Journey of the Fate Destroying Emperor: Cosmology blog, and likely 1-A

[Rikimarox2]

Good day!

This thread is meant to establish the cosmology for Journey of the Fate Destroying Emperor, and my god was it a pain to compile this. Please remember that this is subject to change, and WILL likely have a lot of stuff changed in the future. This is moreso for the Lower Dimension shenanigans, and just a glimpse into the Higher Dimension stuff.

Here is the blog;

JTFE: Cosmology Blog

vsbattles.fandom.com

Apologize if it looks jarring, idk what is up with it, and even asked ChatGPT to format it a bit better, but it still looks ehh.

Who will this affect;

• Just Wang Wei lmao, he's the only one with a profile.

What it will change;

• Add a "Likely 3-C" rating to Divine Altar Key Wang Wei, and every other key beyond it if needed.
• Make Primordial Realm Wang Wei a definite 2-C rating, instead of "3-C, likely 3-B, 3-A, likely 2-C with [World-Breaking Fist]
• The same applies to the subsequent keys following Primordial Spirit Realm
• Make all his Type 1 Concept shenanigans at least 1-A in terms of potency(?), likely higher, and especially his NEP as it directly is turning into Nothingness.

Additionally, I'll likely make a Verse page later down the line after this has been accepted. I don't believe those require a CRT, but I figured I should mention it here anyways.

Admittedly, I'm not that well-versed in higher tier shenanigans, and it doesn't help that the verse is really wonky (River of Time/The most Primal Timeline makes even those who could traverse timelines through the past or future, unable to do so, and limits their power greatly, mostly due to the Supreme Being). However, I heard that the Primordial Chaos has a chance of being Low 1-C, mostly due to Wuji shenanigans, but I was unsure, and I'm even more unsure about Nothingness, but oh well, this is what this thread is for.

Here's what is basically happening (thanks to @Deonment), and who it will affect;

• Daos being the concept of their particulars, transcending and being the source of Laws, of which there is a Law for everything, including things such as Space and Time, making them Low 1-A
• Supreme Daos underlie and transcend lesser Daos, fundamentally underlying them (see the river of fate encompassing and being unaffected by someone being erased from the river of time), embodying, and being able to control, create, destroy, and understand all daos, making them potentially 1-A.
• Great Dao Sources are even beyond them, being the ultimate source of all of their particulars, the origin of all Laws and Daos, including those Supreme Daos, being able to completely suppress those who use things derived from the Dao Source, making it a layer into 1-A. -> Dao Ancestors, Immortal Venerables, Great Emperors, and above.
• Primal Chaos is the origin of all Daos, including the Great Dao Sources, being the absolute beginning and absolute end of everything, with it being unaffected by all the world being destroyed, making it further into the same Layer of 1-A as Great Dao Sources since they can still affect it.

Agree (7): @FinePoint, @Deonment (Disagrees with Nothingness Types of Wang Wei, but other than that, he's fine with everything else), , @SweetDao, @Orioreeem, @Pluto321, @BreezeHM, @VeryGoofyToddler2 (Agrees with 1-A Chaos, Lower Dimension, but unsure about the Daos), @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless.

Disagree (1): @ZERGESS (Disagrees with GTWs being universal, and MTW's mortal universes being 2-C, and Primal Chaos giving birth to GDS)

Neutral (1): @ZERGESS (Neutral about Low 1-A).

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I don't see why Nothingness or Primordial Chaos isn't just straight up low 1-A or even 1-A.

 

[Rikimarox2]

I don't see why Nothingness or Primordial Chaos isn't just straight up low 1-A or even 1-A.

Can you tell me why they would be that?

Also, there are quite a few anti-feats (I think), although there are special circumstances to it;

• Characters being able to affect Primordial Chaos with Daos, which are the Type 1 Concept (Albeit they had Grand Dao Source at 5%, but eh), and there aren't other Type 1 Concepts besides Daos and Grand Dao Sources, so like, why would Primordial Chaos be Low 1-A if there aren't Type 1 Concepts it is above (well, besides Primordial Laws, maybe, since it created them and stuff).
• Characters being able to affect Nothingness, such as turning Nothingness into Primordial Chaos, albeit it was stated to be very minor, and was with Grand Dao Source, and even then, they freaked the hell out since it could turn them into Nothingness.
• Probably most damning of it all is the fact that they are still contained within a River of Time, and hell, characters later on that control Grand Dao Source of Time, are still having trouble affecting the entirety of River of Time. Albeit... said River of Time was enhanced via the Grand Dao Eye itself, and made rules for it, and is the Primal Timeline, ie the most fundamental/important one, and is not even connected to space, unlike Laws of Physics where Space-Time are one, and it had many restrictions put upon it via the Grand Dao Eye to the point that Paragons, being who should be able to traverse the River of Time like its their backyard, and affect the entirety of it without being shackled to it, were still restricted to it and can barely change the past, and if they wanted to do something drastic, they had to go to other Timelines. So In other timelines they are fully powerful, but in the main, they are restricted as shit.

Additionally, the verse has some weird shenanigans, like Dimensional Layering, where it was stated that the Grand Dao Eye itself hasn't implemented it into the verse, but stated that worlds that have the concept of Science and Technology (Taboo Concept) have them. It wasn't until later on that Grand Dao Eye implemented a bit of it, such as adding Two Dimensional layers where it was made up of lines and shenanigans. So the verse itself is very ***** ngl.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Can you tell me why they would be that?

Also, there are quite a few anti-feats (I think), although there are special circumstances to it;

• Characters being able to affect Primordial Chaos with Daos, which are the Type 1 Concept (Albeit they had Grand Dao Source at 5%, but eh), and there aren't other Type 1 Concepts besides Daos and Grand Dao Sources, so like, why would Primordial Chaos be Low 1-A if there aren't Type 1 Concepts it is above (well, besides Primordial Laws, maybe, since it created them and stuff).
• Characters being able to affect Nothingness, such as turning Nothingness into Primordial Chaos, albeit it was stated to be very minor, and was with Grand Dao Source, and even then, they freaked the hell out since it could turn them into Nothingness.
• Probably most damning of it all is the fact that they are still contained within a River of Time, and hell, characters later on that control Grand Dao Source of Time, are still having trouble affecting the entirety of River of Time. Albeit... said River of Time was enhanced via the Grand Dao Eye itself, and made rules for it, and is the Primal Timeline, ie the most fundamental/important one, and is not even connected to space, unlike Laws of Physics where Space-Time are one, and it had many restrictions put upon it via the Grand Dao Eye to the point that Paragons, being who should be able to traverse the River of Time like its their backyard, and affect the entirety of it without being shackled to it, were still restricted to it and can barely change the past, and if they wanted to do something drastic, they had to go to other Timelines. So In other timelines they are fully powerful, but in the main, they are restricted as shit.

