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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

Nah, It's a speed feat. He said they flew there, which took about 10 seconds according to yuji. The only thing now is the distance, which is hard to find, if you can find it at all
I mean that's just factually incorrect, the "flew" quote is from a fan translation. In the official translation Gojo says they "jumped" there, which is commonly used throughout other fictional stories in place of teleportation. Also, like I said at first, in JJK volume 2, of a page extra, it states Gojo used teleportation.
 
Limitless cursed technique part 3
"Gojo is also seen teleporting in both volumes"
The only instance it would be referring to his him bringing Yuji to the battle with Jogo
 
Nobara shouldn't physically scale I believe. Since she used Resonance to damage Mahito.
She actually "damaged" him with her hairpin technique. Regardless she'd only scale to a half power Mahito at most because that was his double, unless that doesn't split his power
 
Just curious since I didn't see the reasoning in the thread, but why do the characters scale to Black Flash again?
 
Well, I reviewed the fight again and I think it only applies to her magic. Since Mahito said she is weak

But I don't know exactly
She was fighting his soul, a nerfed version of him that could hardly use his Cursed Technique, plus he’d already been fighting Yuji prior, so no Nobara doesn’t scale.
 
If the domain expansion (Dagon) had a result of at least High 7-A, would it be considered outlier? Or will we consider that the domain expansion cannot be scaled without being the God-Tiers?
Not necessarily an outlier. Jogo, Toji, Sukuna, and Gojo massively scale above this. They outright said Jogo is on another level, casual Toji killed him, Sukuna & Gojo require no explanation.
 
The problem is that if you scale for Jougo, you scale for Hanami. If you escalate to Hanami, Yuji and Aoi will also be escalated, so basically basically increasing the entire verse
I disagree, because it was already stated Hanami would lose to Jougo, and Jougo was stated to be on a completely different level from Dagon, implying vast superiority.
 
I would even accept Jougo scaling with Dagon's dimension if it weren't for the fact that Dagon was already able to use the dimension in the first form, where she is pathetic in terms of strength. That is, the dimension does not affect Dagon's power, thus not changing Jougo's
What does any of that have to do with my statement? None of that even scales to Hanami regardless, like I’ve been saying. Hanami doesn’t even have Domain Expansion and was being overpowered by Yuji & Todo, while Dagon required Nanami, Naobito, Megumi, and Maki to even begin contending with. Clear difference in power. Toji casually stomped.
 
What I am saying is that, from the first form, he was able to create the dimension. In the first form he is considerably weak and has even fled his opponents. It does not apply to your AP and therefore does not increase Jougo's power. As you can see here, he was pretty useless in battle. So I don't believe that its dimension interferes with your AP
Yes, Dagon in his womb state is very weak, and it’s likely that this Dagon doesn’t have the AP for it. Or AP at all.

However, Cursed Wombs have no real feats, but are expected to become Special Grade. Gojo outright says that Domain Expansion is an upgrade in stats. Imo, Cursed Womb Dagon has the energy to create that space, but has no actual utilized of cursed energy offensively to defend himself or buff himself. Think Yuji, he buffs himself with cursed energy. Think Mahito, he can buff his AP (vs Yuji) & defense (vs Mahito) with cursed energy. Dagon quite literally could be compared to a child in that form, but that all changes when he comes a cursed spirit.
 
Gojo must be MHS + too, but I think you will need a CRT and put these profiles on the profile of the site too
 
Um, may I interject in a few points here?

1. While I agree that Black Flash being an exponential increase in power would be NONSENSE, we don't even have to think to know that. That's because there's no way to square someone's power level, for example. What is the square of a gram of TNT? Is it 4184*4184 Joules? Is it one times one? Is it 4.184*4.184, based on kilojoules? You cannot square amounts of energy without having the unit very well defined. Therefore, I believe the very idea of applying exponentiation to power level is wrong to begin with. We should entirely discard the idea that Black Flash could ever have a "to the power of" increase in the strength of the attack. Instead, I believe it would have made more sense if we considered Black Flash to be a critical hit that increases the strength of the attack by 2.5 TIMES compared to what it was before. This is also compatible with characters who could be damaged slightly without Black Flash being moderately damaged when a hit with it is landed, and characters who could be damaged mildly or normally without Black Flash taking heavy but non-lethal damage (like when Yuuji tanks a Black Flash from Mahito).

