacing any objects in space, only being somewhat aware through the form of dreams. Even humans capable of seeing cursed spirits cannot injure or otherwise affect them without cursed energy. It is noted that only low grade spirits can selectively phase through solid matter.
Immortality type 7 would also work. But ye, sure
What's the source of this?
Also concept isn't meant to be taken a face value. That's basically spatial hax rather than actual conceptual.
  • Void Manipulation - By combining the polar opposite infinities of Red and Blue, Gojo is able to create Hollow Purple, an imaginary mass which he fires at his opponents to erase them from reality [1][2]. Such properties are given "void" [1] [2] characteristics and seen cleaving through anything it encompasses without any environmental impact that would denote a physical process. Applies to Gojo Satoru's Hollow Purple technique.
Three things; I am iffy on using this interview. Idk, what if it's faked or whatever? considering its only initials, how am I supposed to know its the author?

Secondly, even if that was true, this would be an extremely minor void manipulation.

Thirdly, I don't see anything about EE?
  • Information Manipulation (Type 2) - Both the body and the soul are underlined by more fundamental information. Principal Yaga utilized these mechanics to create his cursed spirit dolls and birth the existence of Panda by copying soul information. Ogami is a cursed energy user who utilizes her technique to summon the "body information" of a desired target without also dragging over the soul/personality. Further bolstering this point is the fact that Ogami's target in the manga was able to retain his memories, skills, and personality strictly from their body information. Finally, Mahito utilizes this to manipulate soul information and thus can affect both the souls and bodies of his target. Mahito himself explains that human bodies are "controlled by these concepts" that interact with the human soul resulting in mechanical processes. Mahito can also configure his body and the bodies of his captives, altering the size and shape of his victims, and being able to completely change his biological composition to turn into differing life and inorganic matter. Grade 1 Sorcerors+ would also get Resistance to this via Nanami resisting Mahito's transfiguration attempt.
Why would every grade 1 sorcerer have this just because Nanami resisted it?
Sure, but why every curse?


The ones I didn't comment on looks good to me.
 
What do we currently accept domains as? Because this isn't exactly power null, but moreso pushing against domains, which is what... pocket realities? Can't remember, been a while since I read the manga, so correct me if I am wrong.
Yeah currently, domains count as pocket realities.

It would be powernull because they are using domain amplification to counteract Gojo's limitless, which is an ability separate from his domain expansion. Domain expansions countering other expansions isn't a technique moreso a natural consequence of them clashing.
What's the source of this?
Also concept isn't meant to be taken a face value. That's basically spatial hax rather than actual conceptual.
The source is the Shonen Jump Math Course, where Gege enlisted college physics professors to give explanations for some of the abilities in JJK (particularly Gojo).

I disagree, in the full interview, they discuss him having control of the "strength" of certain convergent/divergent phases which allows him to manipulate the inherent scales of distance, and essentially the power over the math that rules the universe at < sub atomic scale. Combined with Gojo "bringing the naturally existing infinity into reality" the statement should qualify as Concept manip, particularly with the recent ontological knowledge of curses techniques being able to manipulate type 2 information and existing as something "between dream (abstract) and reality".

So while space manip may be a result of his power, the actual power itself (limitless) is functioning by controlling the concepts/axioms that make up reality.
Three things; I am iffy on using this interview. Idk, what if it's faked or whatever? considering its only initials, how am I supposed to know its the author?
The interview isn't faked. It was published in Shonen Jump as a supplement for the series.

Secondly, even if that was true, this would be an extremely minor void manipulation
Thirdly, I don't see anything about EE?
The "void" discussed is not Gojo summoning a void. He's erasing reality by having it interact with an imaginary mass that is not real. Thus anything in contact with the purple is "voided" hence the mathematical "void formula". This was also hinted at with Gojo stating his ability makes impossibilities happen such as natural negative numbers. So Void Manip with the function of converting to non-existence.
Why would every grade 1 sorcerer have this just because Nanami resisted it?
Nanami did so instinctively based on his mastery of cursed energy. It stands to reason other similarly skilled users would be capable of such which is further evidenced by Mahito being unable to one-shot Todo with the same technique.
Sure, but why every curse?
Even generic curses can do this as scene in the first chapter where they create a portal (that has depth) in order to attack Yuji's friends. So it seems an inherent ability of curses.
The ones I didn't comment on looks good to me.
Awesome, and thank you. I appreciate your time. Also I am work now, and while most of the relevant scans are posted, feel free to reach out if you need additional scans.
 
