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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

CountGracula said:
I've made a thread mostly about a problem with Mechamaru's Ultimate Cannon which I think would downgrade some of the low tiers and stuff (I also added some extra stuff that could possibly affect higher tiered characters, but that's not the main point). I just want to post it here for added exposure. Sorry if that's not allowed.

Btw, I've noticed that the Hanami's durability portion says that Yuji and Todos attacks would have "Severely Injured" Jogo, when the actual text says that "He would die instantly" I just feel like that's kind of underselling Hanami's durability, or maybe overselling Jogo. Anyways it should probably be edited either way.
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Lmfao now the Mahito shaking the subway calc will get upgraded
 
In my JJK Sandbox for CG and SS arcs, I have the following characters:
  • Kenjaku (Done)
  • Yuta (WIP)
  • Yuki (Done)
  • Geto (WIP)
  • Maki (WIP)
  • Kashimo (Done)
  • Yorozu (Done)
  • Choso (WIP)
  • Mahoraga (WIP)
  • Uro (Done)
  • Ryu (Done)
  • Uraume (Done)
  • Miguel (WIP)
  • Hakari (Done)
  • Takaba (Done)
  • Todo (WIP)
And the ones with WIP need to be done, the ones that are done need to be revised to check if everything's alright with the scaling. Can anyone help?
 
Okay I think I get it. My thing with the 120% isn't just that Yuji, Todo, Mahito are 120% stronger, its that 120% state can't be scaled to others as this state is a new level for them, its something unlocked from BF which makes them completely different from their past self as that's basically said by the narrator, Todo and Nanami that hitting BF makes you into this new person who gains better ce control and more knowledge. And given this is the first for Mahito and Todo it makes it all the more appropriate not to say their base is slightly below it. I think the use of potential makes this apparent, if it was like Nanami's OT making him output 110% to 120% then I'd agree with scaling their base to it but it's not, its about potential meaning their 120% potential is much higher than a simple output increase.
 
I mean I don’t really care that much, this feat should definitely scale to post Shibuya Yuji anyway since we have that statement that he’s on a whole different level now, I think it’s from Choso. This should be thanks to BF.
 
Arkenis said:
Okay I think I get it. My thing with the 120% isn't just that Yuji, Todo, Mahito are 120% stronger, its that 120% state can't be scaled to others as this state is a new level for them, its something unlocked from BF which makes them completely different from their past self as that's basically said by the narrator, Todo and Nanami that hitting BF makes you into this new person who gains better ce control and more knowledge. And given this is the first for Mahito and Todo it makes it all the more appropriate not to say their base is slightly below it. I think the use of potential makes this apparent, if it was like Nanami's OT making him output 110% to 120% then I'd agree with scaling their base to it but it's not, its about potential meaning their 120% potential is much higher than a simple output increase.
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It's considered a new level because it's not just their output that is increasing but also their overall abilities with Jujutsu. Think how Mahito was able to pull of the 0.2 second domain expansion. While that has nothing to do with stats it still let him take out Todo turning the fight in his favour and giving him enough time to achieve his true form, none of which would have happened had he not hit a BF
 
Giannysmag said:
It's considered a new level because it's not just their output that is increasing but also their overall abilities with Jujutsu. Think how Mahito was able to pull of the 0.2 second domain expansion. While that has nothing to do with stats it still let him take out Todo turning the fight in his favour and giving him enough time to achieve his true form, none of which would have happened had he not hit a BF
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Yeah that's my point, which is why their base shouldn't be backed scaled going by the percentage because it's not indicative of their output.
 
Arkenis said:
Yeah that's my point, which is why their base shouldn't be backed scaled going by the percentage because it's not indicative of their output.
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I think we are coming to different conclusions here. To me the fact that the 120% is not just output but overall ablitity and potential would imply that if anything the amp to their output would actually be less than 120%
 
Does anyone have any knowledge about how the scaling works for characters like BoS Maki and Miwa. They are currently considered Building Level, but there is no calculation to back this up. Im really curious. All I can see is some mentions of 2nd Grade Curses, but that's about it.

Edit: Or are they just outdated, since they mention Yuji a lot, when he isn't Building Level anywhere either.

Edit Edit: Just in case they somehow scale to the School Curse Destroying a few Storeys in JJK 0, I did redo that one here (It's not accepted or anything yet, but its still there)
 
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Giannysmag said:
I think we are coming to different conclusions here. To me the fact that the 120% is not just output but overall ablitity and potential would imply that if anything the amp to their output would actually be less than 120%
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Then you're undermining how potent BF amp is to one's power in the verse. I've already said it but BF causes one's ce knowledge and flow to be on a higher level and then we have Todo saying it makes you into a new person. The way its portrayed a slight increase output doesn't make sense.
 