2. Why are you people still saying that whoever can use Black Flash is MHS+ reaction speed? Not only has it already been stated that NO ONE in the verse can use Black Flash consistently (i.e, it's always luck ON TOP of a flow-like state), I've already explained that a person's timing can surpass their reaction speed by many, many times over. Just look at the legendary Daigo parry in which a human being hit fourteen frame-perfect (one sixtieth of a second) inputs in a row just through having an amazing timing. If a human doesn't react in any less than around a tenth of a second (usually it's estimated around two tenths for most people's visual reaction speed...), this would be six to twelve times more precise/faster timing than reaction speed. For characters who cannot even land Black Flash consistently and are always totally lucking their way into landing one, we can safely assume that they may as well be dozens or even hundreds of times slower than MHS+.
 
Why are you comparing humans to real life to humans in JJK when it’s been made clear there is a very big gap in physical ability? This fighting game analogy falls flat from chapter one.

This applies to all your arguments actually, because Dream playing a game & Mahito fighting is a wanted curse up against an entire organization meant to kill people like him.
Um, just because it's a game doesn't mean my analogy falls flat. If it's possible for people to have a timing many times faster than their reaction time, then it's possible for people to have a timing many times faster than their reaction time.

Indeed, the idea that "Dream is playing a game, therefore it's an entirely different thing" in no way addresses my analogy. Games can be VERY complex, we need to be talking in terms of the feats themselves, not wheter or not it's a game. Don't forget Chess is a game and people have been fairly considered geniuses for being outright amazing at it. My idea that "it needs to seem inhuman at first glance for you to even begin thinking of calling them a genius" still stands.

So yeah, I'd only give MHS to a character who could consistently perform Black Flashes whenever they so desired. And that's MHS without the plus, IF they're doing it with no special tricks to make it easier on themselves.
 
Stop using this video game analogy, they’ve been capable of superhuman feats with cursed energy since the cursed womb.
Actually, they have been capable of superhuman feats even without cursed energy. Yuuji Itadori was surviving solidly 9-B attacks and performing explicitly superhuman feats before there was a drop of cursed energy enhancing him. This is irrelevant to my argument, my argument is solely to point out that it is possible for a character to have a timing far more precise than their reaction speed is quick, and therefore that timing cannot be used as a measure of reaction speed.
 
Indeed, the idea that "Dream is playing a game, therefore it's an entirely different thing" in no way addresses my analogy. Games can be VERY complex, we need to be talking in terms of the feats themselves, not wheter or not it's a game. Don't forget Chess is a game and people have been fairly considered geniuses for being outright amazing at it. My idea that "it needs to seem inhuman at first glance for you to even begin thinking of calling them a genius" still stands.
Again, none of that compares to a secret organization meant to take down curses, and Mahito has consistently outsmarted these people and proved a threat.

Coupled with the fact that Mahito, Yuji, and Nobara were actively trying to recall that same power again, and Mahito nearly accomplishing said feat till todo appeared, I disagree.
 
Again, none of that compares to a secret organization meant to take down curses, and Mahito has consistently outsmarted these people and proved a threat.

Coupled with the fact that Mahito, Yuji, and Nobara were actively trying to recall that same power again, and Mahito nearly accomplishing said feat till todo appeared, I disagree.
"Proving to be a threat" when one already has an incredible amount of power only requires them to be intelligent enough to be one step ahead of the people making the plans. Once again, I can accept Mahito being very smart/gifted because of that, but not a genius. It's not because the organization is secret and meant to take down curses that anyone capable of outsmarting them is a genius. If you think that way, then you need to remind yourself that both you and I are more intelligent than the current presidents of Brazil and the United States combined. The people at the top of powerful, influential organizations are not necessarily even close to being geniuses and may as well have below average or even far below average intellect (again, just look at politicians all around the world. Do they look like smart people to you? If so, you need glasses). The people making the plans, when experts on their fields, are still quite often just "High" level of intelligence and didn't make massive contributions to those fields.
 
And just a reminder that people who are at the top of organizations which are meant to serve a function, aren't necessarily experts on their fields if these organizations have a history of being corrupt/inefficient/nepotist... which Gojou Satoru has implied, if not directly stated, the authorities in his verse to be.
 
Um, may I interject in a few points here?

1. While I agree that Black Flash being an exponential increase in power would be NONSENSE, we don't even have to think to know that. That's because there's no way to square someone's power level, for example. What is the square of a gram of TNT? Is it 4184*4184 Joules? Is it one times one? Is it 4.184*4.184, based on kilojoules? You cannot square amounts of energy without having the unit very well defined. Therefore, I believe the very idea of applying exponentiation to power level is wrong to begin with. We should entirely discard the idea that Black Flash could ever have a "to the power of" increase in the strength of the attack. Instead, I believe it would have made more sense if we considered Black Flash to be a critical hit that increases the strength of the attack by 2.5 TIMES compared to what it was before. This is also compatible with characters who could be damaged slightly without Black Flash being moderately damaged when a hit with it is landed, and characters who could be damaged mildly or normally without Black Flash taking heavy but non-lethal damage (like when Yuuji tanks a Black Flash from Mahito).