Yeah currently, domains count as pocket realities.
Limited space time seem far more fitting with the scans and stuff instead of power null. .
I disagree, in the full interview, they discuss him having control of the "strength" of certain convergent/divergent phases which allows him to manipulate the inherent scales of distance, and essentially the power over the math that rules the universe at < sub atomic scale. Combined with Gojo "bringing the naturally existing infinity into reality" the statement should qualify as Concept manip, particularly with the recent ontological knowledge of curses techniques being able to manipulate type 2 information and existing as something "between dream (abstract) and reality".
Three things, might wanna list the whole interview. Cause the ones you should don't really show much as to why it's concept Hax, when it comes off as nothing but spatial Hax.

Also, was it the writer who stated all of this or the college professor? If so, why does he even have authority here?

Third, this explaination still sounds more like spatial Hax than actually concept Hax.
The interview isn't faked. It was published in Shonen Jump as a supplement for the series.
What about the translation?
The "void" discussed is not Gojo summoning a void. He's erasing reality by having it interact with an imaginary mass that is not real. Thus anything in contact with the purple is "voided" hence the mathematical "void formula". This was also hinted at with Gojo stating his ability makes impossibilities happen such as natural negative numbers. So Void Manip with the function of converting to non-existence.
Hmmm
Nanami did so instinctively based on his mastery of cursed energy. It stands to reason other similarly skilled users would be capable of such which is further evidenced by Mahito being unable to one-shot Todo with the same technique.
I mean that seems like an extremely large leap instead of actually being based on in-canon reasoning.
Even generic curses can do this as scene in the first chapter where they create a portal (that has depth) in order to attack Yuji's friends. So it seems an inherent ability of curses.
Should probably add multiple images then.
Awesome, and thank you. I appreciate your time. Also I am work now, and while most of the relevant scans are posted, feel free to reach out if you need additional scans.
👍
 
Limited space time seem far more fitting with the scans and stuff instead of power null.
Not sure I am completely following. The domain amplification is condensing one's domain to shut out techniques from another person. The nullified Gojo's limitless by using this, not his domain. The domain expansion also comes in two parts; the first being realizing one's innate domain (limited subjective reality [2]) into reality, and the second involves creating a barrier (space-time application) to seal an opponent within. These are two separate mechanisms comprising the technique though as we see with inexperienced users (like Megumi) and Experienced users (like Sukuna and Vengeful Cursed Spirits) who simply realize their innate domain without a barrier. So seeing as they coat themselves in their domain I think powernull fits better.
Three things, might wanna list the whole interview. Cause the ones you should don't really show much as to why it's concept Hax, when it comes off as nothing but spatial Hax.
The full interview can be found here.

The conceptual aspect occurs because this is all a function of Gojo bringing "infinity" into reality from existence (implied to be separate from normal reality, which matches up with Kenjaku's statements about curses). This ability then creates "infinite space" that is not present in reality prior to Gojo's technique activating which then affects space, but Gojo isn't simply affecting pre-existing "infinite" space between he and his opponent.
Also, was it the writer who stated all of this or the college professor? If so, why does he even have authority here?
The intermediary between the two college professors himself has a master's in information geometry and helped to make the explanations more accessible. If you're referring to the summative portion linked where the manipulation of concepts is mentioned.
Third, this explaination still sounds more like spatial Hax than actually concept Hax.
I will wait to respond to this part after you have accessed the full interview and my explanation above.
What about the translation?
Yeah it was from Anon and has been verified by separate translations. It's also pretty readily available given it was posted in Jump.
I mean that seems like an extremely large leap instead of actually being based on in-canon reasoning.
I'm not sure why. Nanami instinctively covered his soul upon feeling Mahito manipulate it. For it to be a leap, one would have to posit this reaction is something specific to Nanami's case. Mahito is the only one who puts forth the idea that it's normally impossible, and Nanami actively exists as a case counter to his arguments. Remember, Mahito had just been born and, besides cursed spirits, really hadn't encountered or fought an experienced sorcerer before Nanami. So he is using chump humans and low-skill sorcerers as his barometer.

Mahito not being able to one-shot Todo also remains a bolstering point to this, especially given the latter's rank an in-depth understanding of cursed energy.
Should probably add multiple images then.
This and this is what I was referencing.
 
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