Additionally, the verse has some weird shenanigans, like Dimensional Layering, where it was stated that the Grand Dao Eye itself hasn't implemented it into the verse, but stated that worlds that have the concept of Science and Technology (Taboo Concept) have them. It wasn't until later on that Grand Dao Eye implemented a bit of it, such as adding Two Dimensional layers where it was made up of lines and shenanigans. So the verse itself is very ***** ngl.

I guess those might be anti feats for 1-A specifically. Type 1 concepts are irrelevant and not necessarily needed for determining if something actually beyond them is low 1-A or not. The river of time seems to be non physical related time honestly as it seems to wholly be unrelated to physical time and space or somewhat unrestricted by even daos/concepts that originate them as you admit. Low 1-A because Nothingness/PC is without distinction in regards to all concepts including physical space and time stuff, as well as sourcing them and possessing all concepts while still not having properties of the concepts.

 

[Rikimarox2]

If type 1 concepts aren't needed for Low 1-A, then shiiit. That's very good, especially since physical Time is just, not a thing in-verse/the River of Time isn't physical lmao (As in, the normal world, not the world with science and technology), and is mostly conceptual.

I'll add "likely" Low 1-A to Primordial Chaos soon, then. Or just straight up Low 1-A if that's what people think fits better.

 

[Da3ggman]

Thought this was Journey to the West and got disappointed smh…

 

[Rikimarox2]

Thought this was Journey to the West and got disappointed smh…

If it helps, Journey to the West DOES exist in-verse (kinda)

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

If type 1 concepts aren't needed for Low 1-A, then shiiit. That's very good, especially since physical Time is just, not a thing in-verse/the River of Time isn't physical lmao (As in, the normal world, not the world with science and technology), and is mostly conceptual.

I'll add "likely" Low 1-A to Primordial Chaos soon, then. Or just straight up Low 1-A if that's what people think fits better.

Type 1 concepts are only really needed if you want low 1-A because something scales to a concept that encompasses all possible particulars. While being beyond space/time stuff (or concept of) makes concept type irrelevant.

 

[Deonment]

At LeastLow 1-C for Primal Chaos seems very much hard confirmed, as the already 2-A Chaos Worlds are finite in comparison to it. I disagree with scaling Chaos to Wuji, as equating Wuji and Chaos, seems wrong as the first scan in the Chaos section directly brings up how like, Wuji is directly the cause of the Dao, and then the Dao creating 1, 2 and 3, and then Chaos as we see in the later scans, at most I would equate it to Hongmeng, but not Chaos. And this interpretation does seem to align with the next segment regarding nothingness, as Hongmeng/Wuji/Nothingness originates Chaos (which is said multiple times in different ways), eventually returning to that original state of emptiness/stillness (reading this blog this also has me questioning the validity of his ND3 and NEP2, but that's for a potentially different thread, unless he didn't advance his nothingness at all until chap 1009).

However, I would be fine with it being At Least (Low) 1-A off it creating the world, in addition to the Great Dao Sources. With Great Dao Sources standing as the ultimate particualrs of their particulars, which include other concepts and laws, which found and govern Space, Time and Fate. I could also see arguments for lesser Daos than the Great Dao Sources also being 1-A, (in addition to the fact that Innate Laws just seem to be the same thing as Primordial Laws but with a different name to me).

Anyways, I agree with 1-A for Nothingness, though I would to see those scans of people with Grand Dao Sources affecting Nothingness, as depending on the context I can see an argument for like, High 1-A Nothingness, or at the very least some layers into 1-A for it.

 

[Rikimarox2]

At LeastLow 1-C for Primal Chaos seems very much hard confirmed, as the already 2-A Chaos Worlds are finite in comparison to it. I disagree with scaling Chaos to Wuji, as equating Wuji and Chaos, seems wrong as the first scan in the Chaos section directly brings up how like, Wuji is directly the cause of the Dao, and then the Dao creating 1, 2 and 3, and then Chaos as we see in the later scans, at most I would equate it to Hongmeng, but not Chaos. And this interpretation does seem to align with the next segment regarding nothingness, as Hongmeng/Wuji/Nothingness originates Chaos (which is said multiple times in different ways), eventually returning to that original state of emptiness/stillness (reading this blog this also has me questioning the validity of his ND3 and NEP2, but that's for a potentially different thread, unless he didn't advance his nothingness at all until chap 1009).

Wuji can be used as an attack, just wanted to point that out if that can cause issues or not;

Spoiler

[Wuji Sword: The Unmanifest Sword]

Golden blood spewed from Monk Wuzhi's body as a diagonal scar appeared on his chest. He could not sense, see, or detect the slash in any shape or form.

In Taoism, Wuji symbolizes the unmanifest, the unknown, the undetectable, and the nonexistent. Meanwhile, Taji–the successor of Wuji–symbolizes the manifest or the physical.

Monk Wuzhi has often suffered against that sword since he could not detect it with his eyes, his reaction, his danger sense, his Divine Sense, or even eye secret techniques. At least before, that was the case.

That said, I am, pretty sure that Wuji isn't the same as Hongmeng, with Hongmeng being the place where Transcendents are, and the place where everything/every concept, known and unknown, all exist at the same time (kinda the only thing we know about it yet).

As for ND3 and NEP2, he did advance his Nothingness prior to 1009, by quite a bit. Tho by that point (Ch. 1009), it's kinda no longer just an activation thing but somewhat ingrained into some of his being. Not sure if that changes stuff. Tho if that invalidates things, I don't mind making another CRT down the line for fixing it.

However, I would be fine with it being At Least (Low) 1-A off it creating the world, in addition to the Great Dao Sources. With Great Dao Sources standing as the ultimate particualrs of their particulars, which include other concepts and laws, which found and govern Space, Time and Fate. I could also see arguments for lesser Daos than the Great Dao Sources also being 1-A, (in addition to the fact that Innate Laws just seem to be the same thing as Primordial Laws but with a different name to me).

Primordial Laws are basically Innate Laws, but kinda just buffed. Whereas Innate Laws are for normal worlds, Primordial Laws are from the Primordial Chaos itself, ie special version of Innate Laws.

Anyways, I agree with 1-A for Nothingness, though I would to see those scans of people with Grand Dao Sources affecting Nothingness, as depending on the context I can see an argument for like, High 1-A Nothingness, or at the very least some layers into 1-A for it.

For affecting Nothingness itself, it's moreso that they conjure it (?), and another statement talking about how a character could convert Nothingness into Primordial Chaos, but aside from that, I don't really recall much.

Not sure why there'd be layers to be completely honest with you guys, nor why it is suddenly 1-A, especially since Cultivators could affect them in some way (if they have some understanding of it), or temper their will power with it (such as Wang Wei entering a world of pure nothingness, which embodied the idea of nothing), but here are some feats;

Spoiler

So, once Primordial Chaos dies, returning to a state before it existed or was created, the only thing remaining is [Nothingness]. Primordial Chaos was created from a state of nothingness; the universe's birth is a process from nothing to something, from nonexistent to existence, and from imaginary to real.

