Jose Cruz vs Paige Martin: So it's the same type of Stand as Crying Girls...

[GreyFang82]

Paige Martin: 0 ()

Jose Cruz: 0 ()

Inconclusive: 0 ()

1. Speed is Equalized
2. All equipment up to 8-C is allowed
3. Bedlam City Chronicles (2nd Key) Paige Martin is being used
4. Starting distance is 10 meters
5. Location is Central Park
6. SBA for anything else

I hate that I somehow willed this match into existence for not reading, but it is what it is.

 

[DMUA]

Honestly this kinda feels like a rehash of Hono vs Paige, in a weird sense

Person that spews an absolute ton of heat putting him on the backfoot and likely chasing him around the city until they carve out an opportunity to deal a decisive blow

Though, much like Paige vs Hono, there are a few key advantages I can think of

First of all, speed equal rules mean that Lightning Bolts would be extremely effective if Paige can catch Jose off guard with them, since they're much higher in terms of attack speed than Paige himself and Jose's raw durability is 10-A, so if he can't catch the sight of the lightning bolt coming down from the sky, that's pretty much game set there

Paige also has a lot more lifting strength and general elemental control via magic, so another solid wincon Paige could probably pull out is just spawning a gust of wind to toss Jose into a building and pancake him that way

Granted turnabout is fair play, Jose does also have the ability to throw out lightning bolts, but that's with a physical projectile Paige can track and neutralize, and in an emergency, he could probably pour his magic power into his clothing for an impromptu barrier (on top of the fact Paige has way more ability by making himself fly with wind)

Either way it's absolutely kill or be killed, since either of them could theoretically be taken out with a single solid hit from their special abilities, but Paige has a lot more range and options to mitigate the ways that Jose could straight up kill him

 

[GreyFang82]

Honestly this kinda feels like a rehash of Hono vs Paige, in a weird sense

Person that spews an absolute ton of heat putting him on the backfoot and likely chasing him around the city until they carve out an opportunity to deal a decisive blow

Though, much like Paige vs Hono, there are a few key advantages I can think of

First of all, speed equal rules mean that Lightning Bolts would be extremely effective if Paige can catch Jose off guard with them, since they're much higher in terms of attack speed than Paige himself and Jose's raw durability is 10-A, so if he can't catch the sight of the lightning bolt coming down from the sky, that's pretty much game set there

Paige also has a lot more lifting strength and general elemental control via magic, so another solid wincon Paige could probably pull out is just spawning a gust of wind to toss Jose into a building and pancake him that way

Granted turnabout is fair play, Jose does also have the ability to throw out lightning bolts, but that's with a physical projectile Paige can track and neutralize, and in an emergency, he could probably pour his magic power into his clothing for an impromptu barrier (on top of the fact Paige has way more ability by making himself fly with wind)

Either way it's absolutely kill or be killed, since either of them could theoretically be taken out with a single solid hit from their special abilities, but Paige has a lot more range and options to mitigate the ways that Jose could straight up kill him

I heavily disagree here. The moment this match starts Paige is instantly pinned to the ground on a electromagnetic level down to his particles, he cannot see but is able to sense the general area of Crying Girls but this means nothing since having a general idea where something is and actually seeing them leaves with a lot of guess work.

I will have to make multiple posts to respond just give me a moment.

Edit: Actually it is smarter to just edit this post.

So, in character the first thing Jose does is lock his opponent down in his range, this is his most common opening. Upon doing this Paige is not doing anything without having to be contested by Crying Girls. If Paige attempts to create lighting to hit him, he can cause Paige's particles to have extremely negative charge making his Lightning bounce back to him instead. If tries to blast him back, Jose can staple himself to the ground via particle electromagnetism, or better yet just have his stand tank the hit.

Jose would see a few attacks from Paige and after realizing how similar their abilities are, he would try to reason with him to stop the fight but when that fails he would donut him or shut his brain off.

 

[DMUA]

I heavily disagree here. The moment this match starts Paige is instantly pinned to the ground on a electromagnetic level down to his particles, he cannot see but is able to sense the general area of Crying Girls but this means nothing since having a general idea where something is and actually seeing them leaves with a lot of guess work.

