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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

Todo did outspeed Yuji
Please show this happening

Ino said Yuji's punch is relative to that of Nanami, which I don't deny Nanami has insane striking power for a grade 1 sorcerer, but there's never any mention of speed
Should be more like his 80-90%. Why would Nanami be inferior?

Yuji learnt to better manipulate his cursed energy and have it flow around his body (literally how CE amps your physicals) and then Gojo even stats "woah, Yuji's gotten way stronger!" To say Yuji stagnated is baseless.
He got better, but his stats themselves are the same. He went from going relative to Nanami to going relative to Nanami, he basically didn’t change. There’s also no note of Yuji surpassing Nanami in speed to any significant extent. As far as we see, his punch wasn’t insanely fast to Ino, who’s inferior to Nanami

Also Cursed energy doesn’t amp speed
 
Also Cursed energy doesn’t amp speed
It does.

It’s accepted as doing so on site.

Not sure how you could possibly come to this consideration unless you believe sorcs smoke all other humans for some reason other than CE. You’d also be disregarding Megumi’s assessment of no CE Yuji being “fast for someone wothout CE” amd Geto’s explicit confirmation that it does.
 
Please show this happening
Todo punched Yuji severel feet away and then crossed that distance to land a second blow before Yuji could block, and Yuji only blocked the initial hit due to being warned about it. For consistency, we see Todo grossly outspeed Megumi (essentially blitzing him), the same Megumi who can fight alongside Maki and attack in unison, the same Maki who can at the very least react to Overtime Nanami enough to participate in combo attacks. Todo then states Yuji's lackluster cursed energy control is making him "weak" and unable to access the "full strength" of his jabs (not just a matter of being skilled) and throughout the fight is complimenting Yuji's growth rate. Once Yuji grasps this he reveals he was going easy on him the entire time (including when he outspeeded him prior). Gojo even claims Yuji has grown "way stronger" and says he should even be able to take on a special grade now (when has Nanami ever been given such a statement?)
Should be more like his 80-90%. Why would Nanami be inferior?
You haven't given any reason for Nanami to be superior, you're just saying "I FEEL like it should be 80 to 90%, anyway I already gave the scaling chain for Yuji.
He got better, but his stats themselves are the same. He went from going relative to Nanami to going relative to Nanami, he basically didn’t change.
proof?
There’s also no note of Yuji surpassing Nanami in speed to any significant extent.
Why do we need a statement of Yuji surpassing Nanami for it to be true? We weren't given that statement when Yuji was fighting 15F Sukuna, or current Sukuna, is Yuji still below Nanami in power? Has Yuji not been growing at all? Obviously not, we can infer a character is stronger through their new feats.
As far as we see, his punch wasn’t insanely fast to Ino, who’s inferior to Nanami
This is just an assumption, Ino just commented on its power not it's speed.
 
TBF the 15F Sukuna at "10% output" had a fluctuating power level where at his lowest it was dipping below 10% (with his physicals not going as low as his CT's output),
i might go on a long tangent here, but just tryna explain it clear for you.
which output do you think is easier to affect and which one do you think is more complex?
CT is more complex to fk around with to begin with for megumi. as for ce output in reinforcement? requires less effort. so I think ce reinforcement would be far more easily affected.
even if you think they're the same in difficulty, Megumi would still be affecting the output in Sukuna's body. How else does he give the ct output.
oh, I almost misunderstood what you meant. Sukuna never says his physicals is not going as low as his output, that's a misunderstanding many people have.
When Sukuna says minimal influence on the flesh, do you know what kanji is used?

This is the same kanji used for the fanbook explanation about Kenjaku's technique controlling the 肉
When Geto tried to strangle Kenny, it isn't like his ce is getting affected. It's literally control over the body, the flesh, like say, if Megumi tried to control Sukuna's hand to stop moving, something like that. Not ce physicals or stuff.


tumblr_439b4ce878aee2c1c6ed693c139d3589_f765a2a9_1280.png

Q: Fake Geto’s hand moved on its own (after Gojo said "How are you gonna let yourself get used like that... Suguru?") during the Shibuya Incident. How much of Geto’s will still remains?
A: Not much. It’s like when a dragonfly can still move a bit when its head is ripped off

? ? ? Technique
By using the technique, he can control the flesh. It’s a taboo technique with a lot of mysteries.