With this technique, Xu Shi managed to control a bit of the power of Nothingness, which slightly surprised Chu Luo. However, he remained calm as he watched this terrifying power, manifested as a dark gray cloud, rush toward him to reduce him to nothingness.

'It's so beautiful, yet terrifying,' he thought as he gazed at that cloud. His thought was running faster than any photons. This technique was brilliant, but he had ways to deal with it.

'I could create a Void-Chaos Converter Cauldron that transformed [Nothingness] into [Primordial Chaos]. Although I would need to be extra careful to ensure the terrifying power did not swallow my technique, it could still work. But if I did this, we would return back to where we started - an even match.'

Unfortunately, everyone brave enough to use that concept—except for one—died tragically as their bodies, souls, and Dao were extinguished by the very power they had tried to control. The only survivor was an Inextinguishable Paragon who wanted to change his concept from [Eternity] to [Nothingness].

To that barbarian's credit, he made excellent achievements in the Path of Nothingness during his attempt. His achievements were even higher than Wang Wei. According to Wang Wei's division of the Power Nothingness, there are four stages: Intangible, Void, Emptiness, and True Nothingness.

Wang Wei was currently at the peak of the Void Stage, and once he achieves Taboo with this power, he'll enter the Emptiness Stage. That barbarian reached the peak of the Emptiness Stage. Sadly, he made the same mistake as everyone who tried to walk this path — trying to control True Nothingness in one step.

According to Wang Wei's recent speculations, he'll only achieve True Nothingness after entering the Half-Step Transcendent Realm. That barbarian did not understand this and almost died in his attempt to control True Nothingness. Luckily, he was a wise man and controlled his greed. At the last moment, he abandoned this path despite it looking like he was so close.

Honestly I'm kinda confused right now, but there's another feat/thing In-verse I wanted to mention to see if it is an anti-feat;

Spoiler

The Grand Dao Source is the origin of all laws or Daos in the Chaos Universe, and it is the highest form of power.

As the name implies, the Grand Dao Source is the root or origin of all laws, concepts, or rules that make up the entire universe. By controlling it, Great Emperors have no restraint wherever they go: whether it is Primordial Chaos or any Chaos Worlds.


And by the time they become Paragons, the level of control over these concepts reaches unimaginable. A cultivator has to become the sole controller of whatever Dao he cultivates, granting powerful authority.

For example, a Peak Paragon who controls 100% of Fire Dao can stripe the power of a Paragon with only 99% control.


And if the 99% Paragon wants to reach the peak of the paragon realm, they have two options.

Firstly, fight the peak Paragon and remove their Imprint in the Fire Dao, replacing their opponent. Of course, it would be best if they were lucky and no one had this position. The second option is to make their Dao unique, for example, Yin Fire, Flower Fire, Sun Fire, etc. In this situation, the peak Fire Paragon could only reduce the 99% Fire Paragon's strength and not completely remove their control.

With a unique Dao, the 99% Fire Paragon would essentially create a new Grand Dao Source of Yin-Fire or Flower Fire.


At the beginning of the Chaos Universe, there were only 3800 Grand Dao Sources, consistent with the 3800 Primary Daos. But, with the rise of cultivators, an infinite number of new Sources appeared, blooming the universe into prosperity.

Would this invalidate anything? Basically, cultivators can (kinda) make new Grand Dao Sources, if it hasn't been made before, such as Yin-Fire or Flower Fire, based on their Dao/Way. Of course, the original GDS that it came from (for example, Fire Dao and Yin-Fire) will still have a lot of influence over it, such as a 100% GDS Paragon being able to reduce the strength of a Yin-Fire by 99%, instead of the usual 100%. Was wondering if this could affect anything.

 

[Deonment]

Wuji can be used as an attack, just wanted to point that out if that can cause issues or not;

I mean, this doesn't seem to be Wuji itself, but instead a technique rooted in its "concept" or was manipulating the Law of Wuji, which I also wanted to bring up as something that I don't think actually is or governs Wuji itself, and it wouldn't be the only thing I've noticed something like thus, such as with the Supreme Dao of Greater Chaos exists, it seems like there can exist lesser concepts/laws that "represent" the thing, but aren't in-of-itself those transcendental things or govern them, but instead a lesser "iteration".

That said, I am, pretty sure that Wuji isn't the same as Hongmeng, with Hongmeng being the place where Transcendents are, and the place where everything/every concept, known and unknown, all exist at the same time (kinda the only thing we know about it yet).

Huh, neat, scuffed, but neat I'm guessing that's another retcon? Either way it doesn't really change my point of Wuji/Nothingness being the same

As for ND3 and NEP2, he did advance his Nothingness prior to 1009, by quite a bit. Tho by that point (Ch. 1009), it's kinda no longer just an activation thing but somewhat ingrained into some of his being. Not sure if that changes stuff. Tho if that invalidates things, I don't mind making another CRT down the line for fixing it.

I'm mostly asking if he advanced beyond the Intangiblity state into Void or Emptiness before then, mainly because
For the ND3 as I mentioned above, I don't think the Law of Wuji actually fully replicates the properties/nature of Wuji, and even if it did, the aspects used to give NEP2 are ones that are directly called out as the ones that contain aspects of nothingness, and as such the state would be at most equal to Wuji rather than being emptier than it.
For the NEP2, I'm not sure it would actually include all aspects or be properly NEP2 before 1009, as the way he killed the person in the intangiblity state was through messing with their mind/using illusions, which shows that the mind/soul is still present in some aspect, in addition to how its explicitly stated that even Void still has some aspects still around, before Emptiness actually wholly lacks everything.

I also question his NEP scaling to Nothingness, seeing as how it is explicitly not on the same level as True Nothingness, in addition to how he almost EE'd himself when he got enlightened on it for the first time.

For affecting Nothingness itself, it's moreso that they conjure it (?), and another statement talking about how a character could convert Nothingness into Primordial Chaos, but aside from that, I don't really recall much.

The quotes here are scuffed, mostly because spoilers and quotes don't work well together and cuts off the rest of the quote once it reaches a certain length (without being able to extend it to the full length), so I would say just put the quotes in spoilers instead, because otherwise I can't actually see everything, and I would rather not make a judgement about it without having full context

Not sure why there'd be layers to be completely honest with you guys, nor why it is suddenly 1-A, especially since Cultivators could affect them in some way (if they have some understanding of it), or temper their will power with it (such as Wang Wei entering a world of pure nothingness, which embodied the idea of nothing), but here are some feats

That isn't necessarily an antifeat, since comprehending a potentially 1-A thing and then using comprehension to get stronger/use the thing isn't an antifeat. Great Daos affecting Chaos is technically an antifeat, but only to extra layers of 1-A, not to 1-A in-of-itself, since Daos can already be 1-A, the affecting Nothingness stops it from once more being more layers into stuff (unless they did said manipulation using the "dao" of Nothingness), the River of Time stuff would only be an antifeat if A) There wasn't already a Great Dao level thing enforcing stuff, and B)If the river of time was physical time, not Time as a Concept.
1-A would be coming from:

• Daos being the concept of their particulars, transcending and being the source of Laws, of which there is a Law for everything, including things such as Space and Time, making them Low 1-A
• Supreme Daos underlie and transcend lesser Daos, fundamentally underlying them (see the river of fate encompassing and being unaffected by someone being erased from the river of time), embodying, and being able to control, create, destroy, and understand all daos, making them potentially 1-A.
• Great Dao Sources are even beyond them, being the ultimate source of all of their particulars, the origin of all Laws and Daos, including those Supreme Daos, being able to completely suppress those who use things derived from the Dao Source, making it a layer into 1-A.
• Primal Chaos is the origin of all Daos, including the Great Dao Sources, being the absolute beginning and absolute end of everything, with it being unaffected by all the world being destroyed, making it further into the same Layer of 1-A as Great Dao Sources since they can still affect it.