Nothing really stops Paige from just shoving himself back with wind even if that's how it opens, and he can output a lot more force in terms of LS

Paige is in fact able to perceive spirits and accurately detect all kinds of magic, so he is going to absolutely know where Crying Girls is (Even then, something like his ability to freeze or generate plasma produce very physically detectable effects, so)

 

[GreyFang82]

Nothing really stops Paige from just shoving himself back with wind even if that's how it opens, and he can output a lot more force in terms of LS

Paige is in fact able to perceive spirits and accurately detect all kinds of magic, so he is going to absolutely know where Crying Girls is (Even then, something like his ability to freeze or generate plasma produce very physically detectable effects, so)

Crying Girls should be able to tank the hit, even then his powers are just stronger so he should be able to use his powers to bind himself in place since it's working on an atomic level. And if you don't want to believe that, Jose and Crying Girls can just dodge it, wind is very noisy and violent and has a tell, Crying Girl's particle manipulation doesn't have a tell or travel distance, if you are in his range it will affect you.

Even if he can see it, it doesn't help him get out of his bound state which would basically paralyze him.

Edit: OH YOU MEAN He shoves himself (Paige) backward with his air?

If you mean Paige should be able to shove himself backward with his air, you are forgetting a few things. One, Paige doesn't know Jose has a range limit or what he will start off with so he will get hit by the bind. Two, the lifting strength of Crying Girls doesn't scale to it's magnetic abilities as it is full on hax not something dependent of physical strength. Three, if Paige does try this tactic, it will have the unfortunate side effect of literally ripping himself (namely his skin, muscles, and spine) apart.

 

[DMUA]

So, in character the first thing Jose does is lock his opponent down in his range, this is his most common opening. Upon doing this Paige is not doing anything without having to be contested by Crying Girls. If Paige attempts to create lighting to hit him, he can cause Paige's particles to have extremely negative charge making his Lightning bounce back to him instead. If tries to blast him back, Jose can staple himself to the ground via particle electromagnetism, or better yet just have his stand tank the hit.

He's not going to know that Paige is readying a lightning bolt, it happens way out of his range and forms in the cloud layer. It's a solid way to react if he does see it coming ahead of time, but as mentioned with Paige's ability to detect magic (and especially elemental stuff as is directly in his field), he's going to feel something off before that completely demolishes him (And that's assuming he's in range to be directly charged, rather than using the coin

Jose would see a few attacks from Paige and after realizing how similar their abilities are, he would try to reason with him to stop the fight but when that fails he would donut him or shut his brain off.

Shut his brain off

... I don't think that one's a tournament legal move, if he's really able to just cause brain death on a whim on whatever's in range. Tourney's low-mid hax, even a projectile BFR move got rejected, I don't think "I point and he dies" was something the tourneyrunner accounted for when he let Jose in. We might be able to continue the matchup on that note if he's not in character to instantly do this and outright stomp, but... yeah.

I will say the funnier thing is that if he's outright merciful like that, Paige would probably agree to just not have a fight (and Paige refusing to let him surrender regardless would have him be depowered by his Apostle even if he really for some reason wanted Jose's blood), but this is a versus thread so that's not really allowed

Crying Girls should be able to tank the hit, even then his powers are just stronger so he should be able to use his powers to bind himself in place since it's working on an atomic level. And if you don't want to believe that, Jose and Crying Girls can just dodge it, wind is very noisy and violent and has a tell, Crying Girl's particle manipulation doesn't have a tell or travel distance, if you are in his range it will affect you.

There's a difference between being able to tank the hit via durability and being able to no sell it's force, Lifting Strength and AP are divided for a reason. I don't doubt he can still mitigate a move like that via a few tricks he can use via his stand, but it's still something to be wary of (And Paige can just spawn gusts straight on whatever he wants to use it on, so it's not like Jose's going to have a whole windstorm being haphazardly thrown at him that he can easily react to)

If you mean Paige should be able to shove himself backward with his air, you are forgetting a few things. One, Paige doesn't know Jose has a range limit or what he will start off with so he will get hit by the bind. Two, the lifting strength of Crying Girls doesn't scale to it's magnetic abilities as it is full on hax not something dependent of physical strength.