2. Why are you people still saying that whoever can use Black Flash is MHS+ reaction speed? Not only has it already been stated that NO ONE in the verse can use Black Flash consistently (i.e, it's always luck ON TOP of a flow-like state), I've already explained that a person's timing can surpass their reaction speed by many, many times over. Just look at the legendary Daigo parry in which a human being hit fourteen frame-perfect (one sixtieth of a second) inputs in a row just through having an amazing timing. If a human doesn't react in any less than around a tenth of a second (usually it's estimated around two tenths for most people's visual reaction speed...), this would be six to twelve times more precise/faster timing than reaction speed. For characters who cannot even land Black Flash consistently and are always totally lucking their way into landing one, we can safely assume that they may as well be dozens or even hundreds of times slower than MHS+.
Black flash is ^2
 
The multiplier be Black Flash was declined
Why was it? The author kind of admitted that it being exponential is BS, therefore it would make sense to understand that she meant to say "two point five times" in a way that was more impactful/seemed stronger, and ended up saying something dumb, since that's literally what she did.
This would also allow us to consider the protagonist one tier above when using Black Flash.
 
I didn't really understand your point. We are already leaving the characters with Black Flash at a level far above their standard when using the technique, we just don't consider the multiplier to be ^2.5, you reinforced that decision yourself
Oh, I see, I see. I actually think the multiplier of 2.5x (not ^2.5) fits the way the Black Flash effect is shown to work in the series, though. After all, we generally consider 5x AP to Durability ratio to be enough to consistently one-shot, whereas 5x Durability to AP ratio is enough to no-sell an attack. A multiplier of 2.5x is enough to make mild damage become moderate or even severe, which fits the way Black Flash is shown.
But I guess it'll remain as my headcanon for now, then.
 
You can't say Black Flash is 2.5x because it works better, when it is directly mentioned and explained to be ^2.5. Can't just change a whole boost to whatever. In cases with Multipliers and boosts, if it fails to work in the series it is just completely ignored. Since everyone seems to think it doesn't work right now, black flashes will just be ignored and only listed as "Far Higher"
 
Black Flash has already been shown not to be so difficult to run, to deduce that only Gojo and Kento can use it is ridiculous, nor is there anything specific in the image for you to deduce this

Um, it says that only Kento could use BF 4 times in a row. Gojo clearly could do more as the strongest. At the same time, they are opposed by weaker shamans who cannot use BF.
 
Shitty wiki, with shitty logic ...

What contradictions can there be in the author's direct statement of the speed of achievement? All of the feats shown in the manga fit comfortably within the supersonic / + limits.
Prove your point of view instead of cursing the Wiki

There have been several feat above Transonico. Several feat contradict this. Usually the authors have no idea of the power of the verse itself, as the author of Kengan saying that the characters cannot dodge bullets, but the same does characters defending themselves from bullets at point blank range.

And it was not even the author himself who said that the speed is below the sound, it is a quote from the work, which makes it even worse. Since there characters like Goku, who mentioned that he would die to the heat of the center of the earth, even though it has a durability level 3-A... According to your logic, Goku should be below 7-B
 
Shitty wiki, with shitty logic ...
Fantastic argument

What contradictions can there be in the author's direct statement of the speed of achievement?
Calcs above supersonic speed

All of the feats shown in the manga fit comfortably within the supersonic / + limits.
Same answer of the above. At this point, you are just ignoring the multiple calcs (for both ap and speed) and trying to find a way to dismiss them when you have absolutely none except for 1 anti-feat that holds no weight compared to other numerous superior feats that would take precedence
 
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Prove your point of view instead of cursing the Wiki

There have been several feat above Transonico. Several feat contradict this. Usually the authors have no idea of the power of the verse itself, as the author of Kengan saying that the characters cannot dodge bullets, but the same does characters defending themselves from bullets at point blank range.

And it was not even the author himself who said that the speed is below the sound, it is a quote from the work, which makes it even worse. Since there characters like Goku, who mentioned that he would die to the heat of the center of the earth, even though it has a durability level 3-A... According to your logic, Goku should be below 7-B
Actually, it makes sense for Goku to die from the Earth's heat if his durability is usually 3-A~Low 2-C, but he doesn't have Heat Resistance at that same level.
Unless, of course, any attack at level 3-A would produce heat far beyond that scale... which I don't doubt it would, so yeah. Goku could have said he wouldn't survive the heat of the core of the Sun or something similar (maybe a Quasar would be more reasonable, I guess), but center of the Earth doesn't really make sense.
 
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