My argument for High 1-A Nothingness/Wuji would have needed it to not have antifeats, but it seems like it does (people turning chaos into it, and it "existing" within normal reality, but the main thing would have been it transcending and creating the above hierarchy as it is the undifferntiated nothingness that created the Tao, which created the One, the Two, and the Three, which created Chaos. Chaos and everything which followed being something that is "existent" and "real", whereas Nothingness is none of that.

Would this invalidate anything? Basically, cultivators can (kinda) make new Grand Dao Sources, if it hasn't been made before, such as Yin-Fire or Flower Fire, based on their Dao/Way. Of course, the original GDS that it came from (for example, Fire Dao and Yin-Fire) will still have a lot of influence over it, such as a 100% GDS Paragon being able to reduce the strength of a Yin-Fire by 99%, instead of the usual 100%. Was wondering if this could affect anything.

Nah, since they are creating it using the old Grand Dao Source as a basis, they aren't entirely creating something potentially 1-A from nothing 1-A, so it can still be fine.

Also more second life ranker revisions when

 

[Orioreeem]

You added scans for higher dimension but did proposed it to be Low 1-C. Chaos Worlds alone would be Low 1-C then

 

[Pluto321]

Looks good, agree.

 

[Rikimarox2]

I mean, this doesn't seem to be Wuji itself, but instead a technique rooted in its "concept" or was manipulating the Law of Wuji, which I also wanted to bring up as something that I don't think actually is or governs Wuji itself, and it wouldn't be the only thing I've noticed something like thus, such as with the Supreme Dao of Greater Chaos exists, it seems like there can exist lesser concepts/laws that "represent" the thing, but aren't in-of-itself those transcendental things or govern them, but instead a lesser "iteration".

Huh, neat, scuffed, but neat I'm guessing that's another retcon? Either way it doesn't really change my point of Wuji/Nothingness being the same

I'm saying they aren't the same mostly because there are people who could cultivate the actual Dao of Wuji, compared to Nothingness, which pretty much no one bar a few, and there are statements where Wuji Dao was used to get some properties of the Primordial Chaos, or some Properties of Nothingness. Not to mention it clearly makes the distinction by saying some properties of Wuji apply to Nothingness, which made me think they aren't the same thing.

Tho for Lesser Chaos and Greater Chaos, it's a bit convoluted, but here's the scan;

Wang Wei always knew there were two different Chaos Dao, but he never knew the exact classification until he received Ao Tianyi's memories. Lesser Chaos Dao referred to the Dao Lin Fan cultivated before he became an Outlaw.

Lesser Chaos Dao directly cultivates Chaos Law, which involves things like Grandmist, sub-laws like Destruction, Creation, Absolute Beginning and Absolute End, Origin, and others.

Meanwhile, Great Chaos Dao is when cultivated decided to cultivate all 3800 Primary Daos to a high level before fusing them; this Dao is on the path of becoming nigh omnipotent. It's the Dao of mastering all concepts, laws, and rules; it's the Dao of becoming the embodiment of all things in existence.

For Wuji and Nothingness;

Spoiler

"Plus, he only needed them to buy enough time to save his life, and he succeeded. He waved his hand to manifest the Yin-Yang Tai Chi Symbol.

The symbol rotated, rapidly evolving into something more complex.

"Yin-Yang (Taiji) evolving into Wuji," muttered Di Tian, and he was correct. After watching Zhang Yucheng's battle with Monk Wuzhi, he learned about the benefit of understanding Wuji Dao to his fleshly body's concept of [Nothingness], so he designated time to evolve his Yin-Yang Law into Wuji when needed.

So, during this battle, he used Wuji to imbue his body with one of the properties of Primordial Chaos–Infinite. After his body attained that property, he did not care for the destruction of that world." - Ch. 872

"He used Wuji Dao to bless his fleshly body, temporarily entering the second stage of nothingness: [Void].

Boom!

The hand passed through him, leaving him intact.

'Still injured, huh,' muttered Wang Wei as he looked at the necrotic part of his left arm. Even with his current body, which is the level of pure concept, he was severely injured as that part died."

It just feels off to consider them the same, when the verse makes no effort to point that out, and the fact that people can use powers of Wuji, but majority of people cannot use the power of nothingness without being assimilated/ceasing to exist. Though Wuji is a bit ehh, considering it wasn't mentioned much after the Lower Dimension. I feel like the verse, especially with how direct it is, would've made it clear that they are the same thing or part of the same thing, at the very least.

Though, for the retcon, it's not really a retcon considering the same chapter that said Hongmeng came before Primordial Chaos, and gave birth to it, is the same chapter where it said everything exists all at once. It seems moreso to me that Hongmeng >? Nothingness > Primordial Chaos.

I'm mostly asking if he advanced beyond the Intangiblity state into Void or Emptiness before then, mainly because
For the ND3 as I mentioned above, I don't think the Law of Wuji actually fully replicates the properties/nature of Wuji, and even if it did, the aspects used to give NEP2 are ones that are directly called out as the ones that contain aspects of nothingness, and as such the state would be at most equal to Wuji rather than being emptier than it.
For the NEP2, I'm not sure it would actually include all aspects or be properly NEP2 before 1009, as the way he killed the person in the intangiblity state was through messing with their mind/using illusions, which shows that the mind/soul is still present in some aspect, in addition to how its explicitly stated that even Void still has some aspects still around, before Emptiness actually wholly lacks everything.

I highly doubt the Mind/Spirit exist in a "physical"/"spiritual" sense when one enters Intangibility state, especially since when WW got his Intangibility state, he had already fused with his Primordial Spirit, which is his mind/soul, and I'm pretty Di Tian tried to use soul/mind attacks on WW but it just went through without affecting him.

That said, I gotta revisit those chapters later on, so I'll tackle this later on, or I'll just send scans or talk about it later on your wall when I reread them, if you like.