His magical sensing will probably queue him in on it, and even if it doesn't, it's a natural instinct to want to retreat if you're almost instantly incapacitated (or alternatively as I've already mentioned, he should be able to just shove Jose for a good distance and get his bearings back that way)

If it's just a hax ability and doesn't strictly scale to their stats, it's something Paige is more than equipped to neutralize with his own abilities (or just directly overpower since I don't think turning someone into a magnet would actually go into the Class K/8-C range regardless), so either interpretation is going to be something he can handle just fine.

 

[GreyFang82]

He's not going to know that Paige is readying a lightning bolt, it happens way out of his range and forms in the cloud layer. It's a solid way to react if he does see it coming ahead of time, but as mentioned with Paige's ability to detect magic (and especially elemental stuff as is directly in his field), he's going to feel something off before that completely demolishes him (And that's assuming he's in range to be directly charged, rather than using the coin

He would actually since if the lightning bolt is aiming toward Jose or Crying Girls the nearby particles would be notably negatively charged, he would simply nullify the charge and negate the lighting bolt.

I don't think that one's a tournament legal move, if he's really able to just cause brain death on a whim on whatever's in range. Tourney's low-mid hax, even a projectile BFR move got rejected, I don't think "I point and he dies" was something the tourney runner accounted for when he let Jose in. We might be able to continue the matchup on that note if he's not in character to instantly do this and outright stomp, but... yeah.

It's true, he VERY RARELY does this move. He's only canonically done it to two foes he was fighting, which where the main bosses of his verse. But that's not what caused him to kill them, what made him kill them is when he has a moment to speak with a person or tries to reason with and fail to convert them, he will pull it out reluctantly. Basically, he only uses this ability if he already has won the fight.

There's a difference between being able to tank the hit via durability and being able to no sell it's force, Lifting Strength and AP are divided for a reason. I don't doubt he can still mitigate a move like that via a few tricks he can use via his stand, but it's still something to be wary of (And Paige can just spawn gusts straight on whatever he wants to use it on, so it's not like Jose's going to have a whole windstorm being haphazardly thrown at him that he can easily react to)

I see what you mean, but I'm talking about his hax. His ability to manipulate the electromagnatic charge of particles is something that doesn't scale to lifting in the verse. Jose can give himself flight or nail himself in place with his hax, this is done in his fight against a literal person who throws hurricanes at people (Miss Pandora) and his stand, despite being dwarfed by the power of a hurricane, help him still from getting swept up.

His magical sensing will probably queue him in on it, and even if it doesn't, it's a natural instinct to want to retreat if you're almost instantly incapacitated (or alternatively as I've already mentioned, he should be able to just shove Jose for a good distance and get his bearings back that way)

If it's just a hax ability and doesn't strictly scale to their stats, it's something Paige is more than equipped to neutralize with his own abilities (or just directly overpower since I don't think turning someone into a magnet would actually go into the Class K/8-C range regardless), so either interpretation is going to be something he can handle just fine.

turning someone into a magnet would actually go into the Class K/8-C range regardless

I mean, you would have to calculate the energy needed to turn every atom of a person into a negative charge comparable to a super conductive magnet and every atom on the ground they make contact with into an equally positively charged object. As for negating it, it's possible.

Let's say that they separate, I don't see this fight turns into a clear win for Paige when Jose can fly after him, and we can talk about a fight from there.

 

[DMUA]

He would actually since if the lightning bolt is aiming toward Jose or Crying Girls the nearby particles would be notably negatively charged, he would simply nullify the charge and negate the lighting bolt.

That one does track at least, so even the idea of tossing a lightning bolt could turn into a clutch tossup depending on when and where the electric charge is thrown around at any given point

I see what you mean, but I'm talking about his hax. His ability to manipulate the electromagnatic charge of particles is something that doesn't scale to lifting in the verse. Jose can give himself flight or nail himself in place with his hax, this is done in his fight against a literal person who throws hurricanes at people (Miss Pandora) and his stand, despite being dwarfed by the power of a hurricane, help him still from getting swept up.