Screenshot_20240202_115803.jpg


just clarifying for you (and the rest)

Moving on:
“There are some irregularities, but my CE output is falling below 10%…



It doesn't go as far as hindering my movements in this vessel, but…”
^ Translation by Lightning of the raw scan I posted above. He directly says it is falling below 10%, unlike other TL. Furthermore...

7KB-mi7UhQvceOfIhUNBRw3srG9A0ztzGEqG9Gyz01n_yM5E12iaV44dFYAwO88ngJEJo5aZM7p0snA6grGxMt__QPKVurrbpr5q5fvjpOisbSM9linku-TNCbZ3rugGJ4dB-VdazBK-LFDp=s320


“Probably when I try to hurt his comrades, this body strongly resists me and drops my Cursed Technique’s Cursed Energy output. In that case…” (Lightning TL)
In any case, when he tries or so on, his output drops.
Despite all of this Sukuna thinks this amount of CE output for his ct is enough to comfortably slaughter Yuji?

Ik many people think that if it just says ct output then it shouldn't affect CE output for reinforcement.... which is plain wrong. 1.5F ct level of dismantle and cleave enough to comfortably slaughter Yuji but his fists don't one shot? Obviously they're both affected then. It also doubly doesn't make sense when Megumi would have no reason to not disrupt the general flow of ce being poured into ce output for ct and reinforcement.
jjk_womb7_215_004_1.png


and it ain't like his dismantle is or cleave is several tiers apart really from his own stats. (Given those same slashes didn't do much to gojo individually despite being heavily amped due to being in domain, and Sukuna is still in the same tier as gojo normally, too)
 
i might go on a long tangent here, but just tryna explain it clear for you.
which output do you think is easier to affect and which one do you think is more complex?
CT is more complex to fk around with to begin with for megumi. as for ce output in reinforcement? requires less effort. so I think ce reinforcement would be far more easily affected.
even if you think they're the same in difficulty, Megumi would still be affecting the output in Sukuna's body. How else does he give the ct output.
oh, I almost misunderstood what you meant. Sukuna never says his physicals is not going as low as his output, that's a misunderstanding many people have.
When Sukuna says minimal influence on the flesh, do you know what kanji is used?

This is the same kanji used for the fanbook explanation about Kenjaku's technique controlling the 肉
When Geto tried to strangle Kenny, it isn't like his ce is getting affected. It's literally control over the body, the flesh, like say, if Megumi tried to control Sukuna's hand to stop moving, something like that. Not ce physicals or stuff.


tumblr_439b4ce878aee2c1c6ed693c139d3589_f765a2a9_1280.png


A: Not much. It’s like when a dragonfly can still move a bit when its head is ripped off


? ? ? Technique
By using the technique, he can control the flesh. It’s a taboo technique with a lot of mysteries.

Screenshot_20240202_115803.jpg


just clarifying for you (and the rest)

Moving on:
“There are some irregularities, but my CE output is falling below 10%…



It doesn't go as far as hindering my movements in this vessel, but…”
^ Translation by Lightning of the raw scan I posted above. He directly says it is falling below 10%, unlike other TL. Furthermore...

7KB-mi7UhQvceOfIhUNBRw3srG9A0ztzGEqG9Gyz01n_yM5E12iaV44dFYAwO88ngJEJo5aZM7p0snA6grGxMt__QPKVurrbpr5q5fvjpOisbSM9linku-TNCbZ3rugGJ4dB-VdazBK-LFDp=s320


“Probably when I try to hurt his comrades, this body strongly resists me and drops my Cursed Technique’s Cursed Energy output. In that case…” (Lightning TL)
In any case, when he tries or so on, his output drops.
Despite all of this Sukuna thinks this amount of CE output for his ct is enough to comfortably slaughter Yuji?