The quotes here are scuffed, mostly because spoilers and quotes don't work well together and cuts off the rest of the quote once it reaches a certain length (without being able to extend it to the full length), so I would say just put the quotes in spoilers instead, because otherwise I can't actually see everything, and I would rather not make a judgement about it without having full context

Spoiler

"So, once Primordial Chaos dies, returning to a state before it existed or was created, the only thing remaining is [Nothingness]. Primordial Chaos was created from a state of nothingness; the universe's birth is a process from nothing to something, from nonexistent to existence, and from imaginary to real.

With this technique, Xu Shi managed to control a bit of the power of Nothingness, which slightly surprised Chu Luo. However, he remained calm as he watched this terrifying power, manifested as a dark gray cloud, rush toward him to reduce him to nothingness.

'It's so beautiful, yet terrifying,' he thought as he gazed at that cloud. His thought was running faster than any photons. This technique was brilliant, but he had ways to deal with it.

'I could create a Void-Chaos Converter Cauldron that transformed [Nothingness] into [Primordial Chaos]. Although I would need to be extra careful to ensure the terrifying power did not swallow my technique, it could still work. But if I did this, we would return back to where we started - an even match.'"


"Unfortunately, everyone brave enough to use that concept—except for one—died tragically as their bodies, souls, and Dao were extinguished by the very power they had tried to control. The only survivor was an Inextinguishable Paragon who wanted to change his concept from [Eternity] to [Nothingness].

To that barbarian's credit, he made excellent achievements in the Path of Nothingness during his attempt. His achievements were even higher than Wang Wei. According to Wang Wei's division of the Power Nothingness, there are four stages: Intangible, Void, Emptiness, and True Nothingness.

Wang Wei was currently at the peak of the Void Stage, and once he achieves Taboo with this power, he'll enter the Emptiness Stage. That barbarian reached the peak of the Emptiness Stage. Sadly, he made the same mistake as everyone who tried to walk this path — trying to control True Nothingness in one step.

According to Wang Wei's recent speculations, he'll only achieve True Nothingness after entering the Half-Step Transcendent Realm. That barbarian did not understand this and almost died in his attempt to control True Nothingness. Luckily, he was a wise man and controlled his greed. At the last moment, he abandoned this path despite it looking like he was so close."

That isn't necessarily an antifeat, since comprehending a potentially 1-A thing and then using comprehension to get stronger/use the thing isn't an antifeat. Great Daos affecting Chaos is technically an antifeat, but only to extra layers of 1-A, not to 1-A in-of-itself, since Daos can already be 1-A, the affecting Nothingness stops it from once more being more layers into stuff (unless they did said manipulation using the "dao" of Nothingness)

I don't think, till now, there is anyone that actually manipulated the Dao of Nothingness, but more like getting powers from it.

, the River of Time stuff would only be an antifeat if A) There wasn't already a Great Dao level thing enforcing stuff, and B)If the river of time was physical time, not Time as a Concept.
1-A would be coming from:

• Daos being the concept of their particulars, transcending and being the source of Laws, of which there is a Law for everything, including things such as Space and Time, making them Low 1-A
• Supreme Daos underlie and transcend lesser Daos, fundamentally underlying them (see the river of fate encompassing and being unaffected by someone being erased from the river of time), embodying, and being able to control, create, destroy, and understand all daos, making them potentially 1-A.
• Great Dao Sources are even beyond them, being the ultimate source of all of their particulars, the origin of all Laws and Daos, including those Supreme Daos, being able to completely suppress those who use things derived from the Dao Source, making it a layer into 1-A.

For Supreme Daos, they actually exist for Grand Dao Source as well, so it's more like;

Supreme GD > normal Grand Dao Sources > Supreme Daos > Daos

Also more second life ranker revisions when

Once I finish with JFDE, Yeon-woo got too many good things to pass up not indexing.

 

[Deonment]

I'm saying they aren't the same mostly because there are people who could cultivate the actual Dao of Wuji, compared to Nothingness, which pretty much no one bar a few, and there are statements where Wuji Dao was used to get some properties of the Primordial Chaos, or some Properties of Nothingness. Not to mention it clearly makes the distinction by saying some properties of Wuji apply to Nothingness, which made me think they aren't the same thing.

For Wuji and Nothingness;

It just feels off to consider them the same, when the verse makes no effort to point that out, and the fact that people can use powers of Wuji, but majority of people cannot use the power of nothingness without being assimilated/ceasing to exist. Though Wuji is a bit ehh, considering it wasn't mentioned much after the Lower Dimension. I feel like the verse, especially with how direct it is, would've made it clear that they are the same thing or part of the same thing, at the very least.

Yeah but they are distinctly like, explained in nigh-exact same ways, in the exact same position, and with lesser iterations of it holding enough insight into the concept that it can give someone [Void] by itself, like to quote from the blog and stuff

Wuji represented the state of the universe before its birth, a state of stillness that embodied the concept of nonexistent. Then, from nothingness was born something; Dao gave birth to one, one gave birth to two, two gave birth to three, and three gave birth to myriad things in existence.
These words perfectly encapsulated the process of Wuji transforming into Taiji, a process in which nothingness (stillness) created something (motion).

So, once Primordial Chaos dies, returning to a state before it existed or was created, the only thing remaining is [Nothingness]. Primordial Chaos was created from a state of nothingness; the universe's birth is a process from nothing to something, from nonexistent to existence, and from imaginary to real.

Even if you want to argue that Wuji has a Dao easier to understand than Nothingness, that doesn't exactly change the fact that fundamentally (and by your own arguments none the less) Wuji by necessity has to not only precede Primordial Chaos (as seen in the chap 886 scan), but also has to predate its Dao, given that it is directly stated to be the source of the Dao, lesser substatations of a concept or its emanations carrying properties of the true thing is a genuinely common enough concept in fiction that there existing a Dao (Source) of Wuji that carries its properties, in addition to things such as Chaos carring said properties, doesn't really mean much outside of showing relation between the concepts, not that one is neccesilariy inferior or lesser than the other. Though if the Author does generally go with a more blunt approach (and also hasn't had Wuji show up at all after Lower Dimension) I must ask the author to please, please, pick a ******* lane with your cosmology stuff dawg.

Tho for Lesser Chaos and Greater Chaos, it's a bit convoluted, but here's the scan;

Yeah that does kinda prove my above point about Wuji, where the Chaos Dao very much shares properties with Primordial Chaos and clearly has aspects rooted in it, but isn't it.

Though, for the retcon, it's not really a retcon considering the same chapter that said Hongmeng came before Primordial Chaos, and gave birth to it, is the same chapter where it said everything exists all at once. It seems moreso to me that Hongmeng >? Nothingness > Primordial Chaos.

That seems kinda scuffed to me, considering we have like, 3 different origins for Primordial Chaos which are all described in similar ways, but okay

Spoiler Snip

Yeah, that's a shot in the knees for Nothingness being High 1-A, would just be further into whatever potential level of (Low) 1-A it finds itself in.

I highly doubt the Mind/Spirit exist in a "physical"/"spiritual" sense when one enters Intangibility state, especially since when WW got his Intangibility state, he had already fused with his Primordial Spirit, which is his mind/soul, and I'm pretty Di Tian tried to use soul/mind attacks on WW but it just went through without affecting him.