Hurricanes in general are vastly powerful, yeah, but it's not like the entirety of it's wind pressure could slam into him at once. It does remind me of an old calc I did that got Class 10 for something like that, but that's probably not a strictly accurate assumption, given it's less "the force of a hurricane applied to someone's body" and more "assuming the kid accelerated to hurricane force winds in a brief timeframe and Roland caught him out of the air", but I really don't entirely know how to calculate how much force a hurricane applies to someone's body directly, I just figure it's a little bit lower than that

I mean, you would have to calculate the energy needed to turn every atom of a person into a negative charge comparable to a super conductive magnet and every atom on the ground they make contact with into an equally positively charged object. As for negating it, it's possible.

And if I dunno how to accurately calculate how to endure the force of a hurricane, I absolutely do not know how to calculate this, so I'll just run with the "he uses his magic to negate the charge and bails/knocks the guy at least somewhat back and mobilizes backwards" (since the conditions of the fight put him exactly at the edge of Jose's range)

Let's say that they separate, I don't see this fight turns into a clear win for Paige when Jose can fly after him, and we can talk about a fight from there.

It's definitely not a clear win, things are absolutely kill or be killed with their respective lacks of superhuman durability, I'm just saying that range and mobility via wind gusts gives Paige a bit more room to work with, and his mobility is a bit better since he can fly wherever he wants with wind, where Jose has to launch himself via magnetism (and since it's based on electric charges, Paige could pretty easily sweep the rug out from under them by just disabling it at a critical moment, which could leave him open to being windblasted into a wall)

 

[GreyFang82]

It's definitely not a clear win, things are absolutely kill or be killed with their respective lacks of superhuman durability, I'm just saying that range and mobility via wind gusts gives Paige a bit more room to work with, and his mobility is a bit better since he can fly wherever he wants with wind, where Jose has to launch himself via magnetism (and since it's based on electric charges, Paige could pretty easily sweep the rug out from under them by just disabling it at a critical moment, which could leave him open to being windblasted into a wall)

This is fair, but just like Jotaro and DIO he can break his fall and propel himself with his stand, so even if he loses his flight and would get windblasted into a wall it wouldn't kill him since he can block the fall with his stand or just shift his momentum by kicking off the wall and such. If anything the more he uses his wind abilities, the more likely Jose will find a way to use that ability to give him momentum and catch up to Paige.

I personally think neither one is gonna win with their main abilities, even if Paige can out range him, Jose can nullify all his attacks and protect himself from harm. I feel like this is a moment where Jose will try to talk-no-jutsu Paige to end the fight before they both die, and if he refuses to respond or surrender, Jose will active bloodlusted mode and use his hax to try and insta-kill him.

At this point it's an a run away game where Jose can catch him within his range, using Paige's only viable ability (air) against him and end the fight, or inconclusive in Jose's favor since nether one can defeat the other while Jose has a wincon. That's my opinion.

 

[DMUA]

This is fair, but just like Jotaro and DIO he can break his fall and propel himself with his stand, so even if he loses his flight and would get windblasted into a wall it wouldn't kill him since he can block the fall with his stand or just shift his momentum by kicking off the wall and such. If anything the more he uses his wind abilities, the more likely Jose will find a way to use that ability to give him momentum and catch up to Paige.

You know I actually don't remember if they're capable of really breaking their fall that way. I guess it's not really shown that physical force travels through stands and really fails to cushion their force, so it's at least a bit possible even without superhuman dura, but it's still something that's going to force their stand into a specific position and with Paige's general situational awareness he could very well observe that and chain it into an attack that it wouldn't be capable of blocking, like charging a lightning bolt in the sky and then using negative charge to mark him just as he's preventing himself from being pancaked, or turning the rubble they create with the kick into projectiles launched straight for them, stuff like that.

I personally think neither one is gonna win with their main abilities, even if Paige can out range him, Jose can nullify all his attacks and protect himself from harm. I feel like this is a moment where Jose will try to talk-no-jutsu Paige to end the fight before they both die, and if he refuses to respond or surrender, Jose will active bloodlusted mode and use his hax to try and insta-kill him.