Arkenis said:
Then you're undermining how potent BF amp is to one's power in the verse. I've already said it but BF causes one's ce knowledge and flow to be on a higher level and then we have Todo saying it makes you into a new person. The way its portrayed a slight increase output doesn't make sense.
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Like I mentioned before it's considered such a potent increase because it isn't just output but overall ability, so while the increase itself isn't that large in effect it makes them far better overall fighters especially in a verse that treats small increases like this as very substantial
 
Giannysmag said:
Like I mentioned before it's considered such a potent increase because it isn't just output but overall ability, so while the increase itself isn't that large in effect it makes them far better overall fighters especially in a verse that treats small increases like this as very substantial
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You can't ignore how BF's amp is portrayed. It's amp applies to overall ability as you're pointing out, and output is a significant part of one's ability in JJK, its the main factor in most applications of cursed energy after all. It's explicitly said to us their flow of ce becomes greater and their knowledge of ce is immeasurable compared to those who haven't hit it. To say the increase to their output wouldn't be larger is ignorant and kinda disingenuous. Also why acknowledge that the verse treats small increases as substantial yet you want to scale the increase to their base?
 
Arkenis said:
You can't ignore how BF's amp is portrayed. It's amp applies to overall ability as you're pointing out, and output is a significant part of one's ability in JJK, its the main factor in most applications of cursed energy after all.
Click to expand...
Output plays a significant role but so does overall ability. Hell something as major as Gojo's Awakening didn't even seem to increase his stats it just allowed to him to use a bunch of new abilities and that alone pushed him to being the strongest of the modern age
Arkenis said:
It's explicitly said to us their flow of ce becomes greater and their knowledge of ce is immeasurable compared to those who haven't hit it. To say the increase to their output wouldn't be larger is ignorant and kinda disingenuous.
Click to expand...
How is it disingenuous to use the stated multiplier for scaling?
Arkenis said:
Also why acknowledge that the verse treats small increases as substantial yet you want to scale the increase to their base?
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To show you that it is not inconsistent for this seemingly small increases to play major roles in fights.
 
Arkenis said:
BF 120% potential = better output = can't scale back to base = can't scale others to base Yuji, Mahito, Todo.
Click to expand...
Are you trying to say that Yuji, Mahito, and Todo would essentially be in a scaling bubble after their black flashes at End of Shibuya that mean nothing could really scale to their feats during after they awakened their power?
 
Giannysmag said:
Output plays a significant role but so does overall ability. Hell something as major as Gojo's Awakening didn't even seem to increase his stats it just allowed to him to use a bunch of new abilities and that alone pushed him to being the strongest of the modern age
Click to expand...
No he blitzed Toji's perception.

Giannysmag said:
How is it disingenuous to use the stated multiplier for scaling?
Click to expand...
Because it is not a multiplier for output, it is a multiplier of their potential. That is my whole point, you know it is not a multiplier for output yet you are using it as though it is.
 
Duedate8898 said:
Are you trying to say that Yuji, Mahito, and Todo would essentially be in a scaling bubble after their black flashes at End of Shibuya that mean nothing could really scale to their feats during after they awakened their power?
Click to expand...
Not at all. I'm saying those like Naobito, Naoya, Nanami, Mei Mei, etc can't scale to this like Gianny proposed. People stronger/strong as CG Yuji, Shinjuku Todo can scale.
 
Arkenis said:
No he blitzed Toji's perception.
Click to expand...
That was with blue amp, you can see him holding his hands together in that page
Arkenis said:
Because it is not a multiplier for output, it is a multiplier of their potential. That is my whole point, you know it is not a multiplier for output yet you are using it as though it is.
Click to expand...
Which is why if anything the output increase would likely be even less, since it's only accounting for a small part of the potential oncrease which as a whole is only 20%.

You brought up how sorcerers attain a new level after hitting BF and I explained that that's because A. It's an increase to their overall ability not just stats so in effect they end being far better as fighters and B. The verse consistently treats these small increases as impressive (see Megumi's domain amping him to 120% as well or Nanami's overtime being a 110 to 120% increase)

You may think that 120% is too small but that's all we've got and it isn't inconsistent
 
Giannysmag said:
Which is why if anything the output increase would likely be even less, since it's only accounting for a small part of the potential oncrease which as a whole is only 20%.

You brought up how sorcerers attain a new level after hitting BF and I explained that that's because A. It's an increase to their overall ability not just stats so in effect they end being far better as fighters and B. The verse consistently treats these small increases as impressive (see Megumi's domain amping him to 120% as well or Nanami's overtime being a 110 to 120% increase)

You may think that 120% is too small but that's all we've got and it isn't inconsistent
Click to expand...
This is misinterpreting BF. I brought up how they attain a new level in reference to manipulating cursed energy as I've shown is the general theme for BF amp. And this "overall ability" is obfuscating that their overall ability is really how good they manipulate curse energy, which BF puts them in a zone that increases their manipulation. So no matter you're interpretation we are still discussing their ability to manipulate cursed energy at a certain level.
 
Arkenis said:
This is misinterpreting BF. I brought up how they attain a new level in reference to manipulating cursed energy as I've shown is the general theme for BF amp. And this "overall ability" is obfuscating that their overall ability is really how good they manipulate curse energy, which BF puts them in a zone that increases their manipulation. So no matter you're interpretation we are still discussing their ability to manipulate cursed energy at a certain level.
Click to expand...
Ok then so the 120% statement would apply to their output then. Cause if the potential increase is equivalent to better CE manip and better CE manip is equivalent to higher output then there's no reason to assume that the latter would magically get a way higher increase.