That said, I gotta revisit those chapters later on, so I'll tackle this later on, or I'll just send scans or talk about it later on your wall when I reread them, if you like.

Sure, take it to my wall or DMs, since I am kinda sus on the Intangiblity state stuff

I don't think, till now, there is anyone that actually manipulated the Dao of Nothingness, but more like getting powers from it.

Wouldn't be an antifeat then, but the scans in spoilers are kinda just antifeats for any potential High 1-A (or even another layer into 1-A) stuff

For Supreme Daos, they actually exist for Grand Dao Source as well, so it's more like;

Supreme GD > normal Grand Dao Sources > Supreme Daos > Daos

Aight then, another layer

Once I finish with JFDE, Yeon-woo got too many good things to pass up not indexing.

Maybe we'll finally have a page that isn't for the manhwa or for nessie

 

[Rikimarox2]

Nessie was the easiest, so I had to make her. Every other character has a bajillion stuff

Anyways, yeah, when I get to revisit those chapters, I'll go to the message wall to talk about it and sort it out, then make a CRT if needed.

Tho as if rn, the general consensus is;

Primordial Chaos = Low 1-A, likely 1-A (?)
Nothingness = Low 1-A, likely 1-A
Grand Dao Source = same shenanigans.

Tho I don't assume you or anyone else in this thread have problems with the Lower Dimension stuff? The sizes, I mean.

 

[Pluto321]

sizes

I am completely fine with lower dimensions stuff.

Primordial Chaos = Low 1-A, likely 1-A (?)
Nothingness = Low 1-A, likely 1-A
Grand Dao Source = same shenanigans.

But I am not sure about 1A stuff, low 1A looks fine.

 

[Deonment]

Primordial Chaos = Low 1-A, likely 1-A (?)
Nothingness = Low 1-A, likely 1-A
Grand Dao Source = same shenanigans.

Ye though for me its more solid, with Daos (Low 1-A)<Supreme Daos(1-A)<Grand Dao Source(1 Layer into 1-A)<Supreme Grand Dao Source (2 Layers into 1-A)
Scale nothingness and Primordial Chaos where appropriate
I would argue more/further rn, but Laws are type 2 concepts, so

Edit: Also yeah im fine with the lower dimension stuff

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bump.

I think I need like, at least 2 staff vote, then an additional admin vote at least. Damn.

 

[Orioreeem]

If we're wanking where's my higher dimension wank?

 

[Rikimarox2]

If we're wanking where's my higher dimension wank?

The higher dimension wank is for another thread, when WW reaches Quasi-Emperor/Mortal Emperor stage

Though Chaos World is in a bit of a weird spot rn ngl, but Primordial Chaos Itself might be Low 1-A, so eh. Just let it be until we get Mortal Emperor Stage.

 

[BreezeHM]

Yeah this looks fine.

 

[ZERGESS]

Even if a cultivator exceeds the threshold it can't instantly destroy a stw,mtw or any world it would take a while before they can destroy it unless there is instances shown
As for the mtw (specifically Heavenly abode realm)being to 2C because of those 'mortal-universe' are referring to mortal worlds
As for gtw being 2C is not close especially proven by your state that some or even each are just billions of lighyears away from each other and actually each world is refreed to As universe in the world in many narrative of the series, so being referred to as universe doesn't make it universal in size
And nothing here makes it low 1C though there is a sliver of chance of it being Low 1A though I doubt that given the insufficient evidence we might have to wait for more chapters
As for GDS being Low 1A I'm neutral for now unless the nothingness gets approve as low 1A

 

[Rikimarox2]

Even if a cultivator exceeds the threshold it can't instantly destroy a stw,mtw or any world it would take a while before they can destroy it unless there is instances shown

This doesn't really have any evidence to suggest? Unless you can give me scans where it explictly states that it works this way.

Otherwise, we were shown with Wang Wei and GTW, where he stated that he could single-handedly destroy the majority of the world, but still cannot destroy all of it, since his peak wasn't Dao Ancestor.

As for the mtw (specifically Heavenly abode realm)being to 2C because of those 'mortal-universe' are referring to mortal worlds

....? Geniunely don't understand what you mean here, why would it matter if they referred to "mortal worlds" (which isn't stated anywhere btw), when there is an explicit statement showing that it is bigger than mortal universes? Would appreciate any scans or something.

As for gtw being 2C is not close especially proven by your state that some or even each are just billions of lighyears away from each other and actually each world is refreed to As universe in the world in many narrative of the series, so being referred to as universe doesn't make it universal in size

Also don't understand how that debunks GTWs being Low 2-C/2-C in size. "Just billions of lightyears away from each other", brother, the flags in a GTW, are billions of lightyears away from each other, and the verse calls it a universe, and has its own branch of a timeline. Like, with all of these, I don't get how it can't be 2-C?

 

[Deonment]

And nothing here makes it low 1C though there is a sliver of chance of it being Low 1A though I doubt that given the insufficient evidence we might have to wait for more chapters

An infinite space being finite in comparison to something else makes it Low 1-C automatically, so considering the relationship between Primordial Chaos and the directly 2-A Chaos worlds, its Low 1-C bare minimum. It being Low 1-A isn't that unlikely, what is already here is enough for 1-A, seeing as Daos already transcend and are the source of Laws, which source Time and Space, with Supreme Daos transcending and founding those, making them 1-A

 

[ZERGESS]

This doesn't really have any evidence to suggest? Unless you can give me scans where it explictly states that it works this way.

Otherwise, we were shown with Wang Wei and GTW, where he stated that he could single-handedly destroy the majority of the world, but still cannot destroy all of it, since his peak wasn't Dao Ancestor.

Brother the burden of proof is on you and you really did give a proof brother where wang Chang attacked a world which only has Supreme realm at its highest with void shattering realm power but the thought of destroying the world didn't cross his mind and he just expected it to shake the entire world, this should be clear enough (though it might be possible if there is such a large gap nothing has been shown yet)

....? Geniunely don't understand what you mean here, why would it matter if they referred to "mortal worlds" (which isn't stated anywhere btw), when there is an explicit statement showing that it is bigger than mortal universes? Would appreciate any scans or something.

Below stw there is mortal worlds those

Also don't understand how that debunks GTWs being Low 2-C/2-C in size. "Just billions of lightyears away from each other", brother, the flags in a GTW, are billions of lightyears away from each other, and the verse calls it a universe, and has its own branch of a timeline. Like, with all of these, I don't get how it can't be 2-C?