Can nullify, but it's going to be a genuine fight, and Paige does have immediate startup on his moves to trip the guy up. He can't quite do Jose's thing of just shutting off someone's brain, but he does have the ability to at least somewhat go internal on his attacks, provided there's a hole for him to operate with like the time he flash froze Hono's mouth to disorient her, he could probably also do the same with fire to cripple his breathing, though he obviously can't make that an instant kill when Jose can just as easily shut it off, just a good way to wear him down and get an edge that way

At this point it's an a run away game where Jose can catch him within his range, using Paige's only viable ability (air) against him and end the fight, or inconclusive in Jose's favor since nether one can defeat the other while Jose has a wincon. That's my opinion.

Yeah it's a lot wilder to imagine the emotions of the participants as they have no idea how far they are from straight up dying to the other's capabilities than actively discuss it, though Paige definitely has his fair share of edges to pull out a win. Probably could even just play the stamina game coupled with spawning fire to damage Jose's throat and waiting for him to wear himself out as he just zooms away for awhile

 

[GreyFang82]

You know I actually don't remember if they're capable of really breaking their fall that way. I guess it's not really shown that physical force travels through stands and really fails to cushion their force, so it's at least a bit possible even without superhuman dura, but it's still something that's going to force their stand into a specific position and with Paige's general situational awareness he could very well observe that and chain it into an attack that it wouldn't be capable of blocking, like charging a lightning bolt in the sky and then using negative charge to mark him just as he's preventing himself from being pancaked, or turning the rubble they create with the kick into projectiles launched straight for them, stuff like that.

Can nullify, but it's going to be a genuine fight, and Paige does have immediate startup on his moves to trip the guy up. He can't quite do Jose's thing of just shutting off someone's brain, but he does have the ability to at least somewhat go internal on his attacks, provided there's a hole for him to operate with like the time he flash froze Hono's mouth to disorient her, he could probably also do the same with fire to cripple his breathing, though he obviously can't make that an instant kill when Jose can just as easily shut it off, just a good way to wear him down and get an edge that way

Yeah it's a lot wilder to imagine the emotions of the participants as they have no idea how far they are from straight up dying to the other's capabilities than actively discuss it, though Paige definitely has his fair share of edges to pull out a win. Probably could even just play the stamina game coupled with spawning fire to damage Jose's throat and waiting for him to wear himself out as he just zooms away for awhile

So, if the stand doesn’t nullify Jose’s fall damage then I will have to upgrade his durability since he does actually do thos.

who said Jose has a startup lag? He is able to instantly magnetize a person, not sure why his other abilities would be different.

Crying Girls like other stands can autonomously defend their users similar to Jotaro’s Star Platinum. This is the case since Crying Girls passively negates mind altering abilities from affecting him (he controls his own brain’s electrical signals) while Summoned. In this case anything relating to particle changes within 10 meters of Jose and Crying Girls will be noticed and dealt with.

Jose’s greatest Stamina feat is staying concentrated on his stand abilities for 168 hours straight when he was captured by Father Mathew. He used his ability to keep his body upright through constant electromechanical particle manipulation of his body so he wouldn’t kneel despite having basically fragmented bone soup for legs, because if he did kneel Mathew’s stand: King of Kings would have full control over his fate.

Edit: Realistically, a fight of this caliber is far more draining that just holding himself up, staying awake, and enduring pain.

I would say he could fight for a full day or two straight using his abilities while fighting for his life in active combat.

I would certainly call this fight as draining and taxing as Miss Pandoa’s arc.

 

[DMUA]

So, if the stand doesn’t nullify Jose’s fall damage then I will have to upgrade his durability since he does actually do thos.

I was kinda just throwing out hypotheticals, going off the actual series I don't think it's really displayed that recoil travels through stands (especially with the "only stands can harm stands" rule that sorta suggests they don't respond to physical force correctly, which is... another thing that Paige also has, they really are the same type of stand as Crying Girls)

who said Jose has a startup lag? He is able to instantly magnetize a person, not sure why his other abilities would be different.