Ik many people think that if it just says ct output then it shouldn't affect CE output for reinforcement.... which is plain wrong. 1.5F ct level of dismantle and cleave enough to comfortably slaughter Yuji but his fists don't one shot? Obviously they're both affected then. It also doubly doesn't make sense when Megumi would have no reason to not disrupt the general flow of ce being poured into ce output for ct and reinforcement.
jjk_womb7_215_004_1.png


and it ain't like his dismantle is or cleave is several tiers apart really from his own stats. (Given those same slashes didn't do much to gojo individually despite being heavily amped due to being in domain, and Sukuna is still in the same tier as gojo normally, too)
good point, although this only strengthens my conclusion imo
 
He got better, but his stats themselves are the same.
Did you read JJK?

Also Cursed energy doesn’t amp speed
why are you using old arguments that were debunked in this site badly, in a thread about cursed energy amping ur speed.
not just that, but have you even read jjk? cuz if you do then you wouldn't be asking this.
 
he's looking at his arms, a hulk like Todo would still be in his line of sight.
He’s not paying attention though, getting surprised by something coming out of left field while you’re distracted isn’t being out sped. Todo isn’t even that much faster than panda
 
He’s not paying attention though, getting surprised by something coming out of left field while you’re distracted isn’t being out sped. Todo isn’t even that much faster than panda
Not if somethings charging right at you at the centre of your line of sight, also what feat does panda have?
 
It does.

It’s accepted as doing so on site.

Not sure how you could possibly come to this consideration unless you believe sorcs smoke all other humans for some reason other than CE. You’d also be disregarding Megumi’s assessment of no CE Yuji being “fast for someone wothout CE” amd Geto’s explicit confirmation that it does.
Geto never claims this, and Megumi’s statement is about running speed and the strength to push your legs to run faster. Someone with cursed energy has greater physical strength and hence can run faster

Imma downgrade this in the future, but for now as long as *!n$(&/:/st agrees, it’s good and valid (real ones know who that is)
 
Geto never claims this, and Megumi’s statement is about running speed and the strength to push your legs to run faster. Someone with cursed energy has greater physical strength and hence can run faster
Lol.
why does megumi yap about toji being this fast without ce. do you think they are innately this fast in reaction speed and not that ce amps it? 😂
 
This isn't true, Gege has been involved of ALL aspects of the anime from th very beginning with explicit oversite. Tertiary canon means no oversite by the original author. So I'm not sure how you'd conclude it's teritary canon, or be comfortable in making the claim he has no supervision over the project, as all evidence points towards the complete opposite.

The team has extensive communication with Shueisha and Gege

The team wanted to remain faithful to the original and had "alot of discussions closely discussing details" with gege and Shueisha. [2]

MAPPA CEO directly confirming Gege's oversite/direct involvement with Seasons 1/2 and the movie.

Appreciation for Gege's involvement in the process of creating the anime

Anime only scenes are created with Gege's approval [2] [3]

Gege themselves talking about their involvement

Gege even being involved with commenting on the direction of the music

Not quite sure how this signals tertiary canon.
Most of this seems to be about the first ep and just directing the storyboard. Nothing really says all aspects here.
[2] [3] These aren't opening for me though.
And approval doesn't translate to everything's now canon. Feel like that just makes the manga pointless if we're gonna go with anime adaption for whatever reason.
 
Most of this seems to be about the first ep and just directing the storyboard. Nothing really says all aspects here.
[2] [3] These aren't opening for me though.
And approval doesn't translate to everything's now canon. Feel like that just makes the manga pointless if we're gonna go with anime adaption for whatever reason.

Lol.
why does megumi yap about toji being this fast without ce. do you think they are innately this fast in reaction speed and not that ce amps it? 😂
I think it’s probably ok to use the JJK0 movie because it adds stuff that was retconned into happening in JJK0, like the black flashes and whatnot. Also it makes more sense with stuff like Yuta hitting the black flash
 
Its stated that gorilla mode Panda can stall Todo, so he can keep up with him
The full statement "even our combined strength might not be enough to take him down. At first, I was thinking about positioning someone in the rear to keep him occupied - maybe Panda or Megumi" (the same Megumi that got blitzed).