The thing is the observable universe here is at least 94billion lightyears yet some of those flag are just billions of light years away meaning it shouldn't exceed 10 billion lightyears cuz if it does it will be stated as tens of billions of lightyears
As I have said WORLDS ARE REFERRED AS UNIVERSE IN MANY NARRATIVE IN THE SERIES and you provided solid proof of that saying mtw are bigger than galaxy on average yet you're saying it contains 36 universe which is pretty obvious that those "5 universe no smaller than mortal universe" are referring to mortal worlds below stw

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Brother the burden of proof is on you and you really did give a proof brother where wang Chang attacked a world which only has Supreme realm at its highest with void shattering realm power but the thought of destroying the world didn't cross his mind and he just expected it to shake the entire world, this should be clear enough (though it might be possible if there is such a large gap nothing has been shown yet)

Below stw there is mortal worlds those

The thing is the observable universe here is at least 94billion lightyears yet some of those flag are just billions of light years away meaning it shouldn't exceed 10 billion lightyears cuz if it does it will be stated as tens of billions of lightyears
As I have said WORLDS ARE REFERRED AS UNIVERSE IN MANY NARRATIVE IN THE SERIES and you provided solid proof of that saying mtw are bigger than galaxy on average yet you're saying it contains 36 universe which is pretty obvious that those "5 universe no smaller than mortal universe" are referring to mortal worlds below stw

"Billions of light years" doesn't cap it at a few billion light years. Tens of billions is more exact but again there's no contradiction using former. That's just low end VSBW uses and not absolute. If there's reasons to believe it's universal in scope like being called a universe then those "bilions of light years" likely refer to the observable universe.

 

[Deonment]

but the thought of destroying the world didn't cross his mind and he just expected it to shake the entire world, this should be clear enough (though it might be possible if there is such a large gap nothing has been shown yet)

Shaking something still scales you to it, if you shake a 2-A structure you are still 2-A, because significatly affecting something doesn't just mean destroying it

 

[ZERGESS]

"Billions of light years" doesn't cap it at a few billion light years. Tens of billions is more exact but again there's no contradiction using former. That's just low end VSBW uses and not absolute. If there's reasons to believe it's universal in scope like being called a universe then those "bilions of light years" likely refer to the observable universe.

The thing is it matters, especially when considering the fact that other flag didn't reach a billion lightyears so it is very unlikely ngl

 

[ZERGESS]

Shaking something still scales you to it, if you shake a 2-A structure you are still 2-A, because significatly affecting something doesn't just mean destroying it

IIRC that's should be strictly speaking when it comes to range

 

[ZERGESS]

An infinite space being finite in comparison to something else makes it Low 1-C automatically, so considering the relationship between Primordial Chaos and the directly 2-A Chaos worlds, its Low 1-C bare minimum. It being Low 1-A isn't that unlikely, what is already here is enough for 1-A, seeing as Daos already transcend and are the source of Laws, which source Time and Space, with Supreme Daos transcending and founding those, making them 1-A

It isn't strange to contain an infinite within infinite, you should be talking about where a infinite is under finite, finite being higher D, however perhaps you're right there really is a way to make it low 1C it containing 2A structure

 

[ZERGESS]

It might be better to call staffs such as Ultima maybe goofytoddler in this kind of tier

 

[Rikimarox2]

Brother the burden of proof is on you and you really did give a proof brother where wang Chang attacked a world which only has Supreme realm at its highest with void shattering realm power but the thought of destroying the world didn't cross his mind and he just expected it to shake the entire world, this should be clear enough (though it might be possible if there is such a large gap nothing has been shown yet)

Which, mind you, is still enough for scaling, and even then, an argument could be made that he wasn't trying to destroy all of it (since he needed it for Wang Wei). Not to mention the plethora of statements mentioning how to destroy an entire world, you'd need to be above its highest point in cultivation, with characters even far below the highest point being capable of casually destroy majority of a world (see Wang Wei and his talk about GTW)

The thing is the observable universe here is at least 94billion lightyears yet some of those flag are just billions of light years away meaning it shouldn't exceed 10 billion lightyears cuz if it does it will be stated as tens of billions of lightyears

The thing is it matters, especially when considering the fact that other flag didn't reach a billion lightyears so it is very unlikely ngl

You are contradicting yourself, and even then, I've never seen someone so stringent on something that is so blatantly meant to be universal (and contains other shenanigans), at the very least, wow. Like brother, at this point if you genuinely think they aren't at least Universe-Sized, I don't think any amount of evidence bar "This world is 94 billion light years across", will actually convince you. But might as well;

They are called universes, many times, and are shown that the distance just between two flags are billions of light years away;

Spoiler

"
Using the map he created, he lay two formations. He secretly moved many of the spiritual mountains in this universe as the formation flag for the first formation. He saved a lot of resources with this method, but it took him some effort to move these things without alerting Heavenly Dao.

The first formation was a Heaven Sealing Array he learned from Wu Hong to prevent this world's Heavenly Dao from creating a Dao Ancestor once his incarnations start causing trouble. He even used a talisman with her power as the array's core.

The second formation was the Time Acceleration Formation he needed so his incarnations could have plenty of time to reach the Quasi-Emperor World. For this array, he had to refine Array Flags imbued with time energy and used a very rare Time Crystal as the formation's core.

Furthermore, he had to place it in specific and connected positions worldwide to create complex divine runes. And given the fact some of these flags were billions of light-years away from each other, it was not an easy task."

It's very clear that it is not just 2 flags or so, but many flags, and not to mention that these flags are just for the Time Acceleration Formation, let alone his other formation.

Like, I'm sorry but I'm just so amazed. A statement about being called a universe, it being larger and unfathomably harder to destroy than Middle Thousand Worlds, and just the fact that the distance between two flags alone was billions of light years away, and yet, you just immediately thought that it isn't, simply because they haven't given us a 100% precise estimation of the size of the universe, and straight ignored any statement about it being a universe, and any implications that it could be a universe, and went with the biggest lowball imaginable, which is assuming it is just a few billions of light years across.

Additionally;

"mtw are bigger than galaxy on average yet you're saying it contains 36 universe which is pretty obvious that those "5 universe no smaller than mortal universe" are referring to mortal worlds below stw"

No, brother, no it is not obvious, ngl. Let alone the fact that you are assuming Heavenly Abode Realm, which is the realm where this feat happens, is somehow the size of a normal MTW when it was clear that it wasn't, many times.
Heavenly Abode Realm was reaching the size of Heaven Will Worlds;

"Huh?" muttered Wang Chang with a slight surprise. After scanning with his Divine Sense, he could only acquire two pieces of information: one, this world is only a Middle Thousand World. Two, this world is larger than most Greater Thousand Worlds, even approaching Heaven Will Worlds in size.

So your statement just straight up doesn't work, and the fact that you were trying to say they are simply mortal worlds (which, I'm guessing you mean to say they are even smaller than STWs, lmao), just doesn't make any sense, given how the verse treated it as a bit special. Really, them being just mortal worlds is pure headcanon on your part, and just has no actual proof backing it up, since you assumed Heavenly Abode Realm is somehow just a normal MTW in terms of size.

I'll put you in disagreement for now, though majority of people seem to agree with everything in the blog for now.

 

[SweetDao]

Seems fair enough

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

The realm's ratings are fine.

The Primordial Chaos is better left as just Low 1-C.