No matter how you slice we always end up with this figuere being scalable to their output
 
Giannysmag said:
Ok then so the 120% statement would apply to their output then. Cause if the potential increase is equivalent to better CE manip and better CE manip is equivalent to higher output then there's no reason to assume that the latter would magically get a way higher increase.

No matter how you slice we always end up with this figuere being scalable to their output
Click to expand...
The potential being increased isn't meant as everything gets an amp to 120%, its that their potential to manipulate curse energy is amped, as that is what BF does to sorcerers, they are put in a zone where curse energy manipulation becomes easier like they're breathing. There is no flat increase, it's a qualitative amp and shows us in their movements, their cursed technique use and their output. This is the theme for BF so this is why I called you disingenuous.

As an example you brought up before
Giannysmag said:
It's considered a new level because it's not just their output that is increasing but also their overall abilities with Jujutsu. Think how Mahito was able to pull of the 0.2 second domain expansion. While that has nothing to do with stats it still let him take out Todo turning the fight in his favour and giving him enough time to achieve his true form, none of which would have happened had he not hit a BF
Click to expand...
0.2 Domain doesn't express to us 120% mathematically, its a display for new quality of cursed energy manipulation. Mahito developing his soul with his ct beyond his form is a display that isn't measured mathematically, its measured by quality.

Giannysmag said:
Also overall ability isn't just CE manip but also your skill with your CT, Barrier Techniques etc which both Yuji and Mahito showed where boosted thanks to BF
Click to expand...
CE manipulation is what they do to create their ct, barriers, and increase the power of them. You are using "overall ability" as an imaginary concept when their overall ability is based on their manipulation of ce.
 
Arkenis said:
The potential being increased isn't meant as everything gets an amp to 120%, its that their potential to manipulate curse energy is amped, as that is what BF does to sorcerers, they are put in a zone where curse energy manipulation becomes easier like they're breathing. There is no flat increase, it's a qualitative amp and shows us in their movements, their cursed technique use and their output.
Click to expand...
But there is a mathematical increase, it's outright stated by the narrator you are just choosing to ignore it
Arkenis said:
This is the theme for BF so this is why I called you disingenuous.

As an example you brought up before

0.2 Domain doesn't express to us 120% mathematically, its a display for new quality of cursed energy manipulation. Mahito developing his soul with his ct beyond his form is a display that isn't measured mathematically, its measured by quality.
Click to expand...
Such a move was only possible because he could tap into a mathematically higher amount of his potential, that being 120%
Arkenis said:
CE manipulation is what they do to create their ct, barriers, and increase the power of them. You are using "overall ability" as an imaginary concept when their overall ability is based on their manipulation of ce.
Click to expand...
CTs and barriers require specific skills with those techniques as well beyond just CE control, think of how when Megumi used DE for the first time he could do crazy things with his CT just cause he was thinking freely
 
Giannysmag said:
But there is a mathematical increase, it's outright stated by the narrator you are just choosing to ignore it
Click to expand...
Yeah its a qualitative amp expressed by a percentage. No one's ignoring it, I'm following what Gege is showing us.

Giannysmag said:
Such a move was only possible because he could tap into a mathematically higher amount of his potential, that being 120%
Click to expand...
Again, its a qualitative amp expressed by a percentage.

Giannysmag said:
CTs and barriers require specific skills with those techniques as well beyond just CE control, think of how when Megumi used DE for the first time he could do crazy things with his CT just cause he was thinking freely
Click to expand...
And I don't really disagree, but I'm saying to make these powerful the basis is your manipulation of ce. Also Megumi can be imaginative as he wants but if his cursed energy manipulation is bad then the ct is bad.
 
Arkenis said:
Yeah its a qualitative amp expressed by a percentage. No one's ignoring it, I'm following what Gege is showing us.

Again, its a qualitative amp expressed by a percentage.
Click to expand...
Ok then so if the amp expresses the quality of their CE manipulation and CE manipulation is tied to their CE output then why would the increase in CE output be much higher? Nothing about all this talk of quality or ce manipulation or whatever is disproving that their output would be increased by a similar if not lesser amount
 
Giannysmag said:
Ok then so if the amp expresses the quality of their CE manipulation and CE manipulation is tied to their CE output then why would the increase in CE output be much higher? Nothing about all this talk of quality or ce manipulation or whatever is disproving that their output would be increased by a similar amount
Click to expand...
When I say expresses I mean it conveys to us an amp, not that it is 1 to 1. And again for like the fifth time, the 120% can't be displayed through everything that comes with BF's amp so we can't apply the 120 to output, it is quality that is amped not quantity. You're picking what can gain from applying the 120% but this then ignores the idea that potential itself is what's amped altogether, not everything that goes into potential is amped individually.

Being Grade 1 doesn't display to us the mathematical difference of a Grade 2, its meant to convey the quality of the sorcerers for example.
In many Isekai's characters can be at level 20, be city level and a level 30 can be country level for example.
 
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