I'm more referring to the fact that Paige can easily throw out an attack and get a hit if they aren't immediately prepared to respond, and with the range gap he can really capitalize on that to chip out whatever he can on Jose

Crying Girls like other stands can autonomously defend their users similar to Jotaro’s Star Platinum. This is the case since Crying Girls passively negates mind altering abilities from affecting him (he controls his own brain’s electrical signals) while Summoned. In this case anything relating to particle changes within 10 meters of Jose and Crying Girls will be noticed and dealt with.

I guess that interferes with mixing up Jose himself and disorienting them with mouth freezing, but it still doesn't really let the guy defend himself in two places simultaneously, which is the primary way Paige is going to get a solid blow outside of outlasting

Jose’s greatest Stamina feat is staying concentrated on his stand abilities for 168 hours straight when he was captured by Father Mathew. He used his ability to keep his body upright through constant electromechanical particle manipulation of his body so he wouldn’t kneel despite having basically fragmented bone soup for legs, because if he did kneel Mathew’s stand: King of Kings would have full control over his fate.

That's good in terms of him being unable to put off the need for sleep and his mental fortitude, but it's not quite the same thing as actively fighting and putting energy into trying to get an edge on an opponent, meanwhile Paige is more than capable of running for an hour straight without rest and doesn't need to sleep unless he totally burns through his reserves

 

[GreyFang82]

That's good in terms of him being unable to put off the need for sleep and his mental fortitude, but it's not quite the same thing as actively fighting and putting energy into trying to get an edge on an opponent, meanwhile Paige is more than capable of running for an hour straight without rest and doesn't need to sleep unless he totally burns through his reserves

I kinda Ninja'd you there, if you look at the previous comment you can see I do mention a stamina feat that is directly about using his abilities to fight while actively trying to protect himself, others, and thinking to defeat a foe.

I'm more referring to the fact that Paige can easily throw out an attack and get a hit if they aren't immediately prepared to respond, and with the range gap he can really capitalize on that to chip out whatever he can on Jose; I guess that interferes with mixing up Jose himself and disorienting them with mouth freezing, but it still doesn't really let the guy defend himself in two places simultaneously, which is the primary way Paige is going to get a solid blow outside of outlasting

Jose directly fights one of his allies and their stand "Deep Purple" which specializes in controlling the state of matter of water. It's shown by their clash that when one of them attempts actively use their ability to harm the other, it is automatically nullified so long as they are in range of each other and have their stands active; Jose tried to freeze "Deep Purple's" Stand User while the stand user tried to freeze Jose's blood, nothing happened as both their stands cancelled out their effects without the users realizing this.

Basically think of it like this. Crying Girls will automatically without input or thought, so long as it is summoned, nullify attempts to manipulate matter within it's range. This is without conscious thought or effort; this is exactly the same as when Crying Girls automatically nullifies Jose's brain chemistry from getting haxed by stands such as "Secret" and having their heart be stopped or be forced to off themselves by "I Can't Decide".

Jose has to actively think and concentrate if he's actively inciting change in order to attack an opponent. Plasma bombs, lighting, temperature manipulation require this focus, but keeping his surroundings in a neutral state is basically free for him. Additionally Jose can only manifest 2 abilities at the same time, if the goes for 3 he can manage it but at a poorer quality, if he tries more than that it will fail since it require too much focus and be split too thin.

 

[DMUA]

At some point it feels less like a versus thread and more like a Yu-Gi-Oh match, with the sheer "I am running out of things I can possibly do here" but now that I've typed that out it does occur to me he is just negating all temperature and electric based spells...