Now, the Nothingness statement is quite weird. It’s obviously is 1-A, but it has grounds for 0. Mainly these statements:

In Taoism, Wuji symbolizes the unmanifest, the unknown, the undetectable, and the nonexistent. Meanwhile, Taji–the successor of Wuji–symbolizes the manifest or the physical.

[td width="0.5em"]„[/td]

[td]

~ Ch. 597​

[/td]​

Wuji, meaning without limits, without boundaries: boundless. A state of non-distinction, nothingness before the Tao–or the manifestation of everything came into being. 'The Laws of Wuji contained properties of nothingness. Its very definition of beings without limits, distinction, or boundaries can also apply to nothingness.

[td width="0.5em"]“[/td] [td width="0.5em"]„[/td]

[td]

~ Ch. 597​

[/td]​

[Return to the Void] He immediately used the ultimate ability of his flesh - returning everything to a state of nothingness, a state where there is no space, no time, no matter, no life, no chaos, no mind or spirit, no soul - it did not even contain the concept of existence or nonexistence.

[td width="0.5em"]„[/td]

[td]

~ Ch. 1009​

[/td]​

The Wuji statement in particular since it says that the Nothingness is without “distinction or boundaries.” Which it also contains nothing purely at all even existence and non-existence.

So there's no duality or plurality, there's no composition, there's no higher or lower, and there's nothing to it than true nothing. That easily qualifies for 0.

 

[Rikimarox2]

The realm's ratings are fine.

Very nice.

The Primordial Chaos is better left as just Low 1-C.

Any reason why it couldn't be higher? Considering it being the origin and whatnot, which would include the Daos/Concepts, iirc. I've been thinking of Low 1-C, likely Low 1-A, possibly 1-A, or whatever.

Now, the Nothingness statement is quite weird. It’s obviously is 1-A, but it has grounds for 0. Mainly these statements:

In Taoism, Wuji symbolizes the unmanifest, the unknown, the undetectable, and the nonexistent. Meanwhile, Taji–the successor of Wuji–symbolizes the manifest or the physical.

[td width="0.5em"]„[/td]

[td]
~ Ch. 597

[/td]​

Wuji, meaning without limits, without boundaries: boundless. A state of non-distinction, nothingness before the Tao–or the manifestation of everything came into being. 'The Laws of Wuji contained properties of nothingness. Its very definition of beings without limits, distinction, or boundaries can also apply to nothingness.

[td width="0.5em"]“[/td] [td width="0.5em"]„[/td]

[td]
~ Ch. 597

[/td]​

[Return to the Void] He immediately used the ultimate ability of his flesh - returning everything to a state of nothingness, a state where there is no space, no time, no matter, no life, no chaos, no mind or spirit, no soul - it did not even contain the concept of existence or nonexistence.

[td width="0.5em"]„[/td]

[td]
~ Ch. 1009

[/td]​

The Wuji statement in particular since it says that the Nothingness is without “distinction or boundaries.” Which it also contains nothing purely at all even existence and non-existence.

So there's no duality or plurality, there's no composition, there's no higher or lower, and there's nothing to it than true nothing. That easily qualifies for 0.

I'm pretty sure it cannot be tier 0, like, ever. Mainly because characters can turn Nothingness into, say, Primordial Chaos (Since nothingness gave birth to primordial chaos) via Grand Dao Source, or the fact that Characters can tap into its power and do stuff with it, among other things. Albeit... it is possible that all the applications of it aren't its true self, since there were statements about "True Nothingness" being something only those who have transcended reality could achieve, but eh.

Regardless, I think 1-A is possible, which would include Grand Dao shenanigans, and anyone who has something close to that. Though Tier 0, very, very unlikely. At least until the verse gives more clarification.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Any reason why it couldn't be higher? Considering it being the origin and whatnot, which would include the Daos/Concepts, iirc. I've been thinking of Low 1-C, likely Low 1-A, possibly 1-A, or whatever.

Is it the true source of space and time?

Regardless, I think 1-A is possible, which would include Grand Dao shenanigans, and anyone who has something close to that. Though Tier 0, very, very unlikely. At least until the verse gives more clarification.

Yeah, probably.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Is it the true source of space and time?

Wdym? Laws are type 2 concepts, Daos are type 1, and Supreme Daos are above them, and Grand Dao Sources (are considered the origin of all daos and suppress them all) is above that as well. For concept, Daos can exist even if the universe is destroyed.

Primordial Chaos gave birth to those Daos, iirc, and although the universe is currently in a River of Time (timeline), it's a bit complicated;
1. The timeline is reinforced by the Great/Grand Dao, which is a supreme being.
2. It is so reinforced that cultivators, who are supposed to be able to change the timeline however they want and see it as their backyard, were barely able to do anything in it, and if they want something, they gotta go to different timelines to get it.
3. The timeline in question is, iirc, conceptual, and things like "Dimensional Layering" didn't exist until later on in the verse (as in, an actual statement that the Supreme Being started implementing dimensional stuff for fun from another small world).

So idk. People said its Low 1-A/1-A, and I think it makes sense with the GDS and Daos, and stuff.

Yeah, probably.

Peak. Thanks!

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Wdym? Laws are type 2 concepts, Daos are type 1, and Supreme Daos are above them, and Grand Dao Sources (are considered the origin of all daos and suppress them all) is above that as well. For concept, Daos can exist even if the universe is destroyed.

Primordial Chaos gave birth to those Daos, iirc, and although the universe is currently in a River of Time (timeline), it's a bit complicated;
1. The timeline is reinforced by the Great/Grand Dao, which is a supreme being.
2. It is so reinforced that cultivators, who are supposed to be able to change the timeline however they want and see it as their backyard, were barely able to do anything in it, and if they want something, they gotta go to different timelines to get it.
3. The timeline in question is, iirc, conceptual, and things like "Dimensional Layering" didn't exist until later on in the verse (as in, an actual statement that the Supreme Being started implementing dimensional stuff for fun from another small world).

So idk. People said its Low 1-A/1-A, and I think it makes sense with the GDS and Daos, and stuff.

Can I just get a yes or no to the question? If it’s yes then it is 1-A:

As long as those type 1 concept of space and time is brought forth from it, it also exists outside the concepts, and it isn't composed of it.

If it has one of those three then it is Low 1-A, if it has all three then it’s 1-A.

 

[Rikimarox2]

As long as those type 1 concept of space and time is brought forth from it

Yes. It is the origin and one of the first things that comes from the Three, and everything comes forth from it, including Daos (and Grand Dao Sources, iirc, which are the origin of those Daos too).

it also exists outside the concepts, and it isn't composed of it.

Unclear for both, not much information, besides it being in the River of Time (which is conceptual, iirc), assimilating anything it comes in touch with to nothingness iirc, and exists when the universe is destroyed entirely. But that's about it, so assume No, I guess.

If it has one of those three then it is Low 1-A, if it has all three then it’s 1-A.

I'll take Low 1-A, ngl.