1. Maki isn't sure of how strong Todo is
2. Maki doesn't think realistically that any of them can defeat him, even when fighting together
3. Maki doesn't recommend anyone with relativity to hold Todo back, evident by Megumi even being in the conversation
 
Most of this seems to be about the first ep and just directing the storyboard. Nothing really says all aspects here.
[2] [3] These aren't opening for me though.
And approval doesn't translate to everything's now canon. Feel like that just makes the manga pointless if we're gonna go with anime adaption for whatever reason.
Then you clearly didn't read them all.

I can upload the broken links at a more convienent time as I'll have to save them and am not home right now.

Approval/direct involvement and supervision means secondary canon, which means said feats fall under secondary canon rule. I never said "everything is canon now" so don't put words in my mouth.
 
Geto never claims this,
Literally does in chapter 0, his direct quote being

I suspect this is the first time in your life you've felt so feverous Your body is brimming with Cursed Energy.Your physical abilities have improved, and your all-around abilities* and your fives sense have also been honed.
Which covers both applicable aspects of speed.
and Megumi’s statement is about running speed and the strength to push your legs to run faster.
Motor movements are commensurate to reaction speed which is why you will faceplant if you step onto a treadmill running at 40mph. You need coordination for said movement.
Someone with cursed energy has greater physical strength and hence can run faster
That's not what running is all about, completely neglects the fact that "running fast" requires neuronal input and coordination.
 
Approval/direct involvement and supervision means secondary canon, which means said feats fall under secondary canon rule. I never said "everything is canon now" so don't put words in my mouth.
Oh that's a rule? And I wasn't saying you said that, it was a general statement. I wouldn't personally use secondary canon over the primary for scaling purposes is all.
 
I personally have strict views on canon, so I wouldn't accept the anime, but as per the rules on this site I see no reason why the anime should be excluded as a secondary source.
 
Rosa is learning vsbw over time, NGL. Good on @Rosa


What would even be the 7-C feat?
my good fellow, there are about 20 seperate anime feats that we do not use some that would bump up mid tiers and top tiers into 7-C to high 7-C in AP and provide top tiers speeds in the high hyper range we don't use them because we have little to no confirmation of Gege's oversight over the anime which makes the anime a tertiary canon meaning we can't use any of the extra material per site rules (trust me if this was not a rule I would already be appling to the calc team simply to calc those anime only feats and get them JJK upgrades)
Ask this guy
 
To me it seems like wiggle room for potentially upgrading otherwise underwhelming feats/abilities within the primary source all for the sake of scaling. Which I get the point but then it just makes the primary source have less value if we're gonna end up using secondary sources over it, even provided we have interviews of the author saying they worked on it.
 
To me it seems like wiggle room for potentially upgrading otherwise underwhelming feats/abilities within the primary source all for the sake of scaling. Which I get the point but then it just makes the primary source have less value if we're gonna end up using secondary sources over it, even provided we have interviews of the author saying they worked on it.
This is not a good reason, and there’s precedent in a lot of other shonen verses
 
To me it seems like wiggle room for potentially upgrading otherwise underwhelming feats/abilities within the primary source all for the sake of scaling. Which I get the point but then it just makes the primary source have less value if we're gonna end up using secondary sources over it, even provided we have interviews of the author saying they worked on it.
the only upscaling I'm familiar with is a few more calcs which get characters in their already accepted speed ranges (subsonic - supersonic), one very minor and still consistent AP upgrade, and a few additional hax for Mahoraga (better large size, size manip, underwater breathing, and better regen). So far, all this seems largely insignificant and consistent with the manga.
 
the only upscaling I'm familiar with is a few more calcs which get characters in their already accepted speed ranges (subsonic - supersonic), one very minor and still consistent AP upgrade, and a few additional hax for Mahoraga (better large size, size manip, underwater breathing, and better regen). So far, all this seems largely insignificant and consistent with the manga.
Also body control that allows for air and water manipulation
 
According to Kusakabe, a technique as grand as the World-Cutting Slash "needs a charge-up period or some kind of Binding Vow"

It seems that it needed a charge-up period even before Sukuna made a Binding Vow that added more prerequisites
I don't think so. This might be after Yuta's battle.
Narrative states he needs chants , signs and directions that's all.
 
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