In terms of active casting, Paige could at least mess with that, given he could do stuff like pool the heat from Hono's flames into a specific area he wanted to turn completely molten when he realized trying to outright overpower her wasn't going to work out unless he wanted to go lethal and just abruptly end things. Given the automatic defenses, I don't think he'd really be able to pull off just blasting the guy with the heat of his own plasma (outside of using the wind to manually shove that into their face, but automation moment), but it's something he can do

The last thing I have to note is that I probably underestimated how much Paige upscales from his original Bedlam City rendition, but that'll take a bit of explaining

So, there's a stat system from F to S, where Paige had an S in magic in Bedlam's original run. The thing with Bedlam's stat system is that the gaps between even numbers one rank apart was purposefully pretty huge, so those at F would be utterly horrendous (in it's words, F durability renders someone's bones weaker than crackhead teeth) while those on S would be incredibly powerful (with S durability being mildly dazed from their entire house exploding on top of them)

Even something like A to S is pretty notable, with something like strength going from "you can make a hobby out of shotputting cars" to "you can pick up the house of your enemy and throw it"

That said, there was an XP system in chronicles to advance your stats, where each one was 10 points apart. And wouldn't you know it, by the premature end of the run, Paige had a S+10 in terms of magic (which I vividly remember initially having as SS, but that's not a thing in the system so)

Then, on top of that, there are the Nakosia stat boosts from injury, which would let Paige get even stronger. Surface level burns from being glanced by Hono's flames boosted him up by 3, for instance, and that applies to his magic as well as his speed and willpower, so if he purposefully hurt himself he could get a much needed edge in how fast he could toss around Jose, which would certainly give plenty of room for tossing them into a wall or tripping them up by combing that into a barrage of concrete, stuff like that

Now, if that gets past the AP gap to really decisively give Paige an ability to overcome them, I don't entirely know, but I think it's better to throw out the info sooner rather than later tourneywise and it's about the last thing I can bring up given how stacked against him the arsenal is here

 

[GreyFang82]

At some point it feels less like a versus thread and more like a Yu-Gi-Oh match, with the sheer "I am running out of things I can possibly do here" but now that I've typed that out it does occur to me he is just negating all temperature and electric based spells...

In terms of active casting, Paige could at least mess with that, given he could do stuff like pool the heat from Hono's flames into a specific area he wanted to turn completely molten when he realized trying to outright overpower her wasn't going to work out unless he wanted to go lethal and just abruptly end things. Given the automatic defenses, I don't think he'd really be able to pull off just blasting the guy with the heat of his own plasma (outside of using the wind to manually shove that into their face, but automation moment), but it's something he can do

The last thing I have to note is that I probably underestimated how much Paige upscales from his original Bedlam City rendition, but that'll take a bit of explaining

So, there's a stat system from F to S, where Paige had an S in magic in Bedlam's original run. The thing with Bedlam's stat system is that the gaps between even numbers one rank apart was purposefully pretty huge, so those at F would be utterly horrendous (in it's words, F durability renders someone's bones weaker than crackhead teeth) while those on S would be incredibly powerful (with S durability being mildly dazed from their entire house exploding on top of them)

Even something like A to S is pretty notable, with something like strength going from "you can make a hobby out of shotputting cars" to "you can pick up the house of your enemy and throw it"

That said, there was an XP system in chronicles to advance your stats, where each one was 10 points apart. And wouldn't you know it, by the premature end of the run, Paige had a S+10 in terms of magic

Then, on top of that, there are the Nakosia stat boosts from injury, which would let Paige get even stronger. Surface level burns from being glanced by Hono's flames boosted him up by 3, for instance, and that applies to his magic as well as his speed and willpower, so if he purposefully hurt himself he could get a much needed edge in how fast he could toss around Jose, which would certainly give plenty of room for tossing them into a wall or tripping them up by combing that into a barrage of concrete, stuff like that

Now, if that gets past the AP gap to really decisively give Paige an ability to overcome them, I don't entirely know, but I think it's better to throw out the info sooner rather than later tourneywise and it's about the last thing I can bring up given how stacked against him the arsenal is here

Understandable, as you know I haven’t been able to edit the profile in a while, and most of these abilities of his aren’t ones most people have to contest on similar abilities.

it might be best to forget this match as Jose’s profile will be updated tomorrow (hopefully) and it won’t be as confusing of a topic, it does look more and more like a stomp compared to his other matches.

when he fought Funny Valentine and Giorno none of their abilities were the same as his so they could at least contest them with their own. With automatic actions from Crying Girls it shuts off the vast majority of Paige’s options.

This certainly looks like a mismatch the more I explain the new developments of